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Replies to this Thread: 97

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Profile for Cancer
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World Visitor Map
Posted: 01:13:30 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5844

Ever wonder where your fellow VR members were from? Find out here:

http://www.vampirerave.com/vr_ip_map.php

Zoom in, zoom out, drag the map around.

You're the blue star.


[ JUMP TO NEW REPLIES ]




Profile for OATHBREAKER
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World Visitor Map
Posted: 01:46:06 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5816

Is there a way to opt out of providing even this anonymous data for display?




Profile for Cancer
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Posted: 01:57:13 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5807

No.

There's no way for users to figure out which star belongs to whom.




Profile for MissKitteh
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Posted: 02:13:48 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5790

Is there any way to update it? I went to look for myself and the blue star is 4 states to the west of where I am.




Profile for Glitch
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Posted: 02:18:08 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5781

think it is an invasion of privacy personally.




Profile for vampyrebeast
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Posted: 02:19:26 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5776

Im the only NM person? o.0




Profile for MooniePie
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Posted: 02:21:34 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5773

How can it be an invasion of Privacy if it doesn't show who lives where?

It'd be an invasion of Privacy if by the stars listed who lived where. Unless people have something to hide, I don't see what the big deal is.




Profile for Cancer
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Posted: 02:32:26 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5759

Before this gets out of hand, I want to clear up a few misconceptions:

These stars do not appear on your house. If you took the time and zoomed in on your blue star, and switched the display to street view, you'd see that.

Location data is buggy at best. It's generally accurate at the city level, but that's it. In some cases it is accurate only at the country level. Right now there are about a dozen UK members online, who are all showing up as London, England (but they live in vastly different parts of the UK).

A member has already posted that her star is a "few states off". Nothing can be done about this. It's just the inaccurate nature of IP/Location data.

Despite what you may have seen in TV or movies, you cannot take an Internet IP address and convert it to a street address.

The display of this ANONYMOUS data on this new page is fully within the privacy policy of VampireRave.com. If you disagree with Vampire Rave's privacy policy or terms of service, do not use this website.




Profile for Glitch
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World Visitor Map
Posted: 02:34:04 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5756

as the person after me said if you are the only person in a certain area and people know roughly which county they live .... hey presto .... see my motorbike in my back yard .... not impressed has Cancer checked the legal ramifications of this ?




Profile for xRobin3x
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Posted: 02:41:44 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5746

I am figureing out that perhaps to where the 'star' shows up is where ones internet is dealt with. me, it shows up in a town where i do my internet with.




Profile for hellsreaper
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Posted: 02:42:43 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5743

Daywalker you just need to calm down. like cancer said if you dont like the way we runs the website leave, no one is forcing you to be apart of this site




Profile for zenraven
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World Visitor Map
Posted: 02:43:56 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5738

I think this is awesome there are a lot of people on and everywhere. Nice new feature. On the zoom in you can't see street addresses or anything I'm seeing my blue star a few miles off but it gives you the guess of where I am. I figure if anyone has a prob with it they could always delete there account. Ya it's ip address only not your real address. I say this is a nice feature and I love to see where others are on here .




Profile for xRobin3x
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Posted: 02:46:26 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5734

mess with the map (its in the right upper corner) some wording. you can set it for street names




Profile for Cancer
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Posted: 02:46:55 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5733

Last time I'm going to say it, the World Visitor Map does not show where you live. I will not show "your motorbike in your back yard".

It shows your region. IF you've shared your region with others, and you're the only one online in that region, then yes, someone could deduce a particular star belongs to you.

However, that star is not on your house. It's in your region. So the only thing other VR members know, is what YOU HAVE TOLD THEM.




Profile for Cancer
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Posted: 02:51:51 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5726

Robin has actually hit it on the head.

Location data is for who owns the IP address you are currently using. It's public data, if you know where to look.

I can't post your location. I can only post the location of the owner of the IP address you're using. This may be within a mile of your house. It may be within 500 miles of your house.

How accurate this location data is depends on the owner of the IP address, and what they have chosen to publish.




Profile for Cancer
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World Visitor Map
Posted: 02:57:37 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5722

One other thing.

One star on a map does not equal one website visitor. In some cases, when there are multiple visitors using the same ISP, stars will stack directly on top of one another.

So one star on top of Austin, Texas could actually represent 3 website visitors.




Profile for sPerAnZa
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World Visitor Map
Posted: 03:41:53 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5709

I thinks its awesome to see people all over the world on VR, myself. Hearing where people say they're from and actually seeing it on a map just make it so real. :)

And Daywalker, if you're so insulted that people can see your motorbike, you and GoogleMaps need to have a quick email conversation. Also Yahoo Maps and god knows what else it out there.
Also, the people that drive by your house must be invading your privacy. They don't know you, but they are seeing your house.

Don't make a mountain from a grain of sand.




Profile for Cancer
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Posted: 03:45:47 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5705

Ugg... There is no motorbike to see.




Profile for Indulgence
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World Visitor Map
Posted: 03:47:20 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5704

I like it. I can take a little trip around the world right from my house! I like seeing other places, and this is a nice addition to the site. Thank you Cancer.




Profile for sPerAnZa
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Posted: 03:48:41 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5701

People CAN see (or could once upon a time, at least) a crooked VR banner.
What ever happened to that, by the way?




Profile for sPerAnZa
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Posted: 03:54:52 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5693

Never got my VR mug either. :P




Profile for xRobin3x
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Posted: 03:57:17 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5692

I saw.... If ya know where to look LOL a van in my yard..... and its day time lol two things it isn't at the moment of this posting LOL nice thou it was the RIGHT van in the yard thou LOL




Profile for Elizabeth18
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Posted: 04:10:17 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5683

I think this is awesome, not really an invsion of privacy when its off by 2 states lol but is still cool to see a "roundabout" location of where everyone is from.




Profile for Cancer
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Posted: 04:14:17 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5678

Of course if you drag the map to YOUR house and zoom in you're going to see YOUR house.

But what does that have to do with the blue star?




Profile for PresumptuouslyPretty
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Posted: 04:24:13 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5673

I love this new feature. It's public information displayed, and in a cool way. Its fun to play with and interesting too.




Profile for WickedWitch
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Posted: 04:37:48 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5662

lol..I love it! Very cool Cancer :)

And peeps, chill out. It's NOT an invasion of privacy. *rollseyes*




Profile for Morrigon
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Posted: 04:41:10 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5660

OMGZ I forgot to close the blinds!!!!




Profile for ThisKittenHasClaws
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Posted: 04:43:46 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5657

i like it too! im out og my home city right now and its cool to see.




Profile for xRobin3x
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Posted: 04:49:26 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5653

Cancers question.... But what does that have to do with the blue star? the star for me is located at the building where i have the internet connection with. Like if if some one was on dial up.... some have people pc. who knows where they are located at. lol But the blue star will be there with the people pc office and not at YOUR house. As an example lol

and you guys crack me up lol




Profile for Requiem
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Posted: 04:53:28 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5651

This is very, very neat. :)

I dig it!

(Nice bike, by the way - interesting flame details on the sidecar. :P)




Profile for JustinV
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Posted: 05:30:31 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5624

Pretty nifty!

And for those that stressed out about satellites homing in on them while they're doing all manner of ungodly acts, just google 'anonymizer' and stock up on tin foil hats.




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Posted: 05:34:09 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5618

LOL! It puts me in the parking lot of the Bi-Lo Center in Greenville.




Profile for xRobin3x
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Posted: 05:40:54 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5611

What is the max number of tin hats can one person order??? :D Can one order body suits too??? Need no poking in those alien abductions cases. lol




Profile for BlackRoseKnight
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Posted: 05:47:19 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5608

The new feature is a pleasant diversion, and the security issue doesn't bother me, as it thinks I'm half a state away from where I actually am.




Profile for PsiGoddesS
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Posted: 06:29:31 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5588

I have a few in my state. That's awesome :D




Profile for moonkissed
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Posted: 06:49:05 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5574

GoogleEarth is more intrusive than this is.




Profile for DireConsequences
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Posted: 06:51:00 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5573

Haha! Robin, I have dial up and it has me up by the Great Lakes. I live completely away from those things. O_O It's nutty to think it's an invasion of privacy but some of the maps can be really accurate. This one definitely isn't with what people are posting.

If I have a problem with it in the future, I'll save the stuff that I have on my account and I'll delete. It's simple. That's with any update though.

But yes, if I move the map cleeeaaarrr to my place of residence, I can see the property and my car. I can see many of the unique details. But since I have access numbers, there's no sense me worrying about it. Heh, Took a bit for me to get the map there for myself since I am on dial up speeds. Haha!




Profile for MissKitteh
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Posted: 06:51:50 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5571

Hey its cool with me. I don't see a problem with this new feature at all. Still love that fact that the blue star is way off for me. ^_^ I don't mind though. Nice work Cancer. Another cool new feature! Bravo Sir!




Profile for TheSeriousMoonlight
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Posted: 07:18:45 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5558

My star is about 10 miles away from where I actually live. Probably less.




Profile for immortalxkiss
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Posted: 07:22:56 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5555

I actually love the new feature. It's interesting to be able to see where VR members are in the world. Of course, it is not accurate by any means, it's got me a good 50 or so miles from where I actually live, but it's all good. At least I'm the same state.

All this nonsense about it invading your privacy is just silly. We can't see right where you live, we can't look into your windows while you're sleeping, so what's the big deal? It's a fun little feature that most will forget about soon enough, so stop your complaining already. :]




Profile for Sulks
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Posted: 08:44:33 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5518

LOL! Cool feature even if my star is around 500 miles out. I'm apparantly now living somewhere in England. :P





Profile for Jynx
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Posted: 09:05:50 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5511

invasion of privacy? i dont see anyones name, address, phone number on that map? :D and someone does find my dot... its not gonna bother me... ill happily say.. i live in wolverhampton.. not the little island my star is on next to the uk hehe :D

i think its a great idea its great to see vr is used all over :D





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Posted: 09:25:04 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5499

When I first saw the post about it, I was like Oh crap.. But aftr reading through this thread it makes sense. It's scary how accurate it is in certain aspects. Like it was said above, the map tracks the IP. For example, my IP provider is Cellular One in Pinevile LA. I live at least 50 miles away to the south. So, they can't get my info even if they did a WhoIs search. XD




Profile for xxEmaeraldxx
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Posted: 10:42:30 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5483

I forgot to tell you guys, that I have a holiday home in the Isle of Man (apparently) heh.




Profile for Anann
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Posted: 10:58:53 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5479

Pity, there isn't any keys though! Makes me wonder though why it zooms in on a private house instead of BT headquarters when btinternet is the largest ISP in the UK! Neat feature, it shows how international Vampire Rave has become :)




Profile for GhostGirl
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Posted: 10:59:31 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5478

Lmao I don't even recognize the area where it has my star... XD though it's definitely in the right general vicinity. This is cool, though I wish it was more accurate, at least down to the right state... XD

Man all these people worrying about privacy... insane!




Profile for DevineRapture
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Posted: 11:57:42 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5457

love this new feature im sure this will bring more members to vr as well :)




Profile for CyanideSoulja
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Posted: 12:40:49 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5448

wait wait hold on people still use dial up sheesh you cavemen need to get with the program :P




Profile for xRobin3x
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Posted: 12:46:36 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5443

LOL I never said I used dial up....lol I used it as an example lol and i know some people still do LOL

And it does (barely) get you to here just the same lol




Profile for imagesinwords
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Posted: 12:57:40 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5437

I am located in a construction site sandlot in New Orleans East, several miles from the westbank's Algiers Point neighborhood on the riverbank I thought I lived on. I think I'm siphoning internet from a nearby McDonald's... but I really didn't want this to get out. My aura of mystery and mystical power is gone. Gee thanks. *kicks dirt, 'cause I got a lot of it*

Photobucket




Profile for AngelSpit
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Posted: 13:14:23 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5432

Love what you've done with the place, Images. ;P

My star puts me in a path in a park, in another state.
It's funny though. It'll prove much entertainment.




Profile for trepidation
trepidation
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Posted: 13:47:56 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5423

But Cancer i want to see my motobike in my back yard :( even though i dont have a motobike or a back yard. why cancer why.
Just joshing, cool new little thing you have going there.




Profile for SENTINEL
SENTINEL
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Posted: 15:17:00 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5391

Duct tapes trepidation to the nearest motor bike shop....

here now ya got a lot full of bikes.

Good Luck.

>:D




Profile for Requiem
Requiem
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Posted: 16:29:20 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5359

I move a lot. >.>

Yesterday I lived on 6th street in Austin, and today - I live near a McMansion on Retama Golf course. :D

Woot! I got an upgrade!

This is a lot of fun. :) I wonder where I will live tomorrow?

(PS - Today I live in the water hazard. Near the McMansion. heh.)




Profile for TheGenie
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Posted: 20:17:47 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5303

The new map is cool, I am getting a big kick out of my blue star being several states and half an ocean away from where I really am, LOL




Profile for xRobin3x
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Posted: 21:26:02 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5256

just rechecked the map.... lol the pic it shows my house, i swear is like over 2 years old now lol its a kick lol




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Posted: 21:28:09 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5251

It got me pegged close enough.. only 45 minutes from my house in Paducah rather than Princeton. I even know the street it put me on. :)




Profile for SammanthaWolf
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Posted: 21:47:11 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5238

i like it but my star is like far far off.......




Profile for imagesinwords
imagesinwords
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Posted: 21:55:14 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5235

Yeah, you should probably read this thread to understand why.




Profile for CyanideSoulja
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Posted: 22:44:20 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5218

-pokes images- you know i think i know where your lot of dirt is :P -stalks-




Profile for PandorasBx
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Posted: 22:54:17 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5214

Hehe, it shows me living in a whole other city than where I am, and apparently I am a college student living in the dorms(thank God those days are over). I've noticed my IP comes from this particular city sometimes. The cool thing is that I get to roam the streets and check it out :)




Profile for Taintedsub
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Posted: 23:09:45 - Feb 05 2012
Times viewed: 5203

Very cool! :)




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Posted: 00:28:39 - Feb 06 2012
Times viewed: 5179

has me living in Ottawa and that is almost 20 hours away from where I actually live

great feature Cancer even though some do not like it




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Posted: 00:54:00 - Feb 06 2012
Times viewed: 5170

I think it's great ,nice to see where every bodies from. Hey if you go to Tavares fl. And see someone flipping you the bird that will be me HA HA HA!




Profile for SammanthaWolf
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Posted: 01:08:15 - Feb 06 2012
Times viewed: 5161

Hey everyone I live in a tree!!!!!!!!




Profile for Tristesse
Tristesse
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Posted: 02:29:21 - Feb 06 2012
Times viewed: 5143

Too bad there is no picture for where I am at. :( But this is an awesome thing. I get to view others' pictures! Thanks, Cancer!




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Posted: 03:41:22 - Feb 06 2012
Times viewed: 5123

That's awesome. There are a lot of little stars on that map. =)




Profile for SammanthaWolf
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Posted: 04:05:58 - Feb 06 2012
Times viewed: 5116

I know my house looks like a party!!




Profile for BillytheJust
BillytheJust
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Posted: 04:11:00 - Feb 06 2012
Times viewed: 5114

We had a House Lunazure Members Page for a few years. And we never had any complaint about it. Although it was just for House members, it was a cool idea that was set up by Master ElderDaniel through "frapprMap." We still would have it if their sever was working for it. All I get is a 404 error now.

Glad we have one now for the whole site. Fun tool to play with. And...what guy doesn't like tools? :)


Edit: My star is right on target! 10 miles away from the airport. The trouble is it's the Washington Dulles airport and not the Raleigh airport. One airport is the same as any. Right? O.o






Profile for PAGAN
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Posted: 08:37:23 - Feb 06 2012
Times viewed: 5045

Thought this was funny...apparantly, I live in one of the most important areas in London...

Real Vampires love Vampire Rave


Great new toy though. I've been messing around in different countries and the actual place that I live in comes up pretty clear, I can see a figure looking out of my window!




Profile for deathnitegrl
deathnitegrl
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Posted: 10:18:51 - Feb 06 2012
Times viewed: 5031

It's cool I went to other places. It's like travelling on a plane for free. I saw buildings, we should wave at each other lol.




Profile for WhisperingWolf
WhisperingWolf
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Posted: 12:15:03 - Feb 06 2012
Times viewed: 5012

People are worrying over nothing. My IP shows up either in a complete different part of the state I am in, or at some points clear in Rochester New York, and I live in West Virginia lol




Profile for Dragonrouge
Dragonrouge
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Posted: 12:30:28 - Feb 06 2012
Times viewed: 5008

I don`t think it works properly. I don`t use a proxi, but that-is you-star shows me in two different places: sometimes in Bucharest and sometimes in Iasi and I am living in a different city between these two.

*imagesinwords edit* The location issue has been addressed in this thread

I like the idea of introducing this feature.
I am still waiting for the vampire game Cancer was thinking of and working at for so long. I hope you didn`t give up.




Profile for YourArchromanceAngel
YourArchromanceAngel
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Posted: 15:29:51 - Feb 06 2012
Times viewed: 4949

Wow, this is new to me. Sounds exciting.




Profile for LadyAmphora
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Posted: 02:49:56 - Feb 07 2012
Times viewed: 4772

Love this map. I live in Sacramento California and it has me in a bush in the middle of the US. LOL




Profile for Nightgame
Nightgame
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Posted: 02:53:14 - Feb 07 2012
Times viewed: 4770

It's interesting to see how heavy a concentration some areas have while others are thin. I'm not worried about any invasion of privacy, I've got no outstanding warrants that I know of at least. o-0


Note to Images - It's got me in the middle of a national forest so when you get done playing in your sandbox come on over to my tree house.




Profile for slipknotbabe356
slipknotbabe356
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Posted: 05:41:09 - Feb 07 2012
Times viewed: 4727

This is a pretty neat feature. I know I'm the blue star and all but I'm just curious to know what the red and yellow colored stars mean?




Profile for imagesinwords
imagesinwords
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Posted: 12:41:31 - Feb 07 2012
Times viewed: 4637

There's a legend at the bottom-

Blue: THIS IS YOU
Red: OTHER VAMPIRE RAVE VISITORS
Yellow: VISITORS USING A PROXY SERVER - UNRELIABLE ACTUAL LOCATION




Profile for naylastar
naylastar
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Posted: 14:34:51 - Feb 07 2012
Times viewed: 4611

I'm definitely not worried about privacy, I feel even safer than I did before. I'm not even on it. Where's my blue star lol?




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Posted: 15:35:48 - Feb 07 2012
Times viewed: 4602

I dont see a problem with this. 1) no one knows where my star is. 2) my star is about 50 miles away from me and in another state.

I also looked for people i know where they live and they dont show anywhere near where they live either, No invasion of anyones privacy




Profile for PoeticHeart
PoeticHeart
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Posted: 16:31:57 - Feb 07 2012
Times viewed: 4592

I quite like it!

I like how we now have a visual representation of where the majority of visitors are from. And to see if anyone is on the opposite side of the world! There have been many times where I have gotten a good morning greeting at 10 at night. :P




Profile for Chandra
Chandra
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Posted: 17:17:20 - Feb 07 2012
Times viewed: 4582

I think it's a good feature. Though when I clicked on it, there was no blue star??




Profile for Xxemopuppet
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Posted: 18:49:53 - Feb 07 2012
Times viewed: 4557

my blue star is not in the right place lol it is saying i live in like new jersey and im in tennessee :P weird how its so far off




Profile for slipknotbabe356
slipknotbabe356
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Posted: 21:17:20 - Feb 07 2012
Times viewed: 4530

I didn't see that, thank you Images! :)

It has me in the middle of the street! lol




Profile for BLOODLIFE
BLOODLIFE
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Posted: 21:50:12 - Feb 07 2012
Times viewed: 4514

Wonderful fun gadget.




Profile for Vampirewitch39
Vampirewitch39
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Posted: 22:54:22 - Feb 07 2012
Times viewed: 4505

Read the whole damn thread and all I can remember is the words- VR Coffee Mug.

*shakes fist at that poster*

Why you got to bring up the mug?!




Profile for fallendemon
fallendemon
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Posted: 00:53:06 - Feb 08 2012
Times viewed: 4481

very nice feature Cancer! it puts me in the backyard of a mansion in maryland which is only about a state and a half away but I love the map regardless.

good work!




Profile for ChastityMaundrell
ChastityMaundrell
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Posted: 04:31:02 - Feb 08 2012
Times viewed: 4440

This is such a awesome thing Cancer I soo like it




Profile for xXRoseBudXx
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Posted: 23:22:10 - Feb 08 2012
Times viewed: 4225

O_o... VR mug???? where ..... o_O




Profile for OzmanitisTheMighty
OzmanitisTheMighty
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Posted: 12:23:54 - Feb 09 2012
Times viewed: 4070

Wow, It appears I've moved in the really ritzy part of town LOL...there goes the neighborhood.




Profile for Vampirewitch39
Vampirewitch39
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Posted: 13:00:56 - Feb 09 2012
Times viewed: 4063

I gave up trying to zoom into my blue star. Not like I have anything to hide, or steal.

Not like a VR mug or anything.

*gives Cancer a look*




Profile for vampirekitty01
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Posted: 16:45:54 - Feb 09 2012
Times viewed: 4027

pretty neat. It was off by a few cities, but it was cool seeing how many other VR members live in my state :)




Profile for RedheadedxTemptress
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Posted: 17:26:10 - Feb 09 2012
Times viewed: 4023

i love it , it's nice to meet people all over the world .




Profile for XKarmaBitesX
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Dracula's Heart of Darkness (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

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Posted: 02:48:15 - Feb 10 2012
Times viewed: 3937

I can't even see my blue star anymore,my town is so dang small it probably does not even show up on a map lol. But when people have tried to find us on Yahoo Maps,it shows a shack that is down the highway from where we live.




Profile for DemonVampire
DemonVampire
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Posted: 18:06:58 - Feb 10 2012
Times viewed: 3788

I Love it. I find it cool, but it also makes me lonaly... No ones near where I am in NC USA




Profile for gravechild666
gravechild666
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Posted: 21:46:25 - Feb 10 2012
Times viewed: 3747

I like the new site toy its pretty cool mostly all countries and states are filled most of the time lol.




Profile for Jens
Jens
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Posted: 23:33:33 - Feb 10 2012
Times viewed: 3729

It's cool, and I am glad it is nowhere near accurate. It shows me as living 30 or so miles from where my real location is. ;)




Profile for imagesinwords
imagesinwords
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Posted: 00:13:56 - Feb 11 2012
Times viewed: 3723

It's accurate enough to show us the 'regions' our members are in. I think looking at it without zooming in, for most people- they say can that's pretty much where they live.

For anyone still concerned- IPs aren't GPS, it's just not going to pin us that way. And wasn't meant to. We can look at this and say- "Wow, look at all the 'Gulf States members', or 'California members'- and that's good enough.





* * * THIS THREAD IS CLOSED * * *

[Closed by Cancer on 03:07:00 - Feb 11 2012]
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