Do You Believe In Humans?

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TigerMoon
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09:28:46 Mar 19 2017
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The Human Condition is explained as follows:

"'The human condition' is a phrase typically used with respect the generality of situations that humans face in 'getting along with each other and the world', situations that are difficult to encompass in some way because of hang-ups or predispositions of one kind or another or just simple ignorance -"What did I do to wrong her?", "Why can't we get along with each other?" and "The beauty of a flower, isn't that proof of God"? -illnesses of a sort, mental and real, our own or society's, mental or real, and how they weigh upon us and society about us.

The human condition is, for example, the material of poetry in general and the lyrics of most music ('rap' included) and various other 'secular' or even religious situations -lovers in warring religions, for example, and the irony in the contemporaneity of both most abject and most excessive 'lifestyle and quality of life' as in some parts of Africa and anywhere in the US.

Perhaps the most obvious examples come right off any daily newspaper... or the dog next door, run over and killed because your neighbor had a fight with his wife and forgot to close the gate. And there are more general examples too -the individual saddling his friends and relatives with his aches and pains or complaints on government: "They (whoever) ought'a do (whatever)" and "You can't change human nature". Various expressions of frustration, 'unrequited love', 'the seven deadly sins' -'the human condition' is some one aspect or another of these items. "

~ http://www.condition.org/humcon.htm

...............

This is a simple discussion that has a lot of potential for groundbreaking views and perceptions. Please, my intention is not to start a war or to get this wonderful Forum Thread shut down. So, please, do keep it alive... but dead.

...............

My questions:
+ Do you believe in Humans? What could your possible reasons be?
+ What do you think is a possible cure for this ailment/disease/epidemic called, "The Human Condition" as explained above in the quoted paragraphs?
+ Just how would you propose that we resolve our differences and make an attempt to "coexist"? Is "coexistence" even possible?

..............

Thank you, you guys. :)

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vXVampre
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11:36:13 Mar 19 2017
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I believe in humans, we are capable of both amazing and terrible things. With this great power comes great resposiblity. To loose faith in humanity is to give up on the future.

We need to see our selves as the stardust that we are. No matter how you word it we all came into existance at some point so thus have a common origin. We are are one family in the universe. Of course by "we" I mean all things we consider living but also all of space and matter.

Coexistance starts with children. If we are not willing to change completely ourselves we can at least alow our children to make up their own minds about the world. Try to have a nuetral stance with the offspring and avoid poisoning their minds with any sort of hatred toward any sort of thing. Don't cause reverse prejudices against those that are wrong but instead explain the imperfect existance that we must ascend from.

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Umyalanaraku
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21:24:00 Mar 19 2017
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I do not have faith in humanity as a whole. I have faith in certain individuals but not everyone. There is no cure for how some individuals are as a person, everyone is different. If everyone were the same, I think that'd be a pretty boring world to live in.

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Keloan
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22:12:28 Mar 19 2017
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Humans are all to real. Humanity can be good or evil its the humans choice. Example, Mother Teresa, opposite, Adolph Hitler. A Human makes up their own mind. There is no cure for being human. The masses of humans will be the way they are.I am one of them that want to be one of you. Coexistence can happen if both sides can respect each other. But that is rarely what happens.

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MistressAngelique
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22:43:53 Mar 19 2017
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The definition of the human condition you have provided is just one of many. The human condition is a very broad topic, and encompasses so much such as birth, growth, emotionality, aspirations, conflicts, morality, and much more.

According to Jeremy Griffith, many people actively avoid thinking of the human condition because it is so depressing. He describes the human condition as the existence of good and evil in every person’s make-up. Because each person has positive and negative behavioral qualities, he/she makes “excuses” for the negative ones so they can live with their guilt. But then again, this is just one version of the human condition.

https://www.humancondition.com/freedom-expanded-book2-what-exactly-is-the-human-condition/

As far as your question, do I believe in humans? Lol – not even going to answer that one.

A cure for the human condition and coexistence? As with anything else, it takes a person to WANT TO DO IT. We can plead, cajole, threaten, do all of that, and if the person does not want to change or do it, he/she will not.

Each one of us has got to want to coexist with other people. I did read the link you posted, and further down it mentioned the “pecking order.” So true.

Since back in the days of cavemen, there has been a hierarchy, which still exists today. Leaders and followers. The strong will lead, and the weaker will follow. The key is to have strong leaders that will change the human condition for the better. Do I see that happening? No.

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Severus
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10:29:40 Mar 20 2017
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"The greatest challenge humanity faces is for our moral compass to keep pace with our technical achievements."
~ H.G. Wells, 1898

"I dont lnow how world war lll will be faught, but world war 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."
~Albert Einstein

The problem with sociery is that we have guided missiles and misguided men."
~ Martin Luther King Jr.

These three qoutes up to present day span o er 100 years of the same question. And If you look at the technology progress over the last 500 years and you look at the moral progress of the same time frame what you find is disparaging to say the least.
There historically hasn't been very much that is humanitarian about humanity.

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markus666
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12:34:45 Mar 20 2017
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We are living in the Era of the Sinners and for that reason, I can NOT believe in those called Humans. Yes, the technology is advance, but at the same time, all the others qualities are being lost. Soon or later, they will exterminate themselves.

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LazurusAQ
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21:10:12 Mar 20 2017
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All great questions. And very nice responses.

+ Do you believe in Humans? What could your possible reasons be?

Yes. I believe Human beings to be very real and I'd hope that you all do too.

It would start with the Cogito Ergo Sum: "I think therefore I am."

I believe the problems begin to arise when one tries to then apply this to the existence of another human being. Since your thoughts, aren't specifically their thoughts, well, how can you confirm their existence. And then as one gets older, learns about different despicable acts that occurred through history, experiences cruelty through peers, family members, strangers, or loved ones... this kind of "why do people have to suck" haze glosses over.

I once had that adolescent view point, "why couldn't I have been born a dog or cat", "all people suck". However, later in life I've come to find that perspective to be a bit sophomoric and self centered. Reasons being that having the perspective of being a victim to the circumstances of life, promotes the path of dismissing taking ownership of your own actions and choices. It also neglects the understanding of why and how an individual ego drives people to do the variety of things they do. If you take the stance of rejecting reality, reality will in turn find creative ways to reject you back. Of course, I am not saying people don't do fucked up things, because clearly they do. I do not suggest making an excuse for it, but rather accepting it as the reality. Being consistently aware, doesn't specifically give one the victims perspective, and if someone is willing to learn from what one observes and experiences, then instead of being the victim of life, consider oneself more accurately prepared for it. Aware of the manifestation of +/-

Aware that it isn't always sunshine and rainbows. Sometimes it just rains. Sometimes it's hail. And every now and then its a dam hurricane.

The world, the universe, can be a very physically violent place to live at times. Humanity is not solely responsible for this. Human beings do have to deal with it though.

So jump back to the cogito, I exist now at least, and then through specific human interaction I can kind of confirm that you exist.

The first clue was probably the blood bond that exists between family. My uncle is retired Navy, he taught me how to play chess which was the next clue. See in order to be skilled enough to have consistent success against an experienced opponent in the game of Chess, one must be able to foreshadow their opponents next moves. Now, I've taken the time to think about what someone else is thinking about, from their side of the board. From another perspective. The game of football also has this chess like element when you get into play calling and strategy. Ironically enough, some of the first huge strides in artificial intelligence developments came thru teaching a computer how to win in Chess.

The next clue would be found within the Arts. Artists like the Doors & Jimi Hendrix found this way to musically capture this whole psychedelic experience that happened before I was born, yet without doing any of those drugs I could feel a taste of the expression. And through their accomplishment, I realized this translation of experience into music has a human element very unique to the species.

Then this little movie called the Matrix comes out and really forced me to question all of this. How do I know, I'm not just in some simulation, right now??? Trying to prove this seemed a bit problematic. Fast forward to the Matrix online, where I'm now exposed to a whole community of people, who ask themselves this same question. Is any of it even real? Now what I quickly came to love about the MxO experience was that obviously, this community mostly consists of fans of the film. That means most of these people like martial arts, action movies, philosophy, computers. Common ground. Connecting with people, who likely at least shared liking the movies if not much more. And of course, in forum discussions there were constant debates on what meant what in the film. After diving into every single piece of media released, reading others interpretations, and research, it became clear that many of the parallels in the film derived from a variety of theological references, stories, and characters. Much like how a whole generation fell in love with the parallels found in Star Wars & the Force. Now prior to this point, I had come to the conclusion that the true power to these so very popular books and stories was within the parallels themselves, the in between, not so much in the verbatim text as I always suspected things to be lost in translations, edits, and changing dynasties. However, seeing it woven together like that across theological platforms just somehow really reinforced the importance of the in between the lines. The influence. The impressions.

On top of that, the MxO experience awakened my imagination to new levels of questioning, of exploration. And at some point along the journey I watched the film "Waking Life" and was introduced to the term:

Oneironautics [ah-nayr-o-not-iks] refers to the ability to travel within a dream on a conscious basis. Such a traveler in a dream may be called an oneironaut.

I was reminded of some concepts I had stumbled upon on my own having had some lucid dreams prior. But again, fresh eyes, a new perspective. And a new objective. Complete and total control of my dreams. I did the research, put in the work, and by reaching a point of complete dream control, I could then confirm that even if everything while awake is some simulation or means of control, that my consciousness is still mine to control.

I was fortunate to do this while knowing someone with more lucid experience than I had. Eventually we were able to share dreams, and through this I could finally fully confirm, that other people exist for sure, without a shadow of a doubt as our individual consciousness was able to explore together without physical boundaries and rules. Thus totally validating that human beings are real. And other human beings consciousness are real AF too as I have shared with others since.

+ What do you think is a possible cure for this ailment/disease/epidemic called, "The Human Condition" as explained above in the quoted paragraphs?

The problem here is in the very word itself. Condition. Humans are products of thousands of years of conditioning. From family, from governments, from Kings.

I believe than an Omnist approach to things would be a possible cure.

LI posts about this concept in more detail:

Omnism Post.

It states: Omnism 'affirms the necessity of one arriving at an understanding of reality based on personal experience, engagement, and inquiry, and an acceptance of the validity and legitimacy of the differing understandings of others.'

Or in short, can't we all just get along?

Yet it isn't that simple though, is it.

"IT'S NOT A FUCKIN' BOOK! IT'S A WEAPON! A weapon aimed right at the hearts and minds of the weak and the desperate. It will give us control of them. If we want to rule more than one small, fuckin' town, we have to have it. People will come from all over, they'll do exactly what I tell 'em if the words are from the book. It's happened before and it'll happen again. All we need is that book." - Carnegie (The Book Of Eli)

+ Just how would you propose that we resolve our differences and make an attempt to "coexist"? Is "coexistence" even possible?

Now in that book, there is a book called Revelations which I studied at great length. And then I was introduced to the last Revelation of St.Paul which did not make the final edition cut, but really adds a whole new element to the ideas of rapture. Though the Omist position allows me to view this from a non-religiously specific perspective, I wouldn't doubt, that an anticipated nerd rapture & a holy rapture, are not at all a different event.

I've discussed my proposed solution in this thread:

Neo-Human.

In that thread I reference some pretty well known scientists and a few turned science fiction writers ranging from today to over 60 years ago.
And I also addressed some of the most obvious concerns that come up within the debate.

Evolution is the solution. And if your noodle hasn't been broken yet, note that the opening quote from the Chemistry professor in that thread speaking about singularity (The nerd Rapture) came from what? "Waking Life." Art steering its head back into the conversation.
The film also discusses issues like the problem of "free-will" and the idea of a collective consciousness that exists beyond mere instincts, though not ruling out that this is the same 'hard drive' that we pull our instincts from. That horizon of consciousness. The layers though.

Unfortunately, all of the conditioning makes it difficult for humanity to just say, "Hey guys, let's like really do this whole world peace thing."
There are also factors like mental disorders, drugs, extremists, but I believe the primary perpetrators to be money and lust for power.

Those in positions of wealth, power, propaganda, wmds, and control of conditions will do whatever they can to keep it that way. Means world peace is not making the action items list any time soon if they have something to say about it. And in the interim, he with the coin still makes them rules.

The wild card though, would be an extinction level event, man made or natural, both in tandem could really suck. Either way end game is the same. Money won't buy shit once the world turns to shit. And extinction level events accelerate evolution out of necessity for survival. Einstein may be right about WW IV being fought with sticks and stones, but rest assured. At some point after the dust settles, the juice will get turned back on. And that's assuming whatever happens turns ALL the lights off. The bigger point that he is making, is that WW III would very likely be Nuclear.

And from the ashes, mankind may have the opportunity to step out of his flesh, protected from the battle of positive and negative in the digital in between space created. Armed with an abundance and saturation of pure knowledge. Allowing the Earth to heal itself and carry on.

"And as one realizes that one is a dream figure in another person's dream, that is self awareness." -Timothy "Speed" Levitch

End Transmission.

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DarkestTemptation
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03:21:29 Mar 21 2017
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No, because that all crave power or to rule or take what they want an go to war for about any or everything. They destroy them selfs as time goes by. Everything repeats itself in one point in time. For every one taken out there is two that comes back. Making it even more harder to go on but, human will power makes him get back up an fight no matter what the cost. It's either brave or stupid to do so. We have not seen nothing yet folks World War III is coming so be ready one an all.

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Toxicbite29
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04:38:36 Mar 21 2017
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Humans crave power and money and lands (especially lands that aren't their own) , they care not for the order of nature or the animals and plants on this earth. I think supernatural beings are more deserving Of The "human"title because they crave not material things. They crave honour, loyalty, peace, bravery, courage and discipline.

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Li
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16:11:49 Mar 23 2017
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I want to believe in humans. I do believe we could be great, but it would take an enlightening on a massive scale. Laz mentioned omnism, and I think this is a beautiful concept. I wish everyone could reach a place of acceptance. I'm trying my best to get there myself. I have made leaps and bounds over the years, but I have worked for it. Being self-aware is not an easy feat. It can make you very uncomfortable to really look at yourself. To be accountable. To really recognize your role in the grand scheme of things, and to take control and responsibility for your thoughts and actions. I am not always successful. I still trip and fall. But I get back up and I try again. That is one of the things I do see in humanity that I admire: perseverance.

I'm an avid fan of the show Supernatural. In the recent seasons, God has taken a hiatus and the world has suffered in his absence. When he finally reemerges, he meets with one of his angels, Metatron, the Scribe of God. During that meeting, Metatron, who is no longer an angel, gives it to God straight when God tells Metatron why he abandoned everyone:

God - "... you disappointed me. You all disappointed me."

Metatron - "... you're wrong about humanity. They are your greatest creation because they are better than you are. Yeah, sure, they're weak and they cheat and steal and ... destroy and disappoint, but they also give and create and they sing and dance and love. And, above all, they never give up."

If you'd like to watch the scene, skip to 1:25 in the video below:

Laz, you talk about money being the key to power. It is. Getting rid of money, leveling the playing field, that would go a long way into getting people to a place where they could be enlightened, accepting, self-aware. Still, there would be people who would seek to corrupt and destroy. There was corruption before money, and there will be corruption after money. It is the human condition.

Now, about the neo-human. A world inhabited by beings who have experienced a nerd rapture and who live in harmony with the machine is an interesting concept. If man, with the help of the machine, can reach a place where he no longer has to strive for something, to fight for more, can he then achieve a level of self-awareness and acceptance which would eliminate the human condition?

In order to eliminate the human condition, do we need to eliminate the human? To be more humane, do we need to be less human?

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Illusion

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18:22:13 Mar 24 2017
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I am not sure what to say about this....I find it all interesting but sure I believe in humans ?

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LazurusAQ
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11:56:04 Mar 27 2017
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hu·man

adjective: human

1.
relating to or characteristic of people or human beings.
"the human body"
synonyms: anthropomorphic, anthropoid, humanoid, hominid
"in human form"
of or characteristic of people as opposed to God or animals or machines, especially in being susceptible to weaknesses.
"they are only human, and therefore mistakes do occur"
synonyms: mortal, flesh and blood; More
fallible, weak, frail, imperfect, vulnerable, susceptible, erring, error-prone;
physical, bodily, fleshly
"they're only human"
of or characteristic of people's better qualities, such as kindness or sensitivity.

noun: human; plural noun: humans

1.
a human being, especially a person as distinguished from an animal or (in science fiction) an alien.

In order to eliminate the human condition, do we need to eliminate the human? To be more humane, do we need to be less human?

The old systems of conditioning need to be eliminated and replaced with concrete knowledge, pure information, and raw intelligence. This may or may not ultimately result in the elimination of the human body. If we continue to juxtapose nerdiness with holiness, then I would bet that the human body doesn't make the final cut. Though the opportunity for the Neo-human to move forward in it's creators image, is pretty probable.

"And the manifestations of this neo-human-type evolution, manifestations could be dramatically counter-intuitive. That's the interesting part. The old evolution is cold. It's sterile. It's efficient, okay? And its manifestations of those social adaptations. We're talking about parasitism, dominance, morality, okay? Uh, war, predation, these would be subject to de-emphasis. These will be subject to de-evolution. The new evolutionary paradigm will give us the human traits of truth, of loyalty, of justice, of freedom. These will be the manifestations of the new evolution. And that is what we would hope to see from this. That would be nice." -Eamonn Healy

In my opinion, the human body is classified as a species so that we can have a label for each animal group, and that's cool. Titles and labels aren't really all that important to me. It's actions, choices, that matter most. Human consciousness governs this. And the idea is to preserve ones traits of individuality while giving the individual access to all information. No more secrets. No more hiding. No more feeling naked in the garden.

I believe the step of uploading consciousness to be the most realistic option towards trying to long-term dodge the negative side of the +/- equation. There is certainly potential to physically evolve as well. However, if I was given a choice to look like this:

Or like this:

I'm going with the latter. Doubt I live long enough to see it play out, yet the more I think about the concept of multi-verses, perhaps so many people are becoming more and more aware of the concept in recent years, not because this is how our universe is set up now, but rather how the universe man creates will be constructed. And then my non-linear tendencies would suggest it may just be, as it usually is, a bit of both. But I digress, that is surely a conversation topic for another discussion.

"And what is interesting here is that evolution now becomes an individually centered process, emanating from the needs and desires of the individual, and not an external process, a passive process where the individual is just at the whim of the collective. So, you produce a neo-human, okay, with a new individuality and a new consciousness. But that's only the beginning of the evolutionary cycle because as the next cycle proceeds, the input is now this new intelligence. As intelligence piles on intelligence, as ability piles on ability, the speed changes. Until what? Until we reach a crescendo in a way could be imagined as an enormous instantaneous fulfillment of human? human and neo-human potential. It could be something totally different. It could be the amplification of the individual, the multiplication of individual existences. Parallel existences now with the individual no longer restricted by time and space." -Eamon Healy

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LuvlySwan86
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16:47:52 Mar 27 2017
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Firstly, this is a great subject matter, nice. :)

Yes, I believe in the human condition. But I believe it's invironmental. We learn it.

If you were to strip away societal constraints, we would be beings that were much simpler and needed/lived by the code of these few things:

1. Self preservation. Do anything you can to eat, sleep safely, breed safely and kill anything that attempts to prevent that.

2. Procreate. Or just have sex a lot. Keep the species alive, and always choose the stronger, faster, smarter, better hunter for a mate. You don't want your children to be weak or inferior. Be willing to die for your offspring, they will ensure the survival of your species.

That's it. Period. We would be no different to any other animal without the influence of our childhood, our education, our peers and those that tell us what we should and should not be. Primitives and neandethols learned to live in harmony because if they didn't they'd have slowly killed each other off. No more human race.

I'll tell you this for free, our planet would be thriving if we weren't what we have become.

My people (I've got Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander heritage) had a great respect for the circle of life. For their planet. Their people. They thanked their meals for dying for them. Not their god for providing the meal. And they have a god. "The great white spirit." And they never killed an animal with cruelty like people do now. Everything was done in such a way that the animal would die quickly, and with as little pain as possible.
Having seen some of the things they do to animals before they die now, I'm actually considering becoming a vegan. I love meat, but I don't want to support the disgusting way that these animals are treated anymore.

Essentially, if you ask me, the human condition is man made. And it's destruction.

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AryanDrusus
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13:46:49 Apr 08 2017
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The Human Condition was the reason why the Nazi regime started out its operations in the first place. If you have read the book, Mein Kampf, it states in black and white that Hitler had foreseen the evolution of the humans to lack in clarity, depth and substance, eventually leading to their own demise and the cause of fall of other humans.

The Human Condition is a vast topic, but, I see it as the frailty of the Human. The inconceivable notion that a Human might be wrong appears to be the most outrageous thing that a Human could ever be faced with.

Then, there is politics, which determine the actions and behaviors of men against men. I do mean it mean in a globalised political sense, but in a sense of when men regulate their affairs with each other. I am not one for politics, as I seem to be standing alone in my fight, my struggle.

What is your struggle as a Human? That is your condition. Your frailty. Your weakness. This questions then begs the question.... "Why even be human at all, in the first place?"

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Keloan
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20:43:45 Apr 08 2017
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My struggle as a human is my spirit being trapped in this 51 year old broken down body,waking up to just another day of the same thing over and over and over again. As far as being Human, if there was something else , I would take it, no matter the cost.

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LadySilva
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04:59:03 Apr 21 2017
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humans and i can not relate

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GULBRANDR
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21:26:03 Apr 26 2017
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Yes I do. All of humankind has shown the awesome and the horrible. Humankind has great potential and needs to use it wisely.

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Theban
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14:59:37 Apr 29 2017
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No I feel humanity will fall again.

I have skipped the thread and I am just answering the question. I doubt, I think, I am.

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MoonlitGodess
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08:35:14 Jun 30 2017
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I think humanity is tittering between the potential to do great things as a whole, or to cause great destruction.

in my eyes it seems that with each passing day it leans towards destruction. humanity can and will cause havoc eventually

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Terezi
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14:00:46 Jul 03 2017
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i think i lost faith in humanity out side my family circle inside my family circle i have faith

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Doru
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15:53:04 Jul 26 2017
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Humanity is a fools illusion. We are all just puppets waiting for the strings to be manipulated by our fate, controlled by forces we cannot understand. We would like to think we are in control, yet the random out of control vehicle on a road, serial killers , a plane that falls from the sky, or mother nature can extinguish a life in a blink of an eye. We drift blindly to our next random insignificant act in the play of life not knowing the time, place or the event that will extinguish this delicate existence we share with one another.

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NocturnalPulse
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17:50:55 Jul 26 2017
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i believe in humans, they are capable to do wonderful things, but i don't have faith in them, they don't love each other for real

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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •• Closed by Vampirewitch39 on Feb 06 2019 •
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