.
VR
Supernatural VS Natural
General Discussion
•  General Discussion Home  •   Forums Home  •



SireWallFlower
SireWallFlower
Premiere Sire (125)
Posts: 811
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of The House of Caomhnõir-an-Eolas
Vampire Rave member for 14 years.
05:41:58 Aug 18 2018
Read 1,267 times

So, I've read in a book recently that in ancient times a witch's power was thought to be derived from spirits, whether they be a familiar spirit or just a spirit manifested through invocation or evocation. In the newer, modern traditions of witchcraft, there seems to be this idea that a witch's power comes from within. This idea seems to state that the spell, ritual work, tools of the craft...all of it, is simply for show. A show intended to incite some sort of reaction from a latent part of your subconscious mind. I also read that witches from the old world would consider this idea laughable. My question is, what are your thoughts on this subject, and what have you read on the matter? Assuming of course you believe in witchcraft, in some aspect, do you believe that a witch/human must derive powers from some supernatural force (spirits), or do we as humans contain some inherent power, the power of thought, will and the mind that makes summoning a spirit to do your bidding unnecessary to perform spells, rituals?
Some could argue that a witch's ability to summon spirits, through complex ritual work, would be a testament in and of its self to this person's natural abilities at work.
Others would state that as beings of energy, soul, and mind we are connected to the "divine," or a universal source, and through meditative thought we have the ability to reconnect to that source of power and that is the power through which a witch exerts his or her will upon the physical world (thus rendering the use of spirits unnecessary).
So...thoughts?




•  REPLY  •


thecrucible
thecrucible
Termagant (58)
Posts: 40
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Hell (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 5 years.
19:53:27 Nov 03 2018
Read 1,218 times

I can’t say a lot about this. The topic of witches, creation, god ... is all too complicated for a forum post by myself, and minds are entirely too delicate, even malleable.

Your point, that we are all too connected to the divine, is of the greatest importance. I would advise against witchcraft, if I’m answering your question honestly, responsibly.



•  REPLY  •


thecrucible
thecrucible
Termagant (58)
Posts: 40
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Hell (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 5 years.
19:56:01 Nov 03 2018
Read 1,217 times

* Your point, that we are all connected to the divine.

(Sorry about that, ignore “too” in that sentence, in the first post.)



•  REPLY  •


06:17:27 Jan 30 2019
Read 1,178 times

I believe there are several varieties of magic. I am more inclined toward inner magic but in this day and age it is harder for us to embrace extremes.



•  REPLY  •


EstrangedOne
EstrangedOne
High Sire (156)
Posts: 1,742
Honor: 200
[ Give / Take ]
The House of Madadh-Alluidh is a member of an Alliance

Member of The House of Madadh-Alluidh
Vampire Rave member for 11 years.
18:55:16 Aug 09 2021
Read 992 times

Well, that also depends upon just how far you want to venture into it all. If you only want to learn to control your own life, then it's one thing. But if you want to do something else with it, then, well... yeah, that's another level, altogether.


•  REPLY  •


JohnKnox666
JohnKnox666
Vampling (25)
Posts: 11
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
The Kindred Rose (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of The Kindred Rose (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 2 years.
05:47:24 Aug 10 2021
Read 988 times

The way I see it Magick is defined as changing the world with accordance with your will.
The world can be the outside 1 or the inside 1..

From my experience in my life and work you need spiritual entities, physical tools, group work, timed work to magnify your personal power and change the outside 1..

Changing the inside 1, that's psychology, psychiatry and using spiritual tools..

What do you guys say?



•  REPLY  •


EstrangedOne
EstrangedOne
High Sire (156)
Posts: 1,742
Honor: 200
[ Give / Take ]
The House of Madadh-Alluidh is a member of an Alliance

Member of The House of Madadh-Alluidh
Vampire Rave member for 11 years.
08:58:51 Aug 11 2021
Read 981 times

Well, quite frankly, on the personal level, I say "fuck psychiatry". To truly "balance" the chemicals of the brain, I don't think one should need the use of exterior chemicals. Psychology, on the other hand... well, therein lies the real trick of it all. To master the world around you, you have to master your own mind, and thus yourself.
As a genius of combat has said: "To wield the fear in others, you have to conquer your own, first."
Fear is the killer of one's own mind.

Mind you, obviously, I know others will have a different view, but That is mine.


•  REPLY  •


MoonIsMySun
MoonIsMySun
Irritater (16)
Posts: 101
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 5 years.
21:45:37 Aug 11 2021
Read 979 times

If it exists, it's natural.



•  REPLY  •


markus666
markus666
Great Sire (118)
Posts: 1,723
Honor: 21
[ Give / Take ]
Coven of Elizabeth Batory is a member of an Alliance

Member of Coven of Elizabeth Batory
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
17:48:51 Aug 16 2021
Read 967 times

Witches get their energy from Mother earth, by using the 5 elements within.

Real vampires love Vampire Rave.



•  REPLY  •


LordEirik
LordEirik
Disciple (53)
Posts: 24
Honor: 45
[ Give / Take ]
The Coven of Hellhounds is a member of an Alliance

Member of The Coven of Hellhounds
Vampire Rave member for 2 years.
21:27:47 Aug 17 2021
Read 963 times

I can cast spells but do not need pomp and ceremony all I need do is draw enough energy from the living nature around me , trees, shrubs, etc then convert that energy into the spell, However the more complex the more exhausted I become so I think as far as I am concerned it is part external and part within me as well, I am a Dragon but not a fully awakened Dragon, I have not my memories of my kind nor do I remember how to do the things I do it just happens kinda like I am not the one controling it from happening.



•  REPLY  •


Doru
Doru
Venerable Sire (134)
Posts: 1,177
Honor: 487
[ Give / Take ]
Sanguis Dracones (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Sanguis Dracones (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
08:46:51 Aug 25 2021
Read 956 times

Beware of all that you do, because once the door is opened, it does not shut with ease and you may receive more than you bargined for in the end. Ritual and ceremony are for your protection and any failure to follow ritual and ceremony may be to your detriment.



•  REPLY  •


EstrangedOne
EstrangedOne
High Sire (156)
Posts: 1,742
Honor: 200
[ Give / Take ]
The House of Madadh-Alluidh is a member of an Alliance

Member of The House of Madadh-Alluidh
Vampire Rave member for 11 years.
09:35:46 Aug 25 2021
Read 954 times

@Doru
The sad thing is just how correct you are, there... I've actually been subjected to the business end of something that I wasn't even supposed to be part of. And I was the one who had to put an end to it - needless to say, it was a Bitch (pardon the language Lol).



•  REPLY  •


Doru
Doru
Venerable Sire (134)
Posts: 1,177
Honor: 487
[ Give / Take ]
Sanguis Dracones (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Sanguis Dracones (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
07:38:22 Aug 29 2021
Read 949 times

Gods of Darkness, Satanic Hierarchy, Demons and Angels, I come before you with a wanted heart.
I DO invocate and conjure thee, O Spirits to hear me and thank you for this sacred plant.
I draw upon this sacred plant and summon the sacred rites of magic.
As it's sacred smoke touches my body, I request that it cleanse my mind, body, and spirit.
As it's sacred smoke fills this room, I request that it purify, protect and bless this space.
As it's sacred smoke rises, I request that it carry away all negativity, fears, and attachments.
As this sacred smoke leaves, I request that spells, curses and invocations return to those who cast them
by three fold, without return, nor protection for those whom sent them.

SUCH ARE THE WORDS... ~bows~



•  REPLY  •


Nekirena
Nekirena
Venerable Sire (132)
Posts: 1,442
Honor: 80
[ Give / Take ]
The House of Lunazure is a member of an Alliance

Member of The House of Lunazure
Vampire Rave member for 15 years.
06:52:23 Sep 23 2021
Read 923 times

While I do believe that some people are born with a bit of something extra- whether it's the ability to call from within a power that is a connection of some divine being (or beings) or the adapted ability to harness the power found around them- I do not believe everyone has that ability or has the ability to acquire it, whether from an internal or external source. I think it has more to do with the ancestral background that breathes life into that aspect. Almost like genetics- your body has adapted to ways that were necessary for survival for your ancestral kin, thus passing along that strength until it is either adapted, dies out, or forgotten.

I also don't necessary believe it is all "supernatural". I believe a lot of the "power" harnessed, can be found merely within the sources provided around them- naturally occurring within a person and/or environment. There is a reason there are five elements; Water, Fire, Air, Earth, and Spirit: Each one of them can be used to survive and prosper and each one can kill you- all depending on how it is used.



•  REPLY  •


undyingscholar
undyingscholar
Caitiff (17)
Posts: 24
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 2 years.
23:18:45 Sep 24 2021
Read 916 times

Willpower is key in any kind of work. One can pray and perform purifications and even offer up sacrifices, but without a clear purpose and desired outcome it is all pointless. Fire can be lit, but without proper kindling it will die out.

I would say we humans are interlopers; We are a point within a liminal space. We are both corporeal and spiritual---we are aware of all that which our senses process, and can even be aware of that which lies beyond.

So it is with witchcraft and any sort of work that one must push through the veil---reach out into the cosmic power, fueled by one's own inner force.



•  REPLY  •


Doru
Doru
Venerable Sire (134)
Posts: 1,177
Honor: 487
[ Give / Take ]
Sanguis Dracones (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Sanguis Dracones (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
05:11:55 Nov 26 2021
Read 872 times

I DO invocate and conjure thee, O four succubi consorts: Lilith, Mahalath, Agrat Bat Mahlat, and Naamah ; and being with power armed from the SUPREME MAJESTY, I do strongly command thee, by BERALANENSIS, BALDACHIENSIS, PAUMACHIA, and APOLOGIAE SEDES; by the most Powerful Princes, Genii, Liachidæ, and Ministers of the Tartarean Abode; and by the Chief Prince of the Seat of Apologia in the Ninth Legion, I do invoke thee, and by invocating conjure thee. And being armed with power from the SUPREME MAJESTY, I do strongly command thee, O four succubi consorts: Lilith, Mahalath, Agrat Bat Mahlat, and Naamah by Him Who spake and it was done, and unto whom all creatures be obedient. Also I, being made after the image of GOD, endued with power from GOD and created according unto His will, do exorcise thee by that most mighty and powerful name of GOD, EL, strong and wonderful; And I command thee and Him who spake the Word and His FIAT was accomplished, and by all the names of God. Also by the names ADONAI, EL, ELOHIM, ELOHI, EHYEH, ASHER EHYEH, ZABAOTH, ELION, IAH, TETRAGRAMMATON, SHADDAI, LORD GOD MOST HIGH, I do exorcise thee and do powerfully command thee, four succubi consorts: Lilith, Mahalath, Agrat Bat Mahlat, and Naamah, that thou dost forthwith appear unto me here before this Circle in a fair human shape, without any deformity or tortuosity. And by this ineffable name, TETRAGRAMMATON IEHOVAH, do I command thee, at the which being heard the elements are overthrown, the air is shaken, the sea runneth back, the fire is quenched, the earth trembleth, and all the hosts of the celestials, terrestrials, and infernals, do tremble together, and are troubled and confounded. Wherefore come thou, O four succubi consorts: Lilith, Mahalath, Agrat Bat Mahlat, and Naamah, forthwith, and without delay, from any or all parts of the world wherever thou mayest be, and make rational answers unto all things that I shall demand of thee. Come thou peaceably, visibly, and affably, now, and without delay, manifesting that which I shall desire. For thou art conjured by the name of the LIVING and TRUE GOD, HELIOREN, wherefore fulfil thou my commands, and persist thou therein unto the end, and according unto mine interest, visibly and affably speaking unto me with a voice clear and intelligible without any ambiguity to suffer those of whom doubt your power.

I command and seal in Gold the KINGS: Bael, Paimon, Beleth, Purson, Asmoday, Vine, Balam, Zagan, and Belial.
I command and seal in Copper DUKES: Agares, Valefor, Barbatos, Gusion, Eligos, Zepar, Bathim, Sallos, Aim, Bune, Berith, Astaroth, Focalor, Vepar, Vual, Crocell, Alloces, Murmur, Gremory, Vapula, Haures, Amdusias and Dantalion.
I command and seal in Tin PRINCES AND PRELATES: Vassago, Sitri, Ipos, Gaap, Stolas, Orobas,and Seere.
I command and seal in Silver MARQUISES: Samigina, Amon, Leraje, Naberius, Ronove, Forneus, Marchosias, Phenex, Sabnock, Shax, Orias, Andras, Andrealphus, Cimeies, and Decarabia.
I command and seal in Mercury PRESIDENTS: Marbas, Buer, Botis, Marax, Glasya-Labolas, Foras, Gaap, Malphas, Haagenti, Caim, Ose, Amy, Zagan, and Valac.
I command and seal in Copper and Silver alike EARLS, or COUNTS: Botis, Marax, Glasya-Labolas, Ronove, Furfur, Halphas, Raum, Vine, Bifrons, and Andromalius.
I command and seal in Lead KNIGHT: Furcas.

HEAR MY COMMANDS OR SUFFER THE VIBRATION OF DIVINE NAMES FOR ETERNITY.

SUCH ARE THE WORDS… ~BOWS~

LORD DORU



•  REPLY  •


CrimsonShade
CrimsonShade
Mosquito (7)
Posts: 5
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 1 years.
06:50:43 Jun 01 2022
Read 611 times

Looking at this from the viewpoint of a parapsychologist, humans have something called PK, or psychokinesis. It's like electromagnetic pulses that occur from firing of neurons. Some can learn to amplify this, and this causes telepathy in a sense, which is where levitation and such come into play. So it's quite possible that witches at the time, as well as modernly, use PK as a source of their magic. I personally am a practicing witch and I don't discount that as an option.



•  REPLY  •


StanleyComics
StanleyComics
Malcontent (9)
Posts: 2
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 1 years.
14:40:38 Jan 15 2023
Read 322 times

This is a very interesting question, and I have thoughts on it. When you look back in history, you find out that what people used to call spirits back in the day, were manifestations of very natural forces. I think with the advansment of science, what used to be magick back then has gained new names. Like for instance, I've read some of a copy of the Ars Goetia and there was a very interesting paragraph which talked about the belief in the supernatural. The Ars Goetia is basically a list of 72 demons and their sigils and ways with which to summon them in order to employ them and make them do things for us. The book had a disclaimer that said something among the lines of "If you do not believe in the supernatural, then you should believe in the natural explanation of these writings - the 72 demons represent a specific cerebral center in your brain, that corresponds to specific stimuli. Those can be auditory and visual sounds. So in a way, the rituals listed in the book are meant to stimulate those centers and make you change your thinking in a mire beneficial way to you". Basically, that means spirits can be an allegory for the power within a person. So in a way, this book was walking the Schrodinger's Catbox route, where id doesn't really matter if the power you summon is natural or supernatural. What matters is the result. That to me is the power of magick - it creates two worlds that coexist in the same space. One world with a scientific explanation and one with a supernatural one. Both can coexist, until it's revealed which one caused the result.
So in other words, it doesn't really matter where a witch's power comes from, rather the results of it that manifest in our reality.



•  REPLY  •


Aeznara
Aeznara
Irritater (16)
Posts: 31
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
10:24:27 Jul 02 2023
Read 194 times

I believe that witches are perfectly natural. Tools and such aid in the raising of power, with some a ritual may: take longer, be more difficult or cause someone to get quite creative in how they bring the power needed to effect change together. So it is true to me that there are work arounds for magical tools, but we have them because they can help make our lives and magic that much more straight forward, quick to conjure and some of us love a good show with tools we can return to time and time again to inspire a certain frame of mind and help us open to our own flow of power.



•  REPLY  •


Aeznara
Aeznara
Irritater (16)
Posts: 31
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
10:25:46 Jul 02 2023
Read 192 times

*without some (tools)



•  REPLY  •


vormel
vormel
Hellhound (70)
Posts: 52
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Coven of Invisus Secretus is a member of an Alliance

Member of Coven of Invisus Secretus
Vampire Rave member for 6 years.
10:50:08 Sep 01 2023
Read 140 times

This topic is very interesting and I myself have reflected a lot on it.
I think both theories are possible, even at the same time. One thing is the mental abilities of human being (some of them remain unknown) and another question is to evoque sprits to get some power. At the end, it depends of our Universe Concept, if only material or spiritual+material, I suppose.



•  REPLY  •


POST RESPONSE



•   QUOTE  •   QUOTE HELP  •  


POST PREVIEW


•  CLOSE PREVIEW  •  
Post preview does not reflect tags that may be stripped out after you post. What HTML tags you can use depends on your membership type. More information.





•  General Discussion Home  •   Forums Home  •

COMPANY
REQUEST HELP
CONTACT US
SITEMAP
REPORT A BUG
UPDATES
LEGAL
TERMS OF SERVICE
PRIVACY POLICY
DMCA POLICY
REAL VAMPIRES LOVE VAMPIRE RAVE
© 2004 - 2024 Vampire Rave
All Rights Reserved.
Vampire Rave is a member of 
Page generated in 0.2436 seconds.
X
Username:

Password:
I agree to Vampire Rave's Privacy Policy.
I agree to Vampire Rave's Terms of Service.
I agree to Vampire Rave's DMCA Policy.
I agree to Vampire Rave's use of Cookies.
•  SIGN UP •  GET PASSWORD •  GET USERNAME  •
X