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Masquerade Ball Photography
2008 Vampire Rave Meetup
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Morrigon
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03:55:53 Jul 23 2008
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I would like to bring my camera for a short period of time before we really get going with the Masquerade Ball on Saturday.

I will be taking pictures of people in their costumes, for a small amount of time, for free.
I will NOT be bringing my camera into the area where everyone will be dancing. I don't want to make people uncomfortable or take pictures without anyone's consent.

Allgenre and I are still working out where the best location for these pictures will be.
These pictures will be available to people (those IN the pictures) at print size for free (over 300 resolution). Members will be given the picture files at no charge but are responsible for printing them in any way they choose.

If you want your picture taken on Saturday, it would greatly help me if you could post here. I know it's short notice and it doesn't have to be set in stone. I will be as flexible as I can, but knowing how many people want this done for them will help me make sure I set aside enough time to do the pictures.

These pictures will not be posted on VR without the consent of the people in the pictures.
So please, let me know if you're interested!




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NightBlossom
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04:01:28 Jul 23 2008
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I'm definately in. Whatever time you have available, bump me in the first chance you get!



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Drakontion
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09:36:07 Jul 23 2008
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Sure =)



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Jamie
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12:44:39 Jul 23 2008
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I hadn't thought about people not wanting their picture taken there! haha.....I plan on taking mine in and taking pictures. So if that offends anyone, then let me know when I take it, and I will delete it or not post it. But hell, I gotta get some pictures of you people. How long have we waited and planned for this? Gotta get some pics of it. =)

That's great about taking pics beforehand too. That will be before everyone gets sweaty or drunk. :P



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allgenre
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19:54:54 Jul 23 2008
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I had already made it very clear on previous threads.

Picture taking during the events or dinners will not be allowed under any circumstances. This is not negotiable.

Prior to the Masquerade Ball, if you want you pictures done - a meeting area will be set aside and posted here.

All Genre



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Jamie
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02:50:22 Jul 24 2008
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I hadn't seen that before. I still don't. Guess I will have to go see if I can find it. You mean we can't take pictures at the ball? That's seriously fucked up. Makes me not want to go. I am not understanding that at all. It's not like it's Fort Knox or a serious political event.



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Jamie
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03:12:39 Jul 24 2008
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Ok, I have looked all over the threads and cannot find one on banning photography at the events. I wondered how that could have went by me, because I have been reading on the threads. Skimming through......Someone is going to have to copy and paste for me. I can't imagine someone not wanting or expecting their picture to be taken with a dress up event and meeting people for the first time. How about conte and paper, to draw them? *rolls eyes*



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03:55:19 Jul 24 2008
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What's the deal with the no photos here? Is there a law being broken? There were pictures taken at the masquerade ball in Phoenix a couple years ago.



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04:05:52 Jul 24 2008
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I REALLY need some enlightenment here. This is making me feel like a child- and I don't get how a travel agency can ban photos being taken by this Vampire Rave meetup- this is a VR event, right? Did Cancer say we couldn't take pictures with our friends during this Ball?



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Morrigon
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04:16:44 Jul 24 2008
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I want to make it clear right now, in case anyone might get another idea, that Allgenre and I spoke in private and discussed me taking photos beforehand. She isn't saying that I can't do this.

However, being that this is causing frustration and some drama, I won't pressure my offer. I can take pictures elsewhere.



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Jamie
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04:18:34 Jul 24 2008
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Exactly, and if it's an issue by others, then let me hear it and let's take a vote of everyone that is going and all of us that are PAYING a LOT of money to get there and supposedly having fun. I want my rights to take photos. It steps on nobody to have their picture taken.



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04:23:47 Jul 24 2008
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Taking pictures with your friends 'at' the Ball is something that I am sure was assumed a given by all. The point is the 'setting'. I don't remember any of us having to sign a contract banning us from photos with our friends, so I can't see how someone can legally tell us no. I have never known a hotel to have this policy either. We always have our Marine Corps balls at the Hilton- now that is the government and the best known line of hotels in the nation that don't have this policy. Who's policy is it?

I am not trying to start a problem here, not at all. I just think these kind of things needs to be flagged and we may need to rethink our future meetups, because the first ball allowed photos and all the Admins including Cancer posted them in their journals a legal-like.



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Jamie
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04:29:17 Jul 24 2008
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I agree. It's not that I am trying to cause trouble. It's that it's not right to ban photography of each other in this unique setting and I don't see it as fair or legally right on whoever is trying to keep it banned. I have not found it anywhere on the main site or when I made reservations that it was banned. I don't recall seeing it as a state law. Images would know since she lives there.

So let's vote? I mean, we are all in this together basically, right, not ONE person. ?

I know I have had people asking me to post the pics from it on my profile so that they could see everyone all dressed up and having fun, because they could not be there.



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allgenre
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06:19:37 Jul 24 2008
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First there are about 4 threads missing from the the main forum where the picture taking was discussed. Unfortunately, there is nothing I can do on that.

2nd. this meetup is NOT being funded by VR. This meetup is being hosted by my agency for VR. Cancer contacted me about it at a later date to make it an official VR Meetup. But even Cancer is paying for his room.


There is no vote. There will be no picture taking inside the actual events of the ball or the party. Having hosted functions such as these in the past where people get drunk and do things out of the ordinary, I will not even risk a complaint filed against me because someones picture appeared on the internet of them doing something during what is supposed to be a closed and private event.

Simply, people also have the right to not have their picture taken JUST as many of you have the right to take them. However, There is a reason these events are for 18 and over. And no one wants to worry about having a camera pointed at them if they get to drunk or freaky. If people want their pictures taken, they are more then welcomed to do so outside the event areas themselves or out in the courtyard.

All Genre



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Jamie
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07:31:52 Jul 24 2008
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"This meetup is being hosted by my agency for VR."

Then it would have been really cool if they had paid for our rooms/the package. Then I could understand them trying to dictate. Why does a travel agency care? I know someone that worked at one. I will ask her if they are typically in the business of dictating one's actions.

Personally I am offended by drunkards that can't control themselves, so....will the agency do something about that, please? Drunk people either love cameras or don't even know their there. :s

There is a such thing as photographer's rights too. I read it in one of the journals on here. Have it copied somewhere.

Whatever. I am just very disappointed and offended, and it's noted now, putting in my 2 cents, and I am not the only one.

I am just going to try to concentrate on seeing New Orleans and the cemeteries.



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Jamie
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07:39:28 Jul 24 2008
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PS-- If Cancer is the one that requests no cameras, then that's different.



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allgenre
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08:54:06 Jul 24 2008
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You are talking about bringing camera's into two events that are 18 and over, and involved drinking. In all the chitter chatter - many people have been discussing some very adult behavior.


You do not have the right to take pictures of people like that during a closed private adult event.. and then post them on your journals or internet. You can take the pictures outside of the event in the courtyard. That is the compromise. Previously, no pictures were going to be allowed at all.

Neither am I willing for my agency to assume the liability of being sued. And it CAN be sued. You may have the right to take pictures - but other people also have their right to privacy. Now most clubs and venues I have been into, do not allow pictures to be taken given the type of clothing that is worn and the behavior that ensues after a few drinks. This is the same concept.

Now I have called Cancer and left him a message, and asked him to read over this thread and then touch base with me.

And as for assumption of costs, All Genre Travel footed a large portion of the catering bill as in the end, we didnt have the required number of people who booked into this meetup. So YES. I did pay for it since I own the agency. Nor did I ask Vampirerave to cover any single portion of the expense. So on that note, you are voicing opinions based on facts you do not have.

Thank you.
All Genre.



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12:57:11 Jul 24 2008
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I still don't get it. We are going to have a club night where we can't take pictures with our friends at the club? I had no intention of taking pictures with people who didn't want their photo taken- just my friends who want to be in a photo with me.

This was still something that has been brought to our attention less than 2 weeks prior to the event. There wasn't even any fine print about this in buying these tickets.

I have not edited or deleted anything in this forum- and Cancer has the ability to verify all edits made and by whom.

Every VR meeting in clubs or at the prior ball involved picture taking. Cancer has posted pictures in his journal each time. There has never been an issue with any VR member. And if I am not even on the 'Who's attending' page because I only have tickets to the events and not staying in the hotel- I honestly don't even feel part of this event, which is very sad. People look at that page to see who they will find at the ball and I am not there.

Things like this need to be very clear VERY EARLY on so people can choose not to purchase tickets in the future. But still, I am still not clear on how I would be breaking any policy by bringing my camera other than what you personally don't want. We signed no aggreements in getting these tickets.

I am not trying to have an argument. There are just problems here that need to be addressed. People are not happy.



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sahahria
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13:13:26 Jul 24 2008
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Here's the thing,

I get having to have rules to protect your liability.. however there are also forms called releases. My issue is not with photos being taken- as I really wanted to take many this trip, but with that we have not been told the rules from the get go.

On the travel agency page it should say:

1. no photographs allowed in events
2. credit card used for deposit will be charged in case of non-payment
etc.

None of these stipulations were made clear from the start, it was not until asked about them that they were presented in a rather defensive manner. I think everyone would be fine with the idea of the rules in place if they were clearly stated from the start, not mid or at the end of our planning stages.



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allgenre
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18:39:33 Jul 24 2008
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I have read this and will respond later. I have nothing positive to say at the moment that would not start an argument.



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xxEmaeraldxx
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20:26:52 Jul 24 2008
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I am not going to the New Orleans Meet-Up, but I am wondering..what is the difference between taking photographs on the Vampire Rave Cruise last year, and taking photographs this year in a hotel? Someone enlighten me please..

Will taking photographs on the Cruise Meet-Up 2009 be allowed?



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xxEmaeraldxx
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20:29:07 Jul 24 2008
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Hmm, I forgot to add, from memory weren't those Cruise photographs even posted in a thread orginated by yourself Allengre?



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allgenre
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21:15:22 Jul 24 2008
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To Clarify.

The gothic cruise was NOT, and is not, a Vampire Rave Cruise. The gothic cruise is NOT owned by Vampirerave. It is owned 100% by All Genre Travel. Vampirerave and Gothic Beauty are sponsors of the event.

The picture's thread I opened was of collected links by OTHER cruisers. All Genre Travel did NOT take a single picture and post it on vampirerave. There are a few photo's on the all genre myspace where CONSENTS were emailed to All Genre Travel to post them.

Pictures taken on a cruise ship differ from those taken at the meetup. The events of the meetup are held in a small contained area at a hotel. A cruise ship is not registered in the united states. The moment you step onboard, you are LEGALY in another country. Therefore, most picture taking is at will except during the private closed concerts, unless the bands consent to it.

For the purpose of the 2009 meetup cruise, picture taking IS allowed. Because it is in international waters, and cruise line policy prevails, people who do not want their picture taken, need to state so before someone snaps it - however there is nothing that All Genre Travel can do about it.

All Genre.



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xxEmaeraldxx
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21:28:47 Jul 24 2008
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Well really, there is no need to shout. You still have not addressed the concerns Members of Vampire Rave are having on their first Meet-Up on the original issue of photography.



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allgenre
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21:47:50 Jul 24 2008
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xxEmaeraldxx

I had already stated I would adress these concerns AFTER I speak with Cancer. Who has not yet returned my call.

All Genre.



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Scarlett
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23:51:01 Jul 24 2008
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Holy shit batman....
I think ill just head back to work rather then loafing around on vr....
This is just not so much fun...

jesus....hands all involved a riding crop and a shot of irish wiskey
*forget the video cameras this time i guess*



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05:02:29 Jul 25 2008
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Ok.... so you make it very clear that it is All Genre Travel mandating no pictures are to be taken, and has nothing to do with Vampire Rave. Then you go on to talk about the Goth Cruise, where pictures were allowed, and specifically mentioning that Vampire Rave was not officially affiliated with the cruise. I fully understand that for a large portion of the cruise the event was in international waters, but for some time while departing and returning the ship would have been in US waters, so the same liability issues would have been relevant. Yet, there is no mention of photography on the cruise being restricted to the times while the ship was in international waters. So, it would appear that this limitation has been placed specifically on this event, and not a carpet policy.

As such, anyone booking this trip should have been made aware of this prior to purchasing tickets. There was nothing mentioned of this on the booking form, or anywhere on allgenretravel.com. I also don't recall seeing anything in the forum prohibiting photography at the events either, however, a post in a discussion forum would not have been relevant to a business transaction between the customer and All Genre Travel.

Furthermore, after finding a link regarding photographer's rights in Morrigon's journal, I found this bit rather applicable,
"Members of the public have a very
limited scope of privacy rights when
they are in public places. Basically,
anyone can be photographed without
their consent except when they have
secluded themselves in places where
they have a reasonable expectation of
privacy such as dressing rooms, restrooms,
medical facilities, and inside
their homes."

"Absent a specific legal prohibition
such as a statute or ordinance, you are
legally entitled to take photographs."

And from another document I found,
"A “public place” means any enclosed, indoor area used by the general public or serving as a place of work.This includes private and social clubs such as the VFW, Moose, country clubs"


Judging from what I've seen, having not established a prohibition on photography when contracts were established, All Genre Travel has no legal right to restrict photography at these events.



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allgenre
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08:18:06 Jul 25 2008
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Thank you TD. However, I have spoken to our legal department, and I have also spoken to Cancer today regarding this "hot topic". Because the meetup is dubbed a "private" event, and is in private space the public cannot access, it falls into a grey area.

Cancer has told me that since my company has the liability that the final call comes down to me.

I have thought long and hard and discussed many options to try and make everyone happy - as there ARE people who have already told me they do NOT want their picture taken. I have to respect their rights as well. They are paying money to attend to.

So on that note - picture taking will be allowed during the dinners and the Masquerade ball. However, during the actual club night, picture taking will be confined to a designated area of the room since some clothing worn may be risque.


I want to state again, to everyone. There are those of you that want to take pictures, and those of you that are adament you do not want your picture taken. There is seriously no way to make everyone happy at this point.

It stands to reason, if someone does not want their picture taken - you need to not take it.

IN the event an unwanted picture finds its way onto the internet, All Genre Travel will not assume any liability whatsoever. That liability will rest soley and entirely on the shoulders of the photographer.


TD. as for the pictures of the gothic cruise. You were not there and you are totaly without all the facts. All Genre Travel certainly followed the letter of the law as did the gothic cruisers. All 220 of them. And with such a large crowd, we certainly did not have the problems with picture taking that is being experienced here. And as an FYI - there are times during the gothic cruise where picture taking is not allowed - and everyone is very respectful of that.


This is how it stands. I have tried to compromise as much as possible for both sides. Those who want to take pictures... and those who do not want camera's allowed. Obviously, it is a bit one sided - however, it was the fairest I could come up with.


As note. Many people do not like being photographed while actively eating. Please bear that in mind.

All Genre



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Scarlett
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16:37:11 Jul 25 2008
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Z, Only "Zombies" have issues being photographed while they "feed" ......
:)

ScarEdit: I forgot "mummies" too....


All Genre Edit: Words in " " were Edited.



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xxEmaeraldxx
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17:13:12 Jul 25 2008
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LMAO Scarlett!! *chases you with her riding crop, and dram o' irish whiskey*

Thanks, Allengre forr your response and tryng your best for everyone anyway. It is good a compromise of sorts could be worked out :)



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Drakontion
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22:37:55 Jul 25 2008
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Ok I debated actually putting a comment in here in case something else escalated, but here goes.

I'm glad the photo debacle has been more or less resolved. However I think the above comment about fat chicks and faggots is completely offensive, rude and unacceptable. For the record, yes I am a fat chick, and also something of a faggot, and personally I couldn't give a flying whatever whether I'm photographed while eating. Everyone does it, whether they're fat, faggotty or not.

I think the above comment should be deleted or at least edited. If anyone has anything to say to me feel free to message me directly.



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NightBlossom
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03:41:16 Jul 26 2008
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You know, I'm not the skinniest chick on the planet. Top it off, I'm getting a baby belly from being pregnant. On top of that, I consider myself a fag trapped in a womans body and I was NOT offended by that comment in the least. If you know Scar, you know she's joking around.


If you people have a problem with what is being said, message the person about it directly. Don't bring it out here, out of topic and annoying to piss off those of us that are just debating the topic at hand.

On top of all that, we've taken a thread about Morrigon's kindness to take pictures and turned it into this. Sure it's corny and overused but if we can't all get along, I see no reason why ANYONE should sponsor or help out with a VampireRave meet up ever again.

The debates and conversations and arguements have gone beyond excessive. We're getting our pictures, we've all settled on an agreement of places they shouldn't be taken. We've all pretty well decided that if someone says no to a picture we will not be taking it. We should be grateful that Morrigon is bringing her camera in the first place and that Allgenre isn't shutting it down without refunds.
Now...stop arguing before you kill ToiletDuc's baby and he suspends you all.



All Genre Edit: Edited to reduce the hostilities of this thread.



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Drakontion
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04:43:09 Jul 26 2008
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Ok first of all, don't crucify me for being the last person in a long line of people expressing their malcontent. I don't know Scarlett, and that's precisely the way I reacted the way I did. The fact that I reacted the way I did to her comment shows that it is a hurtful and inciting one. Maybe I'm not the only person to think so, but I was the only person who responded. I'm sure if I were going to be banned, or whatever, I would have been so by now, since I have already been visited. I'd also like to add that I in no way have caused drama by pointing out that I considered an already made comment to be offensive and asking for it to be edited or deleted. I have been nothing but supportive of this entire endeavour since it started, however I have to admit I am seriously starting to reconsider it all now.



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EverythingGoesSour
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07:04:17 Jul 26 2008
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I just got done running down this entire Thread, reading from top to bottom... And honestly, being as I will attend the VR Meetup, I'd like to say a few things.

Morrigon.. Right on for offering to take pictures like you did. That was the best comment I heard through this entire thing. It was very nice of you, and it is unfortunate that everything got whipped around into a froth like this. Kudos for the offer... and if it still stands, I'd definately not mind getting a snapshot with Z and I. Memorabilia is the only thing that keeps people like me rememberin' the good times. =D

As for the rest of the debris flying around for the rest of the thread(till now, mwahahahah)... Just... let it go. We're all going to be seeing eachother real soon, and there isn't any point in getting this worked up! Take some deep breaths, and chant a mantra. Something along the lines of, " Oooommmmmmmmm Laws and Rights always get debated Oooommmmmm All it does is get everyone exasperated ooooommmmm." Root yourself and have a nice little relaxe fest.

Hopefully the photography issues is solved now!!!!

Scarlet.. O.o M'dear m'dear.. o.O Sooo looking forward to boozing with ya again! =D This is gunna be so awesome!

So, come'on people!! Feeeeel the dark, oozing love of the macabre and neurotic! Slamdance under the black rays of our collective Darkest Burning Star! And.. take pictures!! Woot!



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sahahria
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22:19:33 Jul 26 2008
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Back on topic folks... a solution was found and posted, let's move forward...


I know that I'm all excited about the chance to have at least one photo taken of Heidi, Morri and I and not have it be from my crappy ass camera :P



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allgenre
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00:22:15 Jul 27 2008
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I have one of those crappy ass camera's myself. :( And its not even a year old yet.. but its already outdated!

::mutters about technology conspirators::

Sahahria edit: OMG mine too, bastids!! They are out to get us O.o



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xxEmaeraldxx
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The House of Umbrae Octo is a member of an Alliance

Member of The House of Umbrae Octo
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
08:13:42 Jul 27 2008
Read 2,472 times

No crappy camera's please! The nearest I am going to get to this meeting is looking at the photographs! Well, that is unless you want to set up "live video" Allgenre *grins* heh!



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allgenre
allgenre
Ophidian (66)
Posts: 151
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Hell (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
23:03:37 Jul 27 2008
Read 2,454 times

I so dont have the equipment for that.



•  REPLY  •


15:50:08 Jul 28 2008
Read 2,434 times

Sahahria, you can take a pic with me no doubt.

And, I am a fat chic... also a gay man in a woman's body.



•  REPLY  •


sahahria
sahahria

No Longer Registered
16:42:34 Jul 28 2008
Read 2,432 times

HA! Me too on both accounts :P only if you caught me without clothes you would run for two reasons:

1. Muh big fat hairy arse
2. WHITE skin @.@ I glow, without any tan... seriously I glow...



•  REPLY  •


CryingMist
CryingMist
Royal Sire (212)
Posts: 73
Honor: 39
[ Give / Take ]
Mind Bender (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Mind Bender (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
19:35:34 Jul 28 2008
Read 2,423 times

*rise eye brow* glowing skin? *calls x-files agent Mulder and Scully* I think we have a live one ...french quarter new orlean on august 1 and 2.

*hung up and goes sit silently*

-------Discailmer, if anyone take my picture Ia m not responsible for the broken lense, sudden fear and nightmares Thank you! --------------

oh but you cans till take my pic...if you want to...no obligation.

*runs to pharmacy to get the anti-pimple cream* please I nead a gallon at elast of the strongest stuff you got Pharmacist



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Jamie
Jamie
Sire (103)
Posts: 32
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
09:27:57 Jul 29 2008
Read 2,413 times

Pick me up some thigh cream while you're at it. :P hahaha........

I just went to Walmart and cleaned out both cameras for pictures. ;)



•  REPLY  •


CryingMist
CryingMist
Royal Sire (212)
Posts: 73
Honor: 39
[ Give / Take ]
Mind Bender (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Mind Bender (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
09:30:33 Jul 29 2008
Read 2,410 times

Oh and also some tigh cream for a felow vampire...I mean for Jamie.....
*sends telegraphe* Anyone needs stuff from the pharmacy?



•  REPLY  •


EverythingGoesSour
EverythingGoesSour
Apparition (36)
Posts: 0
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Limbus Patrum (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Limbus Patrum (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
22:02:52 Jul 29 2008
Read 2,401 times

No Dose, Three cases of Gause, q-tips, Midol, and some Icey Hot for me.

O.o
o.O

GO ahead.. I dare ya to ask what for...

=D



•  REPLY  •


NightBlossom
NightBlossom
Sire (106)
Posts: 0
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of The House of Nocturnal Retribution
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
03:34:46 Jul 31 2008
Read 2,384 times

Don't worry, you're not alone. I glow in the dark as well.



•  REPLY  •



• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by allgenre on Aug 06 2008  •

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