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Looking on Yahoo News today, the article titled "Drone Surveillance come to the U.S". Here's the link http://news.yahoo.com/pressure-builds-civilian-drone-flights-home-150120049.html
Already used by the US Army in war-zones such as Afghanistan, unmanned drones are about to be used by police departments, border patrols and even power companies. These remote-controlled planes can be equipped with high powered cameras, heat sensors and even weapons (they have been used to kill “terrorists” in the Middle-East) to track, monitor and potentially wreck havoc on groups or specific individuals. Although not yet used in the US their use on domestic soil is pretty much an inevitability. For example, the ShadowHawk, a drone conceived by the company Vanguard, greatly interests US law-enforcement groups for its weapon-bearing qualities. Its “international” version can be equipped with a 40mm grenade launcher and a 12-guage shotgun – all of this can be controlled from a laptop computer. As a recent report from the ACLU states, unmanned drones in US domestic soil would represent “a large step closer to a surveillance society in which our every move is monitored, tracked, recorded, and scrutinized by the authorities”.
So what do you say? Are we moving into the Big Brother society or what?

"When the government fears the people you have Liberty,
when the people fear the government yo have tyranny,
when injustice becomes law, Rebellion becomes Duty!"
~ Thomas Jefferson.

I think that pretty much sums it up my response to that.

Although I guess I'll tack on something else. Are we moving closer and closer to totalitarianism in the US every day. According to the FBI if you pay in cash vs a credit card you may be suspect of terrorism and shop owners should record your license plate number and description.

Didn't know that. Seems everything is being recorded as we live in the "snitch" society. Which in my opinion, is playing on human suspicion which can cause meltdowns, wars and death. Also plays on human desperation and exclusivity as a person looking for revenge can "snitch" on you or someone desperate to earn brownie points can "snitch". Reminds me a bit of the movie Total Recall.

somebdy could hack the drone and use it for their own purposes.

Personally, I like the idea. I do not mind my actions being monitored as I don't do anything that might cause suspicion.

Then again, maybe I do and should be watched. lol

So you are advocating safety and security is more important than freedom? Just a question.

Yes. Although your question is confusing. You have freedom without safety and security?

Anyday. Cause I can provide my own security its called the 2nd amendment.

Sorry I thought you asked if I wanted freedom without security. We have enough security but no security is as good as the security you can provide yourself.

Oh sorry, I thought the thread was discussing national security as opposed to personal security.

Freedom is something we own as individuals and we can provide our own security with freedom. I'd much rather have the ability to have gun on a plane & kill a terrorist than leave it up to the the government to handle. Besides, an airplane is private property, it doesn't belong to society, it's up to the company to keep you safe and if you don't like it don't use em.

When did free men abandon the only thing that makes life worth living for the false perception of government sponsored safety.

What happens with the gov itself becomes the enemy? Ever heard of something called the Constitution?

Can't you follow the logic trail to its conclusion? The only way we can all be safe is if there's a camera in every room, every purchase is monitored, you need a license to have anything that could potentially be a weapon, and you must surrender your rights to the all mighty wisdom of the government and hope they don't mess up.

"Save me, save me, save me" The call of the victim.

Give me liberty or give me death. Kinda says it all. Without liberty you have death, DUH! Hitler, Communism, N. Korea etc...all in the name of "defending the nation". Screw the nation, my life and my family matters more than you and YOUR family matters more than mine. We take care of ourselves..that evil "responsibility"...and gov should do only what we can't or refuse to do for ourselves.

Well, I guess I am wrong then. People like Tim McVey (sp) don't need monitoring.

I'm sure all the people in the Oklahoma building thought they could defend themselves as well.

@Shadow Yes the thread was put up to discuss national security but personal security is apart of this as well. After all, most are citizens of the state and while we still have our personal freedoms which are hanging on by a thread. Personal freedom, survival and dictate is more important than any government dictate or surveillance cameras.

if the drones come here ww3 will end up starting bc if they can be controled across the world someone is gonna hack them all and then were wasting money building them to be hacked and killing innocents

The OKC bombing was in a federal building thus it's the job of the federal gov to protect it. Great job they did.

So few people understand the concept of Constitutional government and self responsibility. Even fewer give a dang.

Anyone who expects total security is a fool. That's not a person attack but an absolute truth.

"The OKC bombing was in a federal building thus it's the job of the federal gov to protect it."

I was refering to the people in the building, not who owns the property. Which by the way is a Federal building owned by the people. Thus, the people (citizens) failed to protect it.

I mean if we really have a government by the people, for the people.

Honestly though, I think we have gotten off track here.

If law enforcement agencies begin to use drones as opposed to putting officers in harms way, I am all for it.

As far as my personal freedoms hanging on by a thread, I've never noticed it.

Are we moving into a "big brother" society? Personally, I don't care.

Moving???? We have been a big brother society for a long time! From here on the pols will just try to exert more and more control over the citizenry.

Were you not watching when that fool Bush was in the White House? The lies, the coverups, the so-called free speech zones? Once upon a time the whole country was a free speech zone!

You don't seem to understand what the federal government is. At any rate I'm glad the "Vote for Drones' group is a tiny minority. I do care about my freedoms and would rather take the risk than hand it over to a government that has failed time and time again to keep us safe, remain within the confines of the Constitution (which is law just in case you didn't know) and has been a constant source of massive waste and inefficiencies.

On a slightly dif note, this does seem to be more political than anything and political threads aren't allowed in the main forum. Of course the admins do give a bit of leeway at times so we'll see if this thread lasts or not.

@Zxavier Does this thread really seem political? Now that I think of it, it does a bit. Which the mention of Constitutional Rights, Federal Government and all. Let's pray the thread lasts lol.

I definitely see and agree with your point of view. If it turns into a Big Brother thing then I do agree there will be a lot of problems. We don't need someone watching our every move, there's already enough of our lives that are currently monitored. And I already see ww3 starting. Anyone else noticed a pattern? There are a lot of boys being born right now. I see that as a sign that there will be another war their generation.

Well, I'm currently working towards joining the Air Force so I can work with the Drones, or UAVs. Plus, I am aspiring to work for the Border Patrol after that. And, honestly, I have no issue with this matter. Especially the fact that they're going to be used with the Border Patrol. If you didn't actually know this, it's not anything new, as the Air Force has been providing service like this to the Border Patrol for years without incident. It's so they can better monitor our nation's borders. I don't know about you, but living on a border state, I totally approve of not being over run by drug traffickers, people traffickers, murders and the like. The drones will help keep a more watchful eye in the areas that may not be easy access for other vehicles.

The nonsense about the US becoming a Big Brother state is just that, nonsense. You still have your rights and your freedoms given to you via the Constitution. No one is taking that away. But you're bitching because people want to better protect themselves and the citizens of this country? Please, spare me. It's ridiculous.

Why the anger in your post? You advocate machines over humanity means that you will be used as a pawn. That means you advocate security over personal freedoms and that's fine because that's your opinion. But to say someone is bitching denotes that it angers you which means something in your psyche that your trying to deny.

The belief that the government will save us is quite widespread but I ask this, what if the government turns on its own people? Security in the present is fine but you must also think of future application. Imagine a world where a drone fires a missile into a crowd of protesters. After all why have police boots on the ground. Also if vehicles cant get to that location how are the drones going to be used by border control after all surveillance is useless without people in range to act on the information. These are all things one must consider.

FYI about the border I believe we should take the same measures Mexico takes on its southern border which is shoot first and ask questions later. So don't label me as one that wants unsecured borders.

Rights aren't being taken away? Ever heard of the Patriot Act and the NDAA Obama recently signed?

The purpose of all government is to serve us and to fear us, not the other way around. I do not belong to the federal government, I do not answer to it nor am I controlled by it except for the extremely limited areas specifically spelled out in the Constitution.

I am a citizen of Tennessee first, the US last. We're a nation of nation states (as described in the Treaty of Paris 1783, Article 1). By the way, Article 1 is the only part of the treaty which is still law.

It's great that you want to join the military but remember your oath isn't to the current federal government, it's to the Constitution and all things are subordinate to it. Both the Constitution and Declaration of Independence are applicable laws and they give the people rights and freedoms first & foremost. Then the States and lastly the federal gov. In fact the Constitution is a documents of limitations, not a document of total power for the central governments. And both of those allow for the people to take and do extraordinary things to preserve their liberties, no matter how much or little they *are* or are perceived to be in danger.

This Interview has the base of both ends of the stick. Predator drones used overseas and their possible application here.

The feelings are the same for both sites (Foreign & Domestic)

You'll get the gist of the above comment once you get to the last few responses by Rumsfeld.



By: Dr. Kevin Barrett - Veterans Today Military & Foreign Affairs Journal - Columnist

I was lucky enough to catch up with Donald Rumsfeld, former Secretary of Defense, at the Edward Teach Memorial Golf Course and Scuba Diving Facility outside of Kingston, Jamaica. Rummy had hit two horrible shots in a row, badly slicing both of his balls, and was in a foul mood.

Interviewer:
Hey Rummy, you aim golf balls even worse than predator drones!

Rumsfeld:
Watch out, asshole, or I’ll aim one at you.

Interviewer:
If you did, I’d be the safest guy on the fairway.

Rumsfeld:
There are known knowns, known unknowns, unknown knowns, and unknown unknowns. You’re an unknown unknown. Bug off.

Interviewer:
Actually, I wanted to ask you a few questions about predator drones.

Rumsfeld: (chuckling)
You don’t say! That happens one of my favorite topics. After all, I pioneered them! Obama uses them more than we did, so he gets the Nobel Peace Prize! Is that unfair, or what?

(The rest of the interview was conducted intermittently, between the 9th and 11th holes.)

Interviewer:
You introduced the practice of so-called targeted killings with predator drones. Aren’t predator drones both immoral and ineffective?

Rumsfeld:
How do you mean?

Interviewer:
They’re immoral for a couple of reasons. First, the predator drone is the ultimate coward’s weapon. Some chicken-shit asshole at a military base outside of Las Vegas sits around jerking off playing video games, and real people get blown to bits, murdered and maimed, halfway around the world.

Rumsfeld:
That’s the beauty of it.

Interviewer:
I thought the whole point of being a soldier was risking your life for your country.

Rumsfeld:
We’re not soldiers. We’re chickenhawks! (imitates clucking chicken) Awk-puk-puk!

Interviewer:
Seriously, Rummy: Isn’t killing from a safe distance, thousands of miles from the people you kill, the act of a despicable coward?

Rumsfeld:
Absolutely not! It takes almost unimaginable courage to operate a killer drone.

Interviewer:
How is that?

Rumsfeld:
All of the great wisdom traditions tell us that there is justice in the universe. It takes immense courage to do something as absolutely evil as operating a predator drone, knowing that God or karma or whatever may some day pay you back.

Interviewer:
Hmmm…I hadn’t thought of it that way. But I guess you have a point.

Rumsfeld:
Of course I do! Come on, think about it. Killing people with a predator drone is vastly sicker and uglier and more despicable and disgusting than raping and murdering people the way Ted Bundy did. At least Ted had the guts to look his victims in the eyes, and take a chance they might fight back. Doing something of such ultimate evil requires incredible courage, knowing that if the universe does indeed turn out to be just, you’re absolutely screwed. I’m proud of our men and women in uniform who have the guts to be evil scumbags a million times worse than the sickest civilian serial killer!

Interviewer:
Okay, I have to admit you have a point. But even if we admit that the scumbags operating the drones have a certain amount of metaphysical courage, isn’t it the case that these weapons are completely ineffective? Just about every on-the-ground investigation of every predator drone attack has found that it’s innocent civilians, not terrorists, who are getting blown up. Women and children, wedding parties, groups of old men having tea. This just pisses off the enemy and increases his will to fight. Not a smart tactic.

Rumsfeld:
Smart military tactic or no, sometimes you just have to do what’s right.

Interviewer:
What’s right!? We’re talking about blowing up innocent civilians!

Rumsfeld:
Exactly.

Interviewer:
What’s right about that?

Rumsfeld:
Think about it. When an aggressor invades somebody else’s country, the people of that country have two choices: They can either fight back, or they can choose not to fight back.

Interviewer:
So?

Rumsfeld:
So the decent ones, the brave ones, the ones whose lives are worth a good goddamn – in other words, the ones who deserve to live – are the ones who fight back. We call them “terrorists.”

Interviewer:
Um…

Rumsfeld:
While those who choose not to fight back are, by definition, worthless, cowardly scum – the kind of creeps and quislings who allow their country to be invaded and occupied by foreigners from halfway around the world, and don’t lift a finger to stop it.

Interviewer:
I think I see where you’re going with this…

Rumsfeld:
So when we slaughter so-called “innocent civilians” with our predator drones, we’re actually killing people who are worthless, cowardly scum. The brave ones, the ones who are fighting back, we avoid. So we’re really doing the right thing, even at the expense of our own interests. How can you argue with that?

At this point Rumsfeld hooked a ball fifty yards into the ganja field bordering the fairway, disappeared into the field, and, as far as I know, never re-emerged.

I have being waiting for this for long time. Let use our technology to fight crime, here, inside the U.S.. and not abroad. The Drone, will not be used to spy in normal citizen, but only in those who are the parasites of our society.