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"Animal-Human Hybrids Spark Controversy"
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DarknessBound
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03:02:40 Jan 28 2005
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ok i hope this is interesting enough for you guys, as it was for me.

as i was doing some research for my sociology class i came across this interesting yet controversial article.


-"Scientists have begun blurring the line between human and animal by producing chimeras—>a hybrid creature that's part human, part animal."


what they do & have done....


-"Chinese scientists at the Shanghai Second Medical University in 2003 successfully fused human cells with rabbit eggs. The embryos were reportedly the first human-animal chimeras successfully created. They were allowed to develop for several days in a laboratory dish before the scientists destroyed the embryos to harvest their stem cells."



this topic causes many ethical issues as well as religious, etc...scientists have started to tamper with biotechnology to not only to create new species, but also they are violating the laws of nature....



- "One doesn't have to be religious or into animal rights to think this doesn't make sense," said biotechnology activist Jeremy Rifkin. "It's the scientists who want to do this. They've now gone over the edge into the pathological domain."-


what do you guys think?...should it be done or not? if so, why?




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Daermon
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09:24:38 Jan 28 2005
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ok folks.... thing ill take an unpopular road on this one.....I know i'm going to get blasted so i'll be wearing a radiation blast suit for this one..
this is simply an ethics topic.....the term "laws" of nature does not apply...if it did then natures laws would simply assert themselves and the eggs would not fertilize....
this type of science is always going to push boundaries.....it is the fringes...that is what scientific research is all about....but what bothers you more.....that they are doing combinant genetics....or that they are using human DNA.....we as humans tend to place ourselves above the rest of the earth and all it's multi billions of other species.....what gives us this right? Nothing but ego.....I care not what all the philosophy's and religions say.....we are not above the world...we are part of it.....so if we are going to experiment...then we ought to not be exempt from said experiments.....after all it likely is with some purpose for man in mind anyways.....but anyways the concept is by no means a new one.... for years there has been research into combinants..or chimera's as I guess they are being termed...a few years back they combined some jellyfish dna into a monkey fetus to create a monkey that produces the glow in the dark chemicals of a jelly fish from it's skin...perfectly healthy other than a greenish glow.....
I am not saying it is good science....but remember without people who redefine what is good or bad science we would still most likely be bronze age....medical science was formed through people breaking barriers on what is acceptable.....for example...sharks are 100% immune to cancer....why?if we find the right genetic strain or enzyme...we combine it with humans.....BANG ....cancer immune people....it is a far strech...but that is where I see this type of science going...or hey who hasn't thought it would be wondeerful to have wings or gills...to swim into the depths without bulky equiptment.....but in these fantasies did you think of the amount of research that would go into it.....the number of failed mutations that would happen in perfecting the process.....
it is just science.....not good science maybe...but who knows,
maybe that first child that is immune to cancer or polio....or some other nasty disease would disagree with you on that.....
not saying I agree with it....
just saying look deeper at it than the locked door of ethics may show


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Deity
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17:37:20 Jan 28 2005
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ethics is relative. What one individual deems "unethical" might not be the same for another. It all boils down to what affect that project might have on you. Every one has their own agenda. If this has no effect on a person or their family they will obviously be appaled at the mere thought. On the other hand, if this research might help families suffering from cancer stricken relatives, they will be awe struck at the mere thought of a possible cure.

People will inevitably pull their resources to their own convinience.



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apparitionknight
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07:12:21 Feb 02 2005
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next they will be cloning Jesus Christ Idiots these scientists are



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Daermon
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07:45:59 Feb 02 2005
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and why not clone christ....he who was a great man who wanted love and peace for the world
it is christians who have caused the wars...not christ himself
I have long felt that he himself would be disgusted and appauled by the things done in his name....
so why not I ask



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apparitionknight
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09:09:36 Feb 02 2005
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then it would not be christ it would be a copy with no soul or different soul different conscience perhaps even an anti-christ



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Daermon
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12:49:04 Feb 02 2005
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that depends on your definition of what a soul is......
I feel that every living thing has a soul...a clone is still granted life by the same forces as all other life....all man has done is learned to manipulate the form.....a clone still has it's own life to live
and it's own life experiances to mold who and/or what it becomes in life,I do not believe that one is born good or evil....
I believe that the events of our lives....or the bio and chemical conditions of our brain mass form who we are.
Some people just have a little misplaced wiring....it's called mutation, and nature does it just as well and frequently as scientists do
good and evil are concepts that we have formed to govern our lives and are totally subjective to each individuals understanding of them



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apparitionknight
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20:19:42 Feb 02 2005
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none the less it wont be the same soul as the original Christ. Different soul different conscience. Different thought process = dangerous outcomes



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DarknessBound
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00:46:31 Feb 03 2005
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One pro often cited for human and organ cloning is the possible termination of deadly illnesses since further advancements in science although controversial will eventually perfect the techniques that will benefit human beings economically, physically and socially..
Organ cloning could result in lives saved. but this becomes not only of ethical concern throughout the world but also religion is very much in the depths of this matter. Not only that but politics is also included (when is it not?)...sen. Christopher Dodd a democrat from Conn. supports organ cloning as he said in a statement given that he supports it 100%, as do many others.
there is also another positive aspect of cloning that which is helping infertile couples have children (the creation of life). according to research about 2.8 million U.S. couples are infertile if not even more and with treatment, they will have the ability to conceive. there is third advantage to cloning which is replicating skin and nerve cells to repair damaged ones or to replace non-existent ones and although this research is still in its prime phase, it shows great promise and much hope for the human race. Despite the controversy about human cloning, these benefits and many others stimulate the country's desire to develop cures for the ill; they also foster hopes for further progress and research concerning the advancement of science for the well being of our species....(or so they say as an excuse to make it alright?)
genetic engineering, bioplastic enginnering (sp?), and cloning may seem like a good idea, the subject generates many ethical and scientific concerns (as we widely see). Though the pursuit of science is noble in its entity, we must not lose sight of the complications of such endeavors (such as the creation of chimearas (sp?)). Spokesman for National Academy of Sciences Bruce Albert speaks on this subject also echoing the opinions of most leading scientists in the matter calling it a very risky procedure. He says attention must be paid to the issues surrounding human cloning in both a practical and human sense. Among others,the primary concerns with human cloning are ofcourse money, medical dangers (as it very well should), and moral and ethical consequences (many think ethics shouldnt be of concern since right should always prevail but that is not that case with mad scientists). The pursuit of such research and testing does not come without a premium. Extensive government spending would likely be required to fund in-depth genetic research. there is also the most important matter of all, whether the population as a whoile supports it, and this is where we come to some problems...surveys have shown over and over that taxpayers are not very happy with the idea and that most would rather use government money for issues such as environment and relieving the country's debt (understandable)
Now, speaking of taxpayers (we, the people), the benefits of cloning would likely not be available to the lower-income Americans (which is very typical), giving an advantage to the wealthy American citizens (isnt that always the case?). The enormous cost of genetic engineering would not allow those without the means to afford such procedures, and here is where one of the problem lies.

The cost of genetic engineering goes far beyond monetary value and it also involves a cost to humankind, since we are playing with forces not yet mastered..the concern was pointed out to the high risk of genetic defects arising from cloning...as we have seen with various attempts such as Dolly the sheep (and recently Scientists in Texas have successfully cloned a cat and sold it for 50,000 to a woman in Dallas, as well as human babies clones in Europe?? i forgot where i read this baby article...it was last year). Such defects would not only effect the life of the clone, but they also could spread to the global gene pool and this is not good. The American Medical Association's Council on Ethical and Judicial Affairs has reported that "Human cloning could irreversibly alter the gene pool and exacerbate genetic problems that arise from deleterious genetic mutations, resulting in harm to future generations."...as it very well should be of concern....in addition, the dangers involve the lives of unsuccessful clones. For every succeessful animal clone, thre have been over 300 fetal deaths...*very wrong!*. The loss of life would be astronomical!!!!!!

Perhaps the most significant controversy surrounding human cloning involves basic human morals and ethics, not everyone is in accordance with the issues at hand. Most people feel in creating life, we take on the role of the creator and are in a sense, playing God... Human cloning raises the issues of whether cloned persons would in fact be considered "human" or whether they would deserve the same human rights. This question opens the door to a multitude of violations against humanity (thus the debates whether a clone should also have rights, but who are we to do that? IT IS another life, whether we created it or not!). The moral ground on which our society stands has already been loosened, and the confusion resulting from the existence of human clones would only add to our current moral dilemma (an exhausting situation)...

The future of genetic engineering and human cloning appears to be in much question. The legal process is both challenging and highly complex. While the courts will find outlawing genetic research to be difficult because it involves many branches of experimental medicine, passing any laws regarding human cloning and genetic engineering seems unlikely as well, due to the moral and ethical issues raised. mainly because of influences by religious values and secondly by cultural ideas.

However, the outlook suggests that organ cloning will progress simply because of the enormous potential health benefits and large public support. Because there should theoretically be no chance of rejection of cloned organs by the host body (because it would be compatible...most people wait years and eventually die before they can find a compatible organ or something their body can actually tolerate), immunosuppressive drugs would not have to be administered, and the number of deaths that occur after transplants would be greatly reduced. Looking further into the future, genetic engineering will continue to be an issue of global significance(whether we like it or not), as all who are involved with medical advancement will discover it to be very difficult to control.


-------------
as for the Jesus of Nazareth (most commonly known as Jesus Christ) comment, i dont see how that would be possible if we haven't yet found any trace of his existance except of the writings in the bible and the Shroud of Turnin (which is still being tested by the way because ever carbon 14 dating ever done is always challenged by enviromental factors or other issues...by the way the shroud is one of the most tested objects in history! *just thought id throw that in*)...but if lets say that were to happen...i would believe it'd be him physically, but spiritually it'd be another different person....and about that anti-christ comment....itd be ironic if we create our own anti-christ dont you think?


and like its said
these are my $0.02

~_^



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apparitionknight
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08:19:03 Feb 03 2005
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DarknessBound

First of all i mean no offence but i have to ask are you a liberal democrat
cause most taxpayers just want the government to stay out of the peoples bussiness and the federal gov to protect our country.

second, as for cloning clone parts off animals --not humans its unethical you cant justify it and as far as kids go its a copy of yourself

third as far as christ goes they can get the dna off the spear which they do have or the nails which they also have its just not public knowledge


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DarknessBound
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02:43:32 Feb 04 2005
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no discussion of my political affiliations. =)

anyway, im a little puzzled...so..
how do u know they have the spear and nails ? do u know this as a fact ?
first, that was thousands of ago, how can they have a spear with his blood (DNA) when they crucified Jesus thinking he was a crazy person claiming to be the messiah?? the probably used that spear on many other people as well. as for the nails, rust is a chemical reaction that occurs over the years especially thousands of years, so i doubt the blood of jesus would've been able to outlast those conditions and still be deemed ad "usable" for cloning...when in the OJ trial, the blood sample that would have incriminated him was unusable (sp?) for being out on the sun for just hours..so i doubt that jesus's blood on those nails and that spear can be usuable after all that time. its difficult to explain to you in scientific terms, but its not possible unless a sample of his blood was maintained in the right temprerature and conditions until now.



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Daermon
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03:02:34 Feb 04 2005
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k...as far as they know they MAY have found the spear.....at least they have found A spear which the catholic church does consider a holy relic....
as to the nails.....unlikely on the best of days....
and thirdly....as darkness said....dna used in cloning technology need to be living and fresh....not contaminated scrapings off a 2000+ year old iron/bronze weapon.
this is real science we are talking here....not an arnold shwarzenegger movie..



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apparitionknight
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03:53:19 Feb 04 2005
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I am talking real cloning (dont you guys ever watch csi) They can do it using stemcell technology and the age of the dna does not matter they cloned a mammoth. didnt they?



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apparitionknight
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03:53:22 Feb 04 2005
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I am talking real cloning (dont you guys ever watch csi) They can do it using stemcell technology and the age of the dna does not matter they cloned a mammoth. didnt they?



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apparitionknight
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03:57:39 Feb 04 2005
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not to mention geneome research this can be done and i dont mean any offence to your politics by asking it just seamed apparent in your writing.



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DarknessBound
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04:33:04 Feb 04 2005
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they TRIED to clone the mammoth, only because his DNA was conserved within the ICE, under temperature...the jesus cloning issue, i dont think can scientifically be done since they didnt preserve his blood within measurable temperatures...

"Scientists hoping to clone prehistoric woolly mammoths are preparing
their first frozen DNA samples in a bid to revive the species.

The specimens of bone marrow, muscle and skin were unearthed last August
in the Siberian tundra where they had been preserved in ice for thousands
of years."

"So far, no cells bearing cloning-quality DNA have been found. The initial
plan called for finding mammoth sperm cells, which could be used to
inseminate a modern day elephant and create a mammoth-elephant hybrid. But
no sperm cells have been found, and other samples retrieved during
previous excavations, including legs buried under permafrost, have turned
out to be left unusable by time and climate changes.

Dr Irytani was more hopeful about their samples, estimated at 20,000 years
old, saying they had been well preserved in the ground at about -20C"

Mammoth Cloning Attempt



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DarknessBound
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05:07:42 Feb 04 2005
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also...
Even assuming a DNA sample from Jesus could be found on the Shroud of Turin, or the spear, or the nails, or anything else.. for example, it would almost certainly be worthless for genetic engineering. Jesus died 2,000 years ago; his DNA would now be degraded. Genes slowly break down if a living body does not preserve them. The "genetic fingerprint" tests that courts are beginning to use to assess guilt or innocence are tests that look only for a short "genetic marker,". Degraded DNA can be scanned for some kinds of molecular information, but not to recover the Genoma itself... no technology present or anticipated can make it usable again.
Supposing that through science you could overcome the actual impossible scientific barriers and reproduce a baby with an exact duplicate of Jesus' genetic structure, you still would not have Jesus the Christ, the Only son of God. All you'd have is a physical look-alike, but not His Soul and Divinity... What a person is, personality, character, and in this special case of Jesus, His Divine Being, does not come from genetic structure only; it comes also from experience and environment, learning, culture, and in this very special case of Jesus Christ (as we have said before in the soul comment)
What about from the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano where there is the Blood and Flesh of Jesus?... Again, no technology present or anticipated can make it... and if ever possible at all it will be just a replica of the physical body of Jesus, not Jesus the Christ.







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DarknessBound
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05:26:58 Feb 04 2005
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no offence taken my dear.
just, politics cant be discussed and i really dont want to get scolded...so, lets leave it at that

;)

*huggies*

^_^



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apparitionknight
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06:24:25 Feb 04 2005
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Im not scolding you lol



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DarknessBound
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07:05:15 Feb 04 2005
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hehe not you, the mods for speaking politics, its a no no...anyway...

anything else about this topic you have some insight we can discuss? =)



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