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Some in Occult and Metaphysics insist that it is a gift, that a person is born with. Others state that it can be taught, with a discipleship, or apprenticeship.

What do you accept, and why? What sources have you read that guided you to your conclusion?

Am not sure if 2 many people have read much to guide them to their conclusion. I think what some think to be real may be based on something they want to believe. I have read alot, actually, of metaphysics but still try to draw my own conclusions with my screen door.
What do I accept? What I feel in my heart to be real. My own knowing. Never pushed on anyone, never preached on, only a quiet knOwing.
I do personally think that if someone pushes a belief on someone they have insecurities in that belief, and are seeking others to support them.

Of course it can be taught...Anything can be taught. Whether or not the teacher is qualified and the student has the ability to learn is another story.

As for the abilities coming naturally, this is as well a fact. I was born with certain instincts that come with the territory of my background. These instincts are intune with the Occult system as well as Metaphysical belief. I call them belief because some within society take metaphysics with a grain of salt since they would carry on with a more scientific point of view.

I accept the philosophical path. Since this path is the closest that connects everything without contradicting anything. No sources have guided my decisions, save for some intellectual individuals I have conversations with that are intune with the philosophical standpoint and can carry on in a mature fashion and not loose as step.

Eh, live and let learn.

The common underlying motive of those who insist that such abilities are gifts limited to bloodlines.. Is narrowing the competition potential.

Example " spiritualist mediums" compete with those who hold seminars.


Most metaphysics collectives are split into factions, on who qualifies for what.

~Dabbler~ I seem to be lost, I do believe that your motivation for this thread is stemmed from an intellectual debate within your mind regarding a "competition" of sorts? What gives?

As ar as bloodlines are concerned...Everyone is equally eligable for any attributes and or abilities...Depending on their learning abilities on a mental as well as "spiritual" or "metaphysical" level(s).

I would not count out any part of society in regards to the supposed "bloodlines only" remark...I would percieve that this would be a remark out of bias tenacity.

On the qualifying...I am not sure where your last statement comes into play...Who qualifies for what? The last time I checked, the individuals path of enlightenment was NOT a "competition" by any means.

It starts to sound more like dwelving into esoteric politics more than anything. What evidence do you bring forth for your "accusations" that esoteric mental functions may be in competition regarding "bloodlines" vs the average individual?

I am merely curious about your answer.

A minority of those in the occult practices will insist that only they " the gifted" can perform " magic", or in the case of "mediums" channel, they are very outspoken against those who " teach" others, this is obviously related to a monopoly . The division exist, in most occult practices.

I think your born with certain things , and in an attempt to lable or explain these things you naturaly look for answers . In doing so you open yourself to a bigger picture of things , some of which you assimilate into your understanding , and some of which you don,t . People are always looking for answers in order to learn and grow ,wether to explain gifts , or to learn to open their selfs to them .Either way , it,s good to keep an open mind .

What of people who insist that those who are gifted have no ability, or chance of having any ability, No open mind there, as a matter of fact such people laugh at those who cope out with "Keep an open Heart" to religious indoctronazation.

Everyone has a ability of some sort. Has'nt everyone had that little inner voice telling them not to do something, and when they do it comes out to be the wrong thing to do? Anyone that has a ability knows that it comes from a higher source...we are just the conductor. As far as magic goes to me it is a prayer.

I know Dabbler you will have something to say about what I have typed. You have had some experiences that just was'nt of the highest and the best.

In regards to ~Mysticwinds~ post, I found it a bit patronizing. Why do certain religiously percieved individuals need to seem so condescending at times? Odd really.

The individual may call it the "inner self" as an excuse to blame their attributes on, or they may partake in other fields of practice and say that they are "gifted." The point I think ~Dabbler~ is wishing to convey is that there should be, or could be a bit less drama surrounded by conflict from individuals on both sides of the fence when it comes to the subject at hand.

~Dabblers~ point should come across quite clear even if his words are a bit on the psychological side most times. Why must there mostly be competition in arcane uses? There are always two possible outcomes to any event, but society usually seems to forget about a 3rd which is "acceptance."; which unfortunately is rarely used because of bias, intolerable ignorance that seems to have prevailed within the last 20 or so years.

The motivations for the non-acceptance could be "blamed" on media broadcasting, but in the end it is always the individuals PERSONAL CHOICE. A reverance for complacency instead of always "taking things for granted." Pitting fraudulance against either an individual or an entire society is never the correct answer but those would be "blamers" or finger pointers always need a bit of lee way for their mediocre "mind games" to come about. Influence is always prevailant not matter where the individual looks.

*Sighs* Why cannot we all just get along...

"In the end, it doesn't even matter." Quote by Linkin Park.

Perhaps Dabbs it depends on the individuals definition of the word gift ?

For some life itself is a gift.

Personally I have felt 'gifted' but have never felt I possessed something that was unobtainable by anyone else.

Other times I have felt that 'gifted' does'nt come cheap.

No, I'm not talking money, I'm talking life experience which may for some lead to feeling 'gifted'.

thank you sinora, I would only add, the intent behind the individuals practice is a part of that equation.

Mystic child, I would mention that even in collectives, the " origin" of " power/ energy" is debated, not all who believe would agree with your statement.

The common underlying motive of those who insist that such abilities are gifts limited to bloodlines.. Is narrowing the competition potential.

Who says this? I don't know of anyone except fringe people perhaps and I have been involved in this area for most of my life and am 62 now. I don't call them gifts...people get confused with religion. These are abilities some are better at than others and may be more able to do better than someone else but most often it is the dedication that one puts into whatever it is they are practicing. I have seen some things like this but everyone I have researched has done research to back up what they are saying. Most would know who to chalk off as attention seekers. Most who are occultist can spot them right away. It is the newbies that often are mislead. There are those that appear to have been born with some sort of innate ability toward something occultish or they had an accident or NDE and something unforseen developed. There is a lot of research on this.

Example " spiritualist mediums" compete with those who hold seminars.

Never noticed that one before. I must have missed something all those years. They hold these because it is apart of their belief system that this is something they should do and those who do charge very little to nothing but I am not sure what you mean by seminars. Are you meaning something other than Psychic Fairs? There are motivational speakers and others that teach certain things like Reiki and NLP or meditation and things like that. They are not in conflict. I am assuming you mean the guest speaker who is a medium but I don't see the conflict really because most of these people are metaphysical minded and into certain ways of behavior and then there are the charlatans but usually they can be spotted as well. You have those in every walk of life not just mediumship.

Most metaphysics collectives are split into factions, on who qualifies for what.

I don't understand the statement. What do you mean by metaphysical collectives exactly? Man has levels and qualifications for excellence by attending a place of learning. There are magickal circles that have levels that you earn by learning certain practices and you become an intiate and that is very old. Not everyone does that anymore since you have more modern forms of magick.

A minority of those in the occult practices will insist that only they " the gifted" can perform " magic", or in the case of "mediums" channel, they are very outspoken against those who " teach" others, this is obviously related to a monopoly . The division exist, in most occult practices.

There are bigots in every walk of life...doesn't mean they aren't fringe. I never met one of these people but you would need to be more specific. What type of teaching? I have known many mediums and never heard anyone say you couldn't teach in fact most metaphysical places have classes to learn to trance and channel or bring out psychometric abilities and things like that. There have always been secretive organizations. The Masons are one. They are entitled to be this way if they want to make certain qualifications for membership. They do that in college fraternities. What conflict are you meaning in general?

Gifts are not usually spoken of but rather abilities. You can improve on them or learn techniques from those more knowledgeable either from age or dedication to whatever it might be. Sometimes referred to as a mentor.