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First please understand that I am a heathen, and the struggles of Jehovah and Satan are none of my affair.
That said, has anyone here contemplated the question of what if the roles are actually reversed? What if the writings that have survived are actually those of the followers of the Evil one, and that the lord of good (the light carrier? hmmm) was misportrayed.
Think of it: In the bible Jehovah is shown to be an angry, jealous, vengeful, killer of a deity. He lied to Adam in the garden (eat of this fruit and you shall surely die...and he didnt). Meanwhile the serpent gives mankind the gift of knowledge.
so what do yo? what do you think folks? is that just crazy...or perhaps could it be true?
I would love to hear from the monotheists what you think.
~W~

Jesus wasn't around during the shake up in the garden.

I think he swapped words there on accident- he said: "In the bible Jehovah is shown to be an angry, jealous, vengeful, killer of a deity. He lied to Adam in the garden". I'm sure he meant, Satan. But he didn't say 'Jesus' anywhere.

LordWolf, this all depends on how you understand the story. This is in the Hebrew Bible, and Jews have no concept of the 'Devil'. Their spin is different. The character of the devil comes into play in the New Testament- and because of that, Christians 'see' the Devil in some of those Old Testament passages. A rabbi would beg to differ a 'fall of Satan' in Isaiah (it's the story of the fall of a Babylonian king), the trial of Job (it's ha-satan, and is not evil), and in the case of Genesis...well, since I am a Christian that doesn't believe in the devil (I have a Jewish perception on this)- I view it as choices. We all have choices and free will to make them. God lays it all out- it's up to us.

nope i meant jehovah. he told adam that he would die if he ate of the fruit. adam ate of the fruit, and he lived a very very long life.
is that not a lie?
~W~

Oh no, it was not a lie... he did eventually die. In Eden, they would live forever... cast out of Eden~ they became 'mortal'. That was part of the punishment... death (which did come), and the pains of childbirth for women.

Ten people can read the same passages in the Bible and everyone of them sees and takes what they read differently.

I do see what you mean by a jewish perspective tho. I grew up in a southern baptist family, and have the point of view stuck in my head.
~W~

That's why there are different denominations, Darkwolfman. I'm a Theologian, I view it from a historical perspective and I deliver it as would a historian interviewed for A&E's 'Mystery of The Bible', lol. I have no desire to preach or convert here- what I offer is what I have learned in formal school.

I grew up in a Baptist home but I rather not share what I think here.

I feel yes we have free will as well and well spoken my dear Images. it is up to us so to me I really do not see how it matters which way it is because whats going to happen is going to happen and well hopefully we are already gone when it happens.

where does it say he would have lived forever? my bible says"
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

so, he was already going to die unless he ate of the tree of life...and became as THE GODS, so he was driven out.

and usually if someone says "eat that and die" it sort of means "now-ish" not in a couple hundred years.
~W~

The Bible is a constant: creation, sin, judgement, redemption story. There was judgement, there was death- but there was redemption- it wasn't immediate, and he clothed them and stayed with them after they were cast out. He didn't say it would be immediate, either. They would surely die... and they did- as opposed to living forever which they would have if they hadn't eaten from the tree of knowledge.

Let me add- it's never easy for people to understand ancient writing and their contexts- especially if it's not something they personally buy into.

I've had to learn all of this from a historical perspective. I had to learn the cultural foundation and writing styles (and even the different authors) of ancient Hebrew texts- you just can't understand it fully with a modern eye not having any of that information. It makes sense to me, because it's my 'major'- I've studied it in this way. But even those that are not theologians understand the casting out of Eden story the way I have explained it. Not all, but many do. What I offer is what I have learned in seminary and university- as well as my particular denomination. It's also the way Roman Catholics understand the punishment as- I was previously Roman Catholic- and we had a Roman Catholic professor in our Old Testament class in the Episcopal diaconate seminary. I've also been to other churches and they teach it the same way.

I have considered the same, LordWolf.
Who is to say "God" is necessairly the good one?

This may be taking it off subject a little, but in all aspects- He is in most ways, very cruel.
God supposedly decides when everyone lives, and when they die. How they die, and how they live.

If God were truely good, then wouldn't he do a better job of fixing this already damned planet? I doubt that anyone deserves to starve to death. I dobt that anyone deserves cancer or heart disease or any other type of illness.
We have to work brutally for anything we want in life. Why? Because this precious "Father" made it so.
Technically, God is a dictator- in blunt form.

He will kill you, or let you live and work. He will bring you food, but you must work at it.
You must worship him, or you will burn in Hell.
If you are born gay- the way he made you- then you can forget about going to heaven. If he has you being born with a disorder, you can forget about living a full life.
But that is the way he made you, right?

God lied to me. Over and over.
Don't doubt what Wolf is saying... trust me, he's right.

I'm sorry but this thread can't stay open- the last post has turned it into a religion bashing affair, it can only go downhill from here. We cannot ridicule the tenants of another religion in the main forum- it's the site's rules. And I would close it no matter what religion was being bashed.