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scionofrequiem
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This information was brought to you by
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith
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Lilitu is a female Mesopotamian night demon with a penchant for killing male children. Hebrew Lilith is either cognate with, or loaned from, Akkadian. In Isaiah 34:14, Lilith is a kind of night-demon or animal, translated as onokentauros, a kind of apelike demon, in the Septuagint, as lamia "witch" by Hieronymus of Cardia, and as screech owl in the KJV. In the Talmud and Midrash, Lilith appears as a night demon. The idea of Lilith as the first wife of Adam arose in the Middle Ages.

Etymology
Hebrew לילית lilith, Akkadian language lîlîtu are female Nisba adjectives from the Proto-Semitic root lyl "night", literally translating to nocturna "female nightly being/demon". Sayce (Hibbert Lectures, 145ff.), Fossey (La Magie Assyrienne, 37ff.), and others reject the root etymology of lyl "night", and suggest the origin of Lilitu was as a storm demon; and this view is supported by the cuneiform inscriptions quoted by these scholars. The association with "night" may still be due to early popular etymology. The corresponding Akkadian masculine lîlû shows no Nisba suffix and compares to Sumerian (kiskil-)lilla.

Akkadian mythology
[edit]
Kiskil-lilla
In the Sumerian prologue to the Gilgamesh epos, a female demon named ki-sikil-lil-la-ke4 has been identified with Lilith by translators:

Kramer translates:

a dragon had built its nest at the foot of the tree
the Zu-bird was raising its young in the crown,
and the demon Lilith had built her house in the middle.
[...]
Then the Zu-bird flew into the mountains with its young,
while Lilith, petrified with fear, tore down her house and fled into the wilderness
Wolkenstein translates the same passage:

a serpent who could not be charmed made its nest in the roots of the tree,
The Anzu bird set his young in the branches of the tree,
And the dark maid Lilith built her home in the trunk.

The Burney relief

The Burney Relief, ca. 1950 BC.The Gilgamesh passage quoted above has in turn been applied by some to the Burney relief (Norman Colville collection), a sculpture of a woman with bird talons, flanked by owls, dating to ca. 1950 BC.

The key of this identification lies in the bird talons and the owls. While the relief may depict the demon Kisikil-lilla-ke of the Gilgamesh passage or another goddess, identification with Lilitu is more tenuous and likely influenced by the "screech owl" translation of the KJV. A very similar relief dating to roughly the same period is preserved in the Louvre (AO 6501).

Parallels of bird goddesses are found in e.g. Athena and also in the neolithic Vinca culture.

Babylonian Lilitu
After these reliefs, there is a gap of about a millennium, and it is only from ca. the 9th century BC that vampire-like spirits called the Lilu are known from Babylonian demonology. These female demons roam during the hours of darkness, hunting and killing newborn babies and pregnant women. Akkadian Lilitu forms a triad with Ardat Lili, and Idlu Lili. As stated above, they may have originated as storm demons, and the "night" association could be a Semitic popular etymology.

The "Lilith Prophylactic" of Arslan Tash (Aleppo National Museum) has been suspected a forgery, but if genuine, it would be a 7th century BC plaque featuring a sphinx-like creature and a she-wolf devouring a child, with a Phoenician inscription addressing the sphinx creature as Lili.

The association with the owl is difficult to date, and may be due to the bird having been seen as a blood-sucking night spirit. Elements of the cult spread to Ancient Greece, and can be traced in the Erinyes and Hekate.

Lilith in the Bible
Isaiah 34:14, describing the desolation of Edom, is the only occurrence of Lilith in the Hebrew Bible:

tsiyiy pagash 'iy sa`iyr qara' rea` liyliyth raga` matsa' manowach
literal translation: "yelpers meet-[perfect] howlers; hairy-ones cry-[imperfect] to fellow. liyliyth reposes-[perfect], acquires-[perfect] resting-place."
KJV: "The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest."
Schrader (Jahrbuch für Protestantische Theologie, 1. 128) and Levy (ZDMG 9. 470, 484) suggest that Lilith was a goddess of the night, known also by the Jewish exiles in Babylon, although evidence for Lilith being a goddess instead of just a demon is lacking. Isaiah dates to the 6th century BC, and the presence of Jews in Babylon would indeed coincide with the attested references to the Lilitu in Babylonian demonology.

The Septuagint translates onokentauros, apparently for lack of a better word, since also the sa`iyr "satyrs" earlier in the verse are translated with daimon onokentauros. The "wild beasts of the island and the desert" are omitted altogether, and the "crying to his fellow" is also done by the daimon onokentauros


Christian Bible
Hieronymus of Cardia translated Lilith with lamia, in Horace (De Arte Poetica liber, 340) a witch who steals children, similar to the Breton Korrigan, in Greek mythology described as a Libyan queen who mated with Zeus. After Zeus abandoned Lamia, Hera stole Lamia's children, and Lamia took revenge by stealing other women's children.

The screech owl translation of the KJV is without precedent, and apparently together with the "owl" (yanshuwph, probably a water bird) in 34:11, and the "great owl" (qippowz, properly a snake,) of 34:15 an attempt to render the eerie atmosphere of the passage by choosing suitable animals for difficult to translate Hebrew words.

Later translations include:

night-owl (Young, 1898)
night monster (ASV 1901, NASB 1995)
night hag (RSV 1947)
night creature (NKJV 1982, NLT 1996)


Jewish tradition
There was a Hebrew tradition of placing an amulet around the neck of newborn boys, inscribed with the names of three angels who are to protect them from the lilin until their circumcision, lends weight to the argument that Lilith had existed in earlier Hebrew mythology and is not the creation of later medieval authors. There is also a Hebrew tradition to wait a while before a boy's hair is cut so as to attempt to trick Lilith into thinking the child is a girl so that the boy's life may be spared.

[edit]
Dead Sea scrolls
Lilith's name also appears in a list of demonic creatures in the Dead Sea Scrolls (4Q510 frag. 11.4-6a; frag. 10.1f), in a passage referring to Isaiah 34:14.

[edit]
Talmud
The word "lilith" appears several times in the Talmud. In Nidda 24b it refers to a winged human, while in Erubin 100b it refers to something with long hair.

Erubin 18b says that after the expulsion from Eden, Adam was separated from Eve for 130 years, during which time the seed he wasted created "ghouls, demons and lilin". I. e. in Talmudic tradition, not Lilith but Adam engendered the lilin, a connection that may be the origin of the later association of Lilith and Adam.

[edit]
Kabbala
In some passages of the Kabbala, as well as in the 13th century Treatise on the Left Emanation [1], Lilith is the mate of Samael.

In others, probably informed by The Alphabet of Ben Sira, she is Adam's wife (Yalqut Reubeni, Zohar 1:34b, 3:19 [2])

Lilith as Adam's first wife
The passage in Genesis 1:27 — "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (before describing a mate being made of Adam's rib and being called Eve in Genesis 2:22) is sometimes forwarded as an indication that Adam had a wife before Eve. This is not necessarily implied however, since there are two accounts of creation in Genesis 1 and 2, beyond the double mention of the creation of man in both Genesis 1:26 and 2:7.

A medieval reference to Lilith as the first wife of Adam is the anonymous The Alphabet of Ben-Sira, written sometime between the 8th and 11th centuries. Lilith is described as refusing to assume a subservient role to Adam during sexual intercourse and so deserting him ("She said, 'I will not lie below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom position, while I am to be the superior one.'").

Lilith then went on to mate with Asmodai and various other demons she found beside the Red Sea, creating countless lilin. Adam urged God to bring Lilith back, so three angels were dispatched after her. When the angels, Senoy, Sansenoy, and Semangelof, made threats to kill one hundred of Lilith's demonic children for each day she stayed away, she countered that she would prey eternally upon the descendants of Adam and Eve, who could be saved only by invoking the names of the three angels. She did not return to Adam.

The background and purpose of The Alphabet of Ben-Sira is unclear. It is a collection of stories about heroes of the Bible and Talmud, it may have been a collection of folk-tales, a refutation of Christian, Karaite, or other separatist movements; its content seems so offensive to contemporary Jews that it was even suggested that it could be an anti-Jewish satire [3], although, in any case, the text was accepted by the Jewish mystics of medieval Germany.

The Alphabet of Ben-Sira is the earliest surviving source of the story, and the conception that Lilith was Adam's first wife became only widely known with the 17th century Lexicon Talmudicum of Johannes Buxtorf.

In the late 19th century, the Scottish Christian author George MacDonald incorporated the story of Lilith as Adam's first wife and predator of Eve's children into a mythopoeic fantasy novel in the Romantic style.

The role of Lilith as Adam's faithless wife has parallels with the ideas about Eve herself in the Unification theology of Sun Myung Moon

Modern magic
An 18th or 19th century Persian amulet, a protective charm for a newborn boy, kept in the Israel Museum, Jerusalem, depicts Lilith in chains, with "Bind Lilith in chains" written under each arm.

Lilith appears as a succubus in Aleister Crowley's De Arte Magica.
----------------------------------------
There you go a bit more info on Lilith

- Sin




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lordvampirio
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22:20:47 Oct 28 2005
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youve made it your task for the day to give us information on people lol



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scionofrequiem
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22:23:02 Oct 28 2005
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Its what the net is for. A massive collection of information that should be utilized when nessacery. Which, is exactly what I'm doing... Besides I do not mind looking up info like this, helps me with learning and getting to understand some gee wiz occult info of different cultures.

- Sin



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Yendor
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23:18:49 Oct 28 2005
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Sorry but I dont mean to be rude

Why dont you just post the link and let everyone read from there? I cant get it why you're mirroring everthing in wikipedia here... I'm sorry but I finding it a nuisance with all due respect. If ever you barely have an opinion of you own, everyone can just copy-&-paste.. dont get me wrong but I have to state this opinion.



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scionofrequiem
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23:26:44 Oct 28 2005
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Understandable.

Reasons why I post stuff directly from sources, because one of two things happen.

1) People complain about it not being posted and having to click on a link in order to read.

or

2) people end up complaining that I do post the information and tie up a major section in a post.

Either way I end up loosing in that aspect. Yet, in the long run at least people have something to read over, later on, then go out and research more of what was posted, through numerious sites other then the single site I gotten my info from.

- Sin



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Yendor
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23:32:30 Oct 28 2005
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Yes, I guess we're getting along here. I'll answer your points.

1) In my opinoin one of the reasons threads exist here is to stimulate reaseach, now if some people are too lazy to click on a link, its only their problem & they shouldn't spoil & burden the people who wish to read form the appropiate sources.

2) You can always assimilate the information from (& better) more then one source, say apart from wikipedia, reformat it insert your points of view & publish it as a Member article. Which for future references it would make much more sense & still have have the ability for poeple to discuss it and rate it accordingly.



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scionofrequiem
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23:38:09 Oct 28 2005
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Right.

Yet, some times giving a big peice of different cultures aspects of this person or biblical figure, sometimes sparks its own invesigative nature which gets people up off the normal VR site to actually go out in the net to find more on the subject, instead of the broad catagory I posted in the topic itself.

So either way, this can be a good or bad thing.

- Sin



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Yendor
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23:40:47 Oct 28 2005
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Don't worry it'll only make people come back more educated with a more definite opinion. :)



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scionofrequiem
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23:43:26 Oct 28 2005
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Which is what I hope I end up doing. Spreading a bit of wealth, some times help with making others seek out their own desire to become wealthy.

Which, in this case, would be wealth of occult knowledge.

- Sin



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UMBRAxDExVIR
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00:53:08 Oct 29 2005
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things I found on her online this is just some of it there is so much more...



LEGEND OF LILLITH - "My name thou knowest not, and yet shall know, And know too late. But, know thou this indeed: Joy is my sister. Sister I, to Death." It is said that Lillith was the twin sister of Adam and dwelt with him in the Garden at Paradise. Adam was king of Eden and Lillith wished to be co-ruler with him, but the Lord of Light permitted it not. Lillith was beautiful and wise. She wearied of her brother, Adam, who was less wise than she. Lillith refused to bear children from Adam. The Lord of Light was angered and turned Lillith out of Paradise. Samuel, an angel of the Lord of Light and a son of god, fell in love with Lillith. To Samuel, Lillith bore three half-god, half-human children, all called the nephilim. Their wisdom, power and beauty was so great that the children of Darkness were afraid of them and called them monstrous names to defile them. Lillith would not be defiled. From her beloved Samuel she learned the wisdom of the Lord of Light and became the first witch. She lived as a daughter of the night mother, calling the people to dance and be joyous by the light of the moon. Her symbol was the night owl, and those who followed her called her Arionrhod. The children of Darkness trembled and barred their doors at night seeking to protect themselves lest Lillith take them and teach them the ways of the wise ones, the witches of old.

Litllith is an archetype for the woman who refuses to be dominated by man. She was created the stories say when Adam was created from dust just as Adam was, she claimed to be his equal. When Adam wanted to lie with her she wanted to know why she must be on the bottom. This shows she was in full control of her sexuality. She is a largely misunderstood archetype who has been called Poetress of Darkness, Imp of Impetuosity, and Occasional Serpent of Seduction. . She is deeply committed to her personal freedom and keeps her moral strength alive. She was kicked out of Eden and then Adam was given another wife. In some tales she is the snake of the garden who tempted Eve. Some stories say she is a demon,others a fallen angel. . She has a mysterious power that is permanent, direct, and instinctual. To be cast out for not obeying your husband is enough to make you a snake or a demon in the history of the Jewish people.
The Children of Lillith


Chapter One: The Rubricon of Lillith
(As translated from the ancient texts)

In the days after Caine created his childer, and his grandchilder roamed the First City, Lillith did appear to one of Caines children without Caine's knowledge. Lillith told Caine's childe of days to come, where a great war would fall upon them, and their childer, Caine's granchildren, would rise up against them. She told the childe that if he did not hide from the eyes of Caine's grandchildren, that final death would surely fall upon him. Lillith offered the childe of Caine refuge from the impending storm, for she did favor this childe of Caine more than all of Caine's children. Heeding Lillith's warning, the childe did go with Lillith and hide with her in the wilderness.

As the childe of Caine watched from afar, as surely as Lillith did warn, the grandchildren of Caine rose up against their own sires and slew them. Fearful, the childe of Caine asked of Lillith if they would search for him, for surely they knew that he was indeed missing. Consoled by Lillith, she told him that all was taken care of, and that she was safe within her arms. Again, as Lillith did say, the grandchildren satisfied with their hunt, did not seek him out. The childe spent many nights with Lilli ......text is missing...... n to the other children of Caine, Jahared took in his mind, a vile plot. He spoke to the others, and told them that he would show them where this childe of Caine did make his haven. In this way, he knew that he would have the beautiful Lillith to himself. The grandchildren of Caine accepted his offer, and greeted him to their coven.

Jahared did show the grandchildren of Caine the resting place of his sire after three days, for Lillith did leave the haven in search of Jahared. A great battle occurred in the haven, and after great destruction was wrought throughout the haven, the childe of Caine did perish and was taken by one known as Hakkim. Jahared was glad for the death of his sire, for now he believed Lillith to be his and his alone. In this time that he was alone, for Lillith still had not returned to the haven, Jahared did return to the wilderness and created children to accompany him.

Lillith did return to the haven in time, and seeing the havoc wrought throughout it, she questioned Jahared. Jahared did say unto her that the childe of Caine was slain by the grandchildren of Caine, who did force the location of his sire from him. Lillith did see through his lie, and she was enraged that this man would do such a thing.

Cursed are you, Jahared, for you did lie to me, and you did plot the death of your sire. Your crimes are great, and they stem from the lust within your soul for me.

Lillith then cursed Jahared, and sent him into the sleep of death, and banished him from the lands of the children of Caine.

Lillith then cursed Jahared, and sent him into the sleep of death, and banished him from the lands of the children of Caine.

Lillith did then take the children of Jahared and pulled them under her wing, for they were lost in the wilderness without their sire. She taught them that their sire had embraced them in a lie, and that they would never again be victim to his crimes, if they did learn from her and grow strong.

The children of Jahared did agree and learned from Lillith the powers of truth and ways of the night. They did learn and grew strong, but the did stay hidden from their brethren for Lillith instructed them to do so. Lillith told her new children that one day, they would rejoin their brethren, and they would aide them in the fight against Jahared, for he and the other grandchildren of Caine wished all their children ill-will.

After the days that Lillith did leave them, they did eventually emerge into the world, and disguise themselves from, the other brethren, awaiting the time when Lillith would permit them into the world....

Chapter Two: The Ways of the Dreamers
The organization of the Children of Lillith is perhaps one of the most simplistic in all vampire society. This is primarily due to the small numbers of the Children of Lillith that exist. The secrecy of the clan is responsible for their small numbers. This clan also has remarkably low instances of duplicity or ulterior motives, due again to the small numbers that exist. This is also due to the beliefs of the members.

Clan Structure
The leader of the Children of Lillith is known as the Thane. The Thane is known amongst the clan as the mouth of Lillith. It is believed that the Thane has some form of communication with Lillith herself, and all direction for the clan is handed down to the Thane. Thus, the word of the Thane is the word of Lillith. Disobeying an order from the Thane typically carries a punishment of a quick final death.

There are other members of the leadership of the Children of Lillith, and these are known as the Magnates. The Magnates are the regional leaders of the Children of Lillith. Regions are defined typically by continents. There is one Magnate for Europe and Western Asia, one in Africa, one in North America, one in South America, and one in Australia. The Magnates are the only ones who have contact with the Thane on a regular basis and this is mainly due to security purposes. The Magnates communicate to the Thane in their sleep in the form of dreams, the basis of their clan discipline Sublimate. They pass down the orders of the Thane to the other members of the clan. The Magnates cannot punish members of the clan by themselves, they must have a meeting where each Magnate must judge the indiscretion, and then sentence be carried out. This meeting is again held in a dreamstate where the member in question is held prisoner during the day in a sealed haven until sentence can be g iven.

Clan Lifestyle
Each member of this clan, when embraced, goes through a rigorous learning experience. They each must learn the history of the clan. In this way, rumors and lies can be dispelled. The Rubricon of Lillith tells the story of the clan's creation, and each new member is required to thoroughly know the Rubricon before they are allowed to roam free. After the member is embraced and properly trained in the knowledges and disciplines of the clan, they are presented to the Magnates and the Thane in a dreamstate. There, the final arbitration of the neonate is made. If the member is worthy of becoming one of the Children of Lillith, they are accepted by the Thane, and her name is recorded into the Chronicle of Lillith. If the member is not considered worthy, they are taken by the Magnates and the Thane to a secret location, where they are reconditioned. All knowledge of the clan is wiped clean from their minds, and the knowledge of their clan discipline is replace with one other. They are then usually released into the world as Panders. Some of the ones who are embraced are deemed unworthy are destroyed, for some are even deemed unfit as vampires altogether, though this is typically very rare.

The other members of this clan are very few indeed. The exact numbers, however, are unknown to all but the Thane and the Magnates. Each member is rather free to do as they please within a city, except for showing their true identity to other humans, or other vampires. The Masquerade for the Children of Lillith is one of the most strict and most important known by any vampire in the world today. Typically, any small instance of breaking the Masquerade can easily be corrected with the use of their clan discipline Sublimate. If the Magnates, or even the Thane must be involved to cover up the infraction, the punishment is usually severe.

The nights of the Children of Lillith are typically very lonely, for they are not typically allowed to roam and interact with any other kindred or kine without the knowledge of who they are being compromised. On the other hand, the Children of Lillith are constantly working for the efforts of Lillith and doing her bidding in preparation for the attempted retaliation of Jahared. The Children of Lillith have been aiding the Sabbat (behind the scenes) since their creation, and they wish to see their goals met, that being, the destruction of the Antediluvians.

The Children of Lillith are required to meet once per year in the Dreamlands. There, the Thane discusses with the entire clan the future of the Children of Lillith. In these meetings, the words of Lillith are passed down to them, as well as the year's history told to the entire clan.

The Chronicle of Lillith
The Chronicle of Lillith is a book that is written by the Thane. The entire history of the Children of Lillith is kept in the chronicle, and each and every members name is written therein upon their acceptance to the Clan. Even the names of the failed members and those destroyed are kept within the chronicle, so they may trace any heritage. The Chronicle is guarded in a place that is known as the Dreamlands. The Dreamlands is a location that is known only to the members of the Children of Lillith, and it is accessible to any member.

Stereotypes of the Children of Lillith
Assamites:
They are downtrodden amongst their own kind. They are strong, but they shall fall easily to the plans of Jahared. Their inability to drink the blood of other vampires will halter their efforts in the time of Gehenna.
Brujah:
They are mostly rash, arrogant beasts. There are some, however who are scholars and intellectuals. These few are the only hope of the Brujah, for they need to have a strong leadership to guide their extreme power in the end. Power without guidance will do only superficial damage.
Caitiff:
They are unworthy of the glory of Lillith, but they still have a use in Lillith's plans. If used properly, they shall be a great tool against Jahared.
Gangrel:
Their infrequent alliances with Lupines aide them more than they know. They are wise and are capable of great rationalization, even in times of stress. They shall be great assets in the time of Gehenna.
Giovanni:
They worry far too much about material things. If they were to open their eyes and face the real dangers at hand, they would be a useful tool. However, if they persist in their ways, the end shall sneak up on them like a serpent in the tall grasses.
Malkavian:
There is truth in their lies, there is wisdom in their insanity. They are the great visionaries of the vampires. Heed their warnings, if you can decipher them. They know much more than they even are aware of themselves.
Nosferatu:
They subvert their own kind, and trust naught but themselves. They shall never fully trust anyone, and hence, shall be one of the first to fall to the sleeping ones fangs.
Ravnos:
They are lost children, without direction. They fill their time with idle amusements. Some do realize the importance of their role in the final days, but their peers seem to retrain them from their true purposes.
Toreador:
They are self-aggrandizing buffoons which spend all too much time in themselves. They care little for anything but their art, and other things they do care about, hold little real significance. If they are taught to see the truths, like their antitribu brothers, then perhaps they shall become useful in the final days.
Tremere:
This clan of great power knows more than they will ever tell. They shall be one of the greatest assets during Gehenna, however, only those who have broken the bond. The rest shall be taken down like ripe wheat in the harvest to the farmers scythe.
Ventrue:
This clan is heading in the right direction by controlling kine and their assets, but this will be only a mere diversion in the final war.
Camarilla:
They are merely deluding themselves, going about their own agendas, while the constant threat of Jahared and the Antediluvians approach. If only they could be properly warned of this threat. Perhaps when we are allowed to reveal ourselves, they will listen, and hopefully it will not be too late.
Anarchs:
They will be a great tool in the last days, for they should be able to see the real threats before them. When they do realize the threat before them, they might be able to concentrate their forces and aid us in the fight.
Sabbat:
They are brutal, and some antitribu border on mindlessness, but with their leadership clans, they should be able to direct the sect in the right direction. They realize the threat that the Antediluvians pose, and they are constantly working to defeat them. It is the Sabbat that we shall fight behind in the final days.
Inconnu:
Not much is known about these reclusive vampires, for we are warned to stay away from them. What we do know of them, is that they are no longer what they once were and many of them now have infernal aims.
Lupines:
If they can be guided, they can aid us during Gehenna. Only if they are first convinced that Jahared and his companions are truly the prophets of the wyrm.
Magi:
We have been instructed to remain out of their affairs, and they present quite a mystery to us.
Wraiths:
These are perhaps the only friend that we are permitted to freely associate with. Much wisdom can be gained from them, and they can also aid you in quite mysterious ways.
Chapter Three: The Discipline of the Children of Lillith
The Children of Lillith employ the Disciplines of Obfuscate and Potence. They also use the Discipline of Sublimate. Only Children of Lillith know the discipline Sublimate, and any attempts to each others of the discipline results in the pupil being quickly destroyed, along with their teacher.



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Gaydonerguy
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01:48:50 Oct 29 2005
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And once again, I now know more about Lilith than I did before. Information like this is invaluable to true researchers. Keep up the great work.



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BeshadowedChild
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02:33:49 Oct 29 2005
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Wow, I didn't know any of that. Thanks for posting that knowledge, I feel I've benefitted from having read it.



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danzig1330
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07:20:59 Oct 29 2005
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Most of this I read in an earlier thread the last half sounds as if it came from a rpg,



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xtroublex
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23:29:26 Oct 29 2005
Read 937 times

Thanks for the great info, I know little on this so I can't add more.



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Deshler
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06:46:25 Oct 30 2005
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and once again i learn something new awsome



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ShadowAnkh
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07:49:05 Oct 30 2005
Read 922 times

thanks for the info



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smythe
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08:13:48 Oct 30 2005
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ahhh, rright so it was Lilth that was the first woman (technically) right ok tyvm for clearing that up for me. ^_^ .



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scionofrequiem
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08:45:15 Oct 31 2005
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The Wife aspect came about in the Dark Ages from what I know. Yet, her being a Demon varies from Culture to Culture and from Religion to Religion.

- Sin



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killbox365
killbox365

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08:51:34 Oct 31 2005
Read 903 times

Ok now for my two cents, after all of this I beleive given the opurtunity I would love to split lilith from crotch to chin with a dull deer horn, place her bitch head on a pike and put an end to her fable

sorry.



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scionofrequiem
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09:29:09 Oct 31 2005
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lol, Different Folks Different Strokes. Just out of curiosity why all the dislike for her?

- Sin



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killbox365
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09:30:48 Oct 31 2005
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I have nothing against her, in fact a women in charge is what I want, allways but it seems we have gone to extremes to speak about what was written over 6000 yrs ago.



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Nightrider
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09:58:24 Oct 31 2005
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Interesting information about Lilith!
Though I don't trust those that are coming from the "White Wolf" source (those that Ryu mentioned).
Btw "Onokentauros" is a creature with the body of a donkey and the torso of a human.



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scionofrequiem
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11:06:17 Oct 31 2005
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All I can think of is the fact something about her made her a large aspect. Which would be the only reason why scripture were written with these individuals in them.

Perhaps these weren't the first people, but the only ones remembered and there for written about. Since memory isn't extremly accurate it would be safe to asume that perhaps some things were exagerated about Lilith.

- Sin



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Death2Hell
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15:51:19 Oct 31 2005
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interesting



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Deshler
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18:41:08 Oct 31 2005
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I believe the sources Ryu gives are most likeley accurate. As my lord i know he is very meticulous and always right



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theblairwitch
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21:39:38 Oct 31 2005
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wowo thanks for the new information; i didn;t know that one;



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MyMorbidPinkDreams
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19:51:55 Nov 01 2005
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beautifuly written i like lilith i think shes fasinating great post i enjoyed it very much



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jtavarez50
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19:56:36 Nov 01 2005
Read 850 times

interesting info



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vampirephoenix
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00:21:18 Nov 02 2005
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Just remember White Wolf got alot of their info from folklore and legends. Just remember Lillith and Cain are bound by blood to be together.



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scionofrequiem
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06:29:47 Nov 02 2005
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I hate to say this, but what Ryu has placed is from the White Wolf Game studios. Its great the synode had used the LARP of VtM to help base some of their traditions and habbits, but what was printed by white wolf uses both tradition and fiction to made something people believed in.

Which is why White Wolf, as much as I like playing its games, and I'm a member of the International Role Playing Club known as the Camarilla, I still have some ill will to the fact that people bought into the tradition of Cain and Lilith being the pregnators of Vampirism and Darkness.

- Sin



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Xanthien
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15:48:46 Nov 02 2005
Read 824 times

Thanks for the Information...



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Angel4Blood
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15:53:03 Nov 02 2005
Read 821 times

interesting read.



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killbox365
killbox365

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02:16:29 Nov 03 2005
Read 811 times

I agree with crazywolf, alot is lost in translation, but only in the Torah can we find this info, I havent yet mastered hebrew enough to decipher it, and it is not in the modern day bible, the church cant control christians if all the info were available. Hell most christians dont even realize Christ was Jewish.



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needless228
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02:24:56 Nov 03 2005
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i must say after reading both this and your post on cain i have learned alot
also i would like to say that i would love to have the dedication/patience to research something so deeply
good job



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by TheRat on Oct 03 2010  •

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