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A Touch Of Madness
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dabbler
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17:45:48 Mar 23 2010
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What criteria do you use for sanity?

Is there a "perk" to being a touch disturbed?

Do you feel that the terms "sane", and "insane" are obsolete? Why?

How do you interact with disturbed, or persons who have demonstarated unstable behaviour?

What have you seen stablize, otherwise disturbed individuals?




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GalFriday
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18:06:05 Mar 23 2010
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Like most things, I place "sanity" on a sliding scale to which everyone adheres (sorry, no "insanity"-exempt-card, folks). But beyond that it really comes down to control rather than the degree of one's mental abnormality. As far as society is concerned, that is. Perhaps a reclassification is in order. We all have a touch of something peculiar (often defined as "personality") but none of that matters if one can function at the status quo within society and it is the level of one's control over the aforementioned peculiarity that is what should be measured. It's all in how the chaos is corralled I'd say.

(I'll revisit this in a bit to examine the other questions posed.)



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MeanDreams
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Oh Boy, do I fit in this thread or what?!?!?!?
Let me think (sometimes, not so easy): sanity are the points given to a person at the beginning of a COC game and as they screw up they lose points and once the well runs dry, permanent deer in the headlights. That's how one travels from point A to point B, just no stopping along the way.
Okay, sanity is a rather difficult thing to define. If one functions most normally while in the eye of the public (public scrutiny) he is deemed "normal (ie, sane). This same person goes home and sleeps with it's mate in a coffin built for two, well then they fall off the wagon and become insane (In=sane, lost inside one's sanity).
Quite often eccentricity and deviancy play big roles (and you thought I was gonna say roll) in categorizing what is and what isn't sanity. Just because a person is a little eccentric and doesn't fit the criteria for another's view of sanity, does that mark him insane (no, it marks the other guy as an idiot for not recognizing fun when he sees it).
Clinical madness on the other hand is one's lack of ability to distinguish thoughts on various levels. It usually runs hand-in-hand through the poppy fields with dimentia, schizophrenia, and neurosis as allies. The condition khown as madness is quite often permanent whereas to be temporarily insane, goofy, or any of the other stepchildren aligned with that word is quite often either harmless and actually a condition people use to change their personalities to suit the situation. The control of one's level of mental stability is sanity and the uncontolled fluctuation between the levels is insanity.
Does that make any sense, probably not?!?!?!? (but insanity allows me to say it...once per day).
Have a Great Evening!!!
The "Creature"


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LordWolf
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23:42:56 Mar 23 2010
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i basically agree with creature (even tho ive been known to sleep in a coffin LOL).
i rather agree with einstein in that those who repeat the same actions expecting different results are insane.

and yes...i think a touch of insanity really stokes the creative fires. most of my fave artists, whether performing or fine (painting/sculpture) are a touch...well...touched! lol
~W~



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Scarletta
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03:14:56 Mar 24 2010
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What criteria do you use for sanity?

For me depends on the situation and who I am dealing with as to if I deam it to be the criteria for insanity.


Is there a "perk" to being a touch disturbed?

Well I think maybe if you claim to be *touched in the head* It allows one to have more privacy due to the fact most do not want to deal with anyone claimed to be Disturbed* or have any conflick with , not to mention it is a safe guard for soem who have committed a crime to use this as a ploy to get off or havealesser sentence.


Do you feel that the terms " sane", and " insane" are obsolete? Why?

No why would one think that , people use it alot so It is not Obsolete, Like above as I said people use it in criminal defense all the time so .. it still pertinent to many.


How do you interact with disturbed, or persons who have demonstarated unstable behaviour?

Well let me see my sister was declared to have 4 personalities, tried to kill me and my mom so I would say I have alot of experience in this field/situation.

Myself I learned quick know who your speaking to and how to control them without them knowing you are, stay clear of them in bad times. Being tough and just as smart as they are. lOl


What have you seen stablize, otherwise disturbed individuals?

Actually many time it is jsut common sense that stablizes one who is disturbed, play thier game yet, stay ahead of their game, and do not ever pratronize them ever that just pisses them off. LOL

Even compassion or understanding why they are asthey are, as I said common sense.



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dabbler
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15:48:26 Mar 24 2010
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The criteria I adopt is the farther a person is removed from mental cognition
and reality the more they can be said to be insane.

" perks" I'll agree with a few already sited, inspiration.. Poa is a fit example of such a perk.

I have been company to unstable individuals, I have been choked by an unstable person, simply for mentioning the heat was turned up to high.

He was in and out of care faculties. He had bi monthly visits from his Doc.
Often his episodes occurred when his physical health was compromised ( not eating regularly.. etc) his desire for socializing often back fired on him, too much activity would trigger outburst. Keeping certain people from being around together some what avoided such triggers.

Routines would create stability, and avoiding significant suprises aided in
prolonged episode free windows.

LW, I was unaware that Einstein originated that quote, thanks, very relative.. ( no pun intended).

I must google a few Sade quoted regarding Sanity. I think Voltaire has a few as well.



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AsphaltTears
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17:54:49 Mar 24 2010
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What criteria do you use for sanity?

I don't use one. I leave it to the professionals and even at that this word is a little archaic. It is relative to who is doing the judging really.

Is there a "perk" to being a touch disturbed?

When you say a "touch" disturbed I think of eccentricities rather than mental illness. Sometimes people let things slide when they know someone acts in a peculiar manner if there is a diagnosis or it is due to behaviors often seen in a subculture. If we are talking about disturbed in the sense of judgment value as to lifestyle it would depend on the peer group and most others would stay clear of things they don't understand or frankly be rude. I would think it only a perk if others you hang with are the same.

Do you feel that the terms " sane", and " insane" are obsolete? Why?

In this day and age yes. They are diagnosing children with disorders they felt only adults had in years past. There is an epidemic of certain things now so, I feel that is too generic or old fashioned to be acceptable. Insane to me is when someone has a total break with reality and cannot cope in society without help if they are even aware of anything but their own world view. I am thinking you are meaning more those who have impulsive behaviors and do radical things or live a lifestyle society does not condone.

How do you interact with disturbed, or persons who have demonstarated unstable behaviour?

Usually those I have known are getting treatment from a doctor/psychiatrist.

What have you seen stablize, otherwise disturbed individuals?

Medications and/or a controlled environment.



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vampchica4
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19:51:46 Mar 24 2010
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Really, in my mind, it takes one to know one.

"normal" is vastly overrated, and if being an indivual makes you insane, then so be it.
But to conform to society..?
Never.



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dabbler
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19:53:54 Mar 24 2010
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But.. if I may inquire..

What if ones obsession to "not conform" becomes maniacal?



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vampchica4
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20:52:15 Mar 24 2010
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ooh... that ia a very good point

But how could you see them as insane if you do not know yourself what being insane feels like?



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LordWolf
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02:16:19 Mar 25 2010
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in insane amount of nonconformity....well, that changes.

at one time a cross dresser would have been classified as nuts due to the sheer nonconformity of that action, but today, its just considered eccentric.

once to be gay was considered insane. today its just a lifestyle choice.

so the definition (clinical at least) of insanity changes and evolves and continues to do so.

as for the cognitive side of it. ...

many would say hitler and stalin were both insane (or as i like to say...inhabitants of the upholstered ward), but both could hold a sane conversation...in fact those that met them thought both were thoughtful and charming.

so again...the definition of such things slip and slide.
~W~



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cadrewolf
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03:13:31 Mar 25 2010
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A touch of madness, we all as humanity hold a bit of madness in our lifes and mind. Insanity is just a figment of societies reasoning on other people.

For if sanity is questioned than sane is to be determined and yet both points when questioned by others hold different meanings.



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coolleyhou
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13:11:16 Mar 25 2010
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I have always been fascinated by the definitions and existential implications of sanity and insanity. Let’s first have a look at the generally accepted definitions and synonyms of these interesting and controversial terms after which I will give my own ideas on the subject.

Oh. Just before we start, here’s something to shake your sanity a bit:

There is no art without the observer
and no observer without art,
for art is mind and mind is art…

Now, according to the English (U.S.) Thesaurus, some synonyms for the word “sanity” are: “good sense”; “wisdom”; “reason”; “understanding”; “common sense”; “sense”; “judgment”; etc.

If you look up the word in an encyclopedia you would find definitions such as the following: “The condition of being mentally healthy and able to make rational decisions based on common sense, reasonableness, and predictability. The term is ultimately, derived from the Latin word “sanus”, meaning whole or sound.”

Synonyms for “insanity” are: “madness”; “lunacy”; “psychosis”; “mental illness”; etc. In reference to an encyclopedia we find a definition such as this:

“Disorder characterized by disturbances in a person’s thoughts, emotions, or behaviour. The term mental illness can refer to a wide variety of disorders, ranging from those that cause mild distress to those that severely impair a person’s ability to function. Mental health professionals sometimes use the terms psychiatric disorder or psychopathology to refer to mental illness.”

So now that we have a basic idea of the currently accepted classifications of the two very opposite terms we can start contemplating their true meaning and validity. First of all, I want to raise a very important point. The nature or conditions in which definitions or views concerning human behaviour and everyday social phenomena are formed reside in the mental sphere of the social norm. In other words, the criteria imposed on the acceptance of a view or definition is whether or not the majority percentile of people discussing a definition agrees to it, while the latter is wholly dependant on the observation of behaviour and character of most people in a current social context. In short, the norm determines what is viewed as “Normal” and those falling outside of this norm are considered to be “Abnormal”. Thus we can see that there can never be an absolute or fixed definition of anything, as times and human conditions are perpetually subjected to change.

For instance, in times of war, be that civil or international, the definition of a suitable or useful person changes instantaneously: people who were previously seen as hostile or over aggressive are now considered as invaluable assets in their ability to defend their country and in not being scared to kill another human being for the greater purpose. Similarly, those people who are sensitive, law abiding and considerate human beings are now seen as being a weakness and possibly a danger to the safety of their country.

Isn’t this a perfect example of “Normality” and “Abnormality” swapping sides? Because now in the condition of war those who were previously labeled as being “Normal” are unable to function in a useful way and evidently the former “Abnormal” ones are now the determining factor in achieving victory for society.



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coolleyhou
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13:11:48 Mar 25 2010
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Moreover, “Abnormality” or mental illness is almost always viewed in a negative sense. Consider the case of artists, scientists, inventors, philosophers and the like. These people are seen as weird and dysfunctional in a social context and yes, maybe they are a bit different than normal people, but have you ever thought about the vital importance of these people in the world? After all, they are the people responsible for the advance, improvement and formulation of novel forms of thought, trends, arts etc. Simply put, a world without them would not have been remotely related to what it is here and now. No technology, science, art, literacy, entertainment and many other things would have existed if it was not for them.

And now, something to think about - It has been said that a mad man is unaware of his madness and that he perceives his imagination or hallucinations as being entirely real. So, how can anyone really know whether or not he or she is sane or insane? How do I know if I am not just imagining everything around me? Even if I consult a psychiatrist and ask for his validation of my perceptions, it can still be just my mind playing tricks on me...Think about that one!



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coolleyhou
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13:14:12 Mar 25 2010
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What would those who have no clue of or interest in this site think of those of us who do?



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cadrewolf
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20:37:00 Mar 25 2010
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They would call us insane for being here, yet insanity is a perception of things like many other things in our lives. we say what is right or wrong or evil or good. Heck sanity on a smaller level is just the idea of feeling young and acting it.



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dabbler
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21:07:40 Mar 25 2010
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I am more aimed at the neuropysiological insanity,

Cadre,

I do follow your social dynamic model though.



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dabbler
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21:11:33 Mar 25 2010
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it is evident that Moralist consider anything outside their bounderies of acceptable to be the actions, or behaviour of an insane person, though seldom do they recognize that to be so fundamentally irritated by the beign behaviour of others is a potential indicator that they are control freaks, an indicator of mental illness.



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Artume
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00:30:59 Mar 26 2010
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What criteria do you use for sanity?

Depends on if you are talking about the docs of society, or society themselves. Either criteria seems opinionated.

Sanity is a sense that the mind has a bond with reality. That all the rules apply.

Is there a "perk" to being a touch disturbed?

Fear perhaps, to intimidate those around you. But I would not nessessarily call it a perk. If you want others away from you then perhaps it is a perk.

Do you feel that the terms " sane", and " insane" are obsolete? Why?

Nah, I use them occasionally. But, there is a difference in stating "oh, that was insane.." and "he just acted completely insane."

How do you interact with disturbed, or persons who have demonstarated unstable behaviour?

I don't.

What have you seen stablize, otherwise disturbed individuals?

Things they rave on about that is in their immediate presence. They wish to get their way so they lash out for the sake of getting their way. IF they get their way, more then likely they will calm down for a few seconds.

But, unfortunately for the truly mentally disturbed, there is no way for them to calm down and stabilize. Perhaps because of a chemical imbalance within their mind that no amount of medication can fix, or simply because they just don't want to.



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Mirra
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06:44:31 Mar 26 2010
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I think insanity and sanity are just a matter of opinion. Just because someone goes and commits a mass murder doesnt mean they are insane.



1. Persistent mental disorder or derangement. Not in scientific use.
2. Unsoundness of mind sufficient in the judgment of a civil court to render a person unfit to maintain a contractual or other legal relationship or to warrant commitment to a mental health facility.
3. In most criminal jurisdictions, a degree of mental malfunctioning considered to be sufficient to relieve the accused of legal responsibility for the act committed

But honestly maybe we are the ones insane and they are what defines a definition of normal. At some point in our lives we all have presented abnormal or questionable behavior, some have presented obsessive characteristics, And yet they go untouched of a diagnosis of insane.

Just because someone is outside of what we may define out of boundaries or has exotic behavior does not make them insane. But if you get right down to it we can all be classified as insane when you get right down to the depths of a person. I feel that there are just those who present themselves in a different manner than what we as a society see as sane. For me it boils down to what they were taught and molded into. We are all BENT From the moment of conception and if that is so do you really think our Maker knew of insanity or did he/she with all intentions make some with more extreme emotion and persona than the rest of us. Maybe some of us ar not run by a process of thinking and acting but merely just an empty soul here on earth to really put things into perspective for us?



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Artume
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07:21:10 Mar 26 2010
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A good example of such from the above post would be the depressing movie: Boy Interrupted.

The boy was not diagnosed as insane, but his psychiatrist did use certain words, he could not explain why the boy was acting the way he was.

The boy committed suicide, thus the documentary. He always talked about suicide, killing people including his parents, was taped practicing it as well as wrote a play that his school acted out on his behalf that portrayed what it would be like to have died.

He seemed to be a very happy child for the most part, but he had a certain mood swing that gave him a blank look and a tone to his voice that seemed very shallow and distant.

This could be seen as borderline insane, but the word was not used in the documentary itself.



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FallenStar
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16:49:34 Mar 26 2010
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I befriended a mental health specialists, one Dr Markose who is sadly no longer with us.

He treated serial killers and those with other serious criminal disorders.After over 40 yrs of experience he confided in me on a personal basis.

Western society does not accept damage to the spirit or daemonic possession causes criminal behaviour.Other cultures do and being Indian he explained some unorthodox explanations seemed to fit case studies far better.

Furthermore, Western science is unable to explain why 30% of psychiatric Doctors themselves befall mental illness whilst treating extreme cases over protracted periods.

Hush, they will not want to talk about this...don't mention the deamons!



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cadrewolf
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07:06:04 Mar 27 2010
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insanity is over medailised, is more to be said. For insanity has become in the papers of our life.



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WolfWhisperer
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16:05:15 Mar 27 2010
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No, we cannot do away with "insane". How else am I going to lable those peole that stand outside, all of Thanksgiving day, to get trampled at a Walmart entrance?

Seriously, there is a very good reason to have those words, those clasifications, no matter what side of the fence you are on. We need them either to know who to avoid or whos home we will be cutting the power on, to sneak in again for a piece of poignant garbage.



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dabbler
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16:05:22 Mar 27 2010
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Cadre,

Please consider answering the question, Philosopical pondering are welcomed, I would just like a run down on how you respond to the questions, thanks..



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cadrewolf
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19:09:48 Mar 27 2010
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Do I believe sane or insane is outdated, yes they are the worlkd has created this illusion on the bases of others ideas and what is norm. We all have a bit in our structure that would fall into this class. For when is sane become insane by action or thought or feeling.

Is this what you wanted Dabbler, physocalogy point in what we seem to be reality is the thoughts of being insane.



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dabbler
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19:11:17 Mar 27 2010
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so what criteria do you use for sanity?



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Doru
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15:48:17 Mar 28 2010
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We all possess different degrees of sanity and madness. As we live our lives we express the aforementioned actions given the outside influences (i.e... education, societial influences, culture, drugs, alcohol, emotions, physical threats, ect..) that leads us from sanity to madness.



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Angelus
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23:53:17 Mar 28 2010
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I'm a creative.. I'm a manic depressive.
And..
Many creatives are or have been manic depressives.

For me, one references the other. If that makes sense?



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vampchica4
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01:32:39 Mar 29 2010
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Hmm... yes, and no
Care to explain further?



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cadrewolf
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01:50:54 Mar 29 2010
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sanity is a term to define compitant behavior, does society seem sane on this term no, for sane goes hand in hand with insane. for terms of mortsal people define definitions of this.

Dabbler, sane is a term we give individuals on the bases that we define sane as going along with norm society, we all hold some aspect in which society deems us a little insane by actions or words.



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Angelus
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00:43:30 Mar 30 2010
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..many, many creatives over the years, endured the hassles of depression, turning that angst into forms of artistic brilliance.



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cadrewolf
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look any many military leaders who were so creative on the battlefield yet was deemed to have some insane traits. patton, napolean, hitler.



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mbillie1125
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01:56:48 Mar 30 2010
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I think society has determined what is considered insanity or sanity. Society has also determined what the norm is which is slightly biased in my opinion. Just because a group says that something is abnormal doesn't necessarily make it so. They just might be saying that because they themselves don't like it or do it. So if one person wears black polish, does that mean they are abnormal or insane? Maybe for them, that is sane or the norm. I think some people who are considered insane or abnormal are actually the sane ones. The ones without problems. Society is so stuck on labeling people that are different. Whether from them or from their own group. They can't understand that others are different and that's okay. Now, I do think some people can have some serious problems. Can be so troubled that they are a danger to themselves and/or others that they would be classified insane sometimes. Not all but some. I think that sometimes those differences in people can be a good thing. Those differences can help to treat or see others in a more open and accepted or understanding light. Also, a little touch of disturbedness or insanity can be good I think. Makes people know who their true friends are. Maybe even be a protective armour. I don't mind people who are considered insane. As long as they don't hurt me or my own. I would hope that they would be learning how to control those emotions of insanity. Some people can't help being who they are.





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cadrewolf
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mbillie1125 well stated post, society has become a society of labeling all groups and forgetting we are individuals yet all human. labels should have been lost after the high school years yet it seems that it has become more profound in the later years.

Sanity has almost become a redudant word. for what we may see as normal may be infact a touch of insanity on someone elses perspective. society breeds our thoughts of a norm society and the outcast society, weight, class religion sex, society has deemed terms on these aspects. much like the insane institutes that are become overcrowded by modern day versions of depression and cultural differences which were once to be thought as society effects of problems.



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Angelus
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12:58:04 Mar 30 2010
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.. you're right, both of you: but would either of you describe our society as 'sane'? I would not.



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dabbler
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16:31:13 Mar 30 2010
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Social "Norms" fluctuate, moral guide lines blur, if say Established religion had their way the norm would be "Lily white behaviour'

So behaviouraly there are more general excepted constants. As millie mentions so well.. Harm is a detrirmental factor. Disturbance is a lesser factor (what a minority considers to be disturbing does not always influance the scale)

If I was to prance around town, with only a loin cloth.. I would be a disturbance to a fraction of people..

(side note Fundimentalist would be appaled by such public behaviour, yet would likely duplicate it in a crusifiction reinactment)

yet if I was to prance around with only a loin cloth, and hug up on random strangers, I would be far more disturbing.

By degree, add being naked, and greased.. then one begins to suspect that there is a void in my reasoning skills that would allow me to conclude that my actions are significant..



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dabbler
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16:45:23 Mar 30 2010
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The more complex behaviour has previously been foldered with the general Insanity label.. A few friends of mine in school for behavioural health are being told to throw out former conclusions, and a less broader brush is being used, a person with Multiple Disorders

example Manic Depressive, Obsessive compulsive, and Impulse Degression would 20 years ago be referred for Institution.. which would allow the person to eventual turn catatonic.. now the same person would be evaluated by a more researched criteria, and treated by tiers of therepy, and the patients back ground would be considered, as a number of cases are directly related tothe environment a person developed in, if said enviranment was disturbing, then that is factored into the treatment..

Duration of episodes is another criteria for sevarity of mental regression, how long does the person act irrational, and how long do delusions persist, how intent is the individual to act on same delusions..



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Angelus
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16:54:09 Mar 30 2010
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20 years ag? Thank Gawd not?
I was diagnosed manic in the early 80's.

And, in an insane world.. I figure I'm 'Sane.'



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dabbler
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16:57:27 Mar 30 2010
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You are fine functioning Nutter Mr Angelus



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Angelus
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16:59:41 Mar 30 2010
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**laughter**

functioning? aye. bout says it.



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dabbler
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17:01:12 Mar 30 2010
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Ahh.. but you are engaging, and not a disturbance..



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dabbler
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17:03:08 Mar 30 2010
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Sanity as a mask.. Scary



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dabbler
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17:08:12 Mar 30 2010
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Oops, premature Posting..

sanity as a Mask, is akin to Psycopaths, and sociopaths.

Invididuals void of general emotions, and lack impulse regulators.

Motivated by irrational ideals, or simple inable to sense anything exilerating for nonviolent, or mundane experiences.



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Angelus
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18:21:09 Mar 30 2010
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Sanity as a mask?? [I like that!]

'Invididuals void of general emotions, and lack impulse regulators...' sounds like me, after the first cheating fiancee!! [I learnt to shut off emotion, so as not to let a woman hurt me again. Then the next one came along and duplicated the actions of the first!



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dabbler
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19:29:56 Mar 30 2010
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I understand that tendancy to null ones emotional senses, just imagine *shivers* never having developed an emotional capacity..the mental equivlant of neoropathy, like never feeling a soft caress, or tickle..

only felling aggresive pressure from stimulation excedding simple touch.



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dabbler
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19:34:14 Mar 30 2010
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I will stop short of saying that all sociopaths, and psycopaths are insane, as even insane people have sane episoids, perhaps how a psycopath or sociopath responds to their pathology is the factor, BTK is an intresting case for the Mask that Psycopaths wear. In part "Too Sane".



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Abhisri
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22:49:08 Mar 30 2010
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I guess if by 'sane' I were to use general society's definitely, then I'm definitely off my rocker. I see things not many people can (i.e. ghosts/spirits). I also talk to these beings (they were alive once, just existing in a different form now). I also fully believe in dragons, I've seen quite a few.



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cadrewolf
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23:37:33 Mar 30 2010
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But in general all humanity has split personality in which we would presume to be insanity traits in the days of old., yet physcapaths claim insanity to get a better or lesser sentence when a crime is commtitted against the norms of society.

Sanity is a mask great point for all of humanity wears some sort of mask to cover the truth of themselves, insane or sane or the mask to cover ticks in ones life.



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Angelus
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14:09:42 Mar 31 2010
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I closed my last thread, because Cardewolf summed up well, all I'd wanted to say. kudos to you fella.. btw. you just did a similar thing here, I feel.

I genuflex, to you Sir.



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LadyDarkRayne
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05:24:22 Apr 01 2010
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Thgere are many levels of sanity. depends on what approuch you are taking on this. SOmeone may percieve a person that has extreme OCD as insane because of there need to do things a certain way, does that make them insane ?



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Angelus
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12:50:38 Apr 01 2010
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.. as you'll have gathered, I would not say OCD is insane. Insane is Mugabi. Insane is the actions of a politician who takes you to war for reasaons that are proven to be a lie.. not OCD.



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Angelus
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16:58:35 Apr 01 2010
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Insane is fighting for Peace.



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cadrewolf
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00:12:16 Apr 02 2010
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well stated, something that seems that humanity may never reach.



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Angelus
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00:53:10 Apr 02 2010
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.. as ever Cadre, succinctly said.



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dabbler
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17:26:52 Apr 02 2010
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peace is temperal, while harmony ( personal, and social) benifits diversity.

To nuture stable individuals a consistent atmosphere is required.

The factors that initiate wars must be addressed, truces are band-aids at best. Stress hangs in the air.



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vampchica4
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19:57:01 Apr 02 2010
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If you are the last sane person on earth, does that make you insane?



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dabbler
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20:07:23 Apr 02 2010
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Ah yes, quite the philosophers knob.

Well worded quandry..



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Angelus
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23:50:21 Apr 02 2010
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**looks around**

me? the last sane person alive??

**maniacal laughter fills the box**



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cadrewolf
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06:44:58 Apr 03 2010
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yet if we all thought logicaly does the sane words become insane as they go around the room. for words become manipulated when passed to person to person, so sane words become insane after the third person relay.



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Angelus
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23:20:13 Apr 03 2010
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oh dear Cadre, another thread killed by you??



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dabbler
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16:32:38 Apr 04 2010
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Cadre that is an example of Group Dynamics. The better the a group is synced the more accurate the final tranfer will be, however if one member
in the group is a weak link, the message is " doomed" at that point.

Group hysteria spreads the same way. All it takes is one, or two people to convince a few others of an irrational conclusion based on assumtion of an observed event that had obscure elements.



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markus666
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16:45:21 Apr 04 2010
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Well, let ask the question: Which of the mental disorders cause insanity? NONE. Insanity is a LEGAL term that refers to an inability to manage one's affairs or foresee the consequences of one's actions. Humans who are declared insane are not legally responsible for their actions. If necessary, they can be involuntary committed to a mental hospital. Legally, Insanity is established by testimony from expert witnesses, like psychologist and psychiatrist. Now, this world can make any body insane!!!! 2 cents to the subject!!!



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dabbler
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16:52:13 Apr 04 2010
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Spot on Markus..

btw good to see you back in forum.



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Daeva
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00:33:14 Apr 05 2010
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I was asked to post this excerpted part at the beginning of a long article on insanity. I put the main source and the direct source here.

Insanity, craziness or madness is a spectrum of behaviors characterized by certain abnormal mental or behavioral patterns. Insanity may manifest as violations of societal norms, including becoming a danger to themselves and others, though not all such acts are considered insanity. In modern usage insanity is most commonly encountered as an informal unscientific term denoting mental instability, or in the narrow legal context of the insanity defense. In the medical profession the term is now avoided in favor of diagnoses of specific mental illness such as schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders.[1] When discussing mental illness in general terms, "psychopathology" is considered a preferred descriptor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanity
1. L M Tierney, S J McPhee, M A Papadakis (2002). Current medical Diagnosis & Treatment. International edition. New York: Lange Medical Books/McGraw-Hill. pp. 1078–1086. ISBN 0-07-137688-7.



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TheFireWithin
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02:23:29 Apr 05 2010
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"What criteria do you use for sanity?"
I wouldn't know.... Maybe normal? But what's normal?

"Is there a "perk" to being a touch disturbed?"
I've been dubbed "insane", "disturbed", "crazy"..... The only perk to that is if my medication is making me act a bit funny, my NCO's leave me alone because they don't want me to snap.

"Do you feel that the terms "sane", and "insane" are obsolete? Why?"
They're only words. No one person has the same definition so only one can not be used....

"How do you interact with disturbed, or persons who have demonstarated unstable behaviour?"
My stepmother... there was no dealing with because she refuses to take her medication. And because I refused to put up with her shit, I was disowned from the family. You either get them to take their meds or don't live with them. There is only so much you can take before even the ones you love the most push you too far.

"What have you seen stablize, otherwise disturbed individuals?"
Again, I don't think I'm crazy but since I've been on my medication I've noticed I'm able to think more clearly. I'm able to tell whether I'm awake or asleep. I'm not only able to tell right from wrong but I'm also able to care whether or not I'm doing the right thing and less of it is on impulse.
I don't cry or come back swinging at the drop of a hat....



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Angelus
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20:59:32 Apr 05 2010
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...which I do.



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LoveChilde
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02:18:31 Apr 06 2010
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Well this certainly has been an interesting ride. To the Dabbler Quiz of the moment.

Question one. As a lawyer who represented criminal defendants whose "sanity" I questioned and people who were about to be locked away in "hospitals" for the "insane" I believe that "sanity" is a society's judgment on actions of their fellow human beings that they find so repugnant or so anti-social as to require removing them from society. It is an evolving judjmental attitude that changes with advances in psychological profiling, drugs and a better understanding of the human condition. At one time such things as blood feeding, practicing witchcraft, sodomy were considered "insane". During that same time period the murder of one's wife caught inflagranta delicto by her husband was not considered even temporary insanity but justifiable homicide. Thus, the "criteria" for sanity will continue to change for all the reasons stated above and so many more.



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LoveChilde
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02:40:08 Apr 06 2010
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Question Two: Are there perks? Many have suggested creativity is a result. I would argue that there are creative people that are sane and creative people that are insane. Does the insanity make them more creative or does the creativity lead to insanity? If the former, how do we explain the creativity of the sane? If the latter, how do we explain the continued sanity of the many creative souls? I don't know the answer but I don't believe that the "perks" are necessarily worth the price of true insanity.

Question Three: If you accept my answer to Question One then there are no absolutes as to sanity or insanity. Both terms are defined by society.

Question Four: As a lawyer, I was required by my profession to interact with disturbed or unstable persons. I used the defense of "insanity" in only two cases that I can remember. They were entirely different. The legal definition of insanity is that the person is either unable to determine between right and wrong or under a compulsion at the time of the act such that could not comprenend that that act they were comitting was wrong. In the one case there was a young girl [maybe 20 or so] who participated in a shoplifting scheme hatched by her "friends" where she would go into store, steal something, and leave and give it to her friends. I questioned her about it and she never understood that it was wrong. She only knew that it was fun and her friends liked her better if she did it. I sent her to the nearest mental hospital for an "evaluation" and they agreed with me. The charges were dropped but she was not realeased for some time.

The other was a harsh beating by a Vietnam vetran who made the people squat on their haunches while he held the prisoner with a gun. He was charged with kidnapping and several other felonies. We presented our defense of temporary insanity to the jury with the aid of a expert psychologist and the jury acquited him. he was institutionalized later on when he committed a similar act that resulted in someones death. He died in the institution.

Question Five: Drugs is the only thing that I have seen that "stabllized" anyone. I represented a man who, while on his drugs, was a normal and rational as one could be. However, his drugs had certain side effects that, he felt, impaired his thinking. So, he quiet taking them for a awhile and went back to running around naked and screaming in a "foreign tongue" according to his neighbors. I failed to convince the court that he deserved another chance. He was locked away.



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LoveChilde
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02:49:35 Apr 06 2010
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Question Three revisited. I meant to say that if you accept my answer to Question One, the terms "sane" and "insane" will never be obsolete as long as the laws of society must deal with "insanity".



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cadrewolf
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05:05:10 Apr 06 2010
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food for thought- great posting, love that last statement for the terms in which society claims seem to never be out dated just added too.



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cadrewolf
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05:05:24 Apr 06 2010
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food for thought- great posting, love that last statement for the terms in which society claims seem to never be out dated just added too.



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TheFireWithin
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05:15:19 Apr 06 2010
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He's definitely right on the whole sane/insane thing being what society deems it.... even the different parts of society.
Like, when I was in the hospital....
When I was in the military wing, they thought I was nuts because I was seeing and hearing things and talking to myself. I didn't know what was what.
Since they couldn't get me calm, they put me in the Patient Intensive Care Unit... Said I needed to be in a more calm environment to see if my meds were working properly.
Down there, they were all gone... mentally. That's where they keep all the really sick people and most of the ones in there never get out of the hospital because they're a danger to themselves and others.
To them, I was completely normal. I was the sane one.
And once my medications kicked in, I was glad to be out of there.
Even with all the beatings and near death experiences I had as a child, I have never been so scared in my life as I was in the PICU.
There was one male there who snuck up behind me to rub his face on one of my tattoos. I ended up elbowing him in the nose because he scared me so badly. I broke it and some of his teeth came out.
He said he did it because the pretty colors were calling to him and wanted to play.....



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dracken
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10:11:02 Apr 06 2010
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i would be in agreement to what (GalFriday) wrote about being in control of ones actions, sometimes it's hard not to be impulsive due to outside forces or the stresses in life, an old saying is count to ten, it should help before making thought's written or verbal and to walk away and find a good sensible reply later



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TheFireWithin
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14:21:29 Apr 06 2010
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If you can remember to count to ten.
Before I was diagnosed and put on the medication, someone would say something and I would swing before my mind even really registered what they said.
Or I'd start crying and I wouldn't know why.
Everything I did was on impulse and a lot people said it was just a bad case of acting before I think....
Not so. No matter how much I tried to control it, it ran me over and over and over again til I couldn't take it anymore.
The day I snapped and landed myself in the hospital, the said I tried to attack my Sergeant. They've got pictures of me being restrained by 2 other soldiers and finally being restrained between two litters.
I don't even recognize me in the pictures. The look on my face is pure, unadulterated, hate and evil.
I woke up tied to a hospital bed, begging them to let me go.
I had no idea what I'd done.
Try counting from ten on something you don't even remember doing.
The worst part, is when they told me everything, I got hateful and thought that I was in the right!
I was going to kill him and I saw nothing wrong with that at all!



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dabbler
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14:37:24 Apr 06 2010
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Well F4T, that is a fitting summation.

The consistent factor, is the disturbance of the individuals with questionable sanity.

Cross dressing, and Sodomy, are morally aprehensible to a portion of society, yet consenting individuals disturb no one in these acts ( exinitionist aside)

When an impaired person ( I like impaired over insane), creates an environment where others are severly disturbed, or face harm, intervention is needed.

Fine case examples btw.

The first one being a lesser degree, and the second more sever.

The matter of pleading insanity is cause for another thread some day.



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Angelus
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16:47:08 Apr 08 2010
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Food4Thought, to reitterate a comment I made earlier;
"If this society considers itself 'Sane', thank Frell that I'm labelled as I am.

What was it Marx said [Groucho, not Karl] 'I wouln't want to be in a clun that would have me as a member!'

Well, for me it's the other way round, as well!



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by TheRat on Oct 25 2010  •

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