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There arose in imperial Rome a revival of the cult of the ancient Greek God, Dionysius, the god of wine, know as Bacchus to the Romans. Worshippers would gather 5 nights per month to drink wine and perform the Bacchanal, where sexual inhibitions were discarded.

What do you know of this cult?

"The most powerful stories are a culture's creation story or a legend or belief that answers questions about the universe, such as the origin of the world, mankind and nature, man's place in the world, animals, life and death. The story of Dionysus, representing rebirth in the cycle of life, death and rebirth is also a creation story.

"After dismembering him, the Titans first boiled the pieces in water and afterwards roasted them. Pallas [Athena] rescued the heart of the murdered god, and by this precaution Bacchus (Dionysos) was enabled to spring forth again in all his former glory. Jupiter, the Demiurgus, beholding the crime of the Titans, hurled his thunderbolts and slew them, burning their bodies to ashes with heavenly fire. Out of the ashes of the Titans - which also contained a portion of the flesh of Bacchus, whose body they had partly devoured - the human race was created. Thus the mundane life of every man was said to contain a portion of the Bacchic life."
- Manly P. Hall(wiki) , Masonic, Hermetic, Quabbalistic & Rosicrucian Symbolical Philosophy

From the following link:
http://carnaval.com/bacchus/

I'm not sure about the cult of Bacchus , but i did come across some interesting information relating to a feast of Dionysus and blood sacrifice .

"In the early spring , towards the end of February or the beginning of March , the Greeks held a three day festival in honour of the spirits of the dead , called the Anthesteria . It was somewhat analogous to the "All saints" celebration of later times ; the Greeks believing that on those days the souls of the departed returned from Hades .

At this feast honour was paid to Dionysus , and garlands of flowers decorated homes , where abundant food and wine was sent out to welcome the return of the dead . Good and happy spirits were thought to come first , but in their train followed those who were miserable and evil , and these last were accompanied by the very demons themselves . Knotted ropes were tied round temples and sacred places to keep evil spirits out , while sprigs of the bush thorn ( or Crist thorn) were placed in windows to keep vampires and witches away .

Strangely enough , the Greeks thought that the spirits of their heroes returned to be enriched by the blood of the living , as well as did the dreaded vampires . It was therefore , possibly this idea which gave rise to the human sacrifices , which they made from time to time , believing that the blood of the victim contained magical properties , and that ghosts who tasted it received enchanted life . "

I'm not sure this has any relevance here , but i thought it was interesting .

i was completely unaware of the blood and vampire connection to bacchus.

i did know of the blood drinking traits of the egyption goddess sekhmet.

so holly was originally to keep vamps out?
~W~

well you have to remember that Greek lamia are a bit different than the traditional vampire image

I knew I'd read something about this , but couldn't remember where . I found this description of a Bacchanalian orgie in a book entitled "Transcendental Magic" by Eliphas Levi .

"There is no moon in the sky , but you can distinguish little stars gleaming in the brushwood, and may hear about you the slow flight of great birds, which seem to whisper strange oracles as they pass. Let us approach silently that crossroad among the rocks. A harsh, funeral trumpet winds suddenly, and black torches flare up on every side. A tumultuous throng is surging round a vacant throne : all watch and wait. Suddenly they cast themselves on the ground. A goat-headed prince bounds forward among them ; he ascends the throne , turns, and assuming a stooping posture , presents to the assembly a human face , which everyone comes forward to salute and kiss , their black tapers in their hands. With a horse laugh he recovers the upright position, and then distributes gold, secret instructions , occult medicines and poisons to his faithful bondsmen . Meanwhile, fires are lighted of fern and alder, piled up with human bones and the fat of executed criminals. Druidesses, crowned with wild parsley and vervain , immolate unbaptised children with golden knives and prepare horrible love-feats. Tables are spread , Masked men seat themselves by half-nude females, and a Bacchanalian orgie begins ; there is nothing wanting but salt, the symbol of wisdom and immortality. Wine flows in steams , leaving stains like blood ; obscene advances and abandoned caresses begin . A little while, and the whole assembly is beside itself with drink and wantonness , with crimes and singing. They rise , a disordered throng, and form infernal dances ..... Then come all legendary monsters , all phantoms of nightmare ; enormous toads play inverted flutes and thump with paws on flanks ; limping scarabaei mingle in the dance ; crabs play the castanets ; crocodiles beat time on their scales ; elephants and mammoths appear habited like Cupids and foot it in the ring : finally , the giddy circles break up and scatter on all sides ..... Every yelling dancer drags away a dishevelled female... Lamps and candles formed of human fat go out smoking in the darkness .... Cries are heard here and there , mingled with pearls of laughter , blasphemies and rattlings in the throat . Come, rouse yourself ; do not make the sign of the cross ! See , I have brought you home . You are in bed , not a little worn out , possibly a trifle shattered , by your nights journey and it's orgie ; but you have beheld that of which everyone talks without knowledge ; you have been initiated into secrets no less terrible than the grotto of Triphonius ; you have been present at the Sabbath . It remains for you now to preserve your wits , to have a wholesome dread of the law , and to keep at a respectful distance from the church and her faggots."

Ah!..As I promised Doru...:) I thought I'd perused this name before..in my book on Lectures of Ancient Philosophies by Manly P. Hall. :) Bacchus is part of the Pagan Theogony and Cosmogony...here's the excerpt:

"The theogony of Orpheus as set forth by Hesiod and interpreted by Proclus is divisible into three major parts, of which is first (in the words of Rev. James Davies) is concerned with cosmogony, or the creation of the world, its powers, and its fabric. The second part, or theogony proper, is concerned with the generations of the gods, and records the histories of the dynasties of Cronus and Zeus. The third part is concerned in a fragmentary way with the generation of heroes, who sprang from the intercourse of mortals with immortals. Both space and the purposes of this chapter limit us to a consideration of the first (or cosmological) division, together with a brief outline of the generation of Cronus and the rebellion of the Titans.

In the beginning, declare the Orphic fragments, was the Absolute-unborn, unaging, and undying Time. Here Time is conceived to be in a state of suppression; for as Time depends for its reality upon the succession of incidents, it cannot exist actively until the establishment of the worlds. Time is the perfect Wholeness which encompasses all manifestations as a mysterious intangible envelope. Within the divine sphere of Time existences live and move and have their being. From this inscrutable Wholeness there issue forth two agents designating Ether and Chaos, or the Bound and the Infinity. Thus in the terms of the ancient symbolism, "the One becomes the Two." The first of these agents-Ether-is called the Bound because as a symbol of primordial activity it is limited as to place, condition, and duration. Chaos, which in some systems of cosmogony is elevated to the position of first deity, takes second place, when compared to the enduring Wholeness, Being unlimited, unorganized, and without sense of Time, it is properly termed Infinity.

These two opposites-Bound and Infinity-acting each upon the other, destroy the placidity of the eternal state. Ether, the active agent, is symbolized as a vast whirlwind which moves the surface of Chaos, and out of its unorganized substances forms a great ovoid, termed by the ancients the Orphic or Cosmic Egg. This Egg is usually represented as encircled by the coils of the great serpent (the Ether). The substances of the Egg, having been impregnated by the divine Ether, "increase from within outward." The fertilized Egg expands and finally bursts assunder to reveal the Triple-Dragon God Phanes, who is called the "Divine or Absolute Animal." Phanes is described as "an incorporeal God, bearing golden wings on his shoulders; but in his inward parts naturally possessing the heads of bulls, upon which heads a mighty dragon appears, invested with the various forms of wild beasts." The point is also repeatedly emphasized that Phanes, while possessing wings and a human head, is without a body, his entire being consisting of a vast ring of radiant effulgence. The ancient commentaries (especially those of the Neoplatonists) identify Phanes with the Cherubin of Ezekiel and the composite monster of the Chaldaic-Egyptian Mysteries. The bulls' head signify the constellation of Taurus; the lion's head, which Phanes is sometimes said to have, is the constellation of Leo; the dragon is the constellation of Scorpio; and the human head with wings upon its neck is the constellation of the god-man, Aquarius. Thus the four heirarchies called the Lords of Generations are set forth.

Phanes is referred to as the "triple God" because he is a triad of powers, with himself a the principle, or monad, and Ericapaeus and Metis as his lesser aspects. As Phanes represents spiritual light and life, it is natural that his consort, or Sakti, should represent spiritual darkness, or the medium through which the light manifests. The Mother of the Gods was therefore called the Threefold Night, and she alone mingled in perfect union with Phanes, who is described as giving her his scepter that she might in queenly manner rule his world. By right of her threefold powers Night brought forth two children, the first of her progeny, called Heaven and Earth. The Heaven and Earth born of the union of Night and Phanes are the spheres of the noumenon and phenomenon which form such essential elements in the philosophy of Immanuel Kant.

Heaven and Earth are then united in marriage, and in the words of G.R.S. Mead, "From their union arises a strange and curious progeny, the Fates (Parcae), Hundred-handed (Centimani), and They-who-see-all-round (Cyclops). These were the first progeny of Heaven and Earth, and were cast down to Tartarus, for they worked within all things, and so, as evolution proceeded, permeated every kingdom of nature. But then, without the knowledge of Heaven, Earth brought forth, says Orpheus, 'seven fair daughters, bright-eyed, pure, and seven princely sons, covered in hair;' and these are called the 'avengers of their brethren.' And the names of the daughters are Themis and Tethys, Mnemosyne and Thea, Dione and Phoebe, and Rhea; and of the sons, Coeus and Crius, Phorcys and Cronus, Oceanus and Hyperion, and Iapetus. And these are the Titans."

Under the leadership of Cronus all the Titans save Oceanus rebelled against Heaven and established the Material Sphere, Cronus became ruler of the Titans, which position he held until Zeus, leading his giants, overthrew the empire of Cronus and established the Physical Universe. We are told in the commentaries that the last of the heavenly line is BACCHUS, in whom the generations of Uranus, or Heaven, are complete. In the Orphic theogony then follows the order of the supermundane and mundane gods, which accounts of the heroes and those who were eleveated to a parity with divinity because of the immortal spirit that led them to the pinnacle of achievement."

I've a question, Doru...regarding Bacchus as the last of the line of Heaven...what do you...or anyone else...believe is to be learned from studying this paritcular deity of the Roman pantheon?

I think what Doru is getting at is that there was a time every month that they let their inhibitions drop, and just enjoyed themselves. Much like vampires do at certain times. I think he was trying to see if anyone knew anything to further his understanding, and to see if anyone could elaborate on the vampire connection

The cult of Bacchus
Posted: 21:06:33 - Dec 07 2010
Times viewed: 13

"I've a question, Doru...regarding Bacchus as the last of the line of Heaven...what do you...or anyone else...believe is to be learned from studying this paritcular deity of the Roman pantheon?"

For centuries women were condemned for fulfilling their sexual desires, even today women do not share the same liberation that men enjoy. Nonetheless, The Cult of Bacchus demonstrated that everyone should not be ashamed of their desires and should seek to fulfill them.

"Complete gratification of all one's sensual desires", is not sinful, it is necessary for the fulfillment of life. All people are carnal and to deny this fact, is to deny your nature.

You must feed the physical needs as well as the appetite for spiritual or intellectual needs.

All Hail Bacchus!

Just read this and seems appropriate for the season:

Few Americans know that Santa descends from the mock king who held court at Saturnalia, the Roman festival celebrating the winter solstice. Or that he shares cultural DNA with the Lord of Misrule who presided over the yuletide Feast of Fools in the Middle Ages—lewd, blasphemous revels that gave vent to underclass hostility toward feudal lords and the all-powerful church.

I figured he was Hollywood's True Story of Saint Nicholas.

i don't think that treating people right should be the primary significance of a cult, or the sex part, considering that's the entire reason some religions were founded. there still remains a huge difference between meeting a physical need and simply allowing oneself to go absolutely wild with it.
i'd like to learn a little more about this, if someone here has more info on it?

I hope this provides further understanding of the cult:



The ancient Roman calendar had only ten months and started the year on 1 March. It was dedicated to Roman God of War, Mars who was honored daily with parades of the priests of Mars dancing through the streets. The culmination of the year end celebration was March 16 and 17th which were the feast days of Bacchus which was how Dionysus was known throughout the Roman empire. Fear of a powerful non-roman religious hierarchy resulted in restrictions by Senate decree in 186 AD which were not repealed until Julius Caesar was in power. Into this vacuum flowed numerous other cults whose mythic stories often replayed the great cosmic drama of life-death-rebirth. The backdrop was the Mediterranean and particularly the world's first great multicultural community of Rome.

Today, as above, we continue to use the symbol of a festive baby for our commemoration of New Year's. Meanwhile, for those cities fortunate to have an annual Carnaval parade, your most likely find the best repository for the ancient rhythms and dances of the rite which celebrates rebirth in this cosmic dance.

Neo-Platonism [wiki], attempted the reconciliation of the antiquated religions with the advanced moral and intellectual ideas of its own time by spiritual interpretation of outgrown cult stories and cult practices several times over the course of history including the change from Christianity to the Roman Catholic Church. Yet the tension between Apollo and Dionysos-Bacchus has never been far below the surface, as revelations seek a communion with truth. A powerful revitalizing force from vital Oriental religions who entered the Roman arena wtih the advent of the Great Mother of the Gods in B. C. 204 and never left despite the downfall of paganism at the end of the fourth century continues to the present. The eventual triumph of Christianity in the age of Pisces must be considered an evolution in these mysteries.

The Great Mother and Attis, with self-consecration, enthusiasm, and asceticism; Isis and Serapis, with the ideals of communion and purification; Baal, the omnipotent dweller in the far-off heavens; Jehovah, the jealous God of the Hebrews, omniscient and omnipresent; Mithra, deity of the sun, with the Persian dualism of good and evil, and with after-death rewards and punishments--all these, and more, flowed successively into the channel of Roman life

ROMAN EMPIRE: Dionysus, Orpheus, Attis, Serapis-Osirus, Mithras and Jesus were all gods whose cult adherents believed had died and risen again. Mystery cults offered their believers access to a personal relationship with the divine that would offer them a meaningful peace in their human existence, and more importantly, a belief in a new life that transcended death in after world. Worshippers would also experience a personal initiation or baptism in which a special ceremony would reveal secrets only to be known by members. Cult ceremonies often included hymns and ritual feasts. Most observed a calendar of yearly celebrations which might be preceded by periods of ritual preparation by members.


Senatus Consultum de Bacchanalibus
Roman, 186 B.C Bronze;
L: 27,3 cm, W: 28,5 cm

This inscription from the year 186 B. C. is the oldest surviving Senatorical Decree and an important document in the history of the Latin language.
The popularity with citizens of the Roman Empire, and their own different hierarchical nature in terms of deference paid to priests disturbed Rome's political/religious leadership. As the priests, were often not Roman, and not of the 'best' social background it was perceived that there was an undermining of Roman values concerning gender, status and class. When cult popularity advanced ethnically distinct groups within Rome, the Roman rulers grew concerned. Cults that refused to participate in the multicultural milieu of pagan worship like Christianity further increased Roman suspicion and raised the ire of all Roman citizens.

The organization of cults was specific and hierarchical. While some might allow any to be priest or priestess, others, such as high priests of Isis were at first limited by birth to the priestly caste based in Egypt. Most cults, including the Bacchic, were democratic in their membership allowing women and men worshipped together regardless of ethnic or social caste.

Roman women of the senatorial elite frequently played major roles as patrons of and participants in mystery cults. While traditional Roman, public religion offered a place for women, it did not offer them much of an active role in ritual observations and, with very few exceptions, offered them no positions of religious authority. Female worshippers of Dionysus were called Bacchants and celebrations in his honor were called the Bacchanalia.

Originally the Roman initiation into the cult of Bacchus was attended by women only, on three days in the year in the grove of Simila near the Aventine Hill, around March 16 and 17. But democratic growth brought all sexes and classes into a weekly observance. The growth of the powerful female priesthood attracted the attention of the Roman Senate.

The Bacchic cult had been established in Greece for centuries and was established in Etruria and southern Italy long before Senatorial decree of 186 BCE and for some time in Rome as well.


The Roman fertility deities Liberia and Liber became synonymous with Bacchanalia although Liberia resembled the Greek agricultural goddess Persephone more than Dionysus' wife Ariadne All three goddesses are preservers of marriage and the sacred law

Thus, the Senate's action was taken against a cult it had tolerated for a long while but whose influence was growing and whose hierarchy threatened the elite. The free participation in Dionysian rites by slaves and free, Romans and foreigners, and men and women was undermining the rank of the powerful men. The "ecstatic" practices - which included drink and an encounter with the god described in erotic language might be found unsettling or even threatening.

While much of the Roman propaganda against the cult focused on critiques of ritual practice, the Senate's edict was, in fact, directed only against the hierarchical organization of the cult. It forbade Romans to be priests. It forbade adherents to share money and property in kind. It forbade adherents to recognize the authority of Bacchic priests in their daily lives. Thus, devotees of Bacchus could get drunk and have sex as much as they liked, as long as their worship didn't create a structure of social and religious authority that members of the Senatorial elite could not control. Similarly, in the propaganda Livy reiterates attacks on the role of women in the cult, what appears to have prompted at least part of the Senatorial response was the fact that cult had begun to become popular with Roman men. Thus the existing cult structure would have permitted women authority over the lives of male adherents.

Nevertheless, as throughout the empire, the cult of Dionysus continued to remain the most practiced and popular, yet the action no doubt enhanced the advantage to rival cults. The women only cult of Bon Dia, where the name Bacchus could not be mentioned appears to have become the place for the elite women of Rome.

From the following link:
http://www.carnaval.com/bacchus/history/

Blood Mother have you heard of Portland, OR, and other towns Santa Rampage? Your post remined me of that.

Santas Run Amuk spraying what appears to be Windex into each others mouths (Bombay Sappire Gin).

I need a squeeze of lemon with my windex.

Found this in 'The Greek myths', volume 1 , by Robert Graves.

"Since revising "The Greek Myths" in 1958 , I have had second thoughts about the drunken god Dionysus, about the Centaurs with their contradictory reputation for wisdom and misdemeanour's , and about the nature of the divine ambrosia and nectar . These subjects are closely related , because the Centaurs worshipped Dionysus, whose wild autumnal feast was called 'the Ambrosia'. I no longer believe that they had intoxicated themselves solely on wine or ivy-ale . The evidence suggests that Satyrs (goat-totem tribesmen), Centaurs (horse-totem tribesmen), and their Maenad womenfolk, used these brews to wash down mouthfuls of a far stronger drug : namely a raw mushroom , amanita muscaria, which induces hallucinations, senseless rioting, prophetic sight, erotic energy, and remarkable muscular strength . Some hours of ecstasy are followed by complete inertia."

Blah blah... , goes on about the use of other mushrooms by the Centaur's , gives various examples of depictions in Greek art , continues with

"The 'gods' for whom, in the myth, ambrosia and nectar were reserved, will have been sacred queens and kings of pre-Classical era. King Tantalus's crime was that he broke the taboo by inviting commoners to share his ambrosia. Sacred queenships and kingships lapsed in Greece; ambrosia then became, it seems , the secret element of the Eleusinian, Orphic and other mysteries associated with Dionysus. At all events, the participants swore to keep silence about what they ate or drank, saw unforgettable visions , and were promised immortality. "

Thanks for the information Doru. I had forgotten about that with Bacchus....and I know a bit about Greek Mythology....Maybe you could teach me more?

Complete inertia always seems to follow hours of ecstasy. The only cure is a change of centaur and a different mushroom.

Did somebody mention G n T ? Drugs and sex often accompany expanding cults, that aside I must agree. The Druids used flyagaric muscaria, now whether this use of mushrooms was from siberia or Roman or Viking is blurred.In all probability everybody was at it, there was no Tv or cinemas and books were pricey so chess, sex and getting high were about it. The Romans also made "blood pits" to Mithras, full of sacrificial animals.The chances are they would blood themselves(as in the fox hunt) and mix wine with blood before campaigns. Is there evidence the Cult continued abroad, some funny things occur in Wiltshire.I have heard of cults meeting around the stones on the Salisbury plane areas.

I don't know much about the cult itself but I am personally more familiar with the god bacchus himself.

He's not only the god of wine and of ritual madness and ecstasy but also the god of epiphany which made him a driving force behind (greek) theater. He was an outsider to the other gods. Being the son of Zeus(Jupiter) and a mortal. So he was a demi-god.

Dionysus was an ancient Thracian god before being adopted in the Greek pantheon.Of course the origin of the cult is debated, but the influence of the Thracian pantheon over the Ancient Greek one can not be rejected.
Before being Roman and Greek this god was Thracian, just like the cults of Apollo, Artemis, Orpheus, Ares, Hermes, Pan and others.

After the studies of Dumezil on the ancient European pantheon or (let`s not avoid the term) Arian deities, it should be clear that the root of it`s name comes from the ancient DIO that in all the Arian languages means GOD.

He was confounded with Sabazios and some related him with Zamolxes.

Also let`s not forget that the public(exoteric) part of the cult was the source of the modern theatre.
I found some info related to the places where the theatre was born please read on this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysos,_Greece

He was known as:

Bromios ("the thunderer" or "he of the loud shout")
Dithyrambos referring to his premature birth
and also called
Eleutherios ("the liberator"), an epithet for both Dionysus
Because of this last name, and because of his capacity of morphing into animals(usually a goat - tragos in Greek), Mircea Eliade considered him an impersonation of our inner wild side: "The stranger in ourselves, the feared antisocial forces unleashed by the divine adornment."

His first known representations are on the Greek vases like this one dating from the VI century B.C.:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Exekias_Dionysos_Staatliche_Antikensammlungen_2044.jpg

Here is a representation of his cult in one of the houses from Pompeii.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Pompeji-VillaOfMysteries.jpg


If you want to know more about the mysterious cult(more about the exoteric not esoteric side) please search for Lenaia and Dionysia.

Doru, thank you for the great topic.

going back a bit, santa is a mix of a number of things including the norse god Odin. read a rather long book about that once.

altho this is a very interesting topic, and im learning alot, does anyone find what could be called a vampire connection here?
~W~