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ContessaIsabella
ContessaIsabella

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15:34:01 Oct 03 2011
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This story relates to the article posted below.
Apparently a man in Italy attended Mass at a Church, during the ceremony he pulled out his own eyeballs.

What on earth would make somebody do this?
Angels, Deamons, some Holy Spirit or was it just somebody who had a mental illness taking the bible too literally? Your vies and knowledge on other similar incidents please?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3849743/Man-rips-out-own-eyes-in-church.html




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SinginGhost88
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16:19:21 Oct 03 2011
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Schizophrenic break perhaps. Much like the man on the greyhound bus. I would cry 'Demon' just yet, without knowing the mans past mental health history.



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starfields
starfields

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17:09:11 Oct 03 2011
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Intense psychosomatic pain in/around the eyes can cause this. Like people who drill holes in their heads in a desperate attempt to relieve a headache or cutting themselves with razor blades to alleviate unbearable pressure.



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ContessaIsabella
ContessaIsabella

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17:34:20 Oct 03 2011
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Has this pressure ever been measured?
Or is this a medical guess?

Reminds me of Dr's leech therapy in the 18th century, after all 99.9% of people with mental illness do not pull out out their eyeballs and why during "mass"

The two certainly seem linked, if only by a tortured mind.



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ZomIV
ZomIV

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19:13:59 Oct 03 2011
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I take the Bible 100% literally.

Perhaps he just thought it was a good day for eye removal.



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n8typeO
n8typeO

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20:48:42 Oct 03 2011
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maybe some sort of mental episode and/or maybe he saw something that scared him so bad he thought it was the only way to make the visions stop



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NeverrNeverrmore
NeverrNeverrmore

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21:28:45 Oct 03 2011
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I believe the guy was just insane. I have never heard of something like that happening unless someone was on drugs or had a mental illness. Though, religion has been known make people do some crazy shit.


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ZomIV
ZomIV

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22:02:53 Oct 03 2011
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Insane?

After almost 38 years on this mudball, what this person did sounds completely sane to me.



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NeverrNeverrmore
NeverrNeverrmore

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22:12:42 Oct 03 2011
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Well, it is my personal opinion, a key ingrediant to further a discussion. If you believe otherwise, then do elaborate so that you can actually add to the conversation and not have your post deleted. Good luck.


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ZomIV
ZomIV

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22:20:36 Oct 03 2011
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Elaboration not necessary. My point stands on it's own. If you missed my point, that is not my fault.

Also, my discussion is not with you nnm.



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RomanianBoy90
RomanianBoy90
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01:29:57 Oct 04 2011
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sounds like the guy was just crazy! either that or just wanted the attention..hmm maybe his eye was fake?



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Owlish
Owlish
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02:46:53 Oct 04 2011
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I'd put it down to some sort of mental illness. Sadly, strong religious beliefs seem only to add to delusions (If movies are anything to go by...) and it would seen perfectly acceptable to pluck out your eyeballs if God or Jesus told you to.
He may not even be crazy per say. People interpret religion in different ways.



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DAVYDENKO
DAVYDENKO

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03:16:23 Oct 04 2011
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I would have said sheer boredom....but that's a little over the top...then I would have said...fanaticism...after all it fits the profile...but that implies a form of dedication...so I guess I have to go with sacrifice. I think this is only a prelude to an even greater trend that will arise in the coming year.



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SireHecate
SireHecate

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04:02:54 Oct 04 2011
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If thine eye offend thee pluck it out as the scripture states. There's a history of sever body mortification with Catholics of certain countries. There are still flagellants who beat themselves until bloody, as a sign of their godly commitment



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ContessaIsabella
ContessaIsabella

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05:08:43 Oct 04 2011
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The strength and dedication to pull out both eyes is something navy seals would admire.

I wonder why his eyes offended god? must be a mascara thingy.



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SinginGhost88
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10:42:14 Oct 04 2011
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A number of personality disorders, especially Schizophrnia and Borderline personality Disorder have a long list of people who have harmed themselves in devastating ways. Not only this, but the article states that the voices had told him to do it? Auditory hallucinations.
When someone is in the depths of a psychotic or schizophrenic episode, it is almost as if they are removed from themselves, viewing their actions and body from inside their own head. Physical pain is dulled making it possible for humans to do the unthinkable to their bodies. So it stands to reason that gouging his eyes out is totally possible.
One book I read was of a woman who recounted her story about the developments, pique and finally management of her Schizophrenia. At one point she describes digging into her foot with glass until she reached the bone. Afterwards, running out into the snow with said foot still bleeding and gouged out. (The book was called 'Welcome Silence' by Carol North)
There have been other recordings of people with personality disorders on the extreme end of the spectrum, who have ripped parts of their skin off, lopped off fingers and other such self inflicted acts of harm.
I am not ruling out an evil prscence however there a lot we dont know about the dude. You would have to ask the man if he was ever emotionally triggered by Mass, or attending church. Perhaps it was one or a series of precipitating events that occured, and the mass ceremony was the catylist for this unfortunate event.



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ContessaIsabella
ContessaIsabella

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06:12:44 Oct 05 2011
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I wonder if neuro-science is now sufficiently advanced to detect if the "voices" are generated in the subjects normal brain areas or if they are generated in higher areas of the brain?
Wouldn't it be interesting if the impulses were generated in areas of the brain associated with dream state?



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SinginGhost88
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06:22:52 Oct 05 2011
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I believe there is research completed on that matter, something I'll look into!!! I think I have read something in the past about what areas of the brain are stimulated or shut down when a person is experiencing a psychotic episode.

Thanks for the idea. I'll post here if I find anything :)



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SinginGhost88
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06:25:58 Oct 05 2011
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http://www.schizophrenia.com/disease.htm

It's not from the American Psychiatric Association, but is a credible educational resource.



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ContessaIsabella
ContessaIsabella

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06:46:49 Oct 05 2011
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You are welcome, I ask as many societies do not think such disorders are entirely chemical/brain imbalances.

Many believe they are "dis-ease" of a spiritual nature, interfering third parties if you like.
Autism is also under scrutiny.

I wonder if the "dark energy/ Emf's are involved.

If so we cannot detect their presence using conventional technology.

An entity may occupy the same neurological pathways but in a completely different dimension or at an undetectable frequency.

4th dimensional parasites?



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ContessaIsabella
ContessaIsabella

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07:05:33 Oct 05 2011
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As a caveat, this would also explain humans being "turned" during sex etc

Also why some do not survive the process and why some go mad, such as this poor fellow at the Church.

It would also explain the 3 gifts...some speak of.

Not only would an entity know everything in your own mind, a superior intellect from another dimension may view this as a symbiotic relationship.

After all, some manic depressives such as Stephen Fry are extraordinarily smart.



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SinginGhost88
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09:31:51 Oct 05 2011
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It's an interesting theory, one that I think is totally possible, we just don't know.

What you suggest reminds me of the idea that your body mind and soul are connected. When someone experiences trauma within their soul, or a difficulty, this may develop into a physical symptom or illness. So perhaps it's possible for this to happen to the mind as well.

Entertaining the idea that a prescence invades a person's mind and brain... its plausible that a person may not survive this, or may 'go crazy'.



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LegionofGabriel
LegionofGabriel

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16:46:17 Oct 05 2011
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“If one were to take the bible seriously one would go mad. But to take the bible seriously, one must be already mad.” Aleister Crowley

I think that pretty much sums it up.



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Cabrion
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19:26:34 Oct 05 2011
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^ Your validity is off.

The somataform pain that causes people to do things like that has been measured and documented but the measurements vary. He could have been in any amount of pain, but more likely he had an imbalance.
There's a verse in the bible that says something along the lines of "If your eyes have led you to evil, it is best you cut them out to spare the rest of you". It was supposed to put things into perspective, not to be taken literally. What are the leash laws in Italy I wonder...



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SireHecate
SireHecate

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20:30:46 Oct 05 2011
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Well the pain itself is like an intoxicant, almost alcoholic trancing effect on some people as they see what they're doing as virtuous, and a sign of spiritual growth.



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dabbler
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22:16:05 Oct 05 2011
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I think they exaggerate the strength required to pluck out they eyes.



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ContessaIsabella
ContessaIsabella

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05:25:22 Oct 06 2011
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Pain and suffering are a useful plea to the Gatekeeper...see my entry on E+MC2 (The crying Monkey)



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SinginGhost88
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06:26:54 Oct 06 2011
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I'm inclined to agree with Dabbler on that point.



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ContessaIsabella
ContessaIsabella

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06:33:47 Oct 06 2011
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Interesting, how would you know?

I,ll trust the surgeon that treated the poor fellow...i.e. it ain't easy...



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SinginGhost88
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07:28:48 Oct 06 2011
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No idea.. I would think the strength would be from being able to do it regardless of the pain. I wouldn't think it would take much physical strength to pull someone's eyes from their sockets, they aren't attached by much more than tissue.



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Vagaa
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22:45:19 Oct 07 2011
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he must have taken that bible verse too literal about the eyes offending and the plucking out. some religious people do extreme things thinking it will prove themselves to their god



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Silverhawk
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23:05:46 Oct 07 2011
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Actually...your eyes are attached by so much more than just tissue SingingGhost...the surgeon is correct, it would take a tremendous amount of strength to rips one's own eyes from their sockets...it is more likely he gouged them and ruptured the balls...to actually rip the globes "out?"...sounds far-fetched and over-written in the news there.

Simply...the anatomy of the eyeball...it is an extension of the brain...thus attached to the brain by the rather large cord-like optic nerve and also held into place by six muscles responsible for eye movement and alignment....and also cushioned and surrounded by orbital fat, fascia, eyelids, lashes...the lids themselves are thicker than one would think.

The eye itself does not have much blood in it but vitreous...a jelly-like material that acts as a shock absorber from traumatic injury. The amount of blood reported is most likely from self-inflicted lacerations to the eyelids surrounding the eyes and not the actual injury of the eyeballs themselves. The lids are pumping with some of the smallest of arteries and can pump out a good volume in no time at all....just watch a youtube on Blepharoplasty...aka...Droopy Old Eyelid Lifts...bloody good mess if you ever want to see one...;)

God...I miss Day surgery...:P



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Silverhawk
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23:07:39 Oct 07 2011
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oh ...one more thing...:P

May as well pluck your brain out through your own nose...all you need is an ice pick right?...o.O Ickkk...:P



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SinginGhost88
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16:21:13 Oct 08 2011
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*shudders*

Yuck. I always assumed the eyes were only connected by strands of tissue, not that complicated. Should have known, anything attached to the brain is going to be more complex than just mere tissue.

Here's something I read today though that reminded me of this discussion. Psychologist Julian Jayes created a theory that in 2000 B.C.E. humans had no introscpective consciousness, essencially their minds were divided in two and the left hemispehere followed commands from the right. These commands were in the form of auditory hallucinations, and interpreted as Gods.

On top of this, patients who under go split brain surgery, where one half of the brain is fully removed, may experience havin to battle their own hands. Alien Hand syndrome.

What if it is a combination of these two things, caused by a lack of communication between the two brain hemispheres that caused this man to tear out his eyes????



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SishFish
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23:27:59 Oct 08 2011
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I work with the mentally ill, and I can tell you 99.9% do engage in some sort of self injury, it's all a matter of what it is. All behaviors are a result of something, you just have to be good at figuring out what the trigger is.



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SireHecate
SireHecate

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00:58:27 Oct 09 2011
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Sish, I've worked with mentally ill people myself and there's a lot organically involved



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by Vampirewitch39 on Nov 10 2011  •

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