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Just love this topic, I do believe some here sure don't these believe people help the police.

This link is from the ABC channel and well worth the watch.

I have not watched the show but will be looking out for it.

I think there is more to this than meets the eye, what do you think?

I believe that some people do this, I just don't believe every person who claims to do it can. There was that one lady, her name Sylvia Browne...I don't know if she ever helped the police but she made her "gift" public and then she was wrong on many accounts as what she said to someones child didn't actually happen. Then she refused to admit she was wrong.

I personally believe that future events can change even when predicted, as the future is in a constant state of movement. However..to say something happened when there is evidence that it happened a completely different way, is just stupid.

I am not saying all people are this way when it comes to these things, but I am saying that not every person who claims to have these abilities, really do have these abilities. I think a lot of the things we see on tv are staged, because we don't personally know what is going on behind the scenes. We only see probably 23 or 25 minutes of showtime per show, on most cases anyway, some are probably 45 minutes if it's an hour show. I'm not saying that everything is false though. I'm just saying there are some people who like to take advantage of the system and peoples belief in things. Not that this situation is that though.

I have to agree that the future is in constant flux. Even those who can predict the future can't do it with complete accuracy. Decisions yet made can't be predicted, though one might be able to predict what is likely to be chosen. Personally I've only had two premonitions that turned out to be true, both involving the death of my own family members. With other people I've had visions, but they are always chaotic and swirling, never defined and concise.

I don't discount that there are people out there who can more clearly see what is likely to happen in future events, but I think there are far fewer then publicity would have us think. There is also the fact that once future events are known, they can be changed, perhaps even just knowing them might cause them to change. I know that one of my premonitions could have been altered had we not taken that path, but I couldn't convince them not to take it.

Predicting the future is a tricky business at its' best and a terrible falsehood at its' worst.

Just my two cents.

~Darken

That is very true. It's our choices that make our future become what it is. If we know it then perhaps the choice we may make to avoid it or even something really small could change it. In a way it is like time travel..messing up what was going to happen, except on a smaller scale. If the future is predicted then that reading of a person or your self can be altered, either by telling another person or by simply knowing for your self. I suppose in an alternate reality all things come true at some point or another or in many different realities.

Now the past is much easier to tell. This is because what has happened in the past is set in stone, because we cannot undo what has been done. This I could see if someone had evidence of certain things but could not find them, then perhaps they could find out where a person was rather where they are going to be, which makes more sense to me.

Yeah, I find post-cognition much easier then pre-cognition, and much more prevalent in people able to do it. Especially since the things we do leave an imprint in the energy, like a ripple from a pebble in the pond. Reading the energy of something that has already taken place leaves no room for alterations, as you said it's already set in stone, as opposed to pre-cognition with infinite possibilities.

~Darken

Sometimes things, injustice, violence, pleas for help can cross dimensions. It is always vague.
What really grips my shit is when people embellish it to make money and Tv series.

Any one remember Crossing Over With John Edward? That really got to me. He was shown to be a fraud eventually, but how many people did he make money off of giving them hope to then have it crushed?

~Darken

I believe there are four different types of people in this sorta situation.

You have the people who want to believe it because psychologically we are told after a certain age that magick and psychic powers do not exist. The people who spend their money on things like this, they want to believe in it so much and to have a difference that they will believe anyone someone says.

The second person is the person who sees people believing in these things to be a weakness or an advantage. They see it as a means to get what they want but since they don't personally believe it..they use logic and science to figure and explain it all to people.

The third person is a person who actually can and is able to perform these acts. However..these such people usually do not announce their gift to the public. I'm sure some are in here reading this right now.

Then there is the fourth person, who believes nothing of what anyone says or anything related to this sort of subject. They are the skeptic who doubts anything "supernatural."



In my personal opinion I am sure that the people who just use others to get money will eventually be found out. This isn't to say that everything we see on tv is false, because sometimes it isn't. It's just hard to tell of what is real and what is not. In the end we don't really know until they uncover it. However, if a person or persons really is helping the police, then that's great. I think it's good that there are a lot of people to be open minded about these things. We just must remember that there is always the chance that someone is faking it all.

"Especially since the things we do leave an imprint in the energy, "

Yes Darken,it is known as the Akashic record....

source, holy smoke.org

The World's Greatest Spirit Medium
WAS A FRAUD!
No matter how often the confidence scammers are exposed, those who believe will happily continue to pay cold hard cash to be deceived. The believers are not victims of the miracle workers: they are willing, eager, happy participants in their own betrayal (usually in the form of cash money, real estate, jewels, and expensive works of art). That they can believe that which cannot be believed is a mark of how well so-called "psychics," palmists, spoon benders., etc., know the business of deception. The fact that not even one miracle worker has ever demonstrated, in properly controled conditions, even one "psychic" or "paranormal" ability or phenomena is lost upon true believers--- they just do not care. They would rather believe a lie.

"The true-believer syndrome merits study by science. What is it that compels a person, past all reason, to believe the unbelievable? How can an otherwise sane individual become so enamored of a fantasy, an imposture, that even after it's exposed in the bright light of day he still clings to it--- indeed, clings to it all the harder?

"The true-believer syndrome is the greatest thing phony mediums have going for them. No amount of logic can shatter a faith consciously based on a lie."

© M. Lamar Keene, the world's greatest spirit medium. Quoted from pg. 151, The Psychic Mafia, 1997, Prometheus Books 1-57392-161-0.

You would think that confidence scams would be against the law, right? Well, you would think correctly. However, in the USA such practices are protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, and even more strongly protected by over two hundred years of hands-off precedent. Law enforcement in the USA has nearly always shunned bringing religious-based criminals to court to answer for their crimes: the USA government does not wish to appear to be "persecuting churches." As Lamar Keene pointed out:

"To make my renunciation of mediumship complete, I knew there were other things I yet had to do. Seeking out a Masonic friend, I poured forth to him the whole story. At my request he went with me to the authorities. I turned myself in to the Internal Revenue Service for evasion of income tax. (I eventually paid all back taxes in full.) I also visited the FBI, the county sheriffs office, and the state attorney-general. To all these I made full confession of my years of fraud.

"No police investigation of any medium was launched as a result of my action nor, to my knowledge, did the Internal Revenue Service look into the matter of mediumistic bookkeeping. One reason for official reluctance to do anything may be an exaggerated concept of religious liberty. Apparently the last thing a public official in this country wants is for some sect like the spiritualists to scream bloody murder about religious persecution. At any rate, whatever the reason, the mediums continue unmolested.

"As a matter of fact, my former partner is doing better than ever[....]"

© M. Lamar Keene, the world's greatest spirit medium. Quoted from pg. 153, The Psychic Mafia, 1997, Prometheus Books 1-57392-161-0.

This dispite the fact that Keene confessed to fraud, theft, burglary, robbing the dead, picking pockets, and tax evasion ("all in a day's work," as the American saying goes, for spirit mediums).

Do you believe in "psychic phenomena?" Do you believe people can "talk to the dead?" Do you believe that some people can heal with just a touch or a shout of "Praise Jezuz!" or other incantation? Or do you think these things are silly, and yet still believe in astrology, I Ching, chiropractic, homeopathy, or spoon benders?

Alas, if you do, you are a fool. Human beings are increadably easy to deceive. Miracles performed before their very eyes by prestidigitation (i.e. "stage magic") they find entertaining; the same miracles performed by a self-professed "psychic," using the same or similar methods of the state magician, are seen by the True Believers as "evidence" of their beliefs. No amount of evidence to the contrary, including confession by the fraud who performed the tricks, is good enough to sway the True Believer. If you are among these poor souls, well, you have my sympathy, but you must admit you "had it comming to you." After all, you believe the impossible--- shouldn't you pay for such stupidity?

The "psychics," spirit mediums, spoon-benders, and all the other miracle workers believe you should. Imagine the utter contemp they hold for their gullible vistims. As "David" in the movie King of the Gypsies put it, talking about their victims:

"Dey believed 'cuz dey was ign'rant."

And that is the entire truth, in one insightful (albeit poor) sentence. I may as well be the one to tell you the brutal, cold, hard truth: genuine "psychic phenomena" do not exist. Lack of evidence for "psychic phenomena" is excellent evidence for lack of the existance of that phenomena. All a "psychic" need do to demonstrate my assertion false is to demonstrate a "psychic" ability. Not surprising, "psychics" refuse. EVERY TIME. Dowsers fail every time. Astrologers (and I've studied astrology and astrologers for 15 years) fail every time. "Psychics" fail every time. Spirit mediums produce "ectoplasm" (i.e. chiffon fabric) from their pockets and push tin trumpets around table-tops with sticks (in the dark), but they ALWAYS fail to produce any spirits.

"Super-natural phenomena?" It just doesn't happen! If you wish to believe otherwise, well, all I can say is that you're a fool. The real universe is amazing enough without believing it is a magical place where gurus leviated, ascended masters talk to people through mediums via spirit guides, the diseased and the dying get healed by prayer, and spoons get bent by merely willing them to bend. I wish the universe did work that way, but it does not.

I don't believe blindly, I believe most people who expose them selves to the public like that really don't have such an ability most the time. This isn't to say though that all of it isn't true in some way. Just because science cannot explain something yet does not mean that someone can truly say that it doesn't exist. There is evidence to prove that people can do these things regardless of how everyone else thinks about it. Science has also proven that our thoughts interact with reality, making things happen. If these things can happen then other things can as well, or at least have the possibility of happening. Magickal practices are that performed by a person who is capable of moving or manipulating energy. It isn't necessarily a snap your fingers sorta thing or twitch your nose like Samantha.

I have been faced with reality before. It is true that most things people think magick to be that it actually isn't. Hollywood has a way of making things over exaggerated from the reality of how things really work. When things start happening around you, strange things then you can't just deny them. If you do then it's just living a lie and lying to your self trying to tell your self it didn't happen.

Then again, no one can really believe in something if they disbelieve it, but in my opinion is that very disbelief is what causes them not to experiences these things. In the end, if you believe or not, it doesn't really matter and we as people have no right to question another persons way to their path in life. Either it be by lie or by truth.

I was around psychics for years and yes there are fraudulent ones but in every case of someone who comes in contact with the public, they are expected to perform. It just doesn't work that way. This is why they shouldn't do tv shows. People get impressions. It's not like they hear little voices telling them this or that happened, excepting clairaudient readers. As for trance mediums they aren't really there so anything you hear is questionable. They aren't accurate concerning time. Just how it is.

For some this is almost a religious experience but in many cases it is the outside person that bothers people with gifts to the point of exhaustion. Do I believe in psychics yes. I think everyone has the capacity but it's a talent I think and some are more talented than others. Not all psychics keep it secret they just don't do reality shows. They stay with a circle of friends who have similar beliefs. As for Sylvia, I felt she was a fraud from day one and I told friends this. She said certain things I knew wasn't fact. Now it was in an area one cannot substantiate exactly but from being with spiritualists for so many years it didn't ring true. I simple don't care for her nor do I care for the real person that was the one portrayed in Medium. She was a disappointment to me as an individual. Maybe she helps the police but she sure has no class I'll say that for her.

We always called the Akashic Records just the Library. I don't know if it's exactly a place like we would think of. It's like a stream of conscious energy one could say, created by thought. I can't describe it. Beyond that one gets into metaphysical ideologies and manifestation of something more physical to consciously be accepted by the individual. It wouldn't be the same to all. (IMHO)

Nothing is black and white you know. As in everything in life there are always those that spoil things for those who are legitimate. Many things that some call psychic readings and such are merely things that have been learned and have a science of sorts behind them such as Palmistry. It is extremely difficult and hard to learn. I took classes and still don't have it down but I didn't keep up with it. If you were psychic as well you might pick up hunches from what you see in the hand beyond generalities. After all people do make mistakes and if you do this sort of thing for a living that's the rub. You can't tell a client I don't know and have money to buy food, pay the rent, etc. It should never be someone's career in my opinion.

Well personally I believe some people mistake themselves as mediums whenin reality they r simply a form of clairvoyant. myself I cansense the negative and positive with in a spirit I can also see them however I cannot hear them. I however can help others with more extensive gifts to understand the feeling more clearly since more often than not I feel the emotions first hand through them. I will not dispute that there are many frauds but you must also understand we are not an exact science we make mistakes we can misinterpret things.

I personally like the show The Mentalist, it shows just how the whole psychic racket works.

Just because you do not understand something, or how it works, does not mean it is not possible. Look at how many discoveries have made that 20 years ago people would have thought impossible. Psychic ability is just a heightened sense of awareness of the energy that is everywhere and in ALL things, and the ability to read it. It's quite simple really.

~Darken

it is hokum, it uses cold reading, warm reading, and hot reading. It is (and will always prove to be) slight of speech, and inference. A good indicator is that Mentalist do the same stuff with no pretense of mystical alignment. How many former psychics does it take to convince the true believers of that?

Read up on M Leemar Keene

What comes to mind for me Darken,is all the things we have discovered in the past 20 years that show many of the things everyone had always believed supernatural,ended up being "from natural or induced causes" ..Or as Dab points out,hoax etc..

Not to say its all impossible,but the odds and evidence stack higher and higher against supernatural as we find new ways to look at our universe.Thus a point I had brought up in another thread...

The problem lays in the accountability of the readings. At best, they are 80%. To be responsible, one needs to based the out come on something known. And, you can't. Are the readings coming from a higher being that knows? Or the areas of the reader's mind that are in-tune with the truth? Or just an area of the mind that fantasize, day-dream, or mentality unbalanced?

Police will only use these techniques and people to get a second look at things. Maybe the investigators missed something. Nobody can take this stuff serious enough to really rely on it. You can't.

People take Psychics so seriously, psychics are a novelty service at best, the history shows how old parlor games were adapted by most mediums, and psychics.

And there are still plenty of psychic events that they have no explanation for. No, it's not an exact science, and yes it is a field that has been extremely abused. And of course I would expect science to prove many 'supernatural' events to be non-supernatural. After all, disease, disaster, just about everything, at some point, was thought to be supernatural. That still does not rule out psychic ability as false. I stand by the fact that just because something is not understood, does not mean that it is not possible. It would be foolish to discount something altogether simply because it is not understood.

~Darken

thats just it, psychics are known for what they do. By simply refusing to allow scrutiny of what they do they seal the deal themselves. There are those in the "field" that would have their victims think that it is an exact science.

There are a few psychic shows in this country (England) where a group of people go to haunted locations and try and find some activity. Most of the time they find nothing . Plus they always go at night which means your brain plays tricks on you... I'd like to see a show that actually shows something paranormal...