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History, from the past to the present, has been captivated with Religion. But, always there is a glitch to everything that happen in this earth. Religious people always taught us one side of the story about what really happen at the beginning of “creation” (between quotation, because is an assumption) between God and the Devil. We, as Humans, always have one side of the story. Now, I dare you to find a single character in history or in literature or in art more fascinating than the devil. Do you think that the Devil has the right to explain the other side of the story? Do you believe, that what others told you is true about the Devil? If you have the chance to ask the Devil one question, what will be that question? And finally: Do you believe in the devil? please, be polite to others believe.

Let me first say that this is a most interesting subject and one I look forward to following the responses to.

Now, I must say that I don't believe in the Devil. But for the sake of the argument I will assume that I am a believer.

Now if I found a devil more fascinating than the current one in the Bible. Do I think this person deserves to tell their story? My answer is a resounding yes. Every person has the right to tell their story.

If I could ask the Devil one question, what would it be? Well for this question I am going to refer to the Devil in the Bible.

If you follow the stories in the Bible, Lucifer was supposed to be the highest angel of all. But keep in mind that angels were only designed to be extensions of God's will and do his bidding. But somewhere along the line Lucifer found free will. He decided he did not care much for being God's slave and promoted this message. He got some followers and broke away from God's kingdom. My question to Lucifer would be simply how did he do it? Where did he find the power to overcome the spell God had placed on him?

My question would be: Why does "God" allow the most innocent to suffer the debuachery of those who he/she has created?

The "Devil" could not answer, only "God" could answer for all he/she allows to occur.

Having watched Andy Hamiltons seeking Satan, it is apparent an awful lot of lies have been told by various denominations.
My question would be, what was God like, is he bored ?

I also do not believe in Devil given that his position, as explained in religion, is untenable and irreconciliably illogocal. And in demonstration of that fact, were he real the only question I would ask him is the one that proves he could not possibly exist:

Given that in all religions in which you are named it is as an indispensable personage in God's "Plan", yet also given that in that needed role you are ironically depicted as someone bent on destroying that same plan... Why, instead of participating freely in that Plan as the needed "Tempter" and "Adversary", why don't you simply refuse to fulfill your role in that Plan thereby defeating God's Plan altogether, simply by doing... nothing? For in doing nothing... God would no longer have something to fight against, to be the Good Guy for, to have Jesus "save" us from, to forgive us of sins you no longer are tempting us to commit. Without a Satan...there no longer is a need for a "Savior."


Think about it.


- Upir'

In re-reading what I write yesterday, I realized how awkwardly my points were phrased (texting responses from a cell phone is not the easiest way to compose responses).

So to be more brief and to the point...

If Satan/the Devil were to simply quit his role as Adversary/Tempter of Humankind (as outer all religions depiction of him), he thwarts God's Plan, thereby accomplishing what we are told is his actual goal!

So my question to him would be... If he actually exists, why doesn't he?

A brief History of the Devil, flick forward for the facts...

(rather than the twisted propaganda spoon fed for a thousand years)

Geeeezzz

Why is it that the "Devil" always gets a bad rap. Hell he's just doing his job!

Seriously...humans need to separate Lucifer from demons and the evil perpetrated by the demons.

Lucifer has his agenda, it's a simple one not complicated at all, it's all about who you choose to follow IF either. It's a running bet that has been going on...if you follow biblical records...since Eve was "deceived" into taking from the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil"....Semantics aside ok!...

And what's with the Apple? where did they get that one? The apple idea stems back to a Latin pun, where the Latin word malum means both evil and apple. (The actual phrase for good and evil is boni et mali.) It's a pun that is lost in other languages, and as Genesis was written in Hebrew we should not place any reliability on a Latin pun.

The tree is not identified.

But if it "Opened ones eyes to the knowledge of good & evil" then it would have to be along the lines of a hallucinogen. And the only "tree" semantics again...would be the Poppy.

It opened their Chakras and they knew what the "gods" knew.

But anyway....The Devil...he's only doing what "God" wants him to do....try to lead man astray from the the positive side of the Force and take man to the dark side.

Come on you Star War-ites.....it's a simple story and Lucas put it to film.

So: As the Rolling Stones so eloquently put it:


Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a mans soul and faith
And I was round when jesus christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name


But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

Yes people...The Nature of the Game

As an atheist myself, I found Upirs post rather sound for this thread. A good thread indeeed markus, thank you.

You state in your post that mankind has been drawn by religion, personally I think the real draw is spirituality, and religion just got the packaging right for the masses.

I said Religion, because Religion is always a major influence in the topic of the Devil. Spirituality most of the time is related to entity not associated with any organized religions.

Ahriman, Lucifer, Sammael, Tiamat, Apophis, Set - are the faces for the crawling black. They are the shady side of who we are, what we do, and the protectors of right to individuality.

In a world we have of the holier then thou, and the insane view points associated with such things, times are changing to provide a more optomistic view, a better view on how these things are done. With regard to our religious practices we have the demons in hell, the angels in heaven. If you believe what you read of Arab mythos systems, cults of zurvan, samael, lucifer, do view the dark side structure as the nest of the soul. Where by they are able to find the peace, solitude they have, in a world where they are abandoned by their god.

Lucifer fought for the free will of the people.
Ahriman protects the individual from the self surviving all consuming soul eating light. (be apart of me for ever integrated into the divine light - devouring souls) It is a harder life to be an individual, to stand for what you are and who you are. But it is in that life where if you can see it, you can really embrace that meaning of the dark pantheons, and can see how to function without the need for god, or the light sided constructs.

InfernalImage: As Satan supposedly "tempted" Eve to influence her to choose his way and as his supposed primary purpose is to get us all to do wrong rather than to freely choose as we otherwise might, how do you conclude Satan ("Lucifer") advocates freedom of choice?

Because, sin or no. Lillith had the choice to submit to adam as she was initially born on his backside, but was not going to submit and let him on top.

Eve too had the choice, she didnt have to eat the fruit. But even in the bible, there were other tribes, other peoples that existed at the time of this eden, where they were cast out to go live amongst them.

She was presented with choice, and she learned what it was to be good, and what it was to know the difference between knolwedge and wisdom. The tree of life, and the tree of Death. She chose knoweldge of the world and freedom from blind faith, and the slavery of the soul. But God did not smite them, he didnt keep his word in killing them instantly, he didn't kill them, he just put them out of his nudist camp and sent the angel Raziel to guide them, handing over the names of power that they would not be alone in the world. It was their choice on how to live. and they did just that.

any action which is not just sitting still and letting the world affect you, influence you...if its cold do you sit naked outside or endure it? or do you go find warmth? that is a choice, that is lucifers doing to give you the freedom to choose knowledge over how to remedy the situation. Because within is the innate nature to learn, grow and change. Opposed to the adam/eve of before the apple, which was just blind servitude and ignorance of these things. Me I prefer to have the nice comfy feather bed, nice warm house, delicious foods to eat instead of sitting in the middle of the frozen wasteland starving from lack of action and exposure to the elements as god would have his sheep.

Yes. There is always a second resigning to an event or it was just simply vain, crutile, or idiotic. Many believe that the devil only wanted free will and is that soo bad? Others think that he was just doing something he was ordered to do so "god" could find the loyal from those of treaturey. (sp?). Any way yes

Does anyone believe this sh"t about snakes and bloody apples, please tell me you are arguing about these things in a metaphorical sense...

If not I am going to get really depressed.

The whole point of Any Hamiltons video was to show modern man we have been deceived by all Churches and Religions for years. THEY, are the father of lies !

Alternatively, the Bible is correct and the book of revelations describes the beast as a "Great Dragon"..?

Ahem, the satanists seem unusually quiet on this one. The documentary is claer, the Christians made up terrible things about Satan ...

When in fact according to Muslims etc he was a fiery deity, the right hand supporter of the creator.

Perhaps you missed it...

I find this is a very interesting topic.
Now, I am at the moment undecided on whether I agree with Satan as a being or,as pure Satanists see it, as a force. The opposite of everything God stands for, if you will. I do however know what i would ask Him,if indeed He is a being.

I would ask Him this, "Why do you conform to the ideas that Man has of you?"

Ive always wondered why He hasnt "broken the mold",so to speak, of our ideas of how Satan should act.

I've enjoyed the postings of Fallen and Upir the most in this thread and concur. The Devil is a concoction created to embody all that is evil within humanity, however, if we as humanity are reflections of the Source or God that is Within, would it not pose a deduction that the All That Is, All That Was, and All That Is Yet To Be is both good and evil and that the only difference dividing the two is our individual perception based upon the choices of free will?

Satan is a word that best translates from the Hebrew to English as the adjective or descriptive noun meaning "adversary." One who opposes, resists or argues...hence, considering our tendency to vocalize what is right or wrong, then could we not all be called Satan?

Hel(l) is a Norse word for Heaven...any idea how that one slipped in? Or that Jesus would rebuke one of his own disciples, calling him Satan-get thee behind me...during an argument none-the-less...or shall we forget that even the Bible states that even an evil man knows how to treat his children kindly.

What then do we choose as good and evil if nothing more than to seek God's favor in all that we pursue in the world of the flesh?

Is the Devil real?

No.

If he was real, does he deserve his own soap box?

Yes, just as every proponent of Free Will does.

What would I ask him?

How in Hel did everyone assume you were a "guy" in all of this?

Silverhawk: on the topic of Satan being referred to as "him". Most people call Satan that because it is assumed the majority of angels are male,at least to the human mind.much as God is referred to as Him.he could very well be "it".
and also i believe Jesus referred to one of his disciples as Satan because of the fact that he was arguing with him,although im not entirely sure.

also, i believe Satan has the right to speak His mind,as well.Forgot to post that earlier.

That is an easy one:

The Christian God = Slavery. As you are Gods battery (he feeds on your energy as you worship him)

Satan = Freedom. Satan is the creation of Gods followers who is actually a scapegoat because of the rebel angel Lucifer who just wanted to be free of Gods Slavery. His forcing the angels to be his messenger and serve the lesser humans who spit in Gods face and do horrible things in his name. Such as war. Yet God prefers them over the angels he created first and are higher being to the mere human which is nothing more than an evolved animal. Yet Lucifer was cast out because he loved this God too much and wanted to be loved equally. God is not truly love unless you give him what he desires (your life, worship, and energy

I don't believe the "devil" is one person. It is all of us that have not reached inner peace.

The devil is supposed to represent a person or thing that convinces us to do bad, that he/it makes us give in to our desires.

But who's to say we SHOULDN'T give in to certain desires? Blood, sex, food, money. You need money to live now just as much as everything else.
Everyone's been complaining on about the 1% of America because the 99% doesn't have money. See? Giving in to desires.

There is no devil in this equation. It's human nature. Our flesh needs and wants these things, not a devil.

I don't know though, that's just what I think.

the devil god light dark sounds intresting epic war and what not retold story many verity names changed thousonds of times but lesten to both sides of it berhaps none of its real or its all real just an endles cycle of light and dark concering one or the other back and forth forever

If we took a look at every ancient culture around the globe, they all have similiar stories. There is a light and a dark force, or is it the other way around? To me there is neither.

It's about perception and which side we choose to see but like most human arguments for example, most issues can be seen rather well when one is outside the box and non-bias.

Lucifer/Satan is an opposing force, a rebel. We can certainly relate to that when talking about Parents and Children. God being the "Father" and Satan one of his sons. And we all know if one of our children goes against their parent/s, they get the bad rep. Anything against the "ruler makers" get the bad rep.

If anything these stories may speak about the divine but at the same time, these beings have relationships much like humanity if one thinks about it.

I am not saying I do not believe in Lucifer/Satan, i just think that religion advertises whatever side they WANT you to see, while others are actually looking at the details of information and formulating their own opinions.

God could be the enemy for all one knows if one wishes to believe in the Christian version of what God is considering God has been recorded in killing more people than Lucifer ever did.

Others have moved away from this mindset and looking at God as a universal creator, not what we are being taught it is because let's face it people, the Bible is FLAWED. There are Pagans on this site that could stump any Christian who is by the book and is even MORE knowledgeable!

Yes our ancient ancestors have spoken of an afterlife, of deities that await us on the other side, that we will be judged etc etc. It's the same principles carried down through the years only branched off and retaught according to however society accepted it in THEIR time, much like TODAY.

We are constantly changing our viewpoints of what good and evil or dark and light REALLY means and thus that even means the Devil.

What would i ask the devil? Nothing. I would simply listen to his side of things without judgement and accept him as a being, part of the great universal family.