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Ok. I don't know how well this will work. But I got curious today on the real story of Satan and I looked it up. I want everyone to know what I found and ask what you think the story is.

Lucifer (Satan) was created to lead the angelic hierarchy, ruling over physical civilizations of angels on many planets in our solar system before God recreated everything (Genesis 1:3-2:25). He and the other angels were stewards of creation, building civilizations on the terrestrial planets of our solar system designed to glorify God and His Word.

Satan’s original name was Lucifer (Isaiah 14:12) which means "O shining star, son of morning ". We know that Lucifer was the most beautiful and greatest angel that God ever created. He "sealed the measure" of perfection and beauty of all creation (Ezekiel 28:12). His nature reflected the glory of God, thus his name "shining".

The actual Hebrew words "O shining star" mean "bright, clear sounding or shining" and "boastful and pride". And the Hebrew words "son of morning" means "son of dawning, or earliest, of first". So the correct interpretation of Lucifer is "O clear sounding, boasting son from the beginning". Or what we all understand Lucifer and Satan to be - the boasting angel. This portrays a much clearer picture of this rebellious angel whose realm was destroyed by God.

"The pillars of heaven tremble, and are astonished at His (God’s) rebuke. He stirs up the sea with His power, and by His understanding He breaks up the storm. By His Spirit He adorned the heavens; His hand pierced the fleeing serpent (Satan)" (Job 26:11-13).

"You (God) have broken Rahab in pieces, as one who is slain; You have scattered Your enemies with Your mighty arm" (Psalm 89:10 also see Psalm 87:4).

"Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord! Awake as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Are You not the arm that cut Rahab apart, and wounded the serpent (Satan)?" (Isaiah 51:9).

Are not these scriptures speaking of a time before man when God put down Satan’s rebellion? If so, then what is Rahab? For sure it was "broke in pieces" and "cut apart" by God has He destroyed Lucifer’s (Satan’s) rebellion. Could Rahab been Lucifer’s headquarters? Could that headquarters been on a planet which now the asteroid belt?

This could be two different planets or the same one. These names along with Mars are called the "stones of fire" and were capable of supporting some form of life. These were the seat of Satan’s civilization (Ezekiel 28:14-18). And it was a great civilization of angelic beings. It is here that the scripture tells us he reigned over a literal material kingdom known as "Eden the garden of gems and stones" (Ezekiel 28:13).

Before the creation of Adam, the civilization of angels existed and created habitations on the terrestrial planets Rahab, Mars, Earth, and maybe the moon. Throughout scripture there is a consistent reference to the first dwelling places of some of the ancient sons (angels) of God (II Peter 2:4 and Jude 6).

The rebellion of Satan plunged all of creation into a state of corruption, where before it was perfect and glorified (Romans 8:20). God brought fire out of Satan’s midst and the planet Rahab exploded, sending planetesimal and asteroid size pieces of itself into the orbits of the interior terrestrial worlds (Mars and Earth). The present asteroid belt is all that is left of Satan’s planet. Scientist have stated for a long time that the asteroid belt must have been a planet which was destroyed millenniums ago. Present studies have concluded that these asteroids show evidence that they once possessed an atmosphere and water. Presently only planets contain these two elements. Because this planet was totally destroyed, could it be that this was actually Lucifers head quarters.

The force of the explosion destroyed the angelic habitation on Mars and left it a lifeless planet. We presently can see the remains in the Cydonia faces and city. The face on Mars, represents an angelic or cherubim wearing a headdress. Satan is referred to as the "cherub that covers" (Ezekiel 28:14 and 16). Could this face been that of Satan? It is interesting to note that it seems to have the same type of headdress as worn by the Egyptians and Mayan royalty. Further more, the face on Mars is half cherubim and half lion. Just as the Sphinx is half cherubim and half lion.

Even Earth was effected by this destruction. Earth was placed in a deep freeze. "And the earth had become (was something else before) without form and void (to lie waste, desolation, empty, in vain, wilderness, nothing, confusion) and darkness (absence of light and heat) was upon the face of the deep (bringing a sudden deep freeze)" (Genesis 1:2).

Jeremiah’s (4:23-26) description must be of the world before Adam. He looked into the ages before Adam and described the destruction of the earth and heavens. "There were no men, (descendants of Adam), yet there were cities which had been obliterated." The inhabitants of these cities were in fact the angelic host and their leader was Satan, before this rebellion.

Isaiah (34:11) tells us of a earth that was a "line of confusion and stones of emptiness".

Peter (II Peter 3:5-) also describes "the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flood with water". This couldn’t be Noah’s flood, because every mountain was covered by twenty-two and one-half feet of water (Genesis 7:19-20).

If you would like to read more of this here is the Site where I got all of the information. None of this is in my own words except for the first paragraph and this one.

More links on the story of the fallen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_angel
Informational

I have always loved this story. It strikes me just how HUMAN satan sounds.

These things were great teaching aides back in the day.....

i agree with you Carvell

It is a fascinating story. In fact it does show how much humans are like him. No matter what God tries to do we are like Satan. Lustful..Proud..Disobediant. I mean what...is everyone gonna be banished from Heaven? Just for being themselves?

Yea all of that is interesting...but what Ihave always said in many of these like threads and posts is this: You can fill volumns with what they don't say about HIS history.

Older Sanskrit have it as Satan being and Angel of light that rebelled, not physically but rather morally against "God" because he disagreed with the "creation of man" as a being with the knowledge of will, a knowledge that the angels do not have...so says the sanskrit....but the knowledge was gained from Adam by Lucifer, it was in Lucifers nature to be negative, to question, to ask "WHY"...he was originally, as the writings say, a child of a negative party of beings whom the scriptures call Jinn...and yes you do find the word in the Old Testament as well as the Word for what earth was called by the ancient societies at the time...but any way, Lucifer, being a child, was taken after a battle between the forces of "good" and "evil"and raise as a "positive" being...but you see...the nature was there for negativity so it was a wash as far as trying to rehab Lucifer...it was his nature to question...."WHY".....

To really understand the pre-history of man, you have to get away from the idea that Angels are little babies with wings playing harps, and grown adult like beings in flowing robes, or half naked in human form weilding swords and happy faces....they aren't .

but if this happened before the dawn of man - who wrote it?

Aw geeeez..and I thought people woould be able to add 2 and 2...sheeeeesh.....THINK my brother THINK

It has been awhile since I have read the story. THanks for posting it, great read. Always liked the story.

Kwil..your knowledge is astounding. And no the angels aren't what they are made out to be. And yes Lucifer means light bringer. And he was created way before man. But he wasn't the only angel to fall..there were many more. He was just the one that I guess you would say lead them astray. He was the one that didn't like the way things were going.

It isn't so much that he didn't like the way things were going as much as his digust with the "formation" of man , and man having will which put man on a higher level than the "angels"
It was already in his nature to rebel, you can't reform the devil, ever hear that addage before, "You can't reform the Devil", you can't change his nature.

I've never heard that but I believe it. Man couldn't rank higher than Angels. That would be saying that a criminal ranks higher than a police officer.

You need to get away from the term angels like it's something special....Man...for lack of a better word....was "created" on a higher level than the "angels", he was a new species of being for a new purpose and the rebellious ones didn't like it one bit.

Angels is what they were called. I don't have anything else to call them except beings and that is like a disgrace to Satan. NO I'M NOT A SATAN WORSHIPPER. But I'm not gonna make him something less than he is. And Angels isn't a special term. It's just what people called the "beings"

It is a good story and I think that if one believes in heaven and hell then it would make sense. There is the question of if it happened before the dawn of man then who wrote it. I think that there are way to many discrepancies in the bible and there are supposedly 4 books in the bible written by Lucifer himself but then again who knows it all could just be a good story and we were actually placed here by aliens so the bible and these stories would make no sense other then to be used as teaching tools to keep people on the straight and narrow

Lucifer didn’t fall he was pushed lol
Demonized by the church as his star was the morning star, the church wanted that for JC and the rest is a very confused history

Since we are talking angels and heirarchy. In the Old Testament, Psalm 8:4-5, we read: "What is man, that Thou art mindful of him? Or the son of man, that Thou visitest him? Thou hast made him a little lower than the angels; with glory and honour hast Thou crowned him, and Thou hast set him over the works of Thy hands." From this it is clear that in the beginning God created man in a state "a little lower than the angels" -- after all, man was created after God had created the angels. However, at the Incarnation, when the pre-eternal Word and Son of God became man, the dignity of humanity was elevated and man is now in a state above that of the angels! How do we know that? In the New Testament, I Corinthians 6:2-3, we read: "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels?"

So, it was originally set that we were lower but that the saints will ultimately judge the angels and it is they who are higher, not the "common man". But hey, I always wondered why Lucifer, having seen the Creator, would rebel. I guess if this is true then he must have been made a little different. Prideful and arrogant. Not to thread too tight a hole, I wonder if the bar scene is really any different? I mean guys approach a beauty and get rejected all the time, right?

Ill make it quick and short for words fade with the wind this is also what ive heard: Lucifer was the right hand of god and was and is beautiful but like everyone he urned for more and revealed himself to god and god being a little bitch and wanting to stay th one and only took it up the ass and casted him from heaven lucifer not wantng to be a little bitch like god was ashamed of the name he was given and changed it to Satan (Luzbel,Belial, All The same) and saught to show god his true power by making his own undead undestructible army to take over heanen......

hi lordlust
interesting view you have and one iv heard often.
Do you not see the difference historically between the names and origins?
Iv posted a link to a good explanation as I see it … just my view nothing more

about where Lucifer came from

didnt worl lol
http://zeitgeistmovie.com

Ya i agree this story interests me..it does make him sound very human....from things i have read and this info it makes me think the devil isnt that bad of a guy..evil cruel ppl go to hell right?...and the suffer for all eternity and such..or thats the christain or w/e belief right..well it sounds like satan is just serveing justice to those who were evill..sorry it that sounds weird..lol..thats just my thought

a good read...

that is such good material I am so glad someone posted it in here. I have always loved that story.

I love that story it shows that every man or woman is basically like satan not in every aspect but in a lot of ways, man is more like satan than he is like god...

interesting story but not my path

I find the Rahab interesting, and the writer referring to it as being a possibly destroyed planet. I have read books where a lot of the bibles references were pointed out to be rather extraterrestrial. Well how it was explained lol. Thanks for the article was a good read!

Thanks for the posts guys. I'll be sure to check it out.

i agree...333

I read the webpage you have sited and I am sad to say that he took things greatly out of context. Too many times I found that he had tried to make fit somethings that just weren't right, or assumptions made that didn't exist. I went to biblegateway.com to cross ref some of his quotes. Most were either incorrectly quoted or not about what he was saying. I think the idea is cool, but I just don't see the link. Sorry.

Lucifer is not this bad ass guy with a pitchfork as shown in the bible.He was the first of his kind who chose to think for themselves.Most of the angels just followed whatever god told them.Lucifer rebelled with a reason and he stood by his actions.Religion blew up his image so they can always blame their fault on someone...

I see Lucifer as a guy who cannot be sustained in a controlled environment.He needs his own world to rule and live......

But i heard about certain theories which states that Lucifer and Satan are completely different entities..Gotta check them out...

Here is an interesting piece:

http://www.geocities.com/b_r_a_d_99/rebelangel.htm

Rachel..I think I get what you mean. He doesn't make people evil..they are evil all on their own and he punishes them for it. And if God sees that a person is to much like the fallen he casts them away from Heaven. Because I've heard and read that you must be baptized to enter heaven. Does that mean if someone is baptized..commited crime...repented gets to go to heaven? but the person who lived a very straight forward life but didn't get baptized goes to hell? If that's the case then I would rather "Reign in hell then serve in heaven"...as John Milton said in Paradise Lost.

Again if you are talking about following the literal text then yes without a doubt you must be baptised to get to heaven. It isn't for 'membership' into some fraternal brotherhood or sisterhood. It is for the washing away of sins (both yours and the ones passed down from Adam). Specifically I believe that you must have the name of Jesus involved at baptism too (but that is just what I see in scripture). As to dining in hell of whereever the fallen angels are going, it is your free will to choose what you path is. That is again, my opinion and not meant to offend or belittle anyone else's choice.

That sounds very much to be truthful. And I'm glad your sharing your opinions with all of us. I believe what you are saying to be true. We do choose our paths. And yes you have to have the name of Jesus at your baptism. Or I had His name at mine. Yes I am a Christian converted Celtic. I believe in everything and the church doesn't like that.

after the fall of Lucifer and His followers thier wings were clipped....the mated with mortal females thus creating nephlims....that was the reason for the flood in Noah's time...to ride the world of these "abomonations"...Lucifer had His way of how man should have been created and for it He was banished from Hevean along with His followers....but He found a way to get mortals as He thought they should be.....thus Eve eating the fruit from the Tree of Wisdom...

The Name "Lucifer!"

Author: Frank W. Nelte

In the English version of the Bible the name "Lucifer" appears only one time--in Isaiah 14:12. This reads:

"How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning..."

"Lucifer" is not an English word, but a Latin word. The question is: who gave the world this Latin name?

In A.D. 382 Pope Damascus commissioned the scholar Jerome to make an official revision of the Latin versions of the Bible that were floating around in the Catholic Church. Jerome went off to a cave in Bethlehem where he proceeded to make his translation, supposedly based on the Hebrew text, but in practice based very largely on the Septuagint version (i.e. "LXX") that Origen had produced about 140 years earlier while in Caesarea. (The truth about the LXX is another subject that I have discussed in a separate paper.)

Anyway, by A.D. 405 Jerome had completed his work, which we today know as "The Latin Vulgate" Bible. It is far from an infallibly accurate translation of the original texts. Rather, it is an interpretation of thought put into idiomatic, graceful Latin!

For a thousand years this Translation was without a rival--and herein lies the problem!

Jerome had understood that Isaiah 14:12 is talking about Satan. There the Hebrew word "heylel" is used and Jerome translated this into Latin as "lucifer"!

This is a mistranslation!!!

The word "Lucifer" comes from 2 Latin words:

Lux (=light) + ferous (=to bear or carry). Thus the name "Lucifer" means Light-bearer or Light-bringer.

But this is not what the Hebrew word " heylel " means! We'll see later exactly what this word does mean.

Anyway, as a result of this Latin Vulgate translation, which was almost the only version of the Bible in use throughout Europe for the next 1000 years, Satan popularly became known as Lucifer. It should be self-evident that when the first people who translated the Bible into English came along, one of their paradigms was that the name "Lucifer" applied to Satan. When they came to translate Isaiah 14:12 into English, they decided that rather than actually "translate" the word "Heylel," they would simply substitute it with the already well-known (originally) Latin name "Lucifer." And they could do this because on the surface this seems to be a reasonably accurate translation. But it isn't really!

I mentioned earlier that the word "Lucifer" appears only once in the English versions of the Bible. But in the Latin Vulgate translation of Jerome it appears twice! That's right, twice! Where else is this word used and who does it refer to? Jerome certainly knew who it refers to. This knowledge also casts a dark cloud over his intentional use in Isaiah 14:12!

2 Peter 1:19: "...until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts." this is another mistranslation!!!

The two words "day star" are a translation of the one Greek word " phosphoros ." This comes from the two Greek words:

Phos (=light) + phero (=to bear or carry). Thus the Greek word " phosphoros " means Light-bearer or Light-bringer.

Anyone who knows both, Greek and Latin, can verify that the Greek word " Phosphoros " and the Latin word "Lucifer" are absolutely, one hundred percent identical in meaning. "Lucifer" is the perfect translation into Latin of the Greek word " Phosphoros ."

Now let's note the dishonesty, first of the English translators and then of Jerome--

All of the English translators of the Bible know very well that the word " Phosphoros " in 2 Peter 1:19 can be perfectly accurately translated by the word "Lucifer." Instead they have chosen to deliberately obscure this fact. Why?

They knew very well that 2 Peter 1:19 refers without doubt to Jesus Christ. This verse calls Jesus Christ " Phosphoros " (in Greek) or "Lucifer" (in Latin). Yet the translators have hidden this fact behind the words "day star." The facts are that "Phosphoros " has absolutely nothing to do with either "day" or "star"! The translators simply borrowed a term that is elsewhere used for Christ--namely "morning star" in Revelation 2:28 (Greek = proinos + aster) and in Revelation 22:16 (Greek = orthrinos + aster).

To translate "phosphoros " as "day star" is plain dishonesty!!!

Now let's look at Jerome. The phrases quoted under point #8 above are translated by Jerome into Latin as follows:

"... donec dies elucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris ."

Notice that Jerome correctly translated the Greek " phosphoros " into the Latin word " lucifer ." Jerome obviously knew that this verse refers to Jesus Christ--yet he wrote " lucifer " with a small "l" and did not capitalize the word. He also knew that he had translated the word " phosphoros " perfectly into Latin.

Jerome knew that in the New Testament "Lucifer" is a title for Jesus Christ; yet he still chose to also translate the less-clearly defined Hebrew word "Heylel" in Isaiah 14:12 as "Lucifer," knowing that this word referred to Satan--and here Jerome started the word with a capital "L,".

So with Jerome, Satan gets a name that refers to Christ with a capital letter--and Christ gets His own name only with a small letter.

Now let's look at the Hebrew word " heylel "--

It is used only once in the Bible, in Isaiah 14:12 . That does not give us any further insight. But "Heylel" is derived from the primitive root word " halal " It is this word that gives us understanding of what "Heylel" really means. I might add here that this is also the only way that Jerome and the English translators could come to an understanding of what "Heylel" means--by clearly understanding the meaning of the word that "Heylel" is derived from, since it is only used one single time.

" Halal " is used 165 times in the Old Testament and it is translated as follows in the KJV:


117 times = Praise
14 times = Glory
10 times = Boast
8 times = Mad
3 times = Shine(d)
3 times = Foolish
2 times = Fools
2 times = Commended
2 times = Rage
1 time = Celebrate
1 time = Give
1 time = Marriage
1 time = Renowned

This should make clear that the translators felt they should attach over a dozen different meanings to this word " Halal ." The meanings are both, good and bad; both, positive and negative.

There is no question that this word has a good, positive meaning. But neither is there any question that it also has a bad, negative meaning. Jerome, without the slightest proof available to him, decided to give the word "Heylel" a good, positive meaning. All the major translators into English have simply followed Jerome's lead, who was working for Pope Damascus, remember?

Anyone who has studied what God tells us about Satan, should realize immediately that Satan is--"mad, boastful, a fool and foolish and he does rage." These words with which " Halal " is translated in numerous places, fit Satan perfectly.

The very next verses in Isaiah show Satan boasting! Read Isaiah 14:13 - 14! That is why God calls him " heylel "--because he boasted!! What could be plainer?

"For you hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high" (Isaiah 14:13.

Satan's "boasting" is so very obvious in these verses!

Now here are some of the places where " Halal " is translated as:


"Mad" = 1 Samuel 21:13; Psalms 102:8; Ecclesiastes 2:2; 7:7; Isaiah 44:25; Jeremiah 25:16; 50:38; 51:7;
"Fools" = Job 12:17; Psalms 75:4;
"Foolish" = Psalms 5:5; 73:3; 75:4;
"Rage" = Jer. 46:9; Nahum 2:4;
"Boast" = 1 Kings 20:11; Psalms 10:3; 34:2; 44:8; 49:6; 52:1; 97:7; Proverbs 20:14; 25:14; 27:1.

It should be very clear by now that "Heylel" has nothing to do with the words "Star" or "Day" or "Morning" or "Bringing" or "Carrying." Notice also that he is "the son (Hebrew = the product) of the morning" (Isaiah 14:12). Christ is the Morning Star and it is He who created Satan. And Satan has deceived all of mankind into giving him the exalted title, which is what it really is, and which rightfully belongs to Jesus Christ, of "Light-Bringer." One clear fulfillment of Revelation 12:9--.

Paul explained this in 2 Corinthians 11:14, where he tells us: "...for Satan himself is transformed (Greek = disguised) into an angel of light." Do you grasp this? He has deceived the world into believing that Isaiah 14:12 tells us that he used to hold Christ's job (as per 2 Peter 1:19 )--that he used to be an angel who was a "Light-bringer."

Once you get rid of the old paradigm that "Lucifer is a name that used to refer to Satan" and grasp that the Bible identifies Christ as "Lucifer" (or "Phosphoros " in Greek), the Light-bringer, then you'll be surprised how many scriptures literally flood into your mind in support of this--. e.g.


John 8:12 = "I am the light of the world..."

John 3:19 = "...that light is come into the world..."

John 1:4 - 8 = "...in Him was...the light of men..."

John 12:36 = "...believe in the light..." etc., etc..

We need to understand that God has absolutely no reason to reveal Satan's previous name to us. Why should we have to know it? (Apart from Ezekiel 28:12-15) nowhere in the bible is anything good said about Satan!! Notice that in Ezekiel 28, where God does speak about Satan's existence before the creation of man, God reveals that Satan had been an anointed cherub--but God does not use any name that previously applied to Satan. Why not? If it was a "good" name that we should know about, it would have fitted perfectly into this description of Satan's prior glory. But Ezekiel 28 carefully avoids hinting at any previous name. And so why should Isaiah 14:12 be an exception--by giving us a lofty title that supposedly belonged to Satan at one time, and which Peter in fact tells us is Christ's title?

Whatever name Satan may have had previously is totally blotted out before God--it is as though Satan never ever had that name. That's what sin does--it totally blots out any memory of any good that went before. That's what God tells us in Ezekiel 3:20 and 18:24 and 33:13. If the righteous turns away from God, then--"all his righteousness shall not be remembered." Isn't this plain enough? After Satan sinned, why should God want us to know about Satan's supposed "good name" from a previous time???

Understand this: even if "Lucifer" really had at one stage been Satan's name, God still would not want us to use it in reference to Satan! It is God who reveals Satan to us by the name "Satan"! And it is God who reveals Satan as a braggart in Isaiah 14:12-14.

Satan is the god of this age (2 Corinthians 4:4) who has blinded the minds of people. He has churches and ministers who disguise themselves as "...the ministers of righteousness" (2 Corinthians, a plain reference to them disguising themselves as "Christians." Satan's universal ("catholic") church gave Satan one of Christ's names by means of a mistranslation from the Hebrew into Latin. Jerome was clearly working for Satan when he converted the Greek word "Phosphoros ," used in 2 Peter 1:19 for Jesus Christ, into a personal name for Satan in the Old Testament. Jerome knew that "Phosphoros " refers to Christ. If he really was a Hebrew scholar, as is generally claimed, then he also knew that "Halal " also has negative connotations like "mad, boast, foolish," etc. because he would have had to translate this word into Latin 165 times. Did Jerome really not understand the context of boasting in this passage??

For over 1000 years this name was used for Satan in the western world. It was placed above question as a former name for Satan. So translators and students of the Biblical languages and of Latin have also accepted this as a fact that should not be questioned. Satan clearly does not want his "right" to the name "Lucifer" questioned. Those who use it for Satan show they are "worshipping" Satan--by attributing one of Christ's names to Satan.

I could carry on with some more points, but I feel that the above information should suffice to understand that Satan is never referred to as " lucifer " in the Word of God. So what about you--will you continue to refer to Satan as having once been called "Lucifer"?? You now know the facts!

Author: Frank W. Nelte

after the fall of Lucifer and His followers thier wings were clipped....they mated with mortal females thus creating nephlims....that was the reason for the flood in Noah's time...to rid the world of these "abomonations"...Lucifer had His way of how man should have been created and for it He was banished from Hevean along with His followers....but He found a way to get mortals as He thought they should be.....thus Eve eating the fruit from the Tree of Wisdom and getting Adam to eat the fruit as well....because they ate the fruit mortals are now punished.....since than they have been "at war" over Who gets our souls....

Once upon a time there lived a nasty old man with pointy horns and a big fork... he went round the town doing very bad things... like farting in elevators and yelling at old people... ooops! Got the wrong end of the stick on this thread... sorry!

Lol. That is kinda funny.

Love ya sweety thanks!

No problem. It was a great sense of humor.

ha ha ha I thought that was neeto

But the way i have heard was it was Lilith as the serpent that got eve to eat the apple..Lilith was suppose to be Adam's wife..Sur Satan is real but i think there is more to the story than anyone knows

Thanks for posting the links and the stories. Lucifer, satan, the devil or whatever name we give this advesary is more of an idea than an entity. It is why we see a challenger entity in all major religions around the world.

Let us try to remember firstly that the Language of the period and of the area where "Jesus" was born at the time was Aramaic a "Hebrew" type script spoken in an Arabic tongue.

"Satan" the term, was originally pronounced Shaytan in the language. It comes from the two words Shari & Tiyn whose respective meanings are Evil & Mud; The mud is in reference to the "Man" being created from the "Tiyn" mud of the earth, the so called "Primordial muds" and "Satan" is refering to a physical manifestation of evil and not a spiritual being.
In the ancient Aramaic we find that the "Devil" was called in the heavens "Ibliys" from the root meaning to -Rebel- his name was before called Azazel.
It is important to remember that one must never place too much trust and concentration to translations into English, what one translator didn't understand and made up for another translator in another section did the same.
As for example the curtains of Solomon: They were not Curtains that hang from a wall but it is translated and implied as to mean such. Throughout the entire bible much has been mis-translated some places on purpose and others out of frustration and ignorance.
Halal is also an Aramaic word meaning "good or lawful" as pertaining to food in the Eastern world, one says Halal one says Kosher.
Another interesting point is that Hollywood wasted no time and went to much expense to produce TV shows such as Battle Star Galactica back in the 80's not the new one, and also Star Wars. The stories in these features is straight from the Torah, Injiyl, and the Qur'an...it's funny how hollywood can make such a historical, legendary and factual past...put it on the big screen and everyone, with the exception of a few...think that's it's based on fiction. Amazing.

some may think that but there are us who knows better

Very interesting Kwil but i always thought Satan was one of God's fallen angels? see how the things we were taught is false? i have read things that shocked me, like wtf..Not saying the Satanic Bible is true but some is same my Master has told me and sent me things to read..Very interesting indeed

nice story :)

Oh well no matter..i know where i stand and i hold no regrets

That is intersting. We have been lead to believe many things when we don't know the truth.

very true Kris..and things we were taught isnt how it is or was

Everyone is a mystic, everyone is a philosopher, everyone is a learned student of a particular subject or like some...subjects, a jack of all trades in the occult and the paranormal, everyone will refer to what he or she knows accordingly to what they are taught by those who profess "Professors" to know, not realizing that these so called learned men are themselves still learning that half of what they were taught was incorrect and mostly conjecture. Nature is proving modern day science wrong on a daily basis and scientists are making discoveries that had lain hidden for centuries. The chambers under the Sphinx are not empty and what was found will not be revealed thanks to the efforts of both the Egyptian government and many scholars that have not only face to lose but also their credibility and the cost of changing what WE ALL "Profess to know" and think is correct, only to find out how wrong we've been.
Some call the Devil Satan, some Lucifer and they do this out of what they have been taught so in making clear the term "Satan" as being the Evil in physical form, there will be those who do not agree...So be it....believe as you wish and reject the origin and meaning of words...no problem if it floats your boat....hoo haaa!

Exactly. How do we even know that the bible wasn't written by people MANY MANY years after Jesus' death? How do we even know that the people who wrote the bible were even there? They could have been told by their family years down the road and got the story mixed up like we do with Gossip.

What if....Satan was and still is one who has been the loyalist of beings ?

What if his love for God was so great, he allowed his name to be tarnished so that humans would have the chance to grow spiritually ?

What if in effect he was rpg...being his own advocate....?....how funny would that be lol

Ya really don't know the true story of Satan nor that of Lucifer. Satan, adversary, and yes Lucifer went against his creator out of the betterment of his followers known as humans nothing more or less than that. As for the story of Satan you must dive into the depths of those the rejected or advanced against there own creators. However there was one believe thinking that there was an angel called Satan that spoke with Lucifer however is dismissed b/c of lack of prove therefore the meaning of the word that is texted as "Satan" is only adversary to one god or gods...

agrees with You...But how can they say Satan is evil? Read between the lines, read everything and be shocked as i was...

to me it sounds like a farry tail to scare children into beleving in judo/christanity

Judo? Hai karate!!!


no really I know what you're saying Judeo/Christianity.

But what is interesting is that the Judeo and Christian concepts were non existant during biblical time predating both the Tribes of Israel and the Christian concepts or better yet the time period of "Christ".

The way of life, Pre Israelite wasn't a Semetic faith...obviously because Shem had not yet been born, we're talking Pre Noah now, and "Christ" would not be born for another thousand years or so.

Ever hear that song: "GImme that old time religion if it was good enough for moses and Aabraham then it's good enough for me"

Ask yourself....what was it if it wasn't Judaism or Christianity......and remember the term Hebrew or Ibrew simply means "One from the other side" and was attributed to Abraham when he crossed from Ur of the Chaldeas into Mesopotamia, so please don't apply it to a religion.


Well at least some food for thought. Now if you'll excuse me my BBQ snails are burning.

Kwil... you forget that the written languages of the bible are hebrew and greek... Aramaic is not a written language... it has no writing.... it is a spoken language which explains why the earliest gospel was written more than 75 years after AD 33... Aramaic was a spoken language and the gospels survived to be written down due to the oral tradition...

Re do your homework...

Well, when the extent of your research encompasses wikipedia you are in no position to state anything as fact... even assuming you are right there are very many Aramaic dialects... so to suggest that there is one universal translation of an aramaic word is like saying that every african dialect has the same vocabulary... wikipedia starting to look a little bereft????

Wikipedia is a Joke, I never use it I have my own Books. Then again maybe you , I think you should re-read what I wrote, I think you missed what was said about Aramaic. Read it carefully.

I think your over exuberance on the subject is clouding your thought processes.
Whether Aramaic is the Old , the Standard, the Middle or the Late period of works and writings, Including Western and Eastern Aramaic, it's literally all the same spoken word and written script.....give or take a few vowels that have been added for pronounciation over the periods.

The one point that you do make that I cannot disagree with is that the bible texts have been subject to so much cut and paste by the early church fathers that what remains is about as clear as the traces pulled together by a forensic scientist... and the stench of traditional Pauline christianity prevents any honest interpretation of the true message or history that the texts purport to record or document...

Now when you say the "bible" are you refering to the whole thing, OT or NT? Because I can say with a great deal of authority that the OT was copies with a high degree of accuracy from earlier texts. The Torah, Talmud etc were copied by scribes who if they made a letter mistake trashed the whole thing even if it was the last word. The Jews, Hebrews, took the word of God VERY seriously and still do in Orthidox circles. The new testement has papris (sp?) scolls that are accurate to the first century. You must understand that any innaccuracies are a product of time on the originals. Thus as the parchment wore our it was scribed again, so a new date for carbon dating was applied to that document and not the original.

Additionally, as long as we are talking about accuracy. You read shakespeare, plato, histories of the old world and take them at face value. Some of them have no original and are made up of tales cobbled together. If you were educated in any state, national or private institution you were taught from books that get replaced rather quickly because of inaccurate information, yet at the time you took it as 'gospel'. As has been stated in other threads, change is the only constant in the realm of learning. What we own to our intellects now evaluating this topic we owe to book that were replaced with newer works, some thing to think about...

I love everyones feed but I also want to state that this thread isn't about the bible or Jesus..it's about Satan/Lucifer/The Devil..whatever other names he has. So please keep it to the topic.

Do you believe Lucifer refers to Christ or Satan?

Satan is my hero and guides me through life as my master and mentor

But Kris, they both got together and as log as Satan is mentioned it is good..

a very good Read.

no one wants to keep Satanists or good and evil alive so..but satan does go with the bible and all that..

this was a great tread...Lusifer"light" the simple translation of his name...Jesus christ was also called the light. Was he Not... Has anyone ever stopped to think that nothing in this life is an accident???

All things in creation, by the order of GOD would have an opposite...Day/Night, Sun/Moon, but there is one thing within the creation that is not opposed, thus throwing out the ballance that must exist...

That thing is LIGHT...the matirial form of light has no dualistic opposite...This brings me to this line of tinking now...

If light, has no opposite, and Satan/lusifer/antichrist are one and the same and lucifer means light and Christ also means light, and there is no opposite to LIGHT, who then is Lucifer/Christ...

The biblical story is an amazing work of history, but there are too many imperfections within it for it to be the text of the "one true faith"...

Concider it...Antichrist...anti, meaning the antythisis or opposite of the light...333

Interesting story, I have not read that one before.

Nice combination on the theories of creation and the big bang.

very interesting...

i think the story sounds logical i have expirenced some sounds of hell people screeming for help,trying to escape it gives me chills just thinking about it

I am not sure of whether or not the text was from that you posted about Satans story, but from the texts I had been reading when I was a child, as far as I know, Satan was Lucifers second in command, but was mistakenly named after Lucifer by the orthodox communities. The information I know, is that Satan had its final death in 1984, thus the Luciferian cults began. Not sure why Anton was called it Satanism, other than the fact that the word itself means chaos incarnate.

Good ol' boy satan that never felt like merging, after the end of who knows how many universes already exploded, but keeping the temple instead, a raa-jasic maafaka he is, but thats why we like him, the karma and the ego......

no matter who or what Satan is..He is Lord of my life..

i agree it make him sound human but in all actuallity werent we made in the image of him with free will and thingking

SAAATAAAAAN! WE LOVE YOOOOOOU!

And also how do we truly know that the bible was written back then by one of importance? man made and even though they may be entity's big deal..They are real, well Satan is..He rules and every damn one of us one time or another has sinned, why hide that? Look around..HAIL SATAN.....

Thank you Thank you.....er'...I mean uh yea uh...Hail hail...hee hee hee

and besides how does one think Lilith was made? not of Adam as Eve was...How does one explain that then? So much that the bible doesnt say so..MAN MADE

Well thats all just speculation, we need something more objective here.

Who knows if Satan even exists??

thats true also..so if He doesnt, who does Satanists follow?

Their own set of beleifs, based on what they have heard from the circumstances that are surrounding them.

that leads to the other question..how do we know god exists

Well that just dies out easy.


"God" is a word with out meaning.

just as i feel You are saying Satan doesntt exist..We know better

Why I never said that my Dear, I merely assumed.

i know that..You did raise a good question..But as a Satanist we know who is our God

interesting... but... dont know

true..they say he is( was ) real so why not Satan? in fact far as i remember He was(is) so why not now?

i recently found out about who and what Lilith was..Adam's first wife who was made as He was..How Judas and Cain was evil and vampiric so i see things how they really was..

Good information. I learned a few things

agrees

Hi welcome to the Jerry Springer show... meet Lucifer... he says he's evil and gonna take over the world... what's the story Lucifer... WELL JEREE I WAS KICKED OUTA HEAVEN... MICHAEL THE BITCH STOLE MY GOD AND I'M HERE TO KICK HIS ASS AND GET BACK MY MAN... Here he is Michael... Hey Man... F**K You Man... God is mine... *scuffle breaks out to chants of Jerry Jerry*

damn Uzziel

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