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About a year ago there were 3 posts made on The nature of magick made by Oceanne. This has become something of an interest to me and I wanted to find out more about it, plus I wanted to see what all of you thought about it as well.

http://vampirerave.com/forum/message.php?message=15607&group=1&catid=1

http://vampirerave.com/forum/message.php?message=15615&group=1&catid=1

http://vampirerave.com/forum/message.php?message=15842&group=1&catid=1

I would like to find out how everyone feels about this idea?

Have your thoughts changed any all all on the subject or are they still the same and if so how have they changed?

For those that are new to VR what are your thoughts on this?

Could you please post those here instead of the links? Post both so that way you give credit where credit is due. You will most certainly get more post =)

From the first post OCeanne says this......
nuclear science,geometry,sound,magick and space...do you think they are related? If so,how.

Infernalmage-for my reply, i reference the Ars Sanguines page for the coven of the darkest Blood.

From Wlfsbohne-Nuclear science, space, and magic are most definitely connected - at least so far as I have studied them. So far, the smallest thing we have discovered is an atom, and within the atom is the nucleus. All things known to us are comprised of atoms, therefor nuclear science is necessary. Space is a word which means a set parameter. In order to effect change through magic, one should know there surroundings to an extent.

I personally believe that the idea of magic without religious ties, has a more scientific basis than what I have described above, but I don't want to hog the forum.

from the next one that continues about geometry Oceanne writes----Due to a couple of requests,I have continued part two..
Shall we start with geometry?

The nature of majick continued..
Posted: 11:10:50 - Sep 13 2007
Times viewed: 652
Infernalmage
"The circle is the means by which the miniature cosmos is created. So that the ritual may begin to take shape on the aetheric plane. Drawn in sand, or carved in stone, cast in metal or scribed in fluids on paper these are the representations of the worlds by lines of power harnessed. What is above, shall be as below, as within so without. These are the axioms of correspondence as taken from the Kabylon, 1903. It is by these circles that we create a world of our own. We create what we desire when we are within our circle. Nothing is opposed to what it is that we desire, all things become possible and all things must be balanced within the circle or else there becomes Chaos, and nothingness.
When you create a circle it is the what is: when you are doing the work, it is what will be when the work is finished. The lines shall link your intent and concentrate the forces to be drawn into it. You are the creator of intent, the one who focuses the will by use of these lines. It comes to magnify the focus. As when you take a piece of paper, and mark on it a single spot in the center. The focus is drawn to it, so true is with a circle of the art. It provides a focus for the cosmological energy that you would focus. Not every spell requires this. Every ritual should, and Every rite must. If something is wrong within the angles of the design then it will become an unbalanced force, and its instability will collapse during or after the ceremony has reached its peak either making the person ill, or the intent become corrupted. Care should always be taken. It matters not what the lines are made of when the working is for general purpose. However it is a must that one makes use of the proper fluid, herbs, or other medium. Variations in materials used to mark these boundaries should be specific to the forces. " this is copywrited material not for anyother distribution

So what are your own opnions about work that is yours? What is your own study on the nature of this in regards to your own research?

and from the last one.

Due to length ,part two of the nature of majick has closed.However,I am continuing this thread,as I feel there has been alot of really good imput which has stirred questions as to what majick could in fact be.I have been working on an extensive article on this subject, and hope to have it posted soon.
As of now,I am conducting an experiment which looks into the subject of Cats and witchcraft,which was brought up by LadyDarkRayne in another thread..I feel that,not only does it include itself in this very subject, it can be a good starting point to focus on energies/frequencies that have an affect on those who practice the arts.
I would like you to ask yourselves how it is you feel about this whole subject in general,.Thank you all for your great imput.


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daemona
Fiend (10)
Posts: 205



The nature of majick part three...
Posted: 11:00:35 - Dec 27 2007
Times viewed: 521

Any animal can be dedicated as a familiar. Cats are just the ones that are usaually associated with witches.





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Oceanne
Sire (28)
Posts: 2014







The nature of majick part three...
Posted: 11:03:03 - Dec 27 2007
Times viewed: 518

Yes,that has been well established.What I would like to know,is why or what it is that might have started this relationship.Any thoughts on that?





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VampireSimon

No Longer
Registered
The nature of majick part three...
Posted: 12:02:53 - Dec 27 2007
Times viewed: 509

Look at here,here is decent article about black cat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_cat

Infernalmage----So what are your own opnions about work that is yours? What is your own study on the nature of this in regards to your own research?


My own opinion of this is that there are some things that we can not explain and there are some that we can. I have truly enjoyed going back and researching the links as there are things that I have never seen or come across before. I honestly feel that there is something to it and I just can't put my fingure on it. Its almost like this is the basis of life.

Magick is the art and science of causing change, whether internal or external, in conformity with the Will. It is a field of study that touches virtually all aspects of existence. There is no ONE correct system of magick, as there are an infinite number of ways in which to accomplish any one thing. Reality is Infinite. All things are interconnected.

Beginners: if you're looking to learn the real essence behind developing serious skill in magick, then I highly suggest obtaining and working through Franz Bardon's text "Initiation Into Hermetics." (Don't skip anything!) Magick is a psychic skill that involves conscious use of energy/consciousness to cause change in conformity with the Will. You could consider that text the equivalent of psychic-weightlifting. It's not for the lazy. While I won't say that any one book will necessarily help anyone accomplish anything (since magick isn't learned solely from a book, it's learned through practice and hard work), that text at least points you into a 'real' and practical direction and shows you what the real work (the essence of it) is like behind all the glorified symbolism of most of today's convoluted ceremonial systems.


http://realmagick.tripod.com/

Not knowing enough about this is one of the main reasons why I opted to repost it and see what knowledge or information that others have on it. Thanks for the site MW.

Infernalmage, you know dawned on me a few minutes ago thinking more about your questions. I feel that this is part of the reason why I keep reminding my self how important geometry and other areas can be. I mean how is it that sound can change and create things that one wouldn't be able to do with their hands. From looking at all of the previous posts I see the central forms of the basics of life. Almost like a starting point if you will.

Cheetahcry -

Here's a small reading list that is a little less "alternative" reading:

Plato's Theory of Forms

Hawking's A Brief History of Time
A Briefer History of Time

Einstein's Theory of Relativity
(the second part is primarily mathematics, so
if you're not an advanced mathemetician try to
find cliff notes).

Hans Jenny's Cymatics

That should at least get you started. A good beginner's guide to Alchemy could help as well. I would suggest Dennis Hauck's Idiot's Guide.

Yes,Jesuis,thats where one starts.And by doing so one will begin to see how everything links up ,and how sound plays its role.Among other things.

Mystic Winds,your comment about magic being the strength of will..no truer words can be said.

But wouldnt it be nice if we knew how the mind gets there? To the point of making it happen?

Funny thing too Cheetah,when we had those threads going,we were only able to really put i the very baics..never even got to the whole point of the thread.So thanks for opening this one,maybe we can go a little farther with it.

In a seperate conversation that I had had with Oceanne, we had suggested that the Holy Trinity could be devised as Light, Sound, and Form. The medieval astrologers and alchemists believed in the Universal Intelligence and Universal Soul. From these two things was everything derived, and within everything are these two reflections.

On the very basic level, (and I'm sure that some "physicist" here will correct me) light and sound come first. Light = Universal Intelligence, i.e. the product of high speed activity. Sound = Universal Soul, i.e. another product of high speed activity. Form is derived when the two are recombined.

You can have light without sound and sound without light - but you cannot have form without either light or sound.

This is a fundamental formula inherent in nature. The Father and Mother produce the Child. Light, the seed, i.e. the Father, is implanted into Sound, the womb, i.e. the Mother, which produces Form, i.e. any thing of matter.

Magick and sciences, mathematics and others are all directly linked in some form. It takes more then just pure will to accomplish some of the spells that are used by many witch/warlock.

See,I disagree that it takes more than pure will to make some things happen.Some do not need any spell ,other than the thought.And I think there are reasons for it.Some of which I had begun to present in those threads.

expanding on what Oceanne was just talking about. I will also agree with her on this. Yes the will to do the spell must be there but the true idea of the spell might not show its self until later.

The idea of sound being used to treat patients in a hospital and the idea of sound that can destory a single cell is beyound words for me. I never realized that there was any connection until now. We have all heard of the ultrasonic sound devices that are used in medicine and there has been topics about the load decibles(sp) within the mucis that we play destorying a certain of cells with in our body. One thing that has interested me is the fact that sound chants can be used to grow corn in the case of the Hopi Indians. How can this be though if sound and other areas are not a part of nature and magick together?

Exactly Cheetah..and that is only the tip of the iceburg.;)it also makes one think of magick a little differently..the nature of it.
I have said this before, that sound is the universial language..I still stand with that.
Can change the structure of a cell.
Can injure, kill or placate.
Generate life.
Heal.
Pulverise ie(kindney stones or virus)
Put our brains into any given state,calm or agitated.
levitate.
Extinguish flame..
And so much more.

Here is another part of the previous posts that really caught my attention in this.

From Oceanne
The nature of majick..
Posted: 02:15:23 - Sep 12 2007
Times viewed: 263

Lets see ....There are 7 colors and 7 tones in the dominant half. The 7 colors are yellow-orange, yellow, yellow-green, green, blue-green, blue, and blue-violet. These 7 colors are the tones A, E, B, F#, C#, G#, D#.


Now I can understand the 7 correspondents with this but what I did not understand was why it is has been chosen by some to ignore that the tones and colors are there for other reasons as well. These correspondences are the actual basis for structures that have been set up , for example with the angels trumpet. What I mean is the healing aspects or the fact that music can sooth the savage beasts. Is that the reason why some are more in toned with the music is the tones that are presented within in or is it more of a fascination?

This is one of the very reasons I have asked several times if those practising spells or healing..with candles ,symbols etc..why they were using what they were for a given spell..it seems that this has become and ignored or forgotten part of it..and oddly enough,one of the MOST important factors.

In one of the other posts Oceanne there was something about everything having different levels of energetic readings. You gave a list of herbs and the megahertz that they have. Is is possible that the human has a tone or reading like this?

Absoloutely Cheetah.Everyone reonates at different levels.If you wold like to know more about that,just let me know.

I might be jumping the gun a bit but this is just beyond belief. What's more is that it can show some proof as to what this thread is about.


borrowed from Oceanne's Journal

Beautful isnt it? Also,I might mention,there has to be more than one of these ...perhaps this might account for many of earth's energy "hotspots".

Jesuis, thanks for the information on Alchemy. I have never really been able to understand it that much but will lok more into the information that you have given.

Oceanne, wouldn't it be wonderful if this would explain the "hotspots"? I think that it would make much more since to know that the hotspots could create something like this or something else for that matter. I am finding though that the more I think about this that it has always been there and I just never seen it before until we talked about it more in depth.

Something else you might find intresting Cheetah,is that
Selenite and Apophyllite are the only two minerals powerful enough to clear negative energies out of Quartz Crystals.Selenite is a crystal form of Gypsum.And it got me to thinking about something else too..The ley lines.There are chapels and such built on intersections these places of power.Always present? Water.One of the things that is supposed to be potent? Holy water.Comparing holy water and what it does, and the supposed healing capabilities of water that has high concentrations of gypsum,Im wondering if there just might be a link here.

Something else you might find intresting Cheetah,is that
Selenite and Apophyllite are the only two minerals powerful enough to clear negative energies out of Quartz Crystals.Selenite is a crystal form of Gypsum.And it got me to thinking about something else too..The ley lines.There are chapels and such built on intersections these places of power.Always present? Water.One of the things that is supposed to be potent? Holy water.Comparing holy water and what it does, and the supposed healing capabilities of water that has high concentrations of gypsum,Im wondering if there just might be a link here.

The Beta and Alpha waves (8 to 30 Hz) of the human brain correspond to the
Schumann resonances... 7.8, 14, 20, 26, 33, 39 and 45 Hertz.
The 30 Hz high end of the Beta waves, coinsides
with the frequency of a cats' purr.
Incidently Selenite vibrates at 10.2 to 10.7 hz.
The natural frequencies of the Human Brain are as follows...
Beta waves 14 to 30 Hz
Alpha waves 8 to 13 Hz
Theta waves 4 to 7 Hz
Delta waves 1 to 3 Hz.

And as e know,Alpha frequencies have been associated with meditation and relaxation.

I honestly did not know of the the mineral used to clease the quartz crystal. Hmm, something else for me to research yet again. :-)

The ley lines have always been fascinating to me because of the energy that runs through them. The way that the water is always there and its cleansing too. Makes one feel really good. Now compared to the Holy water that I didn't think about. It has always been said that holy water was better then anything else.

"The 30 Hz high end of the Beta waves, coinsides
with the frequency of a cats' purr."

Now this makes me wonder why the Egyptians always held the cat at such a high honor? was it because of this or was it because they were in fear of them?

The Alpha frequencies I knew had a lot to do with meditation. That is one of the reasons why I have combined music of some sort with meditation. It seems to have a different affect.

Here is a thread link you might be interested in...

https://www.vampirerave.com/forum/message.php?message=15794&group=1&catid=1

I have a bit of a problem with all this because it is a tad skewed to one viewpoint in a way. Not everyone uses magical circles...I know the Wiccans do and some in ritual/ceremonial magick. Witches do not generally use magickal circles. (Traditional European)

As far as color correspondences they will vary as well by system. Alchemy has its own view of colors as well as chaosmagic. (they do not use Crowley K) I have seen Anton Channing set up a whole different view on all of this and some do not use these types of things at all to perform magick. I personally use sigils and charge them and no candles, no tools, none of that other stuff. They are only focus points for those that believe they work and help them in the magickal working. Not everyone is the same about these things.

I understand what you're saying Molidew..but you see,where colour meanings and all that might vary? Frequency does not...At least in certain aspects.Take for instance Red vibrates at a certain frequency,no matter the meaning.That frequency affects things in a certain way.Blended frequencies create harmonics..they dont change due to meaning.Cymatic patterns are created by frequency..that sound has a set of affects and a pattern that doesnt change according to someone's meaning..
And it is because of all this" meaning",(always according to someone else)that everything has become pretty much usless anymore..peeps practice their so called magic,based on what others say works.no matter the style or what they use ..yet they do not delve further into what or why it might work.In other words,what I have proposed before on this..is what I present works,not because I say it does,but because science says it can.

And sure,it might be skewed ,but if you can present something..anything at all that could make magic a possability?With the exception of belief or faith please. I would gladly listen and run it through the gauntlet.
And here are some things to ponder..I am using whatever is out there,because I dont care where it comes from, but one common theme in everything? From the bible to magic to all other religons? resonance/music/sound.
It can create life ,it can bring death. And can affect everything in between.
Plus,out of all the things I have researched pretaining to magic? It is the only thing that holds any weight across the board and remains a constant.So I can only give you what I am finding.

Matter fact Moli?..lets try something k? please post one of your sigils if you would,and I'll see if I can show you just what I mean.

I agree with both of you on this point so far (Mollidew and Oceanne). But the one thing that stands true to anything when dealing with the colors and and anything else is like Oceanne said the frequencies and other aspects do not change. At least from some of my own research it does not.

The point that I am trying to make is that there something that ties all of the magicks together.

Yes,and I think that link is sound. What I mean is, in the beginning? when they made their circles and symbols and such? Or chose their colours in their rituals...these were all representations of certain sounds.And so far I have been able to match most of those symbols with specific sounds via cymatics..and incidently,these sounds are all significant in that they coax the brain into states( by entrainment), that supposedly enable phsycic stuff to happen.I have a feeling this is what is meant when one says" it helps me focus".

But I know most dont have a clue as to what they are supposed to be "focusing" on.Or at least so far as I have seen.
And as far as the crystals..why are they always deemed so important?Because of what they are supposed to be able to do..focus? On what? Or do they simply help the mind drop into those states required that would allow a thought to manifest ..

And lets have a quick look at Wiccan since you mentioned it..Why is the "Goddess" so significant?Not to mention everything else that goes along with that..the list is huge.But look at the Earths frequency,then brain frequencies etc..and compare them.
And I havent even brought up the math yet.

Bottm line, is no one has to believe or buy into it..its all just stuff to consider if one feels they want to take a closer look at it all.

I was wondering where the holy water comes from? does it come from Priests or by natural methods, and what can the holy water be used for?

From my experience withthe crystals its the effecs that they give off. err, the energy that is given by them, we have discussed before there is a sound frequency for everything. the stones or crystals are used to help focus as well. But I do agree with you as well with what you have said so far.

Just wondering if the original holy water was maybe a Lithium rich water...Which can come from Springs .

Wondering if the salt in the water has something to do with it as well Oceanne.

Was going back over the old posts a minute ago and came across a link on science, magick, and the paranormal. After reading the text, I found my self wondering more about the symbols that are used in sciences and how close would these symbols be to the alchemist symbols?

Science, magick, and the Paranormal

Something else that has been peeking my curiosity is how the DNA strands fit into all of this ..............

Oh yes..that. ;)Nothing like a little superconductive DNA.

I believe the nature of magick is elusive and there will never be an accurate answer, but I do know that the manifestation of magick as I have experienced it is the manifestation of my will and energy to produce a desired result.

ok I know everyone has a bit of magick within them, but is it possible for one to know next to nothing about their family and pre disposed to the ability of magick and its uses without being familiar with your families background. I know that some families are predispositioned for the ability of magick and that it has been passed down for many generations, but what happens if somewhere down the line a few generations its lost and so is the history that went with it. Then one member of the family four generations later is born with it and growing more and more each day. How do I go back and find that heritage and so on.

I agree with both of you,wholeheartedly.

If you get proof that your magic worked, I guess the person would get a scientific explanation, unless a hard headed one convinces her/him and say it's a coincidance.

As for the old times, I would think maybe the old rituals were done by people who have more Science knowledge than anyone could have, Occultism, this reminds me about when something can be perceived as a miracle which in reality it is Science knowledge.

I agree with you DNG..gotta have that proof..or at least some damn strong evidence.And yes,I think they knew things that have been lost over time that ties science in quite tightly with magic.

tigerplayz- In reference to your question at the end of your post, I would say that there has to be maybe a book or something that an elder knows that would help you find your answers.

Like you Oceanne I would also have to agree with DNG's post here.

I have said it a 100 times..thats exactly how I feel about it Cheetah,as far as what DNG posted.I feel its all the same animal.