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Looking back into the early gathering, I see a lot of Society Groups pushed new publications for the masses (usually pretty dull, or cliche)
along came the scrutiny of A different Society Circle Goth. They where known to sink any book that reeked of "popular". What happened to these critical circles, it seems that todays goth just adopts any new fad.

Could it be a draw back to going "main stream" with Goth?

Please elaborate further on what you are seeking in this thread. Present a question or something that makes it where there can be a discussion. Thanks.

Thank you,

I am curious about what happened to that critical element of Goth Society.

A lot of things are attached, and adopted by the Gothic Subculture.

My Question is has Gothic Subcultures lost something by going Main Stream?

Is it not in Gothic Nature to be critical of Fad-ism?

it just amuses me to see those fad goths, I have seen a different goth, back before I knew what Goth was. Dark humor, and sharp tongued ladies have always been attractive to me, so to my surprise when I go seeking Gothic "Scenes" and find Kids that just got out of their church youth group wearing plastic Bondage equiment, Black Dyed Funeral Veils, and calling themselves Goth...

Well what do you consider "Gothic Subcultures"? Secret meetings in basements or cemeteries? Clubs nobody can get in without the secret goth password? Not sure what you mean. :P I mean, when I first used to dress in black in the 80s in high school, I am not even sure what they called it! I was just "different". No underground stuff, though I am sure there were around, with people getting together. In the 90s, still wearing black, I am still not sure what it was being called, officially. I know I was called a witch. Ignorant people.

Hell, back in 50s, etc., the people wearing black were beatniks, rebels, poets, artists, bohemians. I pretty much thought of myself in that regard. I still do. haha...minus the black.

Now, since there is so much of mainstream "goth" out there, there is much to offer for whatever you are into. Pretty scary actually. I think people have the wrong idea about what goth is, anyway.

There was a critical element to Society Circles, in the hay day of Evangalism, people would dress in mourning cloths to stir off the "cheery folk" popularity could be said to be a bane to those that like to see new things.

So is Goth more then just image and presentation, or is there more to the subculture? It seems what passes for goth, is just adopted, and adapted fad.

As I see it, mainstream changes for every passing moment. What someone percieves as 'cool' or acceptable usually sepends on the ones who voice their opinions. Is goth being acceptable by those around us really that bad of a thing? I tend to think it's really not a bad thing at all.

So when a group projects themselves as Goth, and presses their fad idea of goth to others and this ends up causing confrontations in their community to what those people have been led to believe (through curious observation) to be goth, even if those people may have been interested in the Actual Gothic Subculture, they are likely to Debase that which declares Goth.. because of the pomp or a few bad representative people.

What of the Critical Nature of Goth. What about the shunning of artificially bright pop-culture, now I see "goth" petting other subcultures. Adopting every little stray fad that comes along, i ask a simple base question to a person claiming goth, and i get some shallow rhetoric.

Is Goth Dead? Or is it just a Zombie Subculture?

Ok Dabbler...can you define Goth to us in the way that you see Goth to be? It would be much easier to respond if we had a clearer picture. I believe the "Goth" of today isn't truly "Goth" as they are labeled that by themselves or by others due to the way they dress mainly and even the type of music they listen to.

That is just it, by looking into the limited history of Goth (mostly Victorian Era) I find Not so much Goth Subculture, but a Society Of individuals who challenged the Status Quo. Turned against the popular stereotype that everyone needed to be happy.. and possess a sunny disposition.. people that collectively Criticized Literature considered to be Fascinating by the masses. Those that didn't fall into the expansion of popular fads. Those with Intrest not in any beat horse beliefs, or concepts, but turned to Noir humor.

So in essence they scoffed at society and their views and the fact that life needed to be all sunshine and roses. So based on that alone does that make "Goth" culture that much different today as a whole?

I see the term goth being assigned to some pretty shallow things/people. Like a person claiming to be Hip-Hop Goth?

Do you feel their are people that pose as goth, at the same time they hope to learn what Goth is?

Oh most definitely Dab...I believe there are lots out there who claim to be one when in fact they don't know what one is by definition. As with alot of things people apply a label on themselves to make a point or a statement to get attention rather than truly being that thing in which they claim.

So does that make a squalled soup of the Gothic Stew?

Using the term loosely I guess it would. But for those who are serious goths I feel that would be an insult to them.

Most subcultures suffer, to one degree or another from "posers", it is easier to do so when the Subculture is so fragmented in their definition.

Someone that sees Costume, and follows the promotion of music, tend to use that limited source to base all their mimicry on.

Others, for example the kid that learns about Goth from a church group sermon/lesson will (when they stray from that church, perhaps even apostate) likely "rebel" against the church and become "goth" using the lesson/sermon as a guide line for being Goth-like.

When there is a sub-culture that is considered to be anti-social you will find individuals who will adopt it because they are wanting to be viewed as anti-social and so will adopt the garb or the behavior to make it appear as if they are truly something that they really are not.

Then by wanting to be accepted as anti social.. or non-conformist, they are conformist indeed, and actuality. When the Misfits find their nitch, they are a collective. To be accepted into a collect one just needs to be. Not be this way or that way. Thank you. I am pat it now, but I still would like to hear what Gothic People feel about fad beliefs in present culture. Literary and cultural.