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This information was taken from the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain
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In stories common to the Abrahamic religions, Cain or Káyin (קַיִן / קָיִן "spear" Standard Hebrew Qáyin, Tiberian Hebrew Qáyin / Qāyin; Arabic قايين Qāyīn in the Arabic Bible; قابيل Qābīl in Islam) is the eldest son of Adam and Eve, and the first man born in creation according to Genesis.

The Hebrew word for Cain, qayin, originally meant a lance or spear. The word also may be related to a mid-1st millenium BCE South Arabic word qyn, meaning a metal smith. The word has become associated with the word qanah, meaning "to obtain," or "to provoke to jealousy" because of a word-play in Gen. 4:1 between qayin and qanithi, a derivative of qanah ("And Adam had sex with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Qayin, and said, 'I have obtained [qanithi] a man from YHWH.'"). Nevertheless, there is no etymological relationship between these two words. Qayin was also the name of an ancient tribe friendly to Israel, also referred to as the Kenites, from whom some scholars attribute the stories about Cain.

According to the Bible, Cain was a tiller of the land while his younger brother Abel was a shepherd. God's rejection of Cain's sacrifice (minchah in Hebrew) of fruit and grain in preference to Abel's offering from his flocks drove Cain to murder his brother in a jealous rage. When God later questioned Cain as to his brother's whereabouts, Cain answered, "Am I my brother's keeper?"

God decreed that Cain was cursed so that he could no longer till the ground, and that instead he must be a fugitive wanderer. Cain protested that he would be killed by those he encountered, in reply to which God gave Cain a special mark and decreed that any who killed him would suffer vengeance "sevenfold." Cain then settled in the Land of Nod, east of Eden (or was forced to wander the world, depending on ones view of the translation). See Cain and Abel for a fuller story and some exploration of the mythological significance.

According to the Book of Jubilees 4:9, Cain married his sister Awan, and the couple had their first son Enoch approximately 196 years after the creation of Adam. He then established the first city, naming it after his son Enoch. According to the Book of Jubilees 4:31, Cain died when his house collapsed on him, in the same year that Methuselah died.

The nature of Cain's mark is unspecified in the Bible. In popular mythology, however, the mark has been thought to be a mark on the forehead, or possibly red hair. Formerly, a widespread belief was that the mark of Cain was black skin. This idea was used as an argument in favor of slavery; however, that view has generally fallen out of favor as a baseless justification for enslavement.

Cain is also thought to have fathered the Biblical races of giants and monsters—the so-called children of Cain. This tradition has no basis in the Bible itself, which portrays Cain's descendants as ordinary human beings and states that the "Nephilim" (giants) were born of the union of the "sons of God" (generally interpreted as fallen angels) with the daughters of men

Qabil (Cain in Islam)
The story of Cain and Abel is also told in the Qur'an (5:27-32), where Cain is not named; however, in Islamic tradition he is called Qabil, while Abel is called Habil. In the Qur'an, as in the Bible, Qabil's sacrifice was rejected whereas Habil's was accepted, and Qabil, enraged, killed his brother and became evil. God then sent a crow that scratched in the earth, to prompt Qabil to bury his brother; seeing it, he said "Woe is me! Was I not even able to be as this raven, and hide the naked body of my brother?" and he regretted his deed. It was on this account, according to the Qur'an, that God ordained for the Children of Israel that "if anyone slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people; and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people."

No mention is made of the mark of Cain, or of Cain's later wanderings.
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Now I hope this gives some idea on the whole Cain thing and the fact that he cannot be a creator of Vampyric Condition. Specially since, it was a White Wolf created theory that became popular and was spread through out the world.

- Sin

There is more to it, but I really didn't feel like placing the Mormon portion of Cain in. It didn't sit right with me and the simple fact it was so... dumbed down and so goodie goodie really mad my stomach hurt.

Sorry but Cain didn't have a sister...and his curse wasn't Vampirism....his curse was banishment to Africa and being *marked* was he was the first black man...growing up in a Baptist home I know this and Lillith was a made up woman written in the Mormans bible....sorry

Don't get on my ass about that, this is what I found off the link I had posted above.

As for where you grew up, thats fine, yet remember different cultures have different versions of legends of biblical times.

There is a whole world out there that has different aspects and names for the same idea and concept. At times, the same history or idea of legends.

- Sin

DarkWolfman -

Just a note.

Lilith was not written about first in the Mormon's Doctrine and Covenants, or their Pearl of Great Price, et al.

She has been written about, pondered, pontificated on for CENTURIES before. I do not recall at the moment whether the earliest writings I have found were Rabbinical writings (Torah, Talmud? I get the two confused, which was scripture, which was discussion) or Persian writings.

There are several excellent threads regarding Lilith here. She is not Mormon Creation.

(I apologize for interjecting into your thread, Scion, but I had to clear that bit up. Thanks.)

No Problem at all Requiem. Lilith is about as old as any of the Jewish biblical references.

- Sin

Lets see what I can pull up on Lilith and place in the forum.

Scion, find some of the old threads through a forum search.

If theya re closed, send me a link, and I'll pull them to open.

I will take a look, I also posted what was on that site, of the different aspects of the Lilith Persona.

- Sin

I can't seem to find it, so I'm Asuming that those posts are way back there.

- Sin

Got a question,

So how many believed Cain was the actual maker to the vampyric condition, either fiction or non-fiction as it is?

Thats exactly the question with which this Thread should have started with. :)

I should have, but didn't really think about it till after the fact. What happens when I decide to stay up extremly late and not get any rest.

- Sin

I guess no further comment is needed about that.. I'll proceed with this thread's subject matter.

I first encountered this connection between Cain & Vampirism when I started to read form white wolf sources... as a theory it gives much sense & it's quite an amusing thought. but rather then that I never found any writing which indicated the same sort of story so I have no comfirmation to connect to, yet.

I got the same thing when I started to play Vampire the Masquerade. Yet, when doing outside research on the topic at hand, all I was able to come up with was information from those who get lost in the fiction of the game.

Which, unfortunatly, alot of the actual vampyre culture has sunk itself into the LARP and brought the Cain and the book of Nod into view as an actual source of Vampiric information.

If there is some connection between Cain, the first murderer and actual condition Vampyrism, then I will be surprised.

- Sin

for darkwolfman something i found on her





LEGEND OF LILLITH - "My name thou knowest not, and yet shall know, And know too late. But, know thou this indeed: Joy is my sister. Sister I, to Death." It is said that Lillith was the twin sister of Adam and dwelt with him in the Garden at Paradise. Adam was king of Eden and Lillith wished to be co-ruler with him, but the Lord of Light permitted it not. Lillith was beautiful and wise. She wearied of her brother, Adam, who was less wise than she. Lillith refused to bear children from Adam. The Lord of Light was angered and turned Lillith out of Paradise. Samuel, an angel of the Lord of Light and a son of god, fell in love with Lillith. To Samuel, Lillith bore three half-god, half-human children, all called the nephilim. Their wisdom, power and beauty was so great that the children of Darkness were afraid of them and called them monstrous names to defile them. Lillith would not be defiled. From her beloved Samuel she learned the wisdom of the Lord of Light and became the first witch. She lived as a daughter of the night mother, calling the people to dance and be joyous by the light of the moon. Her symbol was the night owl, and those who followed her called her Arionrhod. The children of Darkness trembled and barred their doors at night seeking to protect themselves lest Lillith take them and teach them the ways of the wise ones, the witches of old.

Litllith is an archetype for the woman who refuses to be dominated by man. She was created the stories say when Adam was created from dust just as Adam was, she claimed to be his equal. When Adam wanted to lie with her she wanted to know why she must be on the bottom. This shows she was in full control of her sexuality. She is a largely misunderstood archetype who has been called Poetress of Darkness, Imp of Impetuosity, and Occasional Serpent of Seduction. . She is deeply committed to her personal freedom and keeps her moral strength alive. She was kicked out of Eden and then Adam was given another wife. In some tales she is the snake of the garden who tempted Eve. Some stories say she is a demon,others a fallen angel. . She has a mysterious power that is permanent, direct, and instinctual. To be cast out for not obeying your husband is enough to make you a snake or a demon in the history of the Jewish people.

Cin was the seed of Lucifer, and Able the seed of Adam, Which is why God said to Eve I seperate his seed from the seed of Adam and it is why God never looked upon Cain with favor, alos it is where cain got his jeleous heart and murderous intent, you see it was not an apple tasted but sweet carnal desire Lucifer showed her the way of procreation, to be like God , what a perfect deciever is was and still is.

Reguardless of the sources, this is still more information about Cain than I knew before I read this thread. Very interesting and thought provoking.

As far as Cain being the father of vampires, either in fact or fiction, well I have always thought that Vampires started as a genetic mutation among humans and then became a seperate species unto themselves. So I personally feel that the Cain legend is a myth.

The idea of Cain being the father of vampires is new to me.

I didn't know much of that information but the idea of Cain being the father of all vampires... I still believe that Dracula is the father of Vampires.

I highly doubt any figure that is brought up to light and regarded so highly would be our pregnator. Cain, Dracula, ect, are just what people would like to believe we came from. Why not be related, in some sense, to someone who was so famous for their horrific deeds?

The whole Cain thing came from the simple fact that White Wolf created the idea, and people went with it.

Dracula, well that is Bram Stokers little thing there, and before hand, peoples own fears about a normal individual.

- Sin

The angels of gOd looked down on earth and seen the daughters of men and lusted for them , the angels fell from heaven stayed with the daughters and their offspring were giants and fed offthe blood of men and as far as cains offspring he was banished to the land of Nodd where he married, it does not say who he married but his offspring where evil and cast in all directions,

I do not know if anything good came of the Cain personafication into Vampiric "Lore" as some would say.

All it has caused was striff, it ended up bringing sheep into the wolves domain, which would give us more ground to hide, yet we end up using these people for our own means, lying to them, saying they will be made like us, but in fact, only brain washed into believing they are like us, when infact, they are just people taught to steal Life energy through verious means.

- Sin

wonderful post it was filled with somethings i didnt know very well written also thanks for the read when will you post another?

Give me a bit of time and I will add something else in the forums regarding information of vampirism or something else.

- Sin

I concider mysaelf a Cainite. And yes there are some that believe he is the Father of Vampires and Lilith is our mother.

You know what Canites are right or is it Kaanintes? Its a tribe of Nomads in the middle east who are supposedly the decendants of Cains Tribe.

To each his own, Different Folks different strokes.

- Sin

If you beleive the old testament and in the book of Noah it says the decendents of cain were wiped out with the flood.
I dont know though just what Ibelieve it says.

i dont read much of the religious stuff but i was slightly farmiliar with cain becouse of being raised christian
i would like to say to anyone who ditched your theory(researched i understand) that we all have our own opinions and that ditching another persons opinion is rude and imature.

Everyone has an aspect of Cains Story. Yet, there are those that do refure to him as some dark father to the Condition, which was something completly made up by White Wolf Game Studios

lovly read

Wow... thats informative... i never fully understood all that stuff but you made it easy for me to comprehend!!

i believe Cain probably was the father of vampirism, or close to it....great job on ur info here :)

wow guys show a little temperance and mercy she's only share'n what she read....

very informative and interesting.......id like to learn more.....

WOW!!!!!

kool info
i love reading about cain

I never read about Cain into much detail.

see i like cain because there is soo much to read in the right places
and the different stories.