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Collective Initiatation, and Potential Clique Abuse
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dabbler
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16:10:52 Apr 10 2010
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What should anyone seeking initiation in a Lifestyle Group be aware of?

What red flags should they watch for?

What criteria makes a collective " better" then another.

What things are not necessarily " bad" but unappealing to most.

How do you receive a person intersted in your perspective collective, or Group?




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BeautifulEnlightenment
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16:13:05 Apr 10 2010
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What do you mean by Lifestyle Group?



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dabbler
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16:26:49 Apr 10 2010
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Everyone here knows what I mean.

I seem to always get this question every time I say Collective, and or Group.

It really makes me curious as to how people get so engaged in semantics.

Collectives, Groups, Cliques..
Lifestyle Groups.

Anybody that gets together for a common shared purpose.



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Zazz
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16:42:25 Apr 10 2010
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hmm could just be me but i thought it was pretty clear.......



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dabbler
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16:43:54 Apr 10 2010
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Why ask? What is meant by Lifestyle Group?

Lifestyle groups are just another collective type.

I have posted references to lifestyle groups, and others post responses as if they had been offended by the mention of such a phrase.

The theme if this site pretty much preceeds this thread.



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ShadowSpell
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16:54:09 Apr 10 2010
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Honestly I think everyone should have different expectations and be aware of different "red flags" depending on what group they're seeking to gain entry too. It all depends on the content of the group, what they're all about.
Specifics would be appreciated, and would probably help this thread to not receive an early closure.
Are you talking about mentorships/coven groups here on V.R...or maybe even the groups of individuals that have become friends over their allotted time here...or are you talking about different groups away from V.R? In other words, this topic is too broad.


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dabbler
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17:04:20 Apr 10 2010
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The very content of the site.

Any collective, related to the sites theme.

I would include covens, collectives, groups.

I read journals that rant about the abuse people get after joining certain covens here. As well as off site.

I left it general to allow responses to the spectrum.

Clique abuse included.

Anyone can say.." We are Vampi(y)res" and say hey you want to join our group?

What should one consider before engaging with commitment to such professed, or established Collectives, Wether they be Occult based, Vampire, Vampyre. Lifestyle. Goth.. Sci-fine, power punk.. ect.



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dabbler
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17:08:08 Apr 10 2010
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What should a group or collective ( online, or off) avoid when it cones to potential initiates?

What filter should be considered?



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ShadowSpell
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17:09:11 Apr 10 2010
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Well when joining a vampire rave mentorship, Scifi group, power punks group etc...there is no real danger. You can simply elect to leave. I think the most "danger" any one can face when joining Vampire Rave is being inducted into a coven that they simply won't enjoy. Besides, forced inductions happen, it's a site policy and most of the time people really don't have a say in what society to join...so red flags don't really matter. You can simply elect to ignore all coven messages/messages from members of that coven and steer clear from the forum. If you do decide to do that...then it's like you're not even in a coven. As far as "cliques" go, they obviously exist and there's nothing anyone can do about them. Who says it's a bad thing? It's essentially a strong bond they friends share. Alliances between societies can result from such "cliques" I don't see how being friends with a certain group of individuals can be percieved as a negative thing or even have red flags. Unless you know, the people happen to have a common negative aspect of their character. Even then, if you do happen to have a negative encounter with a select group of individuals on this site, the block button exists for a reason.


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dabbler
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17:15:35 Apr 10 2010
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What would you say of groups, or such that extend beyond virtual.

As far as covens here go, I have read journals that demonstrate mental abuse by coven mates, and coven masters, that escalate into off line situations.

The common denominator in those cases being that had the person researched before progressing to an off line commitment, they would have read any number of revealing information regarding the individuals pattern if abuse.



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ShadowSpell
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17:17:56 Apr 10 2010
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...I've never heard of a coven's problems escalating into offline problems. In any case that could definitely be considered as harassment and can be dealt with according to the varying levels of "abuse. In which case if you are discreet in the information you allow people to have...that will never happen. The only power someone has over you is the power you allow them to have.
As far as groups offline, I'd still need specifics, because all of the potential problems that could arise are subjective to the type of group that you are referring to.


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dabbler
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17:25:37 Apr 10 2010
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The ones with more potential for being problematic are the ones that claim affiliation with established collectives ( Vampi(y)re related.

I have seen Wiccian collectives ( note I did not say coven, a collective is made up of networking covens) turn bitter because of scketchy individuals using references to gain access to collective gatherings.

For those that are involved in Vampi(y)re collectives ( lifestyle or otherwise) how does ( if at all) a person representing that group disclose initiation?



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dabbler
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17:34:13 Apr 10 2010
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Claiming to be affiliated with some esoteric collective works as bait for certain I individuals on this site.

No one challenges their professed affiliation.

Such people conduct slander brigades on anyone who becomes disenchanted with their behaviour. Even if such individuals deny the alligations against them, it should become evident by the number of cases of behavior cited against the person.

Yet the desperation people feel to belong over rides instinct.

Usery is often common in such sketchy groups, and they lack any commity, or " chain of command".



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ShadowSpell
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17:43:52 Apr 10 2010
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Ok, I see what you're saying...kind of. We've seen an example of this over the past few days here on V.R. I will not go into specifics due to this being a public forum, however I think the problem with certain groups displaying this type of behavior is...well they rely too heavily on their chain of command, and no longer see themselves as being responsible for their own behavior. They rely on such excuses as, "He or she told me to do it."
I think in regards to harassment cases that take place on Vampire Rave, people forget that this is just a website, and that who ever is asking them to do whatever it is they're being asked to do...well, they have no real power over them and they can still do what they want to do, and think for themselves.
If that makes any sense.


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dabbler
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18:27:49 Apr 10 2010
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Once such I individuals take it to the next level though ( off line commitment) that behaviour has a potential to turn into actually present abuse.

So here, I am offering a proactive.. preemptive approach, rather then restating in the hindsight about aftermath..

This is a what should have indicated earlier that what a person got involved in was too good to be true.



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ShadowSpell
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18:41:49 Apr 10 2010
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Well obviously before becoming involved with any group you should take on the task of digging up stuff from the group's past. Ask questions, read journals whatever you have to do. (This is in regards to Vampire Rave societies). I don't see anyone carrying coven drama to the outside world, and if they do, like I mentioned before it can be dealt with.
As for specific signs, well like I've also mentioned before, it's all subjective depending on the groups you are specifically referencing.

Due to the lack of further discussion/discussion potential I'm closing this thread.


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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by WallFlower on Apr 10 2010  •

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