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"Supernatural Vampires" Real or not?
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malakh
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19:13:42 Jan 09 2011
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I have started a discussion like this one two years ago more or less... and i wanted to discuss it again.

So, is it so difficult to believe in the existence of supernatural vampires? Is it so hard? How come? The world is full of supernatural signs and mysteries that we don't know even ten per cent of it... and yet here we are talking about the dark things... talking about the magic beings and spirits within... But wait... what is this sound that I hear? thmmm... just the same negative answers the Vampires are not real... that they don't exist in the supernatural spiritual side of life! Oh come on... Really?

Even the bible talked about such beings... You may not believe in God or whatsoever but i know i can talk to spirits, demons to be more accurate... the says that the sons of God made love to the daughters of men along time ago and they had sons completely different of what we are now... they were sons of angels (demons now) and humans... now really, what do you think they were capable of? they weren't only giants... many of them with all certainty were and are till this day (hidden for now) the supernatural beings we always refuse to believe in... Even dragons existed, but we can't conceive
that in our narrow minds now can we?

What do you think? what is your point of view about all this?

Now dark fellows of the night, fulfill me with your thoughts!

//_^



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Cabrion
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19:20:33 Jan 09 2011
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Perhaps our narrow minds should simply stay the course until they actually see the things logic tells them cannot exist.



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malakh
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19:26:04 Jan 09 2011
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But what is logic anyway? if not concept made by man and for man?! isn't that right? you can not see the wind but you can see the devastating effects that it causes right... things will continue to exist whatever they are even if we don't believe it or understand it... no?



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Cabrion
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21:01:39 Jan 09 2011
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the effects of the wind are observable and measurable, hence the reason we believe the wind exists at all, and hence the reason it has a science all of it's own.
Logic is making sense of the world by observation of facts, not listing fanciful things and saying 'what if' while roaming through old texts of people who wrote out their 'what if's and saying it all matches up so perfectly, it must be real.



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malakh
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21:14:36 Jan 09 2011
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This is an endless discussion and that is why I like it so much... so in your point of view it only makes logic if it is proven by science and by "seeing" it, right? so, in your way of speaking i can use the same arguments and tell you that in this immeasurable universe can exist extraordinary creatures that are way ahead our comprehension, our science just hasn't discover it yet... and all in all it makes perfect logic if someone long ago has talked and wrote about vampires and supernatural beings living among us, that makes it true... we distorted things... it was us that mystified their existence... not science... 150 years ago it was impossible to believe that such animal as a dinosaur existed... and there you have it... they did...



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Cabrion
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23:46:15 Jan 09 2011
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I'm lovin it too ^_^
Unfortunately, we cannot say whether or not they really did exist, or at least i can't, as everything i have seen points to it being fraudulent. The thoughts of 'could be' don't hold much weight. As, following that line, it could be that the entire world has joined together since your birth to lie to you about everything, and in actuality you are the only real human, while everyone else is an alien posing as a human to see how your mind works. it would not be possible for you to tell me in all certainty that i am wrong, as every outside source would be deception, every shred of knowledge available to you would be tainted by it. you would simply have to accept it as an extremely unlikely possibility.
Those of us who don't believe in bigfoot or the loch ness monster, or aliens roaming the galaxy, or even supernatural vampires (mystified beyond what they would have been or not, which makes them... idk, mundane supernaturals? must explain) have to take the stance that, based on all we've seen, it is extremely unlikely.
People take that statement and run with it, however. "Ah, even the Smart people think it's possible!"
No, not really, we're just accepting the fact that we don't know everything =) but still believe the thought to be false.



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LordWolf
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01:00:45 Jan 10 2011
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it is easy to say one believes or disbelieves, but what is the evidence? evidence is the core of logic and science, and while i am very open minded, i still do need some sort of evidence.

what evidence is there in ancient records? in myth, legend and lore?

is there anything more recent record wise that would indicate that such beings might exist?

if such exists, i really would love to see it.

~W~



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malakh
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01:04:20 Jan 10 2011
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Hey Cabrion very well putted... I liked your perspective look about such matter... it shows that you put a thought on it and not only throw random words... and by that way of thinking we can not tell for sure if they exist or not... at least , we are laking proofs to do so... but if you look a little deeper you'll find some things that will keep you intrigued enough to search for the truth about all this mainstream way of thinking...

You know, I live in Portugal which is my homeland, and here we heard stories about werewolf's and strange creatures from our grandfathers and grandmothers... if you ever heard of that you'll know what i'm talking about... and not long time ago, around 1800 more or less... there were some intriguing news in England in the newspapers of that time... I know because i already had some of that old newspapers in my hands and I read the news... about beings attacking the people of the villages of that time...

perhaps they can hide them selfs really good don't you think?

//_^



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Cabrion
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01:20:03 Jan 10 2011
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I heard something about that, or at least i think it was something like that.
A group of people were abducting other people, draining their blood into a large bowl-like object, and eventually selling everything of use to the black market (Including the blood, if i remember correctly, which was drained from the bowl and put into jars?)

As usual, i will cheer on anyone who searches for the truth, and will eagerly await any evidence that presents itself =)



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malakh
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01:36:12 Jan 10 2011
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Exactly my dark fellow... and with that I rest my case... for tonight... hehehe

late here in Portugal...

Stay well and thanks for sharing the thoughts

//_^



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LordWolf
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01:57:58 Jan 10 2011
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very late indeed...but please dont rest this case....i really would like this conversation to continue, as on the one hand i want know the truth...but i do hope in my heart that such beings exist.
~W~



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malakh
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02:12:42 Jan 10 2011
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Alright LordWolf, I'll be glad to pick it up again... tomorrow... hehehe...

But let me tell you something that is going to sheer you up for tonight... you can start changing your thoughts about vampires and other "supernatural beings", not that I'm gonna proof anything to you with words.. is not that at all... and I can't proof anything from here, and you being so far, in the side of the ocean... but I know a few things though, that can make wonder and think about it... and this i Know for sure... that one day, and is not that far, all those fantastic creatures will come out of their hiding places and make a living hell among us... but is not going to be pretty or nice... they are kept in secret for a reason... and they are instruments for a purpose... and the time is coming at really fast pace... be prepared :)

Goodnight for now dark fellow of the night

//_^



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Metztli
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03:37:18 Jan 10 2011
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This discussion reminded me of a half-remembered quote. Anyone care to correct and attribute it? It went something like 'Once something has been imagined, it exists.'

(PS Good to see you prowling about again LordWolf!)



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Doru
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04:16:40 Jan 10 2011
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Reality is based on how "we" perceive things to be, not necessarily how they are. Thus, everyone lives in the reality they see.



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malakh
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16:59:38 Jan 10 2011
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But the thing is, that we are not sovereigns of this planet, of this universe and anything else you can imagine... we born, we grow up and we... DIE. and that is key to everything... why so much effort in building things, in destroying things in making and unmaking if each one of us have to die? actually we don't need 99% of the things that exists in nowadays... people would live a much happier life if they stop searching for stuffs and wealthy and garbage that is completely useless for our happiness... humans need humans to speak and enjoy the simple things of life... just look at the animals and you'll see it... lions with lions, cats with cats, birds with birds ans so on and so on... now, we think we need cellphones and fancy cars and big houses to live a happy life... that is just pure nonsense... the more we have the more we want, simple as that.

Now, about the things we don't understand... you don't need to see it with your eyes to make it real... actually there are way much more out there that we have knowledge of...

Now, and with an experience of mine i'll prove you guys that... i once played the ouija board, about 18 years ago more os less... and you can all say it is just in our minds or that we have the power in our brains to make that and so on and so on... but the thing is, that i played the board with a bunch of teenagers (I was one as well) and we had lots of pot in our heads, it just happened that we read some books and had the knowledge to use the ouija board... now, at first it was simple and not harmful... but as time goes by strange things started to happen... and soon we were seeing objects flying against walls without anyone touch them... we were able too know where were our friends without cellphones... just by asking the spirits... we started to see demons and all sorts of spiritual things... we could increase our strength allot just by asking the spirits to do... and many other "impossible" things... now explain to me with science if this was real or not... and this my fellows of the night... this I can prove it to you

just play the damned game... but be aware, it's evil as hell and will make suffer as you involve your selfs into it.



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Darkblue
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01:33:35 Jan 11 2011
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It really wasn't so long ago it was impossible in most cultures to believe the Earth was anything else but flat. In many respects nothing has changed. The majority of the western world lived closed, blinkered and very boring lives where only their opinion counts. That isn't to say they are bad and it isn't my place to say their opinions are wrong. It is best to say they only believe in what they can see or touch and little else counts.



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malakh
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01:36:10 Jan 11 2011
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Yes indeed Darkblue... you have a point there... :)



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UpirLikhyj
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03:04:12 Jan 11 2011
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It's not that it "so hard" to believe. Believing is the easy part. Anyone can choose to believe anything they wish. But believing it doesn't make it so... despite the protestations to the contrary from the "perception-is-reality" crowd. Perception that is contrary to reality does not result in the actual creation of a new reality... but instead the invention of Delusion. And that delusionary "reality" only lasts as long as it takes for it to collide headlong into actual Reality.

For example, believing that you can... say... fly like a bird only works so long as you don't actually leap out a skyscraper window expecting your "perception" to become "reality." Should you be foolish enough to believe what others here have attempted to proclaim, that perception is indeed reality, then it will be Reality that rises up to violently introduce itself to you at the precise moment that the sidewalk slams into you when your body impacts against it at about 180 MPH.


Does that mean we should only believe what we can immediately perceive with only our five limited senses? Of course not! This would be as ridiculously narrow minded a view as would be unpardonably gullible a view that believes as true anything and everything imaginable.

As LW pointed out so very well... we should follow the evidences wherever they might lead. And those evidences are often not seen or heard or felt but are, instead, reasoned and extrapolated from the observable universe.

For example, we knew Black Holes existed in the universe long before they could actually be visibly evidenced. How was this possible? Because their were mathematcial evidences that were supported by the evidenfes of physics and observable phenomena that hinted at their existence. Only within the past few years... well more than 80 years after they were first theorized given the evidences... have we actually found visible evidences of them.

We've never seen a live dinosaur or touched one... yet we know they exist due to the fossil evidences discovered. They were not "believed" into existence. Instead, the evidences were FIRST found and then the theories regarding those evidences developed from there.

As for "supernatural" vampires... we find no such evidences for any such, as such. However, we do find compellingly similar if not near-identical accounts spanning the globe of celestial visitors described in extremely similar fashion who visited various ancient cultures of varying races across the globe who mated with Human females and sired children with them who were described almost unanimously as "mighty men" and "men of renown" (Genesis 6:1-4, to name one well-known source)... and who possessed a singular unique and superior sensual and emotional quality that had them known as the consorts of "all females" while, depending on the culture, occasionally despised by the men as a result. And in those cultures where despised by envious males, they were vilified as evil, as blood-thirsty, as demons.... and millennia later, as "vampires."


- Upir'



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malakh
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03:26:40 Jan 11 2011
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Very nice Upir, thank you for your contribution... I will not reply to that tonight, because here in Portugal is too late by now (3.18 am), but I will gladly reply unto you tomorrow (God's will)... But i can tell you that i'm going to use the immaterial energy... the magical forces if you wish... and that can not or they tend to not prove scientifically... but that kind of forces are here and if a human being or a vampire (remembering that his body is just like ours) used those magical forces, that energy will not remain in the records after the use... will not appear in the archeology fossils like dinosaurs or whatever... they simply are used at one time for example, no matter where or when and after use disappear... so, how can you prove with science that a vampire or a human can for example run in a supernatural speed? or levitate objects?

ok... pick the topic again tomorrow... but nice post though.. thanks... goodnight for now :)



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Cabrion
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02:30:18 Jan 12 2011
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The mighty men in genesis were the dudes that King David selected as his favorites, all of them considered themselves extremely blessed in the spirit of the Lord, and all of them had the backstory to prove it.
(There were around 30 of them, and each had faced vast amounts of enemies single-handedly. The leading number of enemies killed in battle was around 800,000 i think?)
anyway, a kid named Joab was made captain of all of david's armies, which included the mighty men, as a result of being able to take Zion, which before that moment stood as an impenetrable city with high walls and many soldiers inside. Singlehandedly.



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UpirLikhyj
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04:55:46 Jan 12 2011
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Unfortunately, the time frame doesn't work for these "mighty men of old, men of renown" to have been the least affiliated with King David.

The "Bene Ha Elohim" (Sons of God) and their male descendants of whom this verse was specifically written existed prior to the "Great Deluge" of Genesis 6, which occurred literally thousands of years before King David was even born. Addtionally, The Jews were most instrumental in slaughtering all those who were at all affiliated by blood with these very same surviving descendants of the "Sons of God" (Fallen Angels, to use the common and false vilification). In Old Testament times, these fallen-angel descendants were known by a number of names, perhaps most prolifically: The Rephaim. The were also called the Emmim and the Anukim, to name a couple other names. It was the Armies of Israel who supposedly killed what they thought was that last male descendant of the Fallen Angels known as King Og of Bashan. Of course... as with the belief on prior occasions that they had all been killed in the "Flood" and on aother occasions, they were quite wrong.

The point is .... King David and his armies were those who slaughtered the angelic male descendants and most certainly no such descendant would EVER have been a part of their enemies' armies.


- Upir'



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malakh
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18:48:14 Jan 12 2011
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"The Bible is a compilation of many individual "books" written by
different authors at different times in history. The Old Testament
concerns events prior to the birth of Christ. The New Testament tells
the story of Christ and the teachings of his disciples. In some versions
of the Old Testament (Jewish Tanakh, Biblia Hebraica, etc.) the word
"lilith" appears in the Book of Isaiah 34:14, said to have been written
during or just after the Babylonian Captivity @597 BCE. Translated, it
reads something like:

"Wild beasts shall meet with hyenas,
the satyr shall cry to his fellow;
there shall [the lilith] alight,
and find for herself a resting place."

When this passage was translated for the Greek Septuagint in the 3rd
century BCE, "lilith" became "onokentauroi" [ass centaur]. When Jerome
translated it in the 4th century CE for the Latin Vulgate, he changed
it to "lamia". The King James version of the English bible, published
in the early 1600s, substituted "night hag." Modern translations may be
found using everything from "lilith" to "night creatures" to "screech
owl".

The oldest known copy of the Book of Isaiah is the Qumran Isaiah scroll,
found in the Dead Sea caves in the 1940s. It has been dated to the 1st
or 2nd century BCE. The text, handwritten on a 26cm by 7m leather scroll,
is in Hebrew. The word in 34:14 is "lilith." So, as of now, it appears
that "lilith" is indeed the original word. However, there are still many
questions surrounding this passage, not the least of which is: To whom
(or what) does "lilith" refer? Is it Lilith the Demoness herself, one of
a group of succubi known as the lilim, or is it merely a word for an
owl common to Mesopotamia?"

in : http://stason.org



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malakh
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19:19:12 Jan 12 2011
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So, accordingly to Isiah (one of the most important prophets of the bible) there was "creatures of the night" at that time... Lilith = Creatures of the night (not the demoness)

Genesis 4:14:15 "Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, {that} every one that findeth me shall slay me.
And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him."

Genesis 5:25 "And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died."

and accordingly to the bible, men was able to live much much more than 100 years... so, it is not that starnge believing in such fantastic creatures... besides a Cherubim is an a extraordinary fantastic creature, not to mention the other classes of angels... Cherubims have four heads and six wings... now, is that fantastic or what? and for the ones who don't know, Lucifer, Satan or whatever you wanna call him was a Cherubim, so, stop painting him with horns and red tails... so true at all...

and King David actually killed a giant in his time (3 meters long) and dinosaurs were mentioned too... just not by that name that is recent... the one who found them named them 100 years ago...

take a look at Job 40:15-24 "Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. {behemoth: probably an extinct animal of some kind}
Lo now, his strength {is} in his loins, and his force {is} in the navel of his belly.
He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. {He...: or, He setteth up}
His bones {are as} strong pieces of brass; his bones {are} like bars of iron...." I did not past the whole text...

and behold the description of Leviathan in Job 41

"Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord {which} thou lettest down? {leviathan: probably an extinct animal of some kind} {which...: Heb. which thou drownest?}"

is he not a fantastical creature as well? or does not the bible mention unicorns also?

Job 39:9 "Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?"

of course, assuming that the bible has the final word in such matter, the name vampire does not appear in the bible because they were called by a different name just like the dinosaurs... the thing is, if we can actually speak to demons... why on earth wouldn't the bible be the final world in supernatural beings?:P






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ImperfectBeing
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23:13:03 Jan 12 2011
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I thought those lasts posts were really interesting , particularly the above section relating the lamia to the night hag . I've had frequent visits from various entities , you could call them hags , mara , mullo , nightmares or incubui / sucubi the lables not important .I think that's the trouble with trying to categorise any supernatural entity they can appear how they want , they are not subject to a fixed physical forms like we are . That might be the reason that so many visual descriptions exist that essentially describe the same thing . In my experience each entity is as different as you from me , some are sexual creatures that want after lust some are violent terrorisers that want after fear , however they effect it they are after a release of your subtle energies/life force to feed from , that for me makes them vampires .



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UpirLikhyj
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02:05:01 Jan 13 2011
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As your own post states, we do not know what the word "lilith (lilm) might have meant in Isaiah's time. Additionally, as you stated in the first of these two latest posts and them seemed not to have recaleld in the second, the translation of lilith as "night creatures is a modern reinvention; there is no evidence that this was what Isaiah meant.

Similar speculations exist regarding such words as "behemoth" and even "unicorn." As you also correctly state, the King James Version sometimes takes unwarranted and at times near-ridiculous license in quite imaginatively re-translating terms. One of the greatetst of these was in re-translating "Lucifer" to mean Satan when, in fact, Isaiah was not at all referencing some supernatural Bad Guy but was, in fact, pejoratively referring to an entirely mortal Persian king who was considered especially arrogant.

Unlike these whimsically retranslated terms for which there exists no definitive translation, the passage in Genesis 6:1-4 was so clearly and unambiguously translated that even today, millennia later, the meaning of the original term remains: The "Bene Ha Elohim" (Sons of God) descended, married Human women and sired wonderfully gifted children by them who were the Heroes of ancient times, the "mighty men of old, men of renown."

And then... strangely... we find that centuries later the Bible does a peculiar and inexplicable "about face" in its writings regarding these "Hero" descendants and, instead, suddenly portrays them as evil, as bloodthirsty and cannabiliistc.

And yet... there is not a SINGLE SOLITARY account in the Bible that actually recounts a single story of any of these "mighty" and "renowned" angelic descendants ever once actually doing the terrible things they are accused of. All we have are sudden demonizations against them... without a single shred of evidence.

Rather... like vampires.

In the Russian Primary Chronicle written in the 9th and 10th Centuries CE, it states that the Slavic people used to worship "Upirim" ("Vampires") and... as my profile provides... the 11th Century Christian Father "Upir" was actually calling himself a vampire. And yet... no one found anything "evil" or bad about such a name!

Just as with the "Sons of God".... so also Vampires were originally considered so wonderful, so praiseworthy, that they were revered and even worshiped... and at least one early Christian priest called himself by that very appellation: Vampire. Yet... strangely and without explanation or even any historical event or events that triggered it.... suddenly vampires... like their ancestors in Biblical times... are targeted for the same vicious lies and demonizations as being bloodthirsty demons.

Ironically... those who so depicted them were, as history DOES show, the truly bloodthirsty ones.


- Upir'



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malakh
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03:14:00 Jan 13 2011
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Yes indeed and I totally agree with you Upir', but the question here is not if they (supernatural vampires, and by supernatural I mean those with unexplainable 'by science' powers) are demons or if they are really mentioned in the Bible... actually, and here I must include the "if" they really exist (I know they do, but that's another story) then without a doubt the Bible does mention them... Those who know the Bible well knows that there are things in the bible that can not be understood if one are not born again... why this? The bible explains it all in the New Testament saying that when we born again the Holy Spirit of God starts to live within us and shows us the hidden secrets of the bible... the things that are foggy to the rest of the world... and to really understand the bible one must born again and be baptized by the Holy Ghost... and that is unquestionable. And one can study the bible for centuries and still not understand it, because he has not been baptized by that fire of God... Now, we know very well (not offending anyone's religion) that the Catholic church killed many many innocents, and for those who do not know, the verse in Revelations about the blood of the saints:

Revelations 17:6 "And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration."

...refers to the Catholic church... I don't mean to offend anyone, it was not me who wrote that, but the bible... with a little study of the 17 chapter of Revelations and you get there...

so, that humans are much bloodthirsty then demons and or vampires, that is not something new... everyone knows that, even angels and demons...

The question is, are those mythical creatures true? and if they are, are they still among us?

I know they are... but I wanna hear your thoughts and your interpretation about such controversial theme...

How can one prove that they exist or not, if the tools to such thing (tools to prove it) were not given to us?

They are a spiritual matter with spiritual powers and one can not prove the existence of the spiritual world... it is sealed for humans... our eyes were closed since Adam for such things...



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RIFF
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15:54:54 Jan 13 2011
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i think we let hollywood influence ower thinking,there is only one supernatural being,, im a vampire ,i go to work ,pay bills like to golf but i enjoy drinking blood , thats what makes me a vampire not turning into a bat ,lets be logical



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malakh
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16:09:54 Jan 13 2011
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there you have it... logical is not the key to find our selfs or what ever or whom ever we are talking here in VR...

I think you let your self be influenced by Hollywood crap... or else you would't be calling your self a vampire nor drinking blood... To each creature like the Bible says, blood is life, but for the ones who drink others blood, its DEATH... don't believe me? ask any doctor and you'll see... be glad for not having a disease yet...

and hollywood has nothing to do with vampires... the Bible was starting to be written 3500 years ago and is full of fantastic creatures, so don't give the credits to a bunch a corrupt people who stole others creativities, ideas, imagination or whatever you wanna call it...



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dabbler
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16:43:06 Jan 13 2011
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So Malak,

Is it your opinion that supernatural vampires exist?



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malakh
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16:46:28 Jan 13 2011
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Yes indeed! and really well hidden by the way :P

but it is not an opinion, its something I came across 15 years ago here in my country... Portugal



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UpirLikhyj
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Well stated, Malakh.

It is incredibly ironic to see so many here blaming others of being influenced by Hollywood portrayals of vampires while they, themselves, rely solely upon such. Anyone... I mean anyone... can drink blood. There is nothing special or unique about the ability to... swallow. Of course, what all who pretend to being vampires always overlook is that all such fictional "vampires" ONLY drink blood. Now... if any of you self-described "vampires" can do that, I'm sure we ... as well as the medical community... would love test this out be placing you in a locked room for a month and passing into you as much blood packets as you want and then seeing how long you last!

And yet despite these glaring facts, we continue to see so many here define themselves as vampires simply for drinking a bit of blood every now and then. Oh... that and perhaps claiming sensitivity to sunlight (another Hollywood invention) or crucifixes (again... pure Hollywood and fiction), etc.

I do find it humorous, however, that none of these self-stylized "vampires" ever provide any evidence that they are actually reanimated corpses. After all, all "vampires" who are portrayed as blood drinkers by Hollywood and in fiction ALL had to first actually die. Somehow this little bitty detail is conveniently forgotten. ;)

- Upir'



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dabbler
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17:33:17 Jan 13 2011
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So malak,

You are a believer that said vampires are able to do super natural things?



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UpirLikhyj
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As for "supernatural" vampires existing... it would depend, in my view, on your definition of "supernatural."

Yes... those later vilified in Cental and Eastern Europe and Russia as "vampires" are found in the Bible. However, they are not found as fantastical creatures concocted as either metaphors, such as those found in Revelations, Ezekiel and Daniel, or as purely fictional devices intended to impress their constituents (again, Ezekiel and Daniel)... or as the result of poor modern translations or simply unknown words whose definitions are still uncertain (e.g., Isaiah, Proverbs).

Anyone believeing that vampires follow the characteristics of Hollywood and modern fictions (i.e., from the 18th Century on), as not bothered to truly investigate the original accounts from Eastern and Central Europe or Russia, strip them of their liekwise fantastical portrayals of "vampires" as able to shapeshift into pumpkins or even common household furniture such as a table or chair, and examine what such Vampires actually did... which had nothing to do with blood drinking.

When thus stripped of all such superstitious interpretation and re-examine based solely on what the vampire supposedly did... when distilled down to their least common denominator... Vampires emerge as beings who engage in one singular activity with women that accounts for every aspect of the Vampire still found in fictions today that bespeak their allure, their romantic mystery and the fascination women have always had for them as well as the murderous intent men have always had for them, as well.

And as late as the 1950s, newspapers in Eastern and Central Europe still contained actual accounts of men attempting to pretend to be vampires by using this same singular and accurate historical vampiric characteristic that, when they could not actually perform as a true vampire could, caused the women to know they were NOT vampires and ultimately led to their being caught and revealed as frauds. And no, none of this had anything to do with blood drinking. ;)

While my profile explains it all from early Biblical times on... I'll give a bit of a hint here: these men pretending to be vampires as reported in newspapers in Eastern and Central Europe as late as the 1950s had sexually seduced women because in these homelands of the actual Slavic Vampire, it is well known that what truly defines the vampire of history is his "supernatural" sexual and emotional capacity that match that of women and, thus, provide women with love unlike that possible by ordinary men. And as these men, not being vampires, were incapable of providing such to their "victims," the gig was up immediately and they were subsequently revealed as frauds and caught.

Again... if you truly seek the truth regarding the Vampire of history, you DON'T begin by using the definitions for such as found in fiction and Hollywood. Instead, you must go to the source of where the term "Vampire" was actually first coined and then carefully study what that term meant at the time it was created! While such would seem a no brainer, yet very few actually get it. Far fewer actually devote the time to researching the history.


- Upir'




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dabbler
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17:47:43 Jan 13 2011
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So maybe extraordinary, instead of Supernatural?



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UpirLikhyj
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Yes indeed... to an extent. When examined etymologically, both "supernatural" and "extraordinary" are founded upon the same general meanings. "Extra" and "Super" are etymologically synonymous. So also are the words "ordinary" and "normal." ;)

While they are indeed different by modern definitions... yet both terms share common roots.



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malakh
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18:30:22 Jan 13 2011
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Claps out loud and a big thumbs up for your reply Upir... as always :)

dabbler, actually in this matter both words are the same extraordinary is above ordinary and supernatural is the same above what is natural... for us of course!

now, as well stated by Upir i agree with all that... but i wanna add a little bit more, for now without adding any source 'cause i don't have the time right now to give that... neither way, i want to add a few things in what a supernatural vampire can do or be...

If one studies the bible and all ancient books of Egypt and all that will see that magic and above the natural powers were quite common in those times... speaking with the dead... the arts of magic (real magic, not illusions)... and other things... in those days sorcerers were able to make outstanding things, such as turn water into blood or transform objects into something else for example... no, this cannot be prove by science because as i said before, this are occult arts... they are hidden and are not proven scientifically... in the higher levels of satanism and witchcraft (not bands adoration or Satan's church... lol) they all know what a witch can really do... imagina a vampire! Yes, one can became a vampire without dying... for the record, a vampire is one who gives himself for the service of Satan's work (Satan being the enemy of mans) and therefore he receives supernatural powers, provided by 7 powerful demons that from day on started living inside that 'vampire', so, those vampires are just a servant, but know that they do have their own will of course... but they also have to do lots of things to maintain their powers... one of those things is drinking blood of course... if you don't know, drinking blood is against the will of God, why do you think that all those macabre rituals are all based in what pleases God and what not?

They can move way much faster than us... no, they cannot fly, but perhaps they can jump allot higher than us because of their strength that is incredibly increased by the 7 demons possession... and lots of other extraordinary abilities that i will keep it for later...

what? you never heard about the incredible strength increase by demons possession? then i invite you to came here to Portugal and see it for your self... for example; an old woman having an attack and 4 or 5 or even more adult mans trying to hold her and not being capable of... yes... quite strange isn't it?







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malakh
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18:42:18 Jan 13 2011
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and by the way I want to apologize for any bad English, since it is not my native language... I always try my best to make myself understood...

//_^



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UpirLikhyj
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18:42:41 Jan 13 2011
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Oh... I don't know. Have you never seen a mountain of police officers unable to restrain a guy doped up on PCP or meth? No demon possession there!

Hell... for that matter, ever tried to take a cookie away from a determined 3 year-old? ;)



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malakh
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18:47:00 Jan 13 2011
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now... really laughing out loud... HAHAHA!!!

yes indeed... but that is just way too much adrenaline in their bodies... but it is scientifically impossible for an old woman with no muscles being capable of beat up 4 or more grown adult mans... without external forces helping her of course... hehehe

but nice one... lol :D



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Oceanne
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23:01:22 Jan 13 2011
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I do believe there might indeed be Vampires,but in no way feel there is any such thing as a "supernatural or in human vampire.I am thinking that our perspective and idea of what the vampire is got real screwed up and blown up over the centuries.



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Oceanne
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23:07:35 Jan 13 2011
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And by the same token,why do these beings always HAVE to be supernatural? dragoons simply might have been dinosaurs and people back then thought they were some other worldy beings.Perfect example? People of the past finding Mammoth skulls and believed them to be Cyclops.



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FallenStar
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05:21:14 Jan 14 2011
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Agreed they may just be natural Adrenalin extras in the brain.
A heart attack is a poor example.
I once tended an old woman who had broken her own spine in the death throws of a violent heart attack.

Now there are credible records of strange strenght, people lifting cars after accidents or ripping off doors.
I heard of a 10 year old boy that lifted an enemy by the throat into the air. Ran down the fastest boy in the School and bit him then broke the rib of a kid two years his senior and 6 inches taller. This is strange but not the same as altering the state of matter or conjouring.



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Jamie
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08:55:57 Jan 15 2011
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Energy vamp, yes?



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malakh
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09:38:19 Jan 15 2011
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AlieNation I was not talking about heart attacks hahaha lol... you made laugh on there...

no, i was talking about epileptic seizures... and yes, it possible to change the structure of matter and other things...I've seen it and that is not something so extraordinary like many thinks... with a few books and some practice among other things, anyone can do it... don't ask me which books though... dangerous things may come from such...

like i said before, it is scientifically impossible for an old woman with no muscles to overcome 4 or more adult mans... not in a million years... unless she has an external help from someone or something...



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malakh
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09:40:35 Jan 15 2011
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sorry Jamie i did not understand your question... lol

xD



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malakh
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09:54:12 Jan 15 2011
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And for the record, there are similar passages like this one in other ancient and recent books, so...

Mark 5:1-9 "And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
Who had {his} dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any {man} tame him.
And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, {thou} Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
For he said unto him, Come out of the man, {thou} unclean spirit.
And he asked him, What {is} thy name? And he answered, saying, My name {is} Legion: for we are many."

see? demoniac possessions... just like my grandmother... talking with the dead and sometimes with abnormal strength and by the way she know Napoleon Bonaparte hahaha

and yes, she is still alive... :D








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DemonVampire
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21:31:26 Jan 15 2011
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I have been saying everything you just said for years...



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UpirLikhyj
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22:56:44 Jan 15 2011
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The Bible, like any other book of religious history, claims many miracles and other happenings intended to strengthen faith and present the religion in question as the one true pathway. As a result, like all other such books, the Bible glorifies the actions and miracles of their heroes while largly denigrating and dismissing as false those of other religions. Given the faith-promoting purpose of such texts, it would seem prudent to regard with a healthy dose of skepticism the fantastical claims found in each.

With respect to the account in Mark 5 that you quoted, there seems to be a couple problems with the account.

First off, the great strength claimed to have been manifest in this man heralds back to the stories of Samson who was supposedly empowered thus by God rather than by spirits of evil possession. I point this out only to make note that one man's "godly" power is considered by another as that of "demons." Don't forget that the Jews often accused Jesus, also, of "having a devil." ;)

Secondly, if this man were truly possessed not only by one demon but several... why would they cause the man to then go up to Jesus and worship him? And, more confusing still, as prior to this the man seemed not the least affected, much less "tormented," by Jesus' existence who had never been near him before, why.... upon seeing him "afar off" and being apparently troubled by Jesus due to such close proximity ... would the man then have gotten CLOSER to Jesus, which would have only tormented him further?!

If truly tormented by Jesus passing by, wouldn't he have run the other way to be rid of that "torment"?

Again... as with most "miraculous" tales, this account does not bear up well under further scrutiny.


- Upir'



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malakh
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23:37:51 Jan 15 2011
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My dear friend Upir glad to hear from you! :)

That passage of Mark in particular is a great passage indeed and turns out to be very important in so many aspects that i do not intent to throw them all in here (VR)
for example, that possessed man was not in control of his body at all... such as many other persons i have seen having strange attacks, afterwards they don't remember a thing... plain as that... thereof, he was being totally controlled by the Legion of demons... know why those demons ran towards Jesus to worship him?

Here we must know what those demons were... they were angels who lived with God for eternities that our minds cannot even conceive and they knew Jesus, because Jesus was an angel too,... not with that name of course... but those fallen angels knew Jesus very well from when Jesus was an angel as well... and truthfully they knew Hes powers and what He could do to them, so they got scared and worship Jesus because they did not wont to be imprisoned in the abyss till Judgement Day... and they knew that Jesus would be merciful with them if they act as they always did before they were fallen angels... and i do believe that many of them were repented of what they did... changing sides!


but there is many more to that passage... no need to throw it here ;)



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malakh
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23:43:42 Jan 15 2011
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sorry i forgot about the possessed man... about him, I'm pretty sure that when he was saved from that cast of demons that he felt free indeed and felt that he was cured from that plague and wanted to follow Jesus and worship him for being liberated... i bet we all would made the same thing... right?! :)



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UpirLikhyj
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01:33:59 Jan 16 2011
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Nice to hear back from you, as well.

As I see it, the problem with your conclusion that he worshipped Jesus after being "freed" is, of course, that the scriptural account has him worshipping Jesus before being freed and, in fact, actually worshipping him first and then contradictorily accusing Jesus for supposedly "tormenting" him.

Why would a possessed man being controlled by demons approach Jesus in tthe first place given that he was supposedly "tormenting" them? And then, why would demons worship Jesus, at all? And if they are worshipping him, what makes sense about them then accusing Jesus of "tormenting" them and tellin him to leave when it was THEY who came to him "from afar" instead of simply walking away?

Again... doesn't make much sense, now does it?



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malakh
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02:11:33 Jan 16 2011
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Well i'm sorry if i did not make myself clear... actually trying to explain such passage from the bible is a bit hard for me... because my english is not that good yet...

but i'll try my best either way...

here is the passage again:

Mark 5:5-9 "And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, {thou} Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
For he said unto him, Come out of the man, {thou} unclean spirit.
And he asked him, What {is} thy name? And he answered, saying, My name {is} Legion: for we are many."

so, it was not the man who worshiped nor spoke to Jesus but the demons... look at verse 8 "For he (JESUS) said unto him, Come out of the man, {thou} unclean spirit." see?

Jesus was already talking to the unclean spirit and not to the man... that unclean spirit actually was a legion of demons and they were afraid of Jesus because they knew He is the son of God... and they knew that if Jesus wanted, He could send them to the abyss for a long time to come...

that is why they were saying to Jesus not to torment them, when they say "...that thou torment me not." it was the unclean spirit speaking and not the man... again see verse 8... Jesus was talking to the spirit, not to the man...

did you understand it?




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malakh
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02:25:26 Jan 16 2011
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I know it sounds strange or fictional but the whole Bible is a spiritual guide to Eternal Life, and or you believe or not.... actually from that passage one can understand that they had a conversation and not just those words stated in Mark... and Jesus was having a spiritual conversation with the unclean spirit... that is why its hard to understand... actually one must know the whole Bible to understand all the meaning of a passage like that... not that you will understand it for knowing or reading for example Psalms, but there is always something to explain in the other 'books' of the bible... did you understand? for example, in the book of Ezekiel you can understand how the angels act in front of God or Jesus... or in Revelations for example you will know the fate of those demons... that is why they worshiped Him and that is why they said not to torment them... you have to read the whole Bible to know what the meant...

I hope i could be of any help now :)



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FallenStar
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05:01:30 Jan 16 2011
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Malack dear friend, you are losing me here .
The Bible contains elements that appear to believe and quote, others you appear to ignore or skate over.
Yet being a fan you still like Mark Zuckerberg, who has broken some of the ten, coverting, theft not to mention deception and greed?
The best way to pervert the truth is to ignore the evidence that is inconvenient. Hence the C.P.I.Act 1996 to disclose "incovenient truths".
That aside I think Legion is a misquote, it was actually Lesion. An ancient term along with disease-Dis-Ease...
Jesus was alway gtoing on about sick people with Lsions, the mad and bad.
They would touch him and be cured but he explained they had cured themselves? Was he suggesting some people had the thought power to cause lesions/ or cure them?



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UpirLikhyj
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08:43:13 Jan 16 2011
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Malakh,

Yes... I understood. I don't think you understand, however.

But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him

Thus it was the man... as well as perhaps the demons inside the man... who ran over and worshipped Jesus even before Jesus had done a thing to him. Yet after this they "adjure" Jesus to stop tormenting him/them when Jesus hadn't done a thing to the man and it was the man who had run up to Jesus from "afar off"!

Again... makes no sense at all.

I hope now that you understand.


As for what you said, AN, the original word is "Legion," not "lesion." This is made crystal clear by the "demons" themselves who, after calling themselves by that name, added the further explanation: "...because we are many." If the word were "lesion" (which is the singular form, not the plural), it would not have made any sense to then say" "...lesion, because we are many."


- Upir'



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malakh
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18:23:16 Jan 16 2011
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Well Upir... first you must know what Jesus can do and what He cannot do... Jesus does not need to be near someone to torment or to cure... and He sure does not need to be near demons to speak or torment them... because Jesus can do all that from afar...

besides, despite it was the man who came running towards Jesus, the verse says clearly that that man was possessed... so it was the unclean spirit who controlled the body of that man and not the man himself...

probably the angels at the service of Jesus were already tormenting those demons and that is why they said that... and they worship Him either way because they knew that Jesus would have mercy on them... why were the angels already tormenting the demons? because Jesus knew about that man already,,, knew he was in pain and Jesus does not need to be near him to cure him or anything else...

look at this passage of John 1:48-51 :

"Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man."

Jesus already knew Nathanael because he was praying and Jesus was not limited by place or time... after all He's the Son of God...



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UpirLikhyj
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I appreciate that you have such strongly held beliefs. And I am not going to question those beliefs. What I have questioned is what seems illogical in the situation at hand.

If Jesus could torment from afar, why hadn't this "tormented" man never once sought Jesus out before? If this man, who as the account implies, had been possessed for years and who, as you believe, had been tormented by Jesus no matter where Jesus was... why had he never traveled to Jesus to be relieved of his "torment" before then? Why did it never occur to the man until Jesus just happened to be passing by if this man had truly been "tormented" by Jesus for as long as Jesus had been on the Earth?

The fact that this man had never before gone to Jesus during all his supposed years of "torment" is what proves that he was not in torment until Jesus was close to him. And, thus, if close to him caused the torment... the man could have simply ran away to be relieved of that torment.

One thing is for sure, however, the only way Jesus could have relieved the "torment" is by casting out the demons... which would have been the opposite of what those demons wanted. Obviously, they were possessing the man because they enjoyed doing that. They could have left anytime they wanted. That's why it took Jesus to cast them out of where they WANTED to be. So... we are back to the same problem: If the demons wanted to remain in the man, why would they voluntarily go to Jesus so that he could ... cast them out?!

Demons would NOT worship Jesus given that they are in complete rebellion against God. That's what we are told demons and the Devil and all that... do! If they stopped rebelling and fighting God, they would cease to be demons! Thus... demons would NOT worship God or Jesus.

And most certainly demons would NOT wanted to be cast out and so most certainly would not have run up to Jesus so that he would cast them out.


I know you believe strongly in what the Bible says, which is your right, of course. However, simply declaring your beliefs does not answer these glaring contradictions in this account (and I can find equal contradictions in so many of these "faith-promoting" Biblical "miracles"). What I am asking you to do is to give logical consideration to my questions and provide responses that mirror actual reasoning here. If such cannot be done, then that's fine. But simply continuing to declare how powerful and wonderful and "all-that-and-a-bag-of-chips" you think Jesus is does not answer the inherent difficulties with this Biblical account I have pointed out.


- Upir'



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malakh
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19:30:33 Jan 16 2011
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hahaha!!! my dear fellow Upir you maid me laugh again :D

Like i said before, you must know all the bible to understand passages like that one... in that particularly passage you have to completely ignore that the man himself is of any control... he is not.

the man isn't controlling anything, nor thoughts, nor words, nothing and you have to keep that in mind to understand that... so, we are only talking here about the demons and about Jesu... but first let me just clarify that that man was never tormented by Jesus at all... all the conversation was between Jesus and the unclean spirit called Legion... ok?

with that in mind, when the man (unclean spirit talking trough the man) told Jesus in verse 7 not to torment him, they supposedly were already being punished for tormenting that man... the demons were tormenting the man not Jesus... alright? actually the man only spoke in verse 18, nothing more... all other talking was the demons talking not the man... do you understand this?

and when you say that demons don't worship God or Jesus you are wrong... again you have to know all the bible to understand why they worshiped Jesus

even if the bible is not true, to understand the whole story one must read everything... and since the bible is not a book, but a compilation of 66 books and letters, it is a bit more complicated than that... actually the bible must be studied very hard to understand it completely and not only that... one must be baptized by the Holy Ghost to have a perfect comprehension of its meaning.

In various parts of the bible we see demons prostrating them selfs before God and Jesus...

I have to search for it... but you have a passage in Job to understand that no demon or satan himself can do anything without God's approval..

Job 1:6-7 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. {Satan: Heb. the adversary} {among: Heb. in the midst of}
And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

And that is why God told that the good and the evil is created by Him... i bet you weren't expecting that right?

see... Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these {things}."

Satan never created anything... he's just a servant and a bad one... before Satan or hes demons can do anything they first must ask God for permission... hahaha

I know it sounds weird, but that is the truth... being the bible real or not...





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malakh
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19:41:41 Jan 16 2011
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I hope you have understand it now...

that man was tormented by those demons with the permission of God (but you have to know all the bible to know this things) and Jesus knew that already very well...

and those demons were afraid of Jesus and they are not enemies of God like the masses paint them... they are fallen angels... actually they are quite beautiful indeed and not some devious monsters and we paint them in our minds... they still have to worship Jesus whether they wanted or not... because Jesus have the power to send them to the abyss... and they don't want that...



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BelladonnaBCera
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00:14:31 Jan 17 2011
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Actually, demons are not all evil, people seem to forget that they are manely tormented souls, after so many years of torture, one must beg and plead to be freed from such treatment, but they cannot be for that is a way to be punished for their treachary. Fallen angels ha that's a different story, I do not blame all of them, yes they fall for consorting with evil beings, yet others fall because of doubt. How can they stay endowed to a god they themselves as angels have never seen? Taking orders only from archangels and others of high power. (not all their fault I presume.)

Lilith was Adam's first wife. (little know this) She got tired of not having a say in matters, thus she left him. She was cast out and cursed for her unfaithfulness. That is when god created Eve out of Adam's rib, so that she was forever bound to him and could not leave him as Lilith did.



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BelladonnaBCera
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As for Vampires, well of course they exist. I suppose humans have never realized how much they truely depend upon us. They need us in life to prove there is some mystery left in the world, that science does not hold the answer to evey thing. They need us as a challenge to face their fears, yet to save them from their own denial of the truth that stars them in the face. Obviously otherwise, they would have gotten rid of the idea we even exist, erasing it from history like a messed up line in a drawing.



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UpirLikhyj
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03:25:42 Jan 17 2011
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malakh, it would help discussion if you would not assume I don't understand the Bible and haven't studied it quite extensively, and then answer questions with little more than calling me Biblically ignorant.

I fully understood that the demons are controlling the man; I stated that in my previous entry, as well. Thus, again, the demons are the ones complaining that Jesus is tormenting them. If Jesus is tormenting them, why would they cause the man to go to him, worship him (something demons would never do... as no demon anywhere in the Bible has EVER worshipped God, which if you understood the Bible, you would know this), and thus cause Jesus to cast them all out. Such actions on their part caused them to lose what they had gained: possession of the man's body. This is exactly the opposite of what they wanted... so it makes no sense that they would have gone to Jesus instead of running away from him.

I ask this question one last time and still await an actual answer.

And as for demons being "Fallen Angels," this is absolutely untrue.

The "Fallen Angels" were the "Bene Ha Elohim" (which means, "Sons of God"... thus obviously NOT demons) who came to Earth, married women and had children by them. These children, being descended directly from God, Himself, are called by the Bible the "mighty men of old, men of renown" and not the progeny of demons. Additionally, as demons don't have bodies of their own, they could not have descended from heaven, married women and sired children with them.


- Upir'



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Exsavioure
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03:30:27 Jan 17 2011
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Any thing is possible if others believe it's real... so yes I think so



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malakh
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04:12:39 Jan 17 2011
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Upir in no way i was calling you biblically ignorant... i just thought that you didn't know the whole bible...

so i'm sorry if by any means i led my replies in a misunderstanding... no harm intended at all...

as i said before, i have to think in my answers in english... which in this kind of discussions is no that easy for me... please have patience with me... i manage to have normal conversations and this kind of discussions requires a little bit more... so it is not easy for me to explain the way i wished to explain if it was in portuguese... since i lack many words to explain it right in english... sorry about that :S

now, about the fallen angels being demons or not... i will have to search in the bible for the right verses and when i find them i'll post it here to you...

about the demons running towards Jesus and not running away when they already knew that Jesus would cast them out is because, they didn't knew that Jesus would appear in that town or village, and from the time they saw Jesus there was no turning back for them, because they knew from that moment they saw him that they would be casted away... and that is why they did not run away but tried begging for Jesus mercy...

remember in all times that in the spiritual world the angels of God were always with Jesus serving Him, and demons could see those angels... so they knew from that point forward they had no chances against Jesus or the angels serving Him... it would be useless to run away...



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malakh
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04:24:19 Jan 17 2011
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Sorry for not answering myself but its easier for me about the subject of fallen angels being demons or not just to copy and past here... a simple answer would be that God never created demons, and Satan cannot create life out of nothing... so, even if one could think that demons are the sons between those fallen angels and womans that would go against other parts of the bible where it says that once anyone dies his/her soul goes directly to heaven or to hell, hell here being the prisons until the judgement day, and not the lake of fire...

from www.gotquestions.org

"When exactly God created angels is open for debate, but what is known for sure is that God created everything good because God, in His holiness, cannot create something sinful. So when Satan, who was once the angel Lucifer, rebelled against God and fell from heaven (Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28), one third of the angelic host joined his insurrection (Revelation 12:3-4,9). There is no doubt these fallen angels are now known as the demons.

We know that hell was prepared for the devil and his angels, according to Matthew 25:41: “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.’” Jesus, by using the possessive word his makes it clear that these angels belong to Satan. Revelation 12:7-9 describes an end-times angelic battle between Michael and "his angels" and the devil and "his angels." From these and similar verses, it is clear that demons and fallen angels are synonymous.

Some reject the idea that the demons are the fallen angels due to the fact that Jude verse 6 declares the angels who sinned to be "bound with everlasting chains." However, it is clear that not all of the angels who sinned are "bound," as Satan is still free (1 Peter 5:8). Why would God imprison the rest of the fallen angels, but allow the leader of the rebellion to remain free? It seems that Jude verse 6 is referring to God confining the fallen angels who rebelled in an additional way, likely the "sons of God" incident in Genesis chapter 6.

The most common alternate explanation for the origin of the demons is that when the Nephilim of Genesis 6 were destroyed in the Flood, their disembodied souls became the demons. While the Bible does not specifically say what happened to the souls of the Nephilim when they were killed, it is unlikely that God would destroy the Nephilim in the Flood only to allow their souls to cause even greater evil as the demons. The most biblically consistent explanation for the origin of the demons is that they are the fallen angels, the angels who rebelled against God with Satan."



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supersteve
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13:15:21 Jan 17 2011
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The scientific community learn of more than 5000 new species a year so what makes you think vampires dont exist? no museum exhibit? no carcus? no wikipedia?



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Oceanne
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17:26:27 Jan 17 2011
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For me,to answer this latest question..theres no physics or biology to back it up,you are correct.Not even the notiion of it. I am under the belief that everything...EVERYTHING has to follow some law of physics.And in my book,that allows for alot.Including telepathy,phsicic abilities and other things of that nature.Not super natural vampires.
JMHO



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ArthurVolts
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17:38:17 Jan 17 2011
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^^^^^

Belief is not a pre-requisite of truth.

Your reality may be the surface of a layered cake of deception created to confuse, misinform and dull the senses.

Time and time again the "physics" and physicality of this world are proved wrong.
Science continually proves itself wrong and goes"

"opps sorry man, our bad, THIS is now it really is."

Open your heart to open your mind and you'll discover a world beyond your imagination.

Actually, it wont be long now until that veil is lifted without your consent so you might as well start getting used to the idea now, it'll save yourself a shocking time in the near future.



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Oceanne
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17:47:40 Jan 17 2011
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Sorry,save the "open heart and mind" bullshit for someone else ok? I am as open as they come but even I draw the line at bullshit.
You show me a super natural vampire and I will kiss your feet.Untill then? This girl aint buying into the whole supernatural vampire smeal..



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Oceanne
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Dont get me wrong.I agree there are different realities and dimensions.But everyone of us dwell in the realm of physical and someof us recognise and delve into our spiritual sides.But make no mistake,we as beings are physical as long as we are in these bodies..Therefore I seriously doubt that any are going to dwell in a reality so different and against all physical limits to the point where they are one,immortal,and two,can do things that are so far and beyond THIS reality of earth,that they would exist as supernatural beings.Im sorry,but again...show me,and I will believe .
I have seen for myself many,many things,so I know some things are in play here..but that isnt one of them.
Again,jmho.Nothing agaisnt anyone who might buy into it .



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ArthurVolts
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18:20:09 Jan 17 2011
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Sometimes such things are saved for the non-sketptics and those of faith(not a religious faith.), because its known that even if such knowledge was parted to you, you would still always be a skeptic when it comes to other such knowledge that you may not be ready for.
ie. A constant danger because you haven't elevated your vibration.


Due to your reaction about having an open heart and mind, its obvious that it isn't as part of the "stream" as you'd like to believe. (which is natural. Its all part of the process.)

You need to understand that people who "know" things do not feel the need to "prove" anything to anyone.

There can be discussions and debates, heated or not, but in the end, no one is trying to "make" you believe anything.

You are allowed to live in whichever box you choose, but when you are ready to crack the hinges, someone will be there with an extended hand.

Thats just how it is.


Even when the world was KNOWN to be flat. 110% sure of such a thing, it was always round.



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Oceanne
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18:22:54 Jan 17 2011
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I would like to ask a question here if I might.
This mostly directed at those who know the bible.

Is it not said that GOD is the only one who can breathe live into something once it is dead?

And if we are to believe that Hollywood style Vamps are real,wouldnt they need to be re animated corpses? And if not,what stops them from decomposing?As EVERYTHING dead does?



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ArthurVolts
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18:41:08 Jan 17 2011
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Obviously hollywood vamps are but a deceptive layer beyond many others to again, confuse and misdirect.

Although adapted by white wolfs fiction, Cain was the first Immortal. Cursed by god to wander the earth.

There are many others mention or hinted at in the texts of our past.

Plato even had an interaction with one, claiming to be a few thousand years old.

There are energies in this world and in certain people of this world that are beyond basic comprehension and understanding, because the TRUE acceptance of such knowledge strips away belief and replaces it with truth.

Once truth is learned it is impossible to believe and with that, the purpose of being human is gone. You cease being able to go back to the way your life used to be.

Its a pretty intense "coming to terms". Almost killed me a few times over.


I don't have all the answers, but a basic part of the foundation of learning is the fact that others know more than you/I do and its sort of a wet noodle argument to say "prove me, show it to me and I'll believe", because with that head state you'll be in limbo forever.



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malakh
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18:56:12 Jan 17 2011
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Oceanne first things first... as i stated before Hollywood as nothing to do with vampires... nothing.

Those stories about such creatures came thousands of years ago... so, Hollywood just puts them in a flat screen nothing more...

If, and now i just go with the "if", if God exists and we were made by Him and the bible is Hes Holly word, than i can assure you that every living creature no matter if its good or evil at our own eyes, were made by God...

about vampires, actually they don't need to die to become a vampire... if anyone involved himself into satanism, not the fancy thing... but real satanism... and if anyone still believe that there aren't such thing as that you may have to think twice... I'm Portuguese and i'm gonna use a simple example about "evil things", one or two weeks ago a portuguese gay journalist was brutally murdered you New York, i believe you all heard of that... so, if a 21 year old boy can do that kind of thing, what do you think that a satanist sect that worships demons and satan can do? much worse right?

now, if the bible is true, according to the bible if anyone practice some evil things, that person gains certain powers... anyone can "apply" to be vampire in Satanism, but not anyone can make it... are you willing to kill and do some really weird stuff to became one? like having sex with demons for example, or peal the skin of a living baby? and this before you become a vamp...

is this hard to believe? well... just wait and see... a new and outstanding time is coming... and will all start when the Israelites destroy the Dome of the Rock and start building the Solomons Temple for the third time...

it is not far... so... lets wait and see.



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ArthurVolts
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18:59:47 Jan 17 2011
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^^^ I like the above reply, but I'ld like to add that there is no such thing as good or evil. The concept is man made.







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BelladonnaBCera
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20:34:59 Jan 17 2011
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Malakh,
What makes you think of Vampirs that way? Did you read it some where, because surely you know not all written works are true, and of course all old writtings past down through generations has been retold, rewritten, therefor, some of the original was lost. (for example..The bible. There are scriptures missing within that old book of god, ha you may not think so, but there are trust me. Or don't, I mean not to change ones beliefs, simply inform the misinformed.) Vampires are not reanimated corpses thank you, that is zombies. That idea came from old folk-lore due to the fact that once a corpse was placed into the ground it's body bloated from the gases inside. People of those times were gullable and thought the corpse was still alive, thus came the myths. Not all vampires are evil, just as no one person is the same as another, it is the same for all creatures. Humans cannot understand all things, they may think they understand an animal, how it works, yet they know not what it thinks, how it sees, do they? Therefor, how can you know all of a creature you have never encountered? One you have never tried to sit with, and understand instead bannish it, pretend it is not there because it is different. That is monsterous if you ask me. But again, we are not that different from you, we think the same (even though we have more of a preditor manner), act the same, look the same, have the same interests, so why give us such horrid discriptions? We have done no such thing to you, we have tollerated your stealing our land, threatening to kill us should we set foot upon any country no our own, let you kill us and kill this earth without so much as a word. Give us some respect please.



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Oceanne
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20:44:17 Jan 17 2011
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"There are energies in this world and in certain people of this world that are beyond basic comprehension and understanding, because the TRUE acceptance of such knowledge strips away belief and replaces it with truth."


Very true.And it works both ways.;)
Too many assumptions simply because one doesnt believe in things the way you do is not a good thing and in the end just might leave you with your head spinning.
Malek,thank you for taking the time to address my question.



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malakh
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20:54:00 Jan 17 2011
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BelladonnaBCera I'm talking about serious things here, and you are telling me that you are a vampire? is that correct?

well, if it is, i'm sorry but you're just a role-player... sorry but vampires don't come to the internet saying they are vampires... and no i did not read it in a book... i've been there... see it... done it... so... i guess you just deluding yourself



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malakh
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20:57:19 Jan 17 2011
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Oceanne you are very welcome... the pleasure is mine... :)



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Oceanne
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20:59:59 Jan 17 2011
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Im sorry..Malakh.Didnt mean to misspell your name.

"well, if it is, i'm sorry but you're just a role-player... sorry but vampires don't come to the internet saying they are vampires... and no i did not read it in a book... i've been there... see it... done it... so... i guess you just deluding yourself"

I hate to say this,but words such as these follow a pattern and are seen almost everytime one claims to be one,by another who chooses to elude to it.Everyone is always a fake if they dont happen to subscribe to what one person feels is the REAL Vampire.
And so we have it.No one knows what a real vampire is .Wonder why...



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malakh
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21:07:17 Jan 17 2011
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hahaha no worries sweetie... i understood!

about that you are right... as for me i may have mislead someone, but the truth is that i never said that i'm a vampire, i never was or never will be... the price is to high for that... but, you would be amazed of what you would find here in Europe... ;)



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Oceanne
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21:07:24 Jan 17 2011
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"So, is it so difficult to believe in the existence of supernatural vampires? Is it so hard? How come? The world is full of supernatural signs and mysteries that we don't know even ten per cent of it... and yet here we are talking about the dark things... talking about the magic beings and spirits within."



I am going to paste a thought I pulled from my journal as it fits and might explain my position a bit more clearly..


I feel that many times a distinction can be drawn between supernatural effects and what we call preternatural effects. Supernatural is defined as that which occurs entirely outside the physical laws of the universe.In other words, miracles. Preternatural, on the other hand, can defined as events that, while they certainly might be on the edge of the curve of what we now believe possible,yet are so common in us as humans that they cannot be denied, their mechanics can many times be explained by physical processes and in my experience, is how even the most magical effects manifest... as uncanny co-incidences, flashes of illumination ,empahetic and even precog and telepathic events that would appear to be supernatural at first glance but perhaps in fact,are not.
Ones man's majick or divinity is another man's engineering or physics.


And it is because of this line of thought I dont believe in supernatural vampires.And any that I have met...and yes,I have met some,in no way came close to being supernatural in any aspect.They were actually pretty sickly and on the weak side to be honest.



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Oceanne
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21:14:47 Jan 17 2011
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LOL kool,I am glad you understand what I am saying.
I have been to Europe many,many times actually.I have also lived in Bulgaria and learned and saw many things..And still,I dont believe in the vampire as many times portrayed.I also feel that once it can be established what a Vampire really is,it will be much easier to come to terms with.I do believe in them but not as supernatural beings or creatures who live on blood.As far as "taking energy" Almost every human on the planet does that,so it doesnt fall into supernatural in my opinion.



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UpirLikhyj
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21:20:23 Jan 17 2011
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"Ones man's majick or divinity is another man's engineering or physics."


I think that far more often, one man's "majick or divinity" is another man's con-artistry.




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Oceanne
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21:21:49 Jan 17 2011
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Bella,
I would love to know in this day and age who is out to kill you because you are a vampire? Also,if anything,on this site there are plenty of peeps who want to believe.And plenty who need more than a word...So why wont any real Vampires step up to the plate? All the eluding and such simply isnt getting anyone anywhere.



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malakh
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21:25:39 Jan 17 2011
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Oceanne i understand your point of view and it is as valid as mine or any one else's points of view...

actually it's quite hard to believe in miracles or supernatural things... even Thomas couldn't believe the other disciples when they say that they saw Jesus alive...

John 20:25-29 "The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: {then} came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace {be} unto you.
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust {it} into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed {are} they that have not seen, and {yet} have believed."

take a good look at the end of verse 29 "...because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed {are} they that have not seen, and {yet} have believed."

the thing here is that it is possible to see... but where is the glory in that? right?

but thank you very much for your posts... i liked them :)



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Oceanne
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21:45:30 Jan 17 2011
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Thank you for the verse,but before I read it.Why is it so hard to believe in miracles you say? They happen everyday.I see them.I believe everyone sees miracles.
Believing in Vampires liken to ones in folklore isnt even on the same level.



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ArthurVolts
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21:48:18 Jan 17 2011
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Though really the concept of calling these things supernatural perpetrates the lie.

If it exists in this world, its natural.

I think people need to really reflect on this aspect because it is VERY important if someone wishes to mentally elevate themselves beyond what they can see.

Relying on your eyes makes your mind blind and vice versa.

A balance of acceptance needs to be reached.




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malakh
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21:50:36 Jan 17 2011
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Is it not?

So let me first ask you this, and please be as honest as you can be... Do you believe that angels or demons have the ability or power (doesn't matter the word here) to materialize themselfs?



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malakh
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21:52:39 Jan 17 2011
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hehe thank you for your posts ArthurVolts, the question there is for Oceanne :P



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Oceanne
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22:03:10 Jan 17 2011
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No.I dont believe that demons can possess.Thats where we got them and why it pisses them off..Thats the power of the physical.
I tend to feel that they can,if they exist after all make a persons life here pretty rough though.



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Oceanne
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22:14:10 Jan 17 2011
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But then I tend to feel that demons are naught but manifest of the all inclusive nasty thought and hate that mankind generates.



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malakh
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22:25:58 Jan 17 2011
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sorry Oceanne i don't think that i understand you answer... you don't believe that they can possess someone or that they can not materialize themselfs into a human-like person for example?



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UpirLikhyj
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22:33:03 Jan 17 2011
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Returning to the topic of those falsely called the "Fallen Angels":

1. No where in the Bible are they ever called the "Fallen Angels."

2. Their correct name is, quite literally, the "Sons of God," as indisputably stated in Genesis (6:2) and Job (1:6, 2:1, 38:7).

A fairly concise commentary on the subject is found for this subject at www.net.bible.org :

The Hebrew phrase translated “sons of God” (בְנֵי־הָאֱלֹהִים, bene-ha’elohim) occurs only here (Gen 6:2, 4) and in Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. There are three major interpretations of the phrase here. (1) In the Book of Job the phrase clearly refers to angelic beings. In Gen 6 the “sons of God” are distinct from “humankind,” suggesting they were not human. This is consistent with the use of the phrase in Job. Since the passage speaks of these beings cohabiting with women, they must have taken physical form or possessed the bodies of men. An early Jewish tradition preserved in 1 En. 6-7 elaborates on this angelic revolt and even names the ringleaders. (2) Not all scholars accept the angelic interpretation of the “sons of God,” however. Some argue that the “sons of God” were members of Seth’s line, traced back to God through Adam in Gen 5, while the “daughters of humankind” were descendants of Cain. But, as noted above, the text distinguishes the “sons of God” from humankind (which would include the Sethites as well as the Cainites) and suggests that the “daughters of humankind” are human women in general, not just Cainites. (3) Others identify the “sons of God” as powerful tyrants, perhaps demon-possessed, who viewed themselves as divine and, following the example of Lamech (see Gen 4:19), practiced polygamy. But usage of the phrase “sons of God” in Job militates against this view. For literature on the subject see G. J. Wenham, Genesis (WBC), 1:135.


While subsection (1) of this commentary attempts to suppose that these "Sons of God" somehow took physical form rather than having already inherently possessed same, there is nothing in the account itself that states or suggests this. In fact, for them to have actually sired children further indicates that they must have inherently possessed bodies compatible with Human procreation rather than just assumed a physical form on this occasion.

Subsection 2 of the commentary proposes the long-dispelled suggestion that these "Sons of God" were, in fact, another name for the descendants of Seth. Of course, as the commentary points out, if so then the descendants would have been merely Human when Genesis makes certain that it is understood these were superhuman. Additionally, if merely human, how could they have also been with God while the Earth was being created, as stated in Job 38:7? Obviously, this explanation also falls flat on its face.

Subsection 3 then suggests that perhaps these "Sons of God" "possessed" such bodies, perhaps in the same manner as the "demonic" possession you claim. Unfortunately, if this is supposed, we run into an even bigger problem: the text describes them as being non-Human and... as a result... siring superHuman children.

If they had merely possessed Human male bodies, then the progeny thereof would have been simply Human children, as well.

Thus... the only conclusion that matches all of the facts here is that these "Sons of God" were superhuman already and possessed their own superhuman bodies, thus making them entirly capable to mate with Human females and sire superhuman children... exactly as described in Genesis 6:4 : "They (the progeny of these "Sons of God" and Human women) were the mighty heroes of old, men of renown."

The commentary further states regarding these children who were "...the mighty heroes of old..." : The parenthetical/explanatory clause uses the word הַגִּבֹּרִים (haggibborim) to describe these Nephilim. The word means “warriors; mighty men; heroes.” The appositional statement further explains that they were “men of renown.” The text refers to superhuman beings... .

Obviously, these children were not "monsters" or "demons" but were wonderful heroes who benefitted Humankind, just as the progeny of the Sumerian Annunaki (their far-more ancient version of this same tale) were the very Kings that ruled Sumer and, later, Egypt, as well.

It is also obvious that these "Sons of God" who sired such superhuman children on Earth, were with God when the Earth was created and who, according to the Book of Job (Ch. 38:7), were perhaps even helpful in its creation at which time it is reported that they all "shouted for joy."


Now that we hopefully have a better understanding of who the "Sons of God" actually were... and still are... we can now take a look at the systematic conspiracy thereafter to deliberate lie and malign and vilify and ultimately demonized these "Sons of God," thereafter.

Between 4,000 and 2,000 BCE, Sumer/Babylon first recorded in written form its accounts of these "Sons of God" (Called "Annunaki" by them, which means in Sumerian: "Sons of the Heavenly Prince", which is pretty synonymous!) in which these Annunaki visitors were truly "heroes" and "men of renown" who sired a race of superhuman demigods that ruled over the Earth justly and revealed to them many wonderful skills and abilities called in Sumerian, the "me."

Between 2,000 and 1,000 BCE, the Old Testament was reported verbally and passed along verbally in which this same story is altered significantly in that, while these Sons of God are still still considered very beneficial and who sired equally wonderful children, called "...they mighty men (heroes) of old, men of renown"... yet they are also strangely blamed for Noah's Flood for no actual given reason. This was the first phase of vilification against them. During and then following the Babylonian Exile (ca 600 BCE), the Old Testament was formally written down as we have it today.

Then between 200 - 100 BCE, suddenly we find the "Book of Enoch" written in which these same "Sons of God" from thousands of years earlier are truly demonized horrifically and in complete contradiction with the Book of Genesis and Job. No longer are they called the "Sons of God" but are instead greatly demoted and portrayed as disobedient "angels" who came to Earth and sired not "heroes" and "men of renown," but instead are depicted as evil monsters, huge cannabilistic giants who devour men and livestock up to a thousand per day (?!) and who were also supposedly condemned to death due to what is described as "addition to lust." This is in complete contradiction with the accounts written a thousand years earlier of events that had occurred even thousands of years before that!

The point is that as the Book of Enoch and Jubilees so radically contradicts both Genessi and Job, then these two far-more contemporary books are indisputably wrong and, in fact, apparently quite deliberately so unless it is to be supposed that the author(s) of Enoch and Jubilees were somehow unforgiveably ignorant of what is found in Genesis and Job.

And if they are wrong... then so also is the Book of Jude and II Peter, Chapter 2 that so obviously and deliberately borrowed from Enoch and in despite of the Enoch's contradictions with Genesis. In fact, one quote in the Book of Jude was lifted directly from the Book of Enoch.

And if Enoch and Jubilees (and thus Jude and II Peter) are wrong... then these "Sons of God" were indeed agents for good and righteousness and their children were, just as Genesis declared them to be, "the heroes of old, men of renown"... and are to this day.

And, in fact, such is the case, indeed. And these children, this progeny of these ancient "Sons of God" who have been deliberately maligned and demonized ... both as demons and, later, as vampires... are, in fact, agents of utmost good who have been falsely demonized so as to incite Humankind to reject them and attempt to slaughter them.

Thus... yes... the Bible does speak of those later called "vampires" in Eastern and Central Europe. However, they are not as depicted in fiction... at all.


- Upir



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Oceanne
Oceanne
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22:34:59 Jan 17 2011
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Both.I would say that we make our own demons by certain thought ,decision and action which cause our lives in turn to be shit.Karma with back up.I dont believe that they are angry souls.Angry souls have no power here anymore.When we see them,we are possibly accessing akashic record(Torsion fields)..but thats another story.



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BelladonnaBCera
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23:36:53 Jan 17 2011
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Oceanne,
As I have said in one of my journal entires, it is safer so be of human race than my own. As they have since the dawn of time, humans are yet hunting us, they call themselves slayers. There are also of course our own species who hunt us, trackers. As you have heard or surley read upon, the wolf species all most went extinct due to two unruly brother werewolves playing at the church during the 18th century. We have established rules my dear ha just as you humans have rules. Trust me, there are many who want to...come out of hiding, tread upon land that was first ours and is now the humans'...They do not wish to come out meet and greet certainly even you can imagin why that is. They wish for revenge, and some of us, I for instance would rather get to know you, perhaps bring back that which you used to be, respectful, well mannered, not boisterous as the generations have become, spitting at their elders.

You as a human, with all of your knowledge and experiance, all of the things you have seen, yet even for you it is hard to believe we are real, yes? Imagin what it would be if we made ourselves truely known now, would any one truely believe? And once we proved it ha...Would they not attack? Of course..For us to make ourselves known America, Europe, as well as all of the other governments would have to rewrite the truce. THEY would have to let us set foot on their countries, not threatening to kill us before that would happen. Do you really think any government would do that? Would risk such a grave secret they have kept to become known. I highly doubt that.



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Oceanne
Oceanne
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00:47:25 Jan 18 2011
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Thats a great post,and I thank you for taking the time..But all I can say to it are two things.I have a certain criteria as to what I feel a Vampire is.
And if anyone claims something other than that,I want to see evidence for myself.All the great storys in the world are not going to convince me .I do like hearing them however,for entertainments sake.



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Oceanne
Oceanne
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00:53:25 Jan 18 2011
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And I would love to know of one thing that makes anyone inhuman as you claim .
Just one.



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BelladonnaBCera
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01:05:56 Jan 18 2011
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Here's a good one that you humans seem so interested in, life extention. I myself have lived very very long I was born before Christ (whether you believe me is your opinon)



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Oceanne
Oceanne
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01:08:15 Jan 18 2011
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You mean in the same body?



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Oceanne
Oceanne
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01:10:05 Jan 18 2011
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And no,I am sorry,I do not believe that claim.



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VR System
VR System

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01:10:05 Jan 18 2011
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This thread has been automatically closed for length.



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