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Do you think the numbers of Kaballa can be changed, and if so what type of system of numbers have you found to work the best in your magik workings...333

What is the basic premise of Kabala?

The premise in question I believe is that each letter in the Kabbalah represents a number and each number has certain mystical properties. Gematria I think it's called.

Based on earlier threads and this one...Morlock...are you trying to find a way to change reality?

I'm torn in how to respond to this question, so I'll just plow forward. It's not that Kaballah (only) is based numerically, it is Hebrew itself. The ultimate prize is to figure out the true name of god, but that is forbidden knowledge, so would the true Kabbalist pursue it? Further, anyone who was a Kabbalist also believes to vast set of other corresponding beliefs, none the least of which is that Hebrew is divinely inspired. So in short, I would say no: a person who is definitionaly a Kabbalist would not believe the numebrs could be changed or they would be maybe something "based" on Kaballah, but not a believer in the truest sense. Ithink that made sense...

Sevenn, you rock... as per, usual!

As for the Kaballah numeric solutiion to all of theology... rent "Pi" it's a great sci-fi flick about a mathmetician searching for the key number that will unlock the secrets of the universe.

From the movie "Pi"
"Sol Robeson: Hold on. You have to slow down. You're losing it. You have to take a breath. Listen to yourself. You're connecting a computer bug I had with a computer bug you might have had and some religious hogwash. You want to find the number 216 in the world, you will be able to find it everywhere. 216 steps from a mere street corner to your front door. 216 seconds you spend riding on the elevator. When your mind becomes obsessed with anything, you will filter everything else out and find that thing everywhere."

Like Sevenn I have my reservations with these posts.

Aside from the Kabala's layers to use the names of god. They also are more immediate. They can according to the Sefer Yetzirah create. The 22 intonations correspond to the vital organs in the body, the planets, and the Zodiac. You intone these with all their vowel combinations (takes 20 years to master this ability to be able to apply it) you can create a being, and such a thing is bloodless sacrifice when you offer it up.

Its a map of creation. The above, the Below. You cannot change the numerolgical values of the hebrew, or the Sephirot/Qlipoth they are fixed like the atributes of the planets. They are fixed because they are based off things found in this world, as such they correspond to the outer world.

Its not something that anyone can change because to change it, you have to force change here and out there in the big cosmos.

I would like to thank those of you who responded with such knowledgeable answers, however I am of a different idea..

Now I understand what you all have said, and I also understand that numbers, matter, energy and god are all subjective ideas...

1+1 does not always = 2... in some cases it will = 3 or 4ect...

the concept of numbers and letters together =ing a total that is attributed to a item, material or spirit, is still just a concept that can be recreated as many times as aperson would like to try...

Someone said they felt that i was trying to create/destroy a world/universe...of corse i am and so are we all by changing the structure of our workings...

There is never just one way to do something...peace and love...333

Morlock....

You are correct in saying 1+1 doesnt always =2....but in order to understand the numberings and the system you have you to be able to understand what they mean by 1 when they say One....333 when they say it, The numbers are merely symbols attempting to best stimulate a greater thought.

Change the numbers, change the thought you wind up with something different. You will however be left with your differences instead of the original concept. The construct of the tree is simplistic yet advanced. There are ways to come at it where things change and are moved around. But you negate the purpose of the tree when you do so. IF the tree is a model for so many things. Then to change the model is to change what it represents and then you lose the significance you seek. Thus you cannot change it by simply adding different numbers.

IT will remain. as it is ineffable as a diagram, a structure. Change the numbers if you want it still remains the same, what you have changed is but a discription, a way of viewing, but its essence will remain. That nothing can change.

Alright people, let me lay it out for you. As I study the Kaballa as it is one of the factors of Universal energies.

Sevenn is right to a point, the letters are supposed to symbolize the name of "God". But in truth, they are a simple mathematical equation to determine what calculates the letters of its "Gods" name.

Not only "Gods", but the heirarchy of the angelic race as well. As the Kaballa is the study of the heavens, the angelic race is the first part of the road one must venture to gain higher understanding, or wisdom to be able to achieve such knowledge.

It is basically called spiritual alchemy. Kaballic fashion is a door into the higher forms of this type of alchemy.

i never thought to replace the old, but to recreate something new through a system like unto the TOL...

Thanx to all of you for the great feedback...333