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In the respective subcultures of pagans, vamps, otherkin, and associated others. I pose this observation.

Aside from Luciferians, who seek to become one with the spiritual Satanic principals, and embrace the notions of being like unto the body of Ahriman, and the whore current of Az, representing the passive and active, formative, and inspirationally motivating creative forces in creation. If you could define these currents it would be the red and black serpents creating the evolution and the will to become greater.

I therefore move, that there should be greater discourse into these fields. What is the involvements of those dealing with such things?

What do you feel that such contact with the dark forces, and the primal urges within the subconscious minds of those men and women have for the beneficial attributes for those whom develop them, as well as offer services to those outside themselves, beyond petty desires?

Yes dealing with such things causes those currents to saturate the lives of those who deal with them, the more the involvement, the more the individual becomes apart of those currents, neither one existing without the other.

My question then is this. If you have all these denominations and divisions of aspects and attributes. Such as the different vampire houses, and the different sects of witchcraft, shamanism, Vodoun, Santeria, Sorcery, and so on. Then what would be able to benifit from those who offer the capacity to balance the scale?

Would it be beneficial for people to come to terms with these capacities? and in your own lives do you have the necessary strength to undergo the own tests of your spirit to achieve these states of coexistence with the primal currents?

Would you feel that to become the Theurgist, the Thaumaturge, the Alchemist, the infernalist, is a logical step towards the over all development of society? Especially due to the overwhelming crossovers between quatum physics and psychology?

I would not say these attributes developed or in developement help society, but it would be for individual gain and nothing more.

Sure one would benefit in society from the learned thought forms of each study, but society as a whole? Society is there to help the individual progress through their natural stages, not the other way around.

exactly.

But if the individual is helped, through the individuals assisting, and offering aid and service to those individuals within that society, so they can benefit; woulld that not justify the efforts?

Making it a justifiable reason that developing the self, and the techniques, making those available to be learned and studied, for those souls who wish to develop along different paths then what is currently being offered?

Are you saying that in your opinion, society should half certian courses regarding these aspects...Or whether or not society as a whole would benefit from the lessons of the individual?

I am really not understanding the premiss of this discussion.

Thats what im saying.

Both.

There should be things provided in society which benefit the individual, which strengthens society as a whole.

Business does this helping the respective communities, as well as the individuals who do the work within the business.

But i also feel that it would benefit the individuals which make up said community, if they had the means through the specialized training in the disciplines of the high arts.

Like there exists within one city different martial arts academies, offering the different disciplines of Tai Chi, Kung Fu, Tae kuan Do, Ninpo, Ninjustu, etc....

then my next question is, if these things were offered in such a light which showed them for what they were, instead of sugar coating them in the false constructs of perceptions.

Saying that an Infernalist Vampirically based store, is actually for satanists, ceremonial mages, luciferians, and students of the dark arts, instead of wiccans, and light and fluffy metaphysicians which couldnt cast their way out of a paper bag.

*Chuckles* Now thats funny...I know quite a few flakes who couldn't cast their way into the same bag.

I see and get what you are meaning. Instead of the sugar coating society offers, analogy being a couple of religions of which I will most assuredly will not name as it is against forum guidelines.

Offer the full and blunt methods, rather than with subtle subterfuge not to be outcasted by a society which literally damns these teachings because of the belief and faith of those religious aspects.

A more open minded society is what you are wishing to gain, though this is a seriously far fetched dream, or illusion of grandier, it is improbable it will happen anytime soon...Save for a few places around the world. Such as here in New Olreans.

Good luck with that concept. How would you go about implementing these ideas?

There in lies the uniqueness of the situation.

Society would adapt to them. People can adapt to things so long as they feel they are not being lied to.

If you are honest with people they will accept you for what you are. So thusly taking into account this capacity for honesty, despite the fact we are lied to every day by media, and general news, and people that we work with. Then i see no reason why it would not work to be a standard.

implementing it is somewhat different. I would have to say, through the usage of dark magick, and sorcery...

Which is why you created your book as well as website? Very intelligent. Even though we still draw that certain conclusion as to whether society as a whole may deal accordingly with the teachings of the arcane.

*nods*

exactly. Im still milling about the means through which I plan to fully implement such things. Yet it is needed, and undeniable that something is needed. And what is provided by myself, and the people which are working with me to bring these things to pass, are doing so in an exquisite manner.

But this is just a needing to rationalize the constructs of the mind, something that will really cement the aspects and make us successful. We are what we are, and there is no need to sugar coat it. To do that would be to diminish the work we set out to do.

So again, it comes down to society, the arcane, and individuals within that society, and then its the practical, will it survive on the front lines. What would be so needed to ensure that it survives?

Survival of this type always depends on the courtesy of civilization as a whole as well as the needs of said cultures within the civilization.

We all know that certain ramifications will be obvious. As always at the start of a major developement. Change is always iminent, just depends as to which part of society are willing to accept these changes.

Thats the problems I am running across.

Where is the best place to develop something of this nature. It doesn't have to be big. But even a small shop in a tiny town has the potential to become something tremendously challenging to the establishment.

Know any cities or regions where such would be appropriate? This would be best done in a mecca of developed options, however at the same time, it would be good to start it up in a developing cultural centre so it has time to grow with the customers, and the community. Would you not agree?

That it would be able to do well on the front lines of this social revolt? or do hide within the protective barriers of a big city which has various groups, and public/private houses working within its limits?

NEW ORLEANS, bloody meca of all new creations...Trust me on this, I know personally.

Looks like im moving to the french quater.....ahahahaha.....i do miss that city....*shrugs* back to Louisiana....and i just left too....

Do you think it would be prudent to start up this way here? or do a total start up down there? despite all the competition between the vendors like Exotica, and the Vodoun Stores, not to mention all of those lovely vampire groups which lurk, and all the gypsies, and so on.

A place like New Orleans (and been there many times) is a good starting point because of the tolerance of so many cultures and beliefs.

Society on a whole does not like the term 'dark', especially used with arcane, arts, magic - gives off the devil worship problems.

Even 'normal' people have so many misconceptions with Wicca and all the rest and so many people cannot tell there is a difference between Wiccan and Pagan.

You have quite the work cut out for you!

Yea, thats why this thread, and the questions posed.

If through the work of the things developed by the company I have been fortunate enough to get to a point where we are ready to get started, we cut the facade of us being like unto the rest of our subcultue. Standing for what it is we are. Would we be better in a place that is used to odd balls like that? or would we do better from the wake of the culture shock in the small town deep in the Bible Belt. Where only the last few people like Minerva survive.

Need to start someplace and ease into it.

While this seems to be a two-way conversation between infernal and soulshroude, I would like to politely inject my own thoughts.

If I understand correctly, InfernalMage, you propose to offer actual, formal teachings in the realm of chaos and the darker arts so that there would be a place of learning should the individual desire so.

I couldn't agree more. We have enough christian colleges and seminaries that are oriented towards spiritual foundation basics and nothing more that it would also be beneficial to have formal training in other arts readily available.

There are place online where one might find information, but in terms of practical usage, it's a bit like learning how to hack a computer system with nothing but written instructions. The basics of learning are not present and one almost has to back track their learning to find if it has any real use for them. I hope that made sense, and I hope it was geared towards answering your question.

Masterful Insight from a member of the Darkest Blood.

Thats exactly part of my point. Opening up the Formal education in the mechanical theory and development of the left hand path.

Persoanally i am sick of having to deal with so much garbage and seminaries clogging up the works when it comes to spiritual teachings. The company I have licensed and started out here, does exactly that. Offering classes and services to the community, as well as contracts to those souls who feel they require specific services provided for them.

However when it comes to opening the showroom and actual locations, other then me traveling around the region, it causes a bit of hesitation if this is the region for setting down such infernal roots. Right in the bible belt....Good for us all if we succeed, or bad for us if it goes belly up because we can't stir the public, and have the needed support from the pagan communities we seek to serve.

If I may, the Bible Belt is a bit of a difficult starting point. If that is your desire, you would be facing a pretty steep climb to get where you want to go.

Thats the problem that I am finding.

Great as it would be to start up in New Orleans, New York, Seattle, Denver, or Arizona.

My biggest problem is that I dont want it to be more of the same. If i can start it off in New Orleans, or some place like that, it wont be the same as every other shop down there anyway. so where ever it starts, its still gonna have similiar climbs of drawing the people through its doors.

My vote is New Orleans. Hehe ^^

Of course NOLA has its own share of open teaching areas as well as groups...I would like to think it is one of the only cities in the nation that has the Freemasons on one side, and the Golden Dawn's Ordo Templi Orientis on the other.

As well as A Voodoun Church, Catholic ordination, Tarot readings on Jackson Square...As well as Pagan ceremonies in City Park. A wide variety of cultures in one small spec of the city. Can't go wrong there.

(Add to last post)

Seems to me that NOLA is very diversified. I almost forgot about the Jewish Synagogue in the Uptown half of the Garden District, as well as a Kaballic building in the Central Business district.

So many differant cultures to choose from.

I would agree to go to New Orleans , I have been there many times and there is so many different cultures and beliefs there not to mention it is a very old spirited city with many a dark force as well... I wish you luck on it.

I did read up a bit on it but it is confusing.

If nothing else it would be a wonderful experiment if you set up shop in the bible belt.

Test your powers etc....could even make that a selling point at a later date.

Thats the thing about N.O.

There is already so much general stuff there...each denomination has its own quarter of the quarter so to speak.

You know from reading it SoulShroude, that we are not doing any of the work similar to the OTO, or to the Golden Dawn, even freemasonry rituals, and The Cabala/Qlipoth isn't approached in the same way with our work.

So if we were to be truely different then would we be in a city, potentially numb to the differences of being so different from the standardized form?

But if it comes down to sales, and generation of revinue, then the potential comes from NO. not the Bible Belt.....So to start, and gain support from all subcultures, we could begin to establish a center in Savannah, coming here, and building up, then by the time we hit Atlanta, and N.O. we would have some decent press.

No matter what we will be called devil worshippers, and all sorts of not nice things. For the most part, They are empty threats, and will inspire most devil worshipers and the like to come and see what we have. You would be surprised how great publicity statements like that make. Yet we are different even still from the Church of Satan, and the Temple of Set....so wouldn't it be fitting for us to start in our own region? Or where people are all ready offered so many things?

yes ease in to it slowly

thats the plan thus far, by the time we launch the retail division, which is only planned as one aspect to this venture, we will be able to launch respectively where ever it is we choose. If we so desire to do so either in atlanta, and New Orleans we are looking at estimates within six months to 10 months of each other. But we are safely going to do so every 36 months so that our capacity for product recognition gets established within the comunities. Overall we are looking at about 10 years before every division is online to some degree.

Things are the way they are for a reason who are we to question what the divine ones have in mind for us

We are human, it is our nature to question that which is established is it not?

Who are we to spit in the face of our capacity and allow nothing to happen? when we are provided the very means for our own development?

But your point is your own, hope you enjoy what every your views lead you to not do in your life.

New Orleans all the way

I got about half way into this listing and decided to just skip to the end. I apologize if i missed a post that deals with my own thoughts on the matter.

First of all, you all seem to assume that primal forces are dark. Primal forces are just that. Primal. They have no care for the human concepts of good and evil. They have a purpose of their own. It may not be benefitial to humans all the time, but it doesnt make it dark. Chaos is just another primal being. It still has rules that it orders itself too. Maybe you just dont look hard enough in the right directions.

Second, you all seem to assume that they arent already active in todays societies. Every time it rains or the season changes the primal forces are moving. Everytime a hurricane hits New Orleans a primal force just came through. The only darkness in the world is humans and their selfishness.

Interesing thoughts and ideas. I would have thought that you cant people learn.........
I know if i wanted to learn something nothing would barr me from it especailly now a day with the net and all

I second the motion Infernal..New awleans. Not only is it accepted there,but peeps come from all over the world just for that reason..to see and obtain info on it.