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Ok. I've read so many different theories on this site but I haven't yet found one about the "Sub-Human" theory.

Many animal species are sub-branches off of a common ancestor. Why should this be any different? In my view (and I'm not the only one as I have discussed this with many of my aquantences outside of VR) Vampires, Lycans/Werewolves, and Witches along with maybe a hundred or more other species of "supernatural", are all branches off of the human gene. Mutations that contaminated the human gene pool centuries or maybe even millenia ago and have since evolved and branched off further.

If you look at it that way then it is also possible for a human family tree to contain vampire or werewolf or any other genetic "mutation", therefore making it possible for a "supernatural" to be born from human parents if both carry the gene.

This is my take on it. What's yours?

I believe you are theorying the idea of the Kingdom Phylum aspect, are you not?

Humans:
kingdom: animalia
phylum: chordata
class: mammalia
order: primate
family: homindae
genus: homo
species: h. sapiens

Now, with the above list... please provide with an explanation where a sub-human specie would come into play. Please state logically as the Vampire Raves audience of members does have a few doctors that can prove or disprove the association.

I've been following with much fascination recent discoveries about Neandertal genes in the non-sub-saharan (!?) human population.

This got there by inbreeding which lends strength to the theory that Neandertals didn't die out but were simply absorbed into the modern homo sapiens population.

As a starting point for a fantasy fiction trilogy the idea that "wolf like" branches of the pre-humans could have likewise existed, and likewise left their genetic markers as they got absorbed into the HS populations, well, why not?

And who knows what else there might have been at some time?

It's fun to think about it ... :-)

There would have to be a specific gene resource to produce such a person. I'd also like to know where your research is derived from? And wouldn't the parent have to possess more than just a genetic source? I would think the parent would have physical attributes to contribute to the mutation

i dont believe in cave men thos were not us at all i dont know what speces they were if there were a speces or alian i dont know but i do know not human i did not come from a monkey i came from the dust in the ground brought to life by the breath of God .
now back to the subject at hand do vampires make vampires maybe if they mate but turning i dont believe in it . becsaue if you are turned into a vampire by a bite then the vampire would be part of the english breed and some of them came form a blood line of bad blood . meaning that the only way they could live was to get blood put into them from vain not mouth .

Even if we forgo the fact that animals out side of there own species don't naturally breed and all of the scientific impossibilities with splicing the genetic code and inserting a foreign gene you are still left with one truly important hurtle.

The stories and histories themselves make it an impossibility.

Lycans are a cursed creature according to the folklore. They are not passing on blood or a disease via their bite. Thus their transformation into the wolf form is an act of physical magic and not genetics.

Vampires are traditionally Demonic / Angelic creatures who according to the most basic of folklore's are either 100% supernatural or are humans without souls who need to feed on the life force of other beings.
Again you have no workable angle for the mixing of genetics because the condition is spiritual in it's root cause.

And, ~Severus~... I suppose that if a folkloric vampire were to have a blood test taken and examined by a professional specialist, the result wouldn't land anywhere near the Kingdom Phylum arena to be played with?

I have never made any attempt to hide what I believe, in fact as both a real world coven master and a VR coven master I practice in my every day life what I preach. I explain in great depth and provide facts from every angle including modern science to support my ideologies, well I do for those within my covenant and inner circle anyway. But even so, I have had more than a sufficient number of debates with some of the best VR has to offer (in the very forums) for most people to know that I am not a snake oil salesman... I am the real deal and I know my stuff.
One look at my coven page will tell you all you need to know about what I believe to be the truth regarding Vampirism.

truly the only thing I can say is, forgoing any genetic research, the possibility of producing a defect of anything like a vampire is "possible" but that is a one in billions chance. As for people that change into warewolves or lycan .... sorry the closest we have now are the people who suffer from the so called warewolf disease. But if any one is willing to go so far as to prove to me that they truly are a vampire , please feel free to let me lock you in a room till you are starving and see if you don't grab that cheese burger I throw in front of you. ;)

I have read and re-read through the entire thread for the length that it is, ~Severus~... your convictions and ideologies have not been tested, so I am wondering where your defensive stance comes from regarding "Coven" vs Kingdom Phylum as per the course of the discussion?

Please re-read my last post before assuming...

I made no assumptions... I simply stated that in my time here on VR and in the main forum threads (past to present) I have commented on a wide range of subjects regarding the spiritual nature of vampirism. Most of which have been highly scientific and historically accurate.

In short, many people have tried vigorously to scientifically disprove me and my ideals... None have been able to.
In fact most have admitted (privately) that my point of view has change their perspective.

KnightLevin,

I think you have been watching to many Hollywood movies. Your idea of what a vampire truly is clearly comes from the literary work of the past century and not from a historical point of view.

Starving someone and throwing in a cheeseburger... really??
That's like explaining to a police officer that the person you just murdered must have been a vampire because they died when you stabbed them in the heart with a wooden stake. lol

I didn't mean to start arguements about people's credibility in or outside of VR. I simply stated that this was my take and view on where all the different "supernaturals" could have developed from, and asked for anyone who wanted to, to tell their belief regarding their origin.
All I ask is that you think about what I said and look at the possibilities of it.

And as for folklore and legend, they could have been used to mislead people from further investigating the chances of the creatures being real. I mean who would willingly report that there are species of supernatural outside of stories without them being either locked away in a mental ward somewhere or being laughed at by the scientific community who for the most part would rather not dig into "legends".

It's not your thread at all!!

The topic is a valid one and everyone is entitled to their own point of view. It's just that for a Vampire site the lack of basic Vampirism knowledge by our members is a bit embarrassing.
Why people here still continue to view Vampirism as the walking undead... bats who transform into blood suckers of the night, it's all beyond me.

It's like classifying all Pagans or Wiccans as broom flying, green skinned, wicked witches of the west and to be honest there are a lot of us that find it down right insulting.


Here folks... try to have at least some basic knowledge of a subject before you comment on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire

a vampire is not a specie of its own kind. a vampire is an entity or a being within a human body. its not about the fangs or the blood but more of a spiritual and psychological make up of the soul.

I dont believe in that idea mostly because Vampires are born human.Vampires are supposed to be the living dead,not really a "breed" ,as the result of some contagion transferred by a bite or whatever..

Egotism aside ~Severus~, of which I am not contesting... (meaning I really don't care about your supposed accolades here or from any messages, touting your own horn doesn't count as an accolade in my opinion and therefore is not credible), this discussion is not about credibility nor about personal accolades. It is about a question regarding a Kindom Phylum potential that you have completely ignored.

Please stick to the threads discussion or don't comment at all. If you would like to carry on a thread regarding personal complaints and convictions of accolades as to who is right vs who is wrong and how you stand atop some sort of "hill"... then please do so.

In this thread, regarding the posters querry, I would like a scientific response as to how a sub-human specie could come out and what it would be named, if proven to be accurate and justified. I am very interested in the responses but not in personal vendettas toward any member who things they are the "shit" and needs to be put in their place as to their "validities" and or "accuracies" regarding knowledge base and intellect.

Again, please try to stay on topic.

i think we need to remember that folklore and superstition had a way of explaining things, but scientific evidence brings true facts to light.

Here you go SS..

Domain: Eukarya
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Subphylum: Vertebrata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Primates
Family: Hominidae
Subfamily: Homininae
Genus: Homo
Species: sapiens
Subspecies: homovorus

Thats according to cryptozoologists.

Soulshroude,

In your first post you attempted to lay out the terms and conditions for which the thread's responses should be given. Then challenged the thread's poster and anyone else to follow the chain of proof you wanted to see.
You also proceeded to make the comment that some members of VR are doctors and we should for some reason keep that in mind. A clear attempt to imply that you are a doctor... a status for which you have not provided any evidence of.

I commented that Vampires are legendary creatures and that according tio those legends are spiritual beings. Making proof of anything from a historical perspective unlikly. You then proceeded to sarcastically challenge my posting.
Oceanna has even attempted to answer you in the format you desired and you still decided to address my comments and my comments alone.

You have not attempted to answer the posters question yourself, you have not attempted to provided anything of substance scientifically or intellectually to this thread. All I see are veiled challenges and you have the nerve to call me an egotistical person who has gotten off topic. lol

Lets see if you plan to provide even an opinion on the topic.

4 days later and still no response by soulshroude... I didn't think so.

Any way as I stated in my earlier posting, the folklore shows (in most cases) that vampires are traditionally half breeds already. This pairing is with the body of a human but the spirit -or- soul of something else. The nature of which makes the mixing of a third party donor, whether it be via naturual of scientific means an unlikly process.