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Dark Blessings to all. How many feel that we Vampyres/Vampires are a different race and that High Spiritual attainment is correlated to any Vampyre that has this Desire of what is esoteric, mystical and occult?

Note: What I mean by being a different race is that I believe that a Vampyre's soul inhabits the earthly vessel/body. Yet, the soul is different than that of a “normal” human.

I understand that all Vampyres are unique and that this would not apply to all Vampyres. Yet, what if? Please share what you think. Thank you!

In the Darkness,

Victorya

Well...To be a Vampire, without being portrait as a Hollywood type, is common in today societies. But, to be above others Human, impossible. he craving for the taste of blood, will not make us Super-human or perhaps, immortal. What if, we exist. Yes, the legend will become a reality and for sure, the outcome will not be good for the normal Human, because they will become the meal at the end of the day. what if.......

I believe it may very well be true that we are not as mundanes, I wouldn't say other worldly but definetly different. Not because of our feedings because of course not all Vamps feed from blood. But because we are more spiritualy attuned to different things, especially to other spiritual entities. We have a deeper understanding of things that go on around us and of our selves, much more than the average person. Don't get me wrong there are those mundains who can reach that level but it comes almost naturally to us.

To my mind this sounds kind of ..well Buffyish(not that thats a bad thing) I mean in some booksthey alluded to the vampire soul being demonesque it just retained the memories of the previous occupant.

Tyberius, you brought a good point. To all the organized churches, when something is not part of their agenda, automatic is a possession of demons, and for them, the only one that can drink blood, was Jesus. That is an easy way to manipulate the congregation of "brain washed followers".

Markus666` just a quick correction to your statement, in that Jesus never drank blood, but the "drinking of blood" in the case of Christianity is purely symbolic, usually with the use of wine or plain grape juice. similar is the symbolic "eating of the body of Christ" which is usually symbolized with bread... it's usually taken that these symbols are meant to be taking the purity of Jesus into one's own body... a little disturbing if you think too deeply into it, but there it is *sshrugs*

Interesting to received a reply about my comment. Thanks. There is any place in any bible that said that what the disciples pour in the Last Supper was wine, Himself said: Drink My blood". The modern theologists came with that story about the wine.. My humble opinion.

St John 6:54

"Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

Actually, Doru, you (deliberately?) left out the key word in that quote: "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood..."

This was not a vampiric saying indicating that blood, any blood, must be drank so as to attain "Eternal Life."

Instead, drinking Jesus' blood, alone, is being referenced here. And as all the Synoptic Gospels make clear, Jesus did not give his literal blood to them to drink. Instead, he gave them "the fruit of the vine" (grape juice or wine) to drink. In other words... the term "blood" was meant just as symbolically as was the eating of bread likewise meant to be symbolic of eating his flesh.

Victorya, my response to your question and your observations: Gospel of Mark 12:34.


You're not only thinking... but thinking outside the "box" of viewing and considering Vampires by Western (i.e., fictional) standards, which has you thinking in the right direction.

Should you continue on this journey and invest the time and energy to studying primary-source evidences and applying those reasoning and discernment skills you seem to possess, you might eventually discover just how far and how deep this "rabbit hole" actually goes. And at its end, should you travel it, you will find the answers to all your questions... not only about Vampires, but also about the origins of Humankind, of Earth History throughout all its æons and also of the bond connecting the preceding with Judeao-Christian (and, by extension, Islamic) religion, as well.

I would wish you luck, were it not for the fact that the success or failure of this journey has nothing to do with luck and everything to do with your ability to reason logically, filtering out likey truth from faleshood, and then have what survives this process then pass through the finer filter of disciplined emotional and spiritual discernment. Whatever nuggets of pure Truth are gleaned thereby, if carefully examined and correlated, will invariably reveal to you the Keys that will permit you to unlock all of Earth's histories and mysteries as they likewise reveal your own deepest and greatest potentials that until that moment will have lain unknown and unacknowledged inside you.

UpirLihyj, Thank you for the time that you have taken to have written such a magnificent articulation. One that leads to such ponder. I cannot agree with you more. The path is narrow, but fascinating.

If it were easy, all would traverse the desert of the first initiation of the individual self without impasse. Yet, initiation is the beginning; the first stirrings of the seed that lies within.

I posted a question that I feel I know the answer. But there is so much more to know. I quench to learn. I Desire Wisdom. Your words have inspire me so wholeheartedly. I am delighted to have met your acquaintance. I truly thank you, for posting.

In the Blood,

Victorya

"a Vampyre's soul inhabits the earthly vessel/body. Yet, the soul is different than that of a “normal” human"

If this is the case,then that would mean there are other different souls other than the "normal human soul"who inhabit human vessels as well.

Good answer, Oceane. then the roleplayers would come out and claim that they are "otherkin" and what not.

Not to add to my criticism, but if parts of society were "possessed" by other creatures/higher beings souls, the world would be more than a stranger place than what we live in today.

Since there is no real proof of a soul other than what each individual beings witness's for themselves, than much of this thread is pure speculation. A nice debate, but will get no where fast when in search of facts.

I am vampire because I have the "need to feed", not because I feel that my soul is different than the average individuals. I have no foreboding odd, dark, or archaic energies about me that would advertise that I have an "abnormal" soul. Actually, people around me tend to find me someone of a positive note.

Spiritualists can have their points of view, as well as theologists with their own.

Yes indeed, what if... it would be an awfully interesting world if the what if were a, how the hell..., huh?

The question you post is the very thing my coven believes and pratices in our every day lives. Those who see the truth do so because they have experienced it and lived it first had.


You are not alone... not by a long shot.

I know there are many who will say that the idea of a soul it's self is a false hood... some thing that can not be tested scientificly.

I say there is a simple exercise you can do to determine who you really are... "A Soul Test" if you like!!
Just sit down, close your eyes and clear you mind. Start off by noticing your physical body and it's exterior features, hand feet ext.

Fact: the idea that you are aware of your physical body is proof that you must be more than just your physical body. More than flesh and bones.
Now start applying this rule to other aspects of yourself. Become aware of your emotions stop and think about your life and events in it, be midful of your emotional state of being. Again the fact that you are aware of how you feel means that you are more than your emotions.
Finally turn your attention to your thoughts try to clear your mind of any and all thoughts... think about nothing. What you will notice is that dispites your best efforts, thoughtswill just pop in and out of your mind without you actively thinking about them. Because you are objectively aware of the thoughts poping in and out of your own mind you must be more than your mind, More than the sum of your thoughts and intelligence.

The end result of this process is you begin to realise no matter what single part of yourself you focus on there will always be a sense of awareness that is some how above and beyond everything else.
This inner awareness or inner essence is the real "you". This consciousness, this final state of being is the Soul. It is the basis of all your experiences past and present, asleep or awake, dead or alive... and it is eternal.

C. S. Lewis said:
"You don't have a soul... You are a Soul!!
What you have is a body."

Those souls who have evolved to understand this in a litteral sense and not just simply comprehend it's deep meaning and infulences on what you are. Those souls are themselves the ones who begin to evolve. No physical body is self sustaining and all living things must feed... So what happens when you realize your not a body but a soul - a life force??
A soul which requires more life force or energy than there own bodies can produce??

Victorya, you already know that answer, as do alot of other people... as I said "Your not alone".

It seems it is more like sharing, the real question is how can one tell? "the Eyes are the windows to the soul? " not sure but I have evidence of changes from green/almost yellow to black and with some to neon blue...I have mentioned this before but most under the black veil will not speak out which is really annoying. What's the big secret? 99% of people couldn,t care less and 1% think its cool.
However, a few have have said it is true but I will not name them because it is a breach of trust and Lame.
I would much rather they just posted a wink on this thread ;)

Grrrrrr...vampire hub, or network of cowards...Grrrrr....

I thank all whom have responded.

There,are many different opinions. That on its own is great. As the dynamic of the post is for individuals to share what they feel about the post topic. I do believe in a Spiritual connection to vampyrism.

There are some here who do. And others who do not. Without further hesitation I state that in my opinion all have the right to uphold or not, a spiritual or non spiritual approach, within each unique individual paradigm and/or personal choice.

Some responses show a degree of cohesion to my own beliefs.

ContessaIsabella, I thank you for sharing your personal insights and uniqueness. I feel that posts are an excellent source to be permeable to the beliefs of others.

Severus, I thank you, truly. Your post offered great insight and even a unique approach to those who believe in the soul, as well as, hold a Spiritual conviction related to their vampyrism. Your Coven sounds magnificent for one that would chose to incorporate Spiritual dimension. Very heartfelt was your comment “ you are not alone."

Oceanne, I would say that a a non human soul as a possibility, is immensely worthy to ponder. A very thought provoking response.

Royaltysfin, you write in a way that resonates very intensely with my chosen path

Blessings to all.

Vyctoria

Vyctoria,

You ask this question like it is easy to answer without your definition of a vampyre. I believe to give you a good answer the definition of vampyre should be stated, as there seem to be many kninds of them on this site. If you take the classic meaning of a vampyre, they are couless monsters. If you take a more accurate look at what society sees as a vampyre today you are looking at basically a human that has evolve to find more meaning in life than the every day hum drum of eat, sleep, work, play and reproduce. You are looking at someone who survives on blood, phsychic energy, or life forces. The first one does not require a soul to injest, as it is an animal instinct. The other two require a soul to be able to injest and do something with it such as extend life, or heal oneself.

Therefore, my qustion to you is, "what kind of vampyre are you talking about?"

It is believed that every human has a soul, this was unreliably proven in 1907 by one Dr. Duncan McDougall, with his sensitive spring beds with 6 dying patients at his disposal. Each patient lost a certain amount of grams. The movie entitled, "21 Grams" supported this theory.

A reference to this is: here

I have experienced certain phenomenon on my own and have realized that if I didn't have a soul then why does my own body without a body appear to touch things that are normally impossible to touch if I am not awake? I would say this was an astral or O.B.E experience, but how could I justify this beyond a shadow of a doubt to any of you without proper physical proof? I can't. Thus in your eyes it is pure speculation and technical theory until you have experienced it for yourselves.

While I agree with ~Severus~, every human has a soul... I cannot commit to the belief that each soul could be a different entity other than human, I am not saying this is impossible... simple improbable as I stand by my firm affirmation that each person needs to experience the phenomenon for themselves but will still come up with inconclusive evidence that they cannot state whether they are a different entities soul (other than human) cause they cannot see themselves in any type of Astral mirror. This has yet to be done, seeing the self through your own Astral eyes.

Now from a vampi/yres point of view, without the light vs dark connotations here... I really don't think vampi/yres have a significant soul other than human. I am not really into the spiritual vampirism side of things, so I stand by my own conviction in stating that the vampi/yric condition is a physical malady. One can scope into the spiritual and prey on unfortunate victims, but this by no means lays a claim that the vampi/yre is in fact a spiritual condition.

Self realization is a good thing, through your own experiences and knowledge acquirement, perhaps a few of you will achieve that self sustaining empowerment and enlightenment for your own personal growth. Still, it remains to be seen if any of these theories are conclusive based on circumstantial evidence or evidence that cannot be submitted because it cannot be seen.

I stand by a quote from an old friend of mine, "You think you know me, but I know the truth." Thanks, Dree.

I have to respectfully disagree.

Most cultures throughout history have defined the term vampire to mean a creature or being that feeds off of human beings to sustain their own existence.
But the farther back in the vampire legacy you go the more you see them referred to as demons and other similar spirit like creatures. Reason being that demons are not fully human nor are they fully spirits. They are a mix of both (as defined in most of the documented folklore), and thrive on the spiritual energies found within other human beings. This is most commonly seen in the legends of the incubus and succubus but it is true for most of the older folklore as a whole.

What this means is that vampires for the most part do not consume energy from any form of physical digestive substance like consuming blood or flesh. In short vampires of legend fed on the spirit of others.
We today call this Spirit energy pranic energy, life force, chi, ka... but what ever you choose to call it - it means that vampirism is a psi or psionic condition.

The resent and more modern version as viewed by the blood craving undead is nothing more than literary workings written within the last few centuries; And in most real life cases can be easily dismissed as consumption.
I can assure you Vampirism is nothing of the sort and the constant regurgitation of ill informed, misguided information is the primary reason why so many have lost their way in the pursuit of the truth behind real vampirism.

I read your post, ~Severus~ and I agree with you to a certain point. You are stating the legends and myths regarding the incubus and succubus in a nutshell as well as Goetian presence and possible possession.

My point was the fact that while the Geotian can mingle with humans, they rarely if ever show their face in communication and thus claim that they are, "therian", "otherkin", "vampi/yres", etc. There is no evidence to support the reality that Geotian are among us in the vampi/yre community and if they were, again... they wouldn't gloat about their presence.

Advanced beings such as the Goetian, Enochian, and other entities that are removed from those two terms, are Dimensional Beings and thus cannot be seen by the naked eye unless they are either summoned through incantation, invoked though certain rituals and/or mantra, or other similar methods not to be discussed by me here.

On your further assumption (taking into account your convictions here), regarding other entities being born on Earth through human means, I think we could call this, "spiritual/etheral/dimensional" conception... if such a term even exists? And thus create a, "otherkin" race or species of beings that could be mingling with us, do you really think they would gloat or claim to be rather than living their lives as normal unless someone started an interesting and open minded conversation with them?

As well, if they knew what they were... Advanced Beings, do you think they would just blurt it out to the world? Or do you think they would want to get to know someone for years before even discussing the possibility of their existance to that individual?

I personally think they would know about their instincts since those are a part of them and is their nature. And being as they have a natural inclination, I don't think they would discuss their own habits or patterns to just anyone. But hey, who am I to speak for anyone, especially the Advanced Beings?

When I am near real people, they sense that something is strange about me. Their emotional reactions stimulate my sense for self-defense. After that, I start to vamp-out. Angels usually appear to handle the situation. I think vampirism can happen in successive stages, and the first stage is the Hunger. The stages do not disappear. I think psychic vampirism causes a feel of hematophagy before sanguinarian vampirism.

All "supernatural" beings were once based apon a small truth of fact in history.

There is a disease that a person has in which the person must have blood to survive. Now a days we have transfusions and ways to give blood to that person. In the ancient times (giggles wasn't quite that long ago) people had no way of knowing about diseases such as this therefore when the person drank blood to stay strong they were thought of as monsters.

Zombies, don't need history to be construed as real now a days. What with the bath salt drug and Miami zombies. however if back in the day a person had consumed a nasty batch of herb and started eating someone's face they would not have any other word for them but monster.

There have also been humans found that have been raised in the wild and taken on the traits of the animal that it was raised by. In theory there is your werewolf.

Sorry that I got off the subject but my point being that Hollywood has made a huge hoopla out of supernatural beings. Yes they can exist and I very much believe in people being able to suck others energy and enjoy drinking blood. I however do not believe that they can live forever. Therefore a vampires soul is just the same as a humans.

I also do not believe that the soul goes away when you die. I believe it goes to the place it loved best. I have seen some very strange things that I cannot explain and never will be able to.

Well, that was slightly convoluted and off topic slightly... but what is your perspective regarding the..., "what if" part of this thread?

lol yes just slightly off topic.

If vampires were these other worldly creatures I believe that they would still have a soul for all things have souls whether good or evil. I also suspect that we as humans would be living as slaves. the higher being will always rule, sad but true.

Love the "what-if" in life. That and "anything is possible."

Occording to some New-Agers, myself included, "Humans" have souls that were born when this particlar Universe was created. There are other people that have souls from other Universes and if you keep an eye out, you can notice them. There is an inner strenght that just is not there with humans, or the norms. Doesn't mean vampires, of course, but there is experience and "other stuff" that cannot be explained by living on one planet or in one life-time for that matter.

Play with the term human I guess.

I thank all whom have posted. It is great to read others thoughts on the matter.

In regard to a comment that “were an individual other than human, would it be easily revealed to any?”(paraphrase). My own personal opinion is that it would not be revealed, if ever. As it would be against survival.

Very interesting to read all shared thoughts. Thank you all.

Victorya

ShalinaChay,

Greetings, thank you for your post. This post was indeed meant for individuals to share their believe or lack, of "what if"? Nevertheless, you make a very good point.

Yet, for me to define what a vampyre, is or is not, would be folly. As no two vampyres/vampires are going to have the same set of experiences and self identification.

Indeed the post was created to engage in a sliver of individuals' speculative self perceived identification; or lack thereof. The responses from different worldviews, is fascinating. For the sake to share with others, what each feels they would share . . .

I thank you.

Victorya

What if?

Each would claim to have the soul of such which is higher than the other. One who has the soul of a vampyre would vanish as many would have a much higher form like that of the gods.

I do believe in vampires. Those who consumes blood. But they are humans, with human souls.

There is a great difference between souls, whether "vampiric", animal, or human. Humans don't have the same souls. If there were to be factual vampires, some would have the same "degree" of soul as some humans.
It depends on the individual. Some of us have a greater awareness than others. The soul's worth is beyond measure.

All in all, all souls are different, but true worth is proved in the universe after acquiring true meanings.

Soulshroude, very fascinating to have read your experiences as described by. I refer to touching things, without the use of the physical body. Thank you, for posting.

r0yaltysfin3st and BillytheJust, thank you for your great insight.

Again, the purpose of this post is not about who is "right or wrong." Rather, is to know for the sake to share what different individuals feel or not feel, in regards to the soul of a vampyre/vampire.

Without a doubt, there would be some who may or may not believe in a soul at all.

I feel that all whom have responded, have shared their right to have a theist or non-theist approach to the topic.

ContessaIsabella,

I have heard of individuals' eyes that change colors. I don't know about the topic.

I would be interested to know more. Thank you.

Victorya

There are so many things and mysterious things that happen in life that it make me often sit down and contemplate the reasons behind the question what if some answers I have formulated are that. the human brain is made to as orb vast amounts of information and knowledge and with are brain function at a fast create we often get curious about certain things so we ask our selves and ponder the unexplained what if this happened what if he or she was not there what if I did it what if what if we can all live for an eternity and the what if part of our brain will never stop working or slow down.

lamiadea. Thank you for your response. The post was intended precisely for any to give his/her thoughts. All which would dwell within the universe that is our mind. There would be some individuals that may wish to ponder these things further.

As well as, others who already have a set idea of what they believe. Yet, others may hold a perspective now and such may change over time.

Others may find that they seek to ponder on issues of “what if” simply as a desire to do so. Yet, some may not hold the desire. Or it could be said, that at present some may or may not have an opinion of “what if.” There is no “right or wrong” response to this post. All would have their own opinion. Therefore, all responses are greatly appreciated by me.

Immortality isn't exactly "living forever" as in one body for eternity. Most vampyres die and are reserrected or reincarrnated. There is a place where are spirits go its called Astral, or Kylta.

Are real vampires a different race in terms of the soul and is spiritual attainment correlated to a real vampires Desire for the occult? This is hard for me to follow, but I think I know the spirit of it and want to comment.
The groundwork for my opinion is in understanding my view of spirit. Spirit is "the unification of everything". The closest thing to this in the physical realm is the mind. It has varying degrees that unifies with the physical world around us. The five senses and the abstract mind that correlates all the information into a whole-I think what we call reality. Not to mention our own self awareness, correlating our own microcosm. So in essense our bodies' and minds' are the crystalization of spirit.
Back on point, are real vampires a different race in terms of the soul? I'd have to say yes. To me the soul is the bridge between the spirit and the physical-transitory in its link to the body, but eternal in it link to spirit. So like vamp codex mentions of many lives linked to one-it is the awakened soul that perceives many lives tied to their own. Whereas a common person would be blind to the many lives like a person blinded by daylight. And of course the awakened would perceive themselves not as individual day but a season filled with many days or maybe longer-year,decade, eon, etc.
Having that attunement with a season rather than a blinded day gives someone a different vantage in seeing things spiritully(unified). Thus the Desire for the occult and arcane which deal in the sensing and manipulation of time and space which are seen through awakened eyes as unified. You are children of the Night aren't you?

Certaintly we are different. (Vampyres) thou otherworldly it is unclear. I see things differently and often feel things differently but if they made me a science experiment I'd be ultimately human minus my blood cravings and my attitude or attachments.

I guess at the end of the day it's a matter of opinion. Questions?

Ok, here's my questions...How does one know they feel and see things differently? I mean, can one crawl into someone's mind and see and feel what they are seeing and feeling?

How is it different?

I see it through observation of those around me. That and when one is a vampyre they don't awaken the moment they are born. We have time as a human but after the change things are most certainly different.

Oh ok, you're talking about non-human vampires? Therefore, you are no longer human?

Correct. I look human and act human infront of them but in the end I am not one.

There is no such thing as a non human Vampire... anyone who tells you other wise is a role player attempting to play out a fantasy. You should trust their opinions for factuality as much as you would trust the movie or book they are attempting to act out.

Sometimes people don't understand what one is trying to say so you change it for an understanding. Many myths of vampyres are false. What defines a vampyre is their need for an alternate energy source, be it blood or energy of the living around us. We may have human bodies but we ourselves are not human. We are different. *shrugs* think what you like I suppose but I don't consider myself human. Small things no longer matter as they did to me but it's your opinion and I have no room to change it.

It's not a matter of opinion... it's in the history. It's people who watch movie and then perpetuate the falsehoods that make it impossible for the truth of what we are to make it past the stigmas.
I mean for God's sake, even the Vampires from the movies and books are still human beings.
They are either cursed or some other form of evil has allowed their body to die and then awaken as a creature of the night.
This idea is a lot of fun to play with and makes for great story telling, But that's it... a story.

If you were a real vampire you would know the history of vampirism and would know the facts of what makes a vampire what they are. This knowledge base would run a little deeper than " I feed off of stuff" or "I'm dead". Oh and lets not forget the classic vampire identifier "I'm no longer human".

People really need to stop trying to sell that story.

As I said I cannot change what you think. ~shrugs~ I am what I am, I'm alive, I breathe, I think, I see I hear, I do. But I have blood lust. I need it and I like it. Think what you like but try not to be as mad when things aren't worded as you may wish for them to be. To me it's a matter of opinion. Maybe not to you but to me it is. ~smile~ if you don't agree, fine by me but try not to be offended. Thx
Merry night

I tend to agree with severus on this for the simple principle of "Know Thyself". You have greater integrity,character, and strength of will in knowing the truth of yourself and rooted origins. As opposed to those who are loose in their interpretations and have faith in illusions. The chameleon has the power of illusion and can fool many, but some predators can see through the trick-and devour a tasty snack. The crux of this schism seems to stem from physiology to that of the soul as Victorya notes.The vampyre soul is different, but physiologically still human.

Albeit, ~Samantha's~ postings and convictions... of which I will not contradict as everyone's belief system is their own... I will state that the term vampi/yre is very convoluted and so broad that no one really can claim to be anything but a, "human" vampire. For the fact that we are all flesh and bone, do age and will inevitably die.

To be human, is to have 10 fingers, 10 toes, a tongue to speak, eyes to see and ears to hear... have judgement of character and a moral compass no matter which way it directs the individual.

That being said, it is all a matter of perspective and no one is actually right or wrong when it comes to the actual definition of the vampi/yre archetype. This debate has been going on for years.

Sure, some people can be bias and try to contradict other peoples belief systems, theories, speculations and life's experiences, but in the end. What each person experiences on all levels of communication and sensory management is their own and no one can take this away from them.

Just remember that in my perspective and life's experience, being a vampi/re is an instinctual desire to have a, "need to feed" without it mattering how or where the nutrition comes from to keep the body, mind, and soul sustained and healthy.

Further, even if the vampi/yre does have extra attributes that will remain undisclosed (the vampi/yre doesn't need to tell what our gifts are since each gift is the same but different), other like being's which will remain undisclosed (they know who they are) do slightly have the same attributes as well.

The vampi/yre is really nothing special. Neither is any other being for that matter.

I mostly agree!!
The problem isn't a persons opinion, it what other less informed people do with that opinion in turn. With all due respect not everyone is an expert and if your not sure about something then you share it in those terms, not as a matter of fact.
I'm not trying to be nasty but we have a situation where a posting went from stating as fact that they "where not human" to they "are what they are" simply because they have a blood lust.
Blood lust doesn't make you a vampire... in fact history is full of cultures who practiced blood letting and blood consumption to a fanatical levels, non of which were vampiric.

Even Father Sebastian from Strigoi Vii has recently come out (in his new book) and said that the true nature of vampirism is more about spiritual essence and energies... more of a ideology of consciousness than a sanguine aspect.
Some thing I have been saying all along.... and till I'm blue in the face.
Yes it angers me because I'm out there every day trying to stop stuff like this.
You have an honest posting where a person in real need asked a very serious question of our community and to have it answered with obvious nonsense is an injustice to her, us , and anyone else who reads this in the future. Sure calling someone out may not be what is popular, or politically correct but it is the right thing to do.

Conjecture, short term: ~Severus~, to contradict your post... with all due respect - Todd Sebastian the be, "be all end all" by any means. Anyone can write books based on certain genre of fiction or none fiction and while being very opinionated himself... he has his own path to follow and so does everyone else.

He only used the blood as a metaphor in his, "new book" because he was tired of certain lawsuits because parts of society got carried away with the practice of the, "bloodlet". He wanted the media and his, "followers" to shy away from blood and to concentrate on energy instead.

Come on people, use your heads!!

SS,

I Never said he was the be all end all... I see him as mostly a fang smith, author and to his credit co-founder. As you well know Strigio Vii constitutes one of the most popular and successful organization to date. He above most others embarrassed the Sanguine side and only in word decided to recognizing the work of people from within his own circle (of so called friends), like Michelle Belanger. For obvious reasons I won't publicly get into the inner politics that took place as a result of his actions.
My point was that when someone like him begins to embrace the spiritual/ soul side of the vampire aspect it's a profound shift. You can write it off and downplay that if you like but anyone who openly and publicly shifts their own Ideology is a change none the less.
All facts you should be well aware of...???

As for me, I am a lot more involved in the vampire community than you think and have many high level friend, of which father Sebastian is not one. Just because I choose to be involved at the ground level and not from the penthouse doesn't mean I am uninformed and if you would like to compare notes, credentials, or even friends lists then feel free to message me privately.

SammanthaWolf,

If you believe that you are not human, is your right to believe thus. As is the right of any to believe in a soul other than human or not belive it.

Certainly, I hope that you are not "intimdiated" in any way, because any may claim they have the answers, or authors that provide answers, please.

In fact, the question begs to be asked why would any accept another's persistent that they have the answer?

Please feel free to write to me.

Victorya

I won't debate as to where Todd or you (Severus) stand at any so called, "level" within the community... or who anyone knows who think they are at, "what ever level". Try to be a bit more humble next time and step off the peddle-stool.

The point regarding the, "what if" side of my conjecture that I neglected to add... was the "fact" that Todd went from actual bloodlet to blood as a metaphor, not to embrace his spiritual side, but to avoid certain legal ramifications. What if though, he did embrace the spiritual side? Would his views change? Would he write a distinct book about his experiences and would his circle embrace said book with open arms like sheep to the slaughter because they hold him in such high esteem?

This goes for anyone really, who embrace something that they need to be enlightened about.

(This post is not about negativity or drama, please do not take it out of context)

Ok, you win... I will concede.

But consider what it is you have accomplished.
This is why so many people are lost and why so many people have no real clue as to what a vampire truly is.

If you wish to take a conversation and allow obviously false information to entered as possible facts without any challenge to them simple because of political correctness and the unwillingness to offend, well then that is your choice.
But please understand that by default any serious conversation with such statements will eventually not be taken seriously. The conversation that was of high value to others becomes just another forum where lies are repeated and allowed to spread to a new group of people... we become a place less of learning and understanding of real vampirism and just another vampire freaks like social dating site. We cease to be a database for hard facts on real vampires to just another part of the problem... an endless sea of websites for people to search with nothing but garbage information.

~Severus~, alright... the podium is yours. What praytell is the point your wanting to make? What makes your words more appealing then the next person to step up to the plate?

"What if" there was a spokes person for the vampire community, would that person then become the, "be all end all" of all information within the community because they were the spokes person? And would that person have people who were advocates in their own rights, with more or less knowledge than that spokes person who would try to down grade that spokes person if they thought their words were valid and that spokes person was not?

(Vcom politics aside, cause we both may know further truths the deeper we go into the rabbit hole.)

But yes, you are correct that the more convoluted truths become from fictions being stated, out of mouths that have forked tongues either intentionally or unintentionally... may cause out of context and waning forums. Now, if those persons who weren't as naive to follow the curriculum, and knew the truths... and stated facts instead of paraphrasing in riddles and hints, the forums would be full of drama again. I don't think the Dominars, nor Cancer would want that at all.

In fact, I apologize to Cancer and the Dominars. The case being that I posted a simple post for the sake of diverse dialogue. The key word here is diverse opinions. Did I get “angry” at any that has a different opinion than mine? Of course not.

Not intended in the least for it to become that any one individual or group held a “truth or authority As such an idea would be utterly foolish to me, period.. That is to say, that this post was not intended for any to proclaim to have any sort of hegemonic” truth.”

Such a fallacious belief may lead to the possibility to usurp the opinions and utter right of others to voice their opinion in regards to the post. It would contradict entirely, the intention of the post.

Furthermore, the post is but a sliver of what I chose to reveal about a possible correlation to vampirism. . However, it is not to be understood by any that such a simple observation, as is the nature of the post, is to be taken as an all encompassing self perceived by me, of what it means to be a vampire. Far from it! Do I think that vampirism is solely related to the spiritual? No, I do not, actually.

Would I dare proclaim that I have the “truth” and that other’s do not? No! On what grounds would I do this? Why would what I believe be in any way more “important” than someone with a different opinion?

Do I think that I hold the only “truth” or any truth, actually? No, I do not. May I never come to believe such an utter folly. Do I think that each vampire has the right to choose a belief system, or not belief system, which may be atheist or non-theist, or in between.? Yes, I do.

Greetings to All,

I thank all for reading the below, “Mandamus.”

This is an effort to end any and all assumptions that may have taken place. First of all, I am relatively new to VR, but not to the VC. However, I have chosen to make it known how I feel about this matter. Solely, albeit, for I have chosen to do so.

I wholeheartedly, subscribe to the personal, and in some cases collective consensus of the VC, that there is no such thing as a group, or individual vampire, who is “better or more of a real vampire/vampire” than other vampire individuals, or vampires who may hold one or more, VC affiliations.

Thus do I respect the diversity and validity of other vampires? As well as, their right to believe or not believe, in what each chooses too? The answer is an absolute, yes I do.

In fact, shall I attempt the mere hint that “vampire X is better than vampire Y,” I would personally agreed that whatever I may say from henceforth, would be full of sound and fury signifying nothing ( With all respect, Shakespeare). As it would be no other thing than a self perceived assumption, period.

I declare that I validate any and all vampire/s right to his/her chosen path. I would be weary of any who may identify as a vampire, or any group within the VC, whether organized or not, who would even hint that he/she or any affiliation, actually, knows the “truth.” It is that simple.

If there were any misconceptions about my perspective on the matter, it has been my intent, that through this written endeavor, any and all assumed misconceptions are henceforth, dismissed.

May all remain, well. Thank you.

Victorya

I have no personal issues with you or with any other individual. I agree with your position and Yes every one of you points is correct. No one person should regulate an open forum... but if these is no overseer then it becomes incumbent on those involved to speak up and self regulate. That doesn't mean anyone person is a "know all be all" no more than it means that I or anyone else has all the answers... It's not about what's true but it is about knowing enough to spot that which is false.

My Point was that when ever someone comes on the scene and regurgitates clearly false statements it weakens our ability to truly progress the real ideologies for which we choose to govern our community with. In addition our real kin has a much harder time being who they are without ridicule from the main stream of society.
There are those who believe what is said and written, It makes them vulnerable to internet predators and those who wish to pray on their fantasies. This can and does lead to real dangers for which our community is held responsible for in the end. You speak about how father Sebastian was forced into what he did because of legal ramifications.... Ramifications of which were brought forth by outsiders who don't understand our ways just what they see and hear and yes READ!!

Do you truly believe that they will ever understand us if all they see is wild Propaganda and ridiculous statements like "I'm not Human" or "I sparkle in sun light"

Regardless of what you think of me, my actions are always with the thought of community image first and my own second. I do so because I honesty care about my kin and the vampire community as a whole. As I said I like making a difference from the ground floor and not the penthouse... that is what leadership is all about.

I fear I have upset some people. For that you have my apology.

For all to take into consideration this is a forum, we are hear to gather and debate. Share what we know, think, and try to draw conclusions from that. So in my honest opinion I don't see how anyone can expect anyone else to be an expert in any form of the word. Not all people have mentors and all the answers so draw their own conclution. Thus we have conflicting ideas.

So let us go back to the main topic......................... (I believe I just forgot the top question so,>>>) whatever the topic question is let us focus on that.

~Severus~, "My Point was that when ever someone comes on the scene and regurgitates clearly false statements it weakens our ability to truly progress the real ideologies for which we choose to govern our community with. In addition our real kin has a much harder time being who they are without ridicule from the main stream of society."

Does anyone really know truth vs falsehoods within the community as to what makes a vampire a vampyre?

"What if", half the community just follow's suite to those who think they know and have written speculative materials just to state that they are, "elders" within the community?

Based on those speculations within and outside idea's, books and the like, does this make them more experienced then the rest of the community or does that separate them into a small nit group that just wants to decompress the Hollywood mythos into a living entity that the world can associate with on a more factual basis?

Deeper, the rabbit hole goes.

Sammanthawolf,

I take the liberty to suggest that would fear not. Any who has been offended by your complete right to state what you will, in response to my post, be it so.

Shall any have been “offended” he/she/they also have the right to be upset at what any may say.

But in my opinion which is all I can offer, none have a sliver of “self perceived power” over what any chooses to believe or say. Please post what you will-if you will.

And whoever does not like it, does it matter, Sammantha? It does not matter to me if what you, or any expresses, as their opinion of “what if”, upsets any, period.

To me this is a Vampire Community. E plurabis Unum- unity in diversity. Finding a common ground in what we believe is what gives us strength as a community. But that is'nt easy. People are going to be challenged. Bei ng challenged to me can be more empowering than general well-wishing. Because you walk away thinking how can I change and become better, or stronger in your conviction. Samanthawolf doesn seem daunted so I think her conviction must be stronger- her words from previus post "Sometimes people don't understand what one is trying to say so you change it for an understanding. Many myths of vampyres are false. What defines a vampyre is their need for an alternate energy source, be it blood or energy of the living around us. We may have human bodies but we ourselves are not human. We are different. *shrugs* think what you like I suppose but I don't consider myself human. Small things no longer matter as they did to me but it's your opinion and I have no room to change it." So it seems to be defining what humanity is, is the problem. Like the original question of how the soul is different from body.

The soul is what inhibits the vessel, or body.

What if we had no vessel would we still be mortal? Or better yet will we see the differences more clearly?

Victorya: i think you hit it on the head. we are different in that our souls are different, more so than our bodies.
~W~

Outofsinc, how well stated, " To me this is a Vampire Community. E plurabis Unum- unity in diversity. Finding a common ground in what we believe is what gives us strength as a community."

SS, as always points to the main point of the matter, in an objective and non biased, way. Thank you, as this is what makes debate possible.

Sammantha, you have pondered in your last post a fascinating debate! Certainly, in my opinion, you have great philosophical insights.

Indeed we are here to engage in civil and diverse shared opinions. To borrow outofsinc's words, " unity in diversity." Which is not to proclaim that only one's opinion is valid. Truly, it is that simple.