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The more I read about black magic and magic circles, I am finding that the proper spell incantation, name of the entity you are summoning, tools (silver utensils etc) and spell related equipment seems necessary. My question to the VR family is: Why does it make any difference during the summoning to use these things? Does it focus what you already believe? Some schools of thought contend that all of this is unnecessary, that all you need is the will to command demons or spirits, that is, you do not have the will power to resist no circle or wand will help you.

I have always found in researching that the tools are primarily cerimonial in nature.

First - summoning these things is extremely dangerous if you don't know what you are doing.

Second - yes the ritual and all symbols dealing with it are ceremonial. It is a way to focus your mind and energy before you begin.

daemona- so lets say that you are right and these things are dangerous...why do it then? I mean my understanding thus far is that they will lie to you every chance they get for amusement and lead you down roads best not travelled. Seems kind of silly if you ask me.

I also forgot to ask the forum if any particular object or incantation or name is more powerful than another for the controlling of these forces, or is it as I said more of a focus kind of approach to dealing with this area of the occult and not so much the object as the will of the executor of the spell?

Honestly - I never said I would do this. I have dabbled a bit with summoning before and found it very tricky.

Also it is hard to determine if you truly have the spirit you wished to comunicate with and spirits do tend to lie. I would not reccommend summoning spirits and definately not demons!

However, I am Wiccan and the use of an athame, ceremonial dress, statues of the god/goddess are all just used to help you focus your energy. They are not necessary for performing magick, does that answer your question a little better?

Also - about the names. It is said you must know the true name of a demon to banish it.

Personally I don't meddle in these things and think they are well best left alone, I have a vid on my profile that sums up the reasons I don't go near these forces, let alone meddle with them. If you are going to do this, then I strongly suggest you get professional back up as you can get very nasty consequences.

I guess that I have a "gift" of sorts, There is one spirit that I am able to call upon at will without any rituals other than the use of some "Ninja" meditation and thinking the entities true name.

I dont have alot of experience in this field but I have friends that do and I have to agree with what is said the tools are for cerimonial purposes only

When summoning up something, your going to be dealing with alot of rules and stricture, in order to make the call reach the right, frequency, or phone number if you will, to summon up a spirit.

You have to understand the nature of the spirit so you can pull that out within yourself, You need a medium, of some sort, another person, an object, something where you can lose your consiousness and deal spirit to spirit with that entity. In order to achieve what you want,

The old grimoires are traps for causeing neophyte mages to piss of things they cant handle, and lose themselves to their own madness for not having the proper mastery over their own mind to which they can compel such demons by the holy names of some diety.

If you would compel by a deity you must be subject and bound by that deity to have such capacities. Most who play around and meet destructive ends, do not.

Well first it is very dangerous to even summons these demons or spirits .. In my opinion and that if your faith is strong enough then I also feel that any protections used will help protect you .... I myself would not want to do it I have and it scared the Shitzzzz out of me very unstable stuff, Summoning that is.
Just my opinion is all.

you must be balanced and aligned in every way, either with sympathy or antipathy to the thing you are summoning. You either call it forth, or Make your life so that it comes to you.

Sometimes when you set yourself up in life, you will become a channel for these things anyway, and need for fancy summonings do not happen. The forces you work with will manifest themselves of their own accord.

well first if you dont have a strong enough belief it wont work anyway, and the circle is for protection, either to keep something out or contain something until you are done with it. the rest use it or not is all personal. but if the belief in it is not there it is all useless anyway.

They are just tools. They can help one to focus.
Later as one is stronger and more knowledgeable, there is less need for props and pomp and circumstance.

I don't always use tools, just my energy and mind/intent is all I need. Other times I might want to get out my collection of tools and be formal in ritual.

I have always heard that knowing a demon's true name gives one a bit more power over it. It also helps summon the one you really want. Just summoning any demon might leave you in a situation where you bit off more than you can chew so to speak.

Of course, the stories and legends never end well it seems. The demons usually know the rules and their limitations better than the person summoning them so they find loopholes in it.

If you're not sure what you are doing you can accidently summon something that you might not want. I think the first few times should be done with some one with experience before trying it on one's own.

This is an area where one must walk in wisdom before even contemplating it. Like what has already been said, this can be very dangerous. I personally would use all tools and take all precautions to keep myself protected when involved in summoning demons or spirits.

Rev. Ravyn

If you're asking because you want to summon a demon or whatever I wouldnt do it. You never know what you could be releasing.

It is my humble belief that the operations of summoning or ceremonial magic be in the combination of the following:

SIGHT - The magic circle, square, triangle, vessels, lamps, robes, implements, and blood.

SOUND - The invocations.

SMELL - The perfumes and incense.

TASTE - The Sacraments.

TOUCH - All things earthly and with body.

MIND - The reflection of the significance and in spirit.

Each in and of itself without relation to the other is of no consequence.

I am not sure sorry. I tend to stay away from stuff I am not sure of and this is the biggest by far.

Well mainly it depends, for me I do not require any particular tools or special incantation, I will admit some demons and spirits need to be called by their name, other dont, soem require to use ancient runes to summon them, some ask of some ritual, like candles, certain colors, some ask for sylver or gold sand, one in perticulare even ask of me a drop of blood in order to summon him.

I guess it different for each spirtual being as there is different humans.

CryingMist - You have actually done some summoning? What more can you describe about it? Any time you ran into trouble?

Just curious,

Rev. Ravyn

This thread has turned into fearful warnings not to do such things.

If intrepid mages wish to seek out these things, then it should be for them to learn how, Not thread after thread of the same dreadful dreariness of bad things happening.

Summonings can go quite smoothly, and harmlessly. You can have several things in attendence in one setting if your good and calm enough.

Fear is not a reason to avoid it, it should be an inspiration to understand why you are afraid, and not cower and try and push your fears onto others who feel they have what it takes to try.

Fear is in the eye of the beholder, the entities you could summon, whether they be "daemons" or otherwise, are not entirely of dark nature. If the summoner thinks they are of dark nature, then this is what the summoning is.

With incantations, fear is an ingrediant as well. Emotions are a very big part of any incantation. Emotion is a conduit for manifestations, whether or not the entity actually materializes.

I personally do not rely on fear, paranoia or other side emotions when dealing with vibrations of this nature. It should not be your intent on any emotion when casting, the casting should be for purpose, not for reasoning.

I believe the fear is a manipulated response from a religious viewpoint to keep society away from knowing certain truths. But I will not dwell on this topic, as it deals with a very differant context all together.

Just know what you are doing, and prepare for what you may be dealing with when it comes to the entities of the ethereal. Not a warning, just common sense. There is way more out there than meets the minds eye.

So let me say that hypothetically I plan to do this. Some say no need to use the utensils/names/etc, some say yes you should or at least have someone who has done it before present.

Let me just be blatant about it. Who in VR reading this thread has actually summoned and conversed with demons/devils/spirit? And if you did, what method did you use?

My point in creating this was to see if any of these things are even necessary to ask questions of these beings. As to protection, well let’s just say I have a means of accomplishing this and let that rest with a pointer to the most powerful name. And no I am not going to say which one.

For those who say to leave it alone, I think that as was said, live and learn. I am losing my religion and it is time to put up or shut up as far as spirituality go for me.

No more playing house, it is time to build the damn thing or walk away with it in flames in the rear view mirror.

There is a story I heard sometime back that went like this.

There once was a bad man on the gallows with fellow bad men about to be hanged. A priest came to the first and asked him to recite the Lords prayer. He did and was hanged. This happened over again until he got to this last man. The man replied "hell no preacher, if I believed in hell I would have walked across the land on my knees telling people to repent". With that he was hanged.

I come from a Judeo-Christian background and am losing faith. Mostly because of bad men within the church or at the very least bad leadership.

There is only one group who can answer definitively, fallen angels. My only question to them will be "Why would you rebel, knowing that all power and all beauty and all knowledge belonged to the living God only to follow his creation and your brethren?"

So there it is.

THE REVELATION OF ST JOHN THE DIVINE

1:3 "Blessed is he that readth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand"

I have to agree with a lot of these responces . Summoning Demons is not a wise or smart thing to do . Unless you are very experenced with this , cause once you summon one you may never be able to send it back .

It's best not to ask such questions. It is best to remain ignorant of such things. When you study evil, evil studies you.

Evil has known mankind and his wiles since his creation (or evolution) so there is no fear in me of it learning anything new from me. If what I read is right, then the angels taught mankind magic anyway, bred with them (if the giant stories are truth) and act as messengers (so the dissemination of information is nothing new either). That being said, the physical manifestation of angelic beings or spiritual entities in a visible form is what I seek and answers I will get. My only concern was whether the implements were necessary or not from those that have delved into this arena before.

I am not a person who just says "lets do this", I am more of a "let's do this" and then does it, kind of person. I have 'done' the faith alone thing, I have not seen any miracles or any manifestation of God's power, I will have it from His creation if they exist since He seems to be so silent on the matter. If the source will not speak to me then his spawn will, in His name. I will bind them in heaven as well as earth, in His name. I will have my answer, once and for all time, or die trying. It is my only recourse in this spiritual walk.

So no more drama from me and I have my answer, I think. The tools are just a focus, it appears. And names are important to a degree. The main thing is will though, the internal force to stay on point and like a pitbull not let go until it is done.

Thank you one and all.

Bard out.