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Kontradiction
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22:31:46 May 12 2008
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As a Vampire, do you have certain Ethics involving your feeding habits?

If so, please explain.



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DeargDueFiachra
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00:25:10 May 13 2008
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Never feed off anyone who doesn't want you to. As a Sang vampyre taking without asking is never a good idea. I feel that if i am to feed i need to make sure that they are of consenting age and are free from disease that way no one is going to be harmed in the processs.



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BloodxXxOverDose
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00:38:08 May 13 2008
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in feeding ethics "safety" is very important in having a donor that does not have anything that can be translatable though blood.

feeding usually not by biting but either by syrenge or but a X cut with a sharp blade but not where it flows to much.



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Isis101
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01:39:31 May 13 2008
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the Black Veil by Michelle Belanger has guidelines, right?



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Marix
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02:50:09 May 13 2008
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Yes Isis, all modern vampires should follow the Black Veil.
If you would like to read them, you can find them on Google.



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Kontradiction
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03:36:02 May 13 2008
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Marix, and why is that?

Could you give some "reasons"? I most certainly do not follow any sort of Black Veil Code myself personally.



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JackofSpades83
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03:45:13 May 13 2008
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Personally, I don't feed at all. I would think that some sort of guidelines would be need for reasons such as safety and just common decency. I don't exactly like the idea of a group of anarchic feeders running around.



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PipersBloodLust
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03:55:44 May 13 2008
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Choose your donor wisely, do not choose someone who will overpower you



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dabbler
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04:00:52 May 13 2008
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Assure your prospects are sounded out with a secret less likely to astonish them, and see if they can keep it (even sending a tempter to them to try to loosen their lips) other wise you may find yourself being rumor milled to death.. I mean torpor..



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Kontradiction
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05:06:07 May 13 2008
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i'm a psy vamp, so feeding for me is based upon drawing forces from nature itself. i would think that finding a blood donor would take quite a bit of work. lots of communication, and someone totally open to the concept of having their blood drained from them.



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Whispersinthewind
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05:40:13 May 13 2008
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Ethics? I only have one ethic involving "feeding habits"...I don't talk about them. Like I have said time and time again, talking about your "feeding habits" is like talking about what happens in the bedroom...It just doesn't happen.



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Aronoch
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05:43:06 May 13 2008
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The posting above is very accurate. We are very careful and caring about those we invite into our lifestyle. It is an involved process and consensual.



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xNyxxGoddessx
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05:56:24 May 13 2008
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I agree with Soulshroude as well. Some things should not be common knowledge.



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Kontradiction
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06:17:22 May 13 2008
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i posted this Thread as a curiosity. i am sure some talk freely about this, while others hide and cloak themselves.



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lavisbre
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06:18:17 May 13 2008
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In the past iv been rather crass with my angles on most topics.
I feel our feeding is personal and does need to go underground more.
I know before I was more of the understanding that we need to be open to help more like ourselves who may be attracted to this site…………



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JackofSpades83
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07:07:51 May 13 2008
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I can understand why some choose not to divulge their personal practices because some are simply on this site for fun and/or curiosity. However, if everyone had this opinion how would you go about learning more about the subject? I mean in a more personal sense. Simply referencing books and codes sounds like dogma to me.



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lavisbre
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07:14:21 May 13 2008
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Yes but one must start with something don’t you think…. We need a bar or a standard so the vampire codex is a good start I feel.



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UMBRAxDExVIR
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07:39:43 May 13 2008
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Swans
We in Noctem Aeternus are to have two Swans and a mate,
but this is your choice and not the choice of your mate.
You can not hide this from your mate.
Screen your Swans.
Let them understand they have to be clean.
Because it is not merely their health at risk,
but the health of the rest of the house as well.
When feeding sexually use protection.
Know that feeding is not only sexual!
When feeding from Blood makes sure the donor is clean.
Never feed from the ill, elderly or young.
Never feed from some one else's swan without their permission.



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Kontradiction
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07:44:35 May 13 2008
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thank you for sharing. i think that by sharing knowledge is gained. that is why i was wondering if some here, would share; not to disrespect, but to learn and help others learn.



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Whispersinthewind
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09:45:39 May 13 2008
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It is not that I am delegating whether or not this issue should or should not be spoken about openly...The point I was wishing to make, is the fact that ALL truebloods, whether "awakened" or not, have a certain instinct about the ways of "feeding"...Which is why it is so important that each of us learn our own ways.

That and the lifers always wish to fish for information regarding things they want to join out of pure wonderlust.

(Of course, not saying you are a lifer Kontradiction...I know better than this.)



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Bdsprotector
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14:51:46 May 13 2008
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openly i feed from anyone most of the time with consent unless i am apsolutely in danger of my own well being and that is the only time i feed without consent and it's usually on an animal or something so that no person is harmed



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Kontradiction
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19:33:19 May 13 2008
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indeed, soulshroude, i knew what you meant.

but see i also was using gifts before i knew that they were when i was a very young person.

so i am apt to agree that, feeding instinct are natural for those that truly "are".



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meeper
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19:37:49 May 13 2008
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I have heard mention of the Black Veil and using the Vampire Codex as a start point of universal ethics among vampires when it comes to feeding, but I question how many truly have read or abide by those written words.



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Kontradiction
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20:00:56 May 13 2008
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it's as it has been said here one too many times....anarchy abounds in this society i do believe. many just go off and do their own thing.



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UMBRAxDExVIR
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20:02:10 May 13 2008
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Soulshroude well said, but on the other side there are some of our kin out there who may look for other ways to get what they need. some who just take with out asking and if they see some of our ways they may learn how to feed with respect and honor for others.



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Kontradiction
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20:05:30 May 13 2008
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i think that education and a chance to learn a better option, is what will bring some into the light here on this Site. after all, this Site is a repository for all things Vampire...and that included feeding, i am sure.



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meeper
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20:14:45 May 13 2008
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But is one groups feeding philosophy ultimately better than the others? It almost sounds pretentious to believe that only people who ascribe to a certain moral code can be true vampires because frankly I do not put much stock into books that I cannot vouch for the authors or the type of research that has been done.

Chaos and anarchy might well thrive in the vampire community and if it is the case, the dominate method would not be one of academia and high regard but the one that is regularly used.



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Kontradiction
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20:21:41 May 13 2008
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there's no one solid set view. i think it is fair to approach this as Buckley would say, on the Occult. all of his books have a basic Disclaimer in the beginning that says "follow your instincts, find the books and the Path that works for you".

sound advice, and easily transferred here.


collect your knowledge from far and wide, then find what works for you.



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SpellOnU
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01:04:52 May 14 2008
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I PREFERE TO STARVE THAN FEED BY SOMEONE I DON'T REALLY LIKE.
IT'S NOT JUST BLOOD, IT'S PURE ENERGY YOU LET INSIDE AND I DON'T RISK IT.



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meeper
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03:08:32 May 14 2008
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Starving people do desperate things... and if it is a true need then my guess is that at some point it won't matter who you feed off of so long as you feed.



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Kontradiction
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05:47:15 May 14 2008
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i think that you're misinterpreting this; i think that it is a metaphorical starvation. we're not talking about the "desperate acts" of people, we are discussing feeding habits here.



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Whispersinthewind
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06:54:35 May 14 2008
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~Meeper~ Seems to me by interpreting your posts, you thrive on conflict. Or are just blatantly misunderstanding out of pure ignorance. No offense.

As for the "black veil" and or "vampire codex", these two subjects of "education" are a guideline for "those subject of naive thought." Again, no offense.

Follow which ever way you feel, nothing is ever be all end all. If you prefer to follow apparent guidelines, so be it...Be the elitist. If you feel as though you are governed by yourself alone, then by all means be that "lone wolf".

Advice is always a factor in every aspect, does not mean that some of that advice given is good advice, follow what you conscience allows to you within your best judgement.



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meeper
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07:41:22 May 14 2008
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We are an eclectic group and just because you do not see feeding as an act of desperation does not mean that others agree. The whole point of the forum is to discuss and give alternative viewpoints. Pure ignorance or blatant misunderstandings- how about looking at it from another angle? It is quite possible that some view feeding as chaotic and disregard “educational” material.

You seem to have no problem agreeing that there are multiple paths, so why pick a fight with someone who is merely responding to the “I’d rather starve than feed off someone I dislike.” If the energy or blood is an actual need –which many on here claim it is – than of course eventually you would break down and feed off of anything as a survival mechanism.

I was under the impression that one of the purposes for the forum was to discuss various vampire topics and naturally people have differing opinions and not to label intervals as ignorant- particularly on subjects where there are no true right or wrong answers.



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Kontradiction
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08:14:37 May 14 2008
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meeper, this is merely an information gathering forum.

goddess knows i admire you, but you jump to dispute in every answer you give. i am not here to claim empirically that one path is best over another, nor would i sit and refute what has been written in hundreds, if not thousands of books, citing probably as many, different "styles" and "codexes/laws".



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meeper
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08:33:59 May 14 2008
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My responses merely are discussions to different ethics people have and highlighting the extremes to point out there are no such universal ethics in place for such a diverse community.

Pardon me but I do take offense when I am blatantly called out as being ignorant or misinformed on a topic that I am versed in. Combative is using words to attack a person and not the idea. I am on the defensive side and not the offensive in this thread.

If the thread is to find a cohesive group of morals or ethics on feeding it requires discussion and not just passive statement.

If the Black Veil and the Vampire Codex are norms- how secretive is the feeding if the topic is discussed on cable by the very author and VR maintains an international fellowship of over 10,000 members. The argument is that it is hypocritical to think that we are to hide our psy or sang tendencies from a world that is all to familiar with vampires due to our own incursions.

I stick by the question that if it is truly a physiological need, will we be able to make conscious decision about who and how we feed from?



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Kontradiction
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08:39:33 May 14 2008
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i never said that and do not believe that that was said of you here. if you are referring to me when you say this, you are frankly highly incorrect.



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meeper
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08:49:36 May 14 2008
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No hun it wasn't directed at you lol



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SexyIceGoddess
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10:20:23 May 14 2008
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there are times that it is really hard to not just jump on some one when you can smell their blood in the air and you have not fed in a while but yeah it sucks it takes a lot of will power and some of us don't really have it



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Whispersinthewind
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10:57:17 May 14 2008
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Oh to be mired in mudd. ~Meepers~ retaliant posts were directed my way. Though, since it is normally my way to be the out right blatant individual, I do not post to verify others "faults". But to gain an understanding of where the individuals stand and where their points of view lay regarding discussions. I do not test your convictions ~Meeper~ I was counting on them.

As far as certain Authors of books, within or outside the dark community, there really is no authoritive figure that stands high over any other individual. Just because they write books, does not mean they know everything about anything. Though they may be quite adept to certain concepts...They are still not the be all end all within any community, as well...Should not be looked upon as such.

I do agree that these forums are doorways for the process of information, does not mean it is to be taken to heart. Post what you must, what you will, when you feel the need.

If someone disrespects any other individual, there is no real reason to argue over it. (Babbling on here.)

Seems that most within the dark community seem to always be linguring on a notion about "elders" or "authoritive" figures that shine above or out of the community. Even though these individuals clasify themselves as "elders" or whathaveyou, does not mean others "under them" have less knowledge then they.

I do not argue about the "feeding" habits of others, do what you will. I just feel the need to speak when nessessary, as per my convictions.

(There be no high horses here.)

Just seems to be the same arguementive discussions over and over again. *shrugs* such is the way of things I suppose.



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Necromicon
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13:49:33 May 14 2008
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You need permission to feed first,
if they do not know or do not want you to,
than you shouldn't.
I can't take someones blood without them knowing,
it just isn't right



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greyinmind
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17:53:37 May 14 2008
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yes, vampires have a code of ethics when it comes to feeding. i personally believe that everyone has a code of ethics, be it strict of lax.

a really good place to look is the vampire codex. it's been mentioned a couple times here and it truly is worth the read. they outline a great many topics, from feeding to energy assimilation.

while blood drinking is mainly frowned upon today it used to be more acceptable a couple decades ago. from what i understand the HIV/AIDS epidemic had a lot to with the mainstream view on blood drinking. it is not considered the norm anymore. many more vampires choose to do what is called energy feeding, which is basically one vampire feeding on the energy force of another person. the important thing with this is consent. both parties must be conscious of the event and agree to it. if this interests you, you should check out this site from the vampire codex. basic feeding (hope that link works.)



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AtreyuDraconis
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18:23:14 May 14 2008
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What do we call ethical? Would having a donor be a ethical thing? This im curious about if someone has a thought on that



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UMBRAxDExVIR
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18:31:18 May 14 2008
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yes that would be



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AtreyuDraconis
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18:35:04 May 14 2008
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This i thought it would be unless it was forced upon the person



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STABB666
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18:55:01 May 14 2008
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Kontradiction,

In this thread's opening question, you asked if vampires, particularly here, have a code of ethics and if not, why not?

What I have yet to see though, are details of the standards to which you yourself hold, which is curious, since you do seem to have very forthright opinions about others' methods.

What 'rules' do you set for yourself, if I may ask?

I do also have a similar questioning as does meeper, in wondering why one system is supposedly so superior to any other, or even my own.

Are there comparative studies? Doubtful, since it has has been mentioned, most who do 'feed', keep their own methods quite private.

It does strike me as odd that someone who has a driving need, like an insatiable craving, would be capable of holding themselves in check. It would take some considerable mental fortitude to achieve. And given that the longer a person goes without, the weaker they are physically and mentally, so there must come a 'tipping point', where it is an act of instinctual reaction to the hunger.

It is a concern for certain vampires, who hold to a perspective of 'do no harm', that they may end up in this state, which for me, is a valid 'feeding habit', which is what you clearly state that you are looking to find out more about.

I too feel the pretension apparent in many of the responses here, particularly from those who might dismiss the questioning of an individuals' ability to maintain a set standard.

Just because a certain reference is used to highlight an example of behaviour, it does not limit the understanding of other potential influences upon a persons actions to 'none'.

It seems to be rather hypocritical to levy criticism towards someone for looking outside of the prescribed methods, by telling them to look for their own path.

No-one, I am sure, is arrogant enough to claim that they have all the answers, but there will be those who impose themselves upon a culture and shape its direction. Newcomers to the scene will often look for those popularist ideas, and then base their future learning from a common standpoint.

So while it might be sensible to leave the options open for one's own personal development, everyone has to start somewhere.

The question is, who will get their ideas more widely spread and accepted than others?

Whose concepts will live and whose will fade?

Belanger can certainly be credited with spreading a far-reaching net in her House's quest to find their own, but at the same time, the closer one gets to the ideal of their system, the more specific the requirements become.

Those who don't fit (the vast majority), will end up already having their perceptions of what being a vampire means limited, by the time spent learning the information taken in during the process of investigation.

It then becomes increasingly difficult to break down those mindsets and open them up to more liberal understandings. In which case, merely stating to people 'find your own path', is a bit of a waste of time and contributes nothing towards the actual furthering of that path.

It's a cop-out answer for those with few of their own and really only leads to confusion, since many will be left out in the cold by the structured system that they've come to depend on, before being told to make it up for themselves.

Subsequently, we find gatherings of the like-minded in places like VR and other forums, where information is sought, but so too is discussion of that info. Forums are not just a place to gather knowledge, but to impart it. Using it as a place just to take, is quite selfish if a person has the wisdom to say something which can help. But at the same time, the morality of providing what can be harmful to someone comes into question.

The trick is finding a balance that not only can our consciences live with, but that people can respect.



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Kontradiction
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19:51:02 May 14 2008
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Stabb,

Thank you for your input.

I never started this Thread with a set "desire" to share what rules i might have, if any: I merely started it to glean information. I did state higher up in this Thread, that one of the best approaches seemed to echo the suggestion of Buckley, a rather well-known author on the Occult...gathering information far and wide and using it as you see fit, hence an "information-gathering" Thread such as this.

I do not state, or agree, that any one "set" way is correct. nor, do i care to "splay" my insides open and "share with the crowd" what i do in my own personal "business".


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UTAHVAMP
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20:50:53 May 14 2008
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I only feed on those who are willing, I beleive it is disrespectful to take from one without permission, however this can be trying at times.



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STABB666
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21:59:25 May 14 2008
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Kontradiction,

I have not said that there was any reason for you to have posted this thread, than those you have already stated. What I have asked, is if you would be willing to share your own opinions on the subject, just as you have asked others to do.

As you have answered my query negatively, I can only assume that you have no desire to share, which is fine, at least now I understand clearly your intentions in this matter.

Ethics and morality play a huge part of the decision making process of the vampire who has a conscience. It is right and proper that you would want to gather as many other views as possible to help develop your own.



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Kontradiction
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22:10:36 May 14 2008
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i didn't start this Thread to gather information for myself; i started it to gather it for the largesse of The Rave.

i honestly do not want to give insight into myself and my practices as i largely am rather private in most of my affairs.

i share as needed, and that is not said in malice, or ill-intent, Stabb.

you are one of the more advanced Thinkers on this Site and i do not wish to offend you. i truly apologise, if you feel that i have.

however...

i feel, that my intent has been misunderstood in this Thread; the Thread wasn't started for my own "ethical" intent (or lack thereof) to gain insight for myself, i merely posted for information-gathering to encourage feedback and general discussions.

thank you.


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STABB666
STABB666
Superior Sire (140)
Posts: 1,517
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of The House of La Bella Oscuridad
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
22:19:42 May 14 2008
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Kontradiction,

Your response is indeed one of contradiction. If the purpose is to gather valued information for the benefit of others, on how the ethical standards of feeding are met, then would it not be generous of you to 'start the ball rolling', as it were?

As you have invited people to have their say, it does seem something of a shame that those who have given some great contributions here, have effectively been told they are not welcome.

At what point is an opinion valid in this circumstance? When it agrees with yours, theirs, the consensus, or the fringe?

Who's rules are more appropriate, in your opinion, when considering 'feeding'?

I'm just really very curious to see if you agree with the strict compliance to dogmatic 'pillars', or if you prefer a more amoral route, or perhaps somewhere in between?

I suspect it's in between, since you said that you'd take a little of this and a bit of that. All I'm wondering, is a bit of what and a little of which. Not too much to ask in a debate about any subject, let alone one which deals with potential harm and intimate experiences.



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Kontradiction
Kontradiction

No Longer Registered
22:58:02 May 14 2008
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i am closing this Thread because it is starting to mimic a "sandbox fight".

thank you all, for contributing.

carry on....


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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by Kontradiction on May 14 2008  •

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