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What is this incessant need some seem to have to fracture things into disagreeable components......I mean I keep reading in profiles who is a member of this house or that coven......it seems to me that many of us came into this lifestyle due to the cliques we were subjected to.....you'de think that would teach us something about fractitiousness....
why can we not just say we are all part of one grouping instead of giving warnings about this or that house....and threats concerning how protective you are of your "houses"
me I am protective of only a few things....my friends...an ever changing list
my love....those who bother to look know who I mean
and my ideals.....
the concept of these "houses" is little better than the idea that a street gang is a positive thing...for at their base that is truly all they are is a gang.
and now I will put of my bomb unit blast armor and wait for response

i suppose it provides a sense of belonging.

I don't belong to anything.. only to myself

♥

nice thread

thank you.....I realise some people feel the need for tight little groups...but they tend to fracture and damage the site as a whole....like divergent religions...starting from one good idea....and then branching to eventually claim that their way is the only way...
and that others are wrong
it vexes me

It is a sense of belonging. Look at the way people are categorized in high school. You have your freaks, preps, jocks, nerds, etc. It is trying to find to find a place to fit in. That is my guess. I hold many titles in my life, (mother, wife, sister, aunt, cousin, etc.,) and the only house I protect with my life is my home with my family in it. I do not believe all the gang related crap. Gangs are not for me.

I guess it's to feel like you belong to something. I never fit into any of the "cliques" or groups or what have you, so I dont quite get it either. I am who and what I am. That's that. I feel we should all be a "clan" together, more like a family than a pecking order.

I belong here at the Rave, my second family. =^-^=

Wonderful point.

I'd like to compare, if you'd please; to Catholics, Christians, Methodist, Protistant, Jehovah Witness, Morman, Roman Catholic, Baptist....etc etc etc.

My point to this is quite simple, it is the whole we look at, but yet it is human nature to break and tear things apart. Either intentially or not. Does it not sound familiar; "We are the ones right! You are doing it wrong! How dare you compare our way to yours!"

Strikingly familiar isn't it?

I was a Mother to one of the Clans which became an acknowledged house. House Nocturne. "Amor Nocturmus Et Morus." "Love of the dead and night."

Gladly I gave the reigns to my son, in a nutshell I was nothing more than a babysitter and a peace maker. Putting out baby dramas between clans, until those involved between the cities forgot the whole point of where the beginning was and the ideals.

Poohey on you! For thinking that you can take dramas from high school and bring them into a place where we all are supposed to feel safe, the freakish gothic ones.

*wink. I'm more than a pretty face.

Just my two cents.

thank you lillian for that input......
I have been asked by numerous so called House leaders...to either join them or who I am with...that is what sparked this posting.....
there is enough fracturing in the world as is...I come here as a place to get away from that garbage.....
but for those who thing these houses mean fellowship....look into the history books.....both civil and religious wars....they all started as fringe groups clanning together out of a sense of brotherhood......and all ended in argument and bloodshed
be yourself.....not a smaller part of some whole ran most likely by a fool who knows little more or even less than yourself about life.
damn I get bitchy when tired

I don't get the people too who when you read their profile, they say "I don't like labels, I don't follow anything ... yada yada yada" then they write I belong to such and such house or so and so is my master, or my this or that. Is that not placing a label upon themselves?

That is very true Dami. Most people like it has already been stated do this instectivly. I find I group myself with other that are like me or close enough that I can stand to be around them. I mean I joined here to be with other "outcasts" or "people who veiw things differntly". I do believe I have found that place. I learn more about myself and others while I'm here. I think I have grown a bit in just the few months that I have been here. I don't understand the houses and clan thing and honestly I am glad I don't. For in time I would see things through their (the house or clan) eyes. This is what I don't want. Ok I'll shut up now cause I think I forgot my point.
*wonders off*

true true....for one to be a house....separate from others as it were....one has to restrict onesself to the rulings of said house....or there is no reason to join...as without some separation from others what would be the point...
the problem is after a while you do begin to see things through your houses filter....and not your own
I like to think those of us in VR have smashed our rose colored glasses.....these houses seem to me to be putting on of blood tinted glasses...I prefer the world without the filters.

I think the need for Houses/families/clans may stem from a need to belong, it does seem valid.

One must also consider, that although there are many similiar creatures here, all our likes and dislikes, lusts and desires are very, very different. A brood of individuals with similar interests and tastes are bound to group together...within this collective, the strongest member is oft responisible for considering how his/her congregation might be represented, to allow for others to return to a flock of like creatures.

Is it wrong for a person to take pride in their House? For all that the group alloits them, for how they are looked upon within the group, (and yes) how one feels they belong? You call it "self-categorizing". The general gathering on this site would say they hate to be labeled. Sincerely, I hate being called Goth.

I choose what House/family/clan I belong. By choosing honestly, the coven is taylored to my goals, my exsistance, my experience. The group assists and supports.

And likewise, the group allows for the luxury to interact with like-minds, and not simply the masses (who may be offended, degraded, or hostile to that collective of like-minds).

Best of all?

Inclusiveness can be glorious.

Good thread.

My two cents on this though............Houses are made for those that need to feel they belong. I was in one....a long time ago.
They used force to keep people under the control of the so-called leader, and used force to make others listen to them. I laugh at them now, though it makes me an enemy to them, they live in the real world, but do not step out of the castle they built around them. (Sorry if I am confusing people)

I don't believe in Houses/Clans anymore.

Er...

...forgive the double-post.

Great topic, Daermon. Much appreciation and respect, good sir. Props, if you will.

::chuckles::

hehe thanks for the kudos
I have been quite verbal in here about my feelings on these houses.....but this is only MY opinion...I really do wish to hear from those who are currently in these houses....as for me this is a psychology question as much as anything.....
I am against them myself....but wish to try to understand the idea...
I am open to others views on it...

very clear.....
you seem to have found a group that suits you very well....most I have talked to though were bullied into compliance after the fact of entry...and most people are not mentally strong enough to argue with one who is a more alpha personality type.....
I am glad you found a more accepting group....
part of where the idea bothers me is a few times I have had disagreements with people in houses and recieved nasty msg's from other members of the house...
these agruments had little or nothing to do with them.... therefore in my eyes they should have left well enough alone.....
there is a point where you are defending friends....and there is a point where you are sticking your nose where it isn't wanted.

That line is frightfully thin in some cases......

tilting off to defend every friend or house member whom is slighted is doing them a great disservice....

your removing their right to deal with it themselves in the maner that they wish to deal with it.....

I think it's a subtile form of a labotomy or is that a bottle in front of me I always get those two mixed up

*bump*

Interesting reading.

I am still thinking on this topic and will post later; I simply wanted it back on the front page.

I think you have a point, but in a way on this site we are making oursleves belong. But I think your right, it is in some sences unnecessary.

I may belong to a certain group, but that doesn't mean I segregate all others from myself. It's simply a sense of belonging is all.

I think it should be examined that there are many types of people, so that it can be understood that some types will not mesh well with other types, alpha personalities will clash when superiority is threatened, friends will make an ass of themselves to defend someone dear to them. This happens inside or outside the collective of a house/family/clan. To consider it soley a result of the brood mentality is err.

Truly I feel this is a question of acceptance...not simply of personal acceptance, but of unconditional and open acceptance. To understand some people are individuals who require solitude in order to remain balance, while others require a outward presence that all eyes are drawn to that individual. And yet still, these individuals must still accept those that know solitude, revel in solitude, yet know you cannot play chess by yourself, but hate to spread attention thin. Acceptance and open, of all human quality.

Whoa...talk about ramblings of the inane!

Yes! *bows* thank god someone said something. What is with that constant desire to be a part of something? Everyone is fine enough on their own. It's just sad.... Any way though ehehe

here's my two cents:

Everyone is referring to a sense of "belonging" which is understandable in a world where goths/vamps/etc aren't very accepted in todays society....but as one of few respectable American Presidents said, "A house divided can never stand"....or something to that effect. So why, then, are we vampires and goths fighting amongst ourselves to defend our "clans?" Why aren't we standing together, as one family, one subculture, nay, one CULTURE, to keep eachother welcome in the world? If we insist on fighting with some part of society, shouldn't we fight those were are against our beliefs instead of fighting those with the same beliefs, but who are under a different name?

*bow* Rant over.

much I learn from these the ramblings of my fellow man/woman....
I begin to grasp the rationale behind this mentality...I will never follow it...but I do beging to understand....

I dont like walls in the way. Here everyone is very open and seems like a big room of friends. I will say sometime I feel I am on the outside looking in but thats just me and I always been that way. I really dont need a clan just friends.

this was about to fall off...pardon me whilst i bump >:)

i have never belonged to a house/family and i didn't care for it cuz its was like if we could agree on what to do or where to go no one was allowed to do anythin and they had a watch on everyone.. unless ur tieng me up or ur gonna do something i like i sure aint taking orders if ur gonna watch me take a picture it lasts longer and i hate cameras so good luck getting a picture.

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to belong and have friends/family.
I think there is something wrong with letting one person dictate to you what to do, not to do, etc.

Everyone needs to feel welcome, needs to belong..........but at what cost?

Interesting thread here, thanks for the stimuli.. I have to wonder who decides how to start a house/clan/group? What are the *qualifications* ( for lack of a better suited word) for a Leader? Just curious. I am in control of my own mind so this idea does not interest me on a personal level but rather on a research level.

*stands and claps* Wonderful rant, darkling. you do have quite a valid point...we should be trying to work together as one than fighting and arguing amongst ourselves because we stand under different banners.

yes stragella...it started as an annoyance with a few people in one household....but now it seems like good research material to me....

I would like to address that the One-World Order mindset is futile. No matter how loud you yell Peace, you will not cure war, distrust, social status, hypocricy, and deception (as history clearly shows us). Whenever you have a small group of people with a profound idea, anyone not of the same mind will fall to the side and either envy the group or find a collection of more similiar minds. Of course, one can also try to emulate the members and attempt to fit-in to the congregation, accepting the collective rules (weak-mindedness is not a product of the brood mentality).

In short, once again, the friction between people and the hate-mongering is not the result of the brood mentality. Even in a harmonious enviroment with complete acceptance of ALL equally, people will still break into clichés as complementary minds come into contact with others...grouping with individuals that assist in reaching like goals.

{I had a dream once, of an expansive dark tower, inwhich all flags were hung from it's creast as if metals of honor, won in battle. As I stood there at the churning earth, this tower grew, taller and in girth, but never pressed at my feet. The tower was glorious as it was dark...a wonder that belittled every wonder before it, every monument that human breath was captured by forgotten by the tower's sheer radiance.

That is when I heard quiet fall upon the face of the world. A dreadful hush...an unnerving solitude, indicative of the grave. I turned from where the earth was broken, in the shadow of the tower...

...the world was as it once was: without light. And I smiled, although I woke in a cold sweat and a fevered shiver.}

If you are still reading at this point, surely you think me mad. I am alright with this, because, honestly...at times, I question my own sanity (as well as yours). I mention this now, as I speak upon the memories of how a House is raised...as warning or reference point, you decide.

There was never a time when one individual did not revel in being...better::growls at the word::...than another. Better to mean stronger, smarter, richer, more powerful, et cetra. Even before that, consider within the animal world based on a purely instictual mind-set, the dominate always led the pack and ensured the brood safety. Here, we prove that to seperate and group, raising the stronger to lead is instinctual, not simply a frailty of the human condition.

The first part of a "House" is the dominate mind. In this individual is found the strength of conviction found in self-awareness and ferocity of loyalty to what is [his/hers]. I will not continue this individuals traits, as they vary...but invariably, this individual makes amazing sacrifices, so amazing at times, one can do nothing short of endure or simply be destroyed. Clearly, you see though, why this individual is the "leader" (so to speak). However, this individual by [himself/herself], a House does not make.

The truth behind the raising of a House falls into motivation and intent. No building will stand upon a faulty foundation, nor will a House without a virtuous heart. That, I will leave for you to explain for yourself.

here we get to the very cener I was seeking...the virtuous heart of the household......a fine idea......my point against this concept is against the reality of what 99% turn out to be.....the virtuous heart of the idea would fall in that other slim 1%...most turn to petty bickering amonst themselves and other houses/clans....and I said MOST...not all....
you cade appear to have found a very good group.....I hope others interested in this concept fare so well.....

That 1% you speak of, Daermon, seems to be the the death of House. The very idea passes away to obscurity with every new House that raises (or falls). I have seen as the years turn, the very idea of "alternative" (I have never like the connotation of that, noting that it is different from the 'Norm', which the very idea of seperate and group has always been in effect, by instictual rights) collectives drop from the notion of consideration.

Before I continue on, I would like to point out that I am in no way, shape, or form is there ONE way alone to raise a House. I am not speaking of clans, guilds, or covens, for the idea with these are different entirely. As there are many ideas of thoughts, there are many ways to consider the House foundation. The way I have given is but ONE way, and although it is right for me and mine, it may not be right for all. And that is alright.

Where I am going with this is simple slide-of-hand. Fearful, I tell you Daermon, most will not fare well. There is little-to-no information concerning Houses, as it is, by all right, very inclusive and secretive (as you can imagine). Couple that with how few Houses there truly are and how few of those are even considering taking inductees, I think you will agree with my defeatist foresight.

I agree totally.....those that work well are very few and far between.....and there are many who will try and fail.....
but to those that work.....all the best in your endeavors...
to those who are failing miserably....take off your rose colored glasses and see things as those on the outside looking in do.....

survival of the fittest..... when you are momentarily weakened you need a strong suport system to make sure you survive the morrow. But the weak also weaken the clan ect.. it's a catch 22

Are we all not but that Vampire Rave Clan here then???? >;^}

very true dami i mean if u really think about it we are one.

yes the rave is like a big family....which is why I originally questioned the need to fracture it further...
but it's beginning to get a broken record sound in here...thank you all who contributed...it has taught a lot...especially Ladylillian and Cade....nto to disaprage the rest...but I felt their answers made the whole point of this forum...this is my final .02$ on the matter
thanks all

I agree, although is does give a feeling of belonging and enforce a feeling of "bonding" with those in your group/house/clan it is only separating you further from people who arent in your group/house/clan

Gang as defined by law
2 or more people gathered together in one place
I am of no ones gang
i affliliate with other nut cases so that i dont look or feel so crazy!

The only clan or house i belong in is the one i created for my kids. That's good enough for me. *smiles*

dunno... i am my own gang thats as far as it goes here.

Hey Amethyst dragged me in does that mean i am family ?

Hmmm if you have MPD can you be a gang of one?

id join the lefaye clan for sure *winks*

LOL
The Abagails - Family LeFaye

bit off topic but thank you ~wing~

A family is a stregnthening rather than a lessening Daermon

Adding a tie that cannot be broken other than by death.....

I just can't believe it's not butter.

PARKAY!

i dont belive in that hole thing i have never belonged to pretty much anything (includeing my own family) ....but in high school i hung out with several different types of people from "NERDS" to "GANGBANGERS" but one thing i noticed is that with out there other friends around they would hang and talk to me but with there friends around or "gang" "CLUB" around they ignore me or just nod ... I never liked that i think that is stupid i talk to these people no matter who was around or what they thought... so i think Houses families clans gangs clubs clinks what every you call it promotes speration of people that could be great people even your best friend or could become the love of you life... but hay what always was will alwas be ... right?

I guess yes the sense of belongigng. Everybody feels that need at least once in his life time,even those who say they don't belong to any.The sense of protection too.In a group everyone feels more protected,confident and strong.If you notice, bulliying is always done in group.Cause the more,the stronger.But that's another argument.
I've got friends from all type of groups and I enjoy all their company, still I like some people more than others.I've got something in common with all but still feel an outkast.I used to feel I was in no group when I was at school, and this thing bothered me very much.Even in my family I was always the unwanted and rebelleous child.Now it doesn't bother me anymore.I feel part of no group and am very happy as an individual although people label and classify me in groups and sub-cultures.It doesn't bother me either,all that counts is what I think and feel.However I enjoy very much VR so if that makes a part of a group I am more than glad to be in it :D

I belong to a clan of vampires/satanists we have no name because we wish to remain unknown.

Daermon why join any orginization at all?
That sets you apart by being a member compared to those not members...
Conformity is over rated but is a good thing to be with those like yourself
be it by blood or by interest

mew mew

My Sire who shall remain nameless at this point was/is of The Gangrel Clan. He taught me and the sent me out into the night on my own. I have had no contact with him since the so now I consider myself a solitude and that suit me fine. Unless I fine a lady of the night who can tame my heart and soul and accept me into hers then that is what I shall remain.