My Partner Basement Apartment is Haunted.
Right before he moved into the apartment, he'll hear voices, unexplained noises, things will move with touch the objects, sometimes he feel the wind but the windows are closed.
He founds out, A guy committed suicide hanged himself.
I told him to take pictures & evp tape recorder.
He suggested to not to do it.
Does that provoke the spirit even more or less
happening? Prefer doing it alone or with a group?
I want your thought on this.
thanks
If it is haunted....I know of a paranormal team that will have someone do the history of the place 1st. Bring in a psychic and have two other people with the evp's etc. The reason is too many people make noises. Also people tend to talk when they hear something which then can be picked up on their machines.
Doing it alone...indeed as with a research team I would be sure to surround myself in the white light and do a protection prayer. If the indidvidual does not know what they are invoking....then I would rather just leave it alone. It may be a spirit just trying to get attention.
You could always suggest to him to get a hobby, ghost tend to leave people alone when they do something besides idle about.
Taking pictures and doing EVP's can provoke it. Not saying it it will but it can... I would suggust that if he wants it done to find a paranormal researching team to come out and do so...
you can simulate haunted activity and see how he responds if he is freaked out chances are he is pulling your chain. Or trying to impress you with stories, or setting up a grievance to close the rental agreement on, just some basic motives for ghost claimants, if only they sold ghost insurance..
If the activity is only in the basement then set up a camera and a evp recorder, you do not have to be in the room when you are doing this just set it up for overnight. If it hsppens thst there is a spirit the best thing to do is demand it to leave your home. Or it could be possible the spirit does not know it'd dead, in that case you would have to find a way to get it to understand it's dead and needs to cross over.
i generally just leave them be. evp won't be any good in an apartment anyway, to much background noise.
in my old apartment we used to just tell Myrtle(we called her Myrtle) to settle down. she mostly disturbed the men in the home. here we have kitties, but now that we also have a live kitty we don't notice anymore.
If he wants to get rid of the spooks, I'd recommend the following, it worked on my house:
1. Smudge
2. Go around the apartment with a bell or rattle. Ghosts don't care for loud noises.
3. Use annointing oil and do protective pentacles (clockwise) while using and incantation to banish the spirits. (ex: I banish all spirits, except for spirit guides, animal guides, and guardian angels.) Do this over every door and window.
If he doesn't mind the company, it is imperative that he doesn't fear the spirits and sets down rules they must follow.
If this doesn't help, I'd go to a professional. Good Luck!
Likely the most effective way to make them go away is to find rational explanations for the things that were mistakenly attributed to ghosts. Note that people who don't believe in ghosts tend never to be haunted by them. Once a rational understanding of the circumstances is found, the ghosts simply vanish -- just like volcano gods, disease-causing spirits, etc.
The spirit in my partner apartment, It has done harm to him, frighten his nephews . they has gotten there attention.
I have been at his place once. when i state foot in, right away i felt a presence, its like,It greeted me it was only me by the doorway but no one there, It was only me in the apartment, I was walk around to felt anything. sure enough,
I did. I seen a dark shadowy figure in the basement in the corner of my eye, i look at the direction nothing their.
and I felt a touch on my shoulder. once i felt it I leave right away.
I have had a spirit live with me for like 20 years. She moves with me every time I move. There for awhile she used to play pranks all the time. That was when my daughter still lived with me. I think she was trying to have fun with Tammara. Now that it is just me she doesn't do near as much. She moves things sometimes & has thrown a spatula across the room right after I cleaned it & put it in the dish strainer. I love having her here with me. She has shown herself to me only 1 time & she was beautiful. People that are sensitivie to these things have felt her presence as well.
"Why does he want to get rid of the ghost? If it's not harming anyone why not let it be"
Ghosts are not pets they have a place too if they do not know they are dead then it needs to be explained to them. just imagine how u would feel if you died and was unaware....you go home no one greets you, you talk to someone and get no answer, your family moves out and leaves you behind. How would you feel and sometimes this causes angry ghosts.
As before, if he didn't believe in ghosts, he wouldn't think he had a ghost. Once people give up such beliefs, they start to look for rational explanations. And when you look for rational explanations, that's what you find.
How many of us haven't had a time when we thought we saw something out of the corner of our eye? The fact remains that the human eye only focuses a very small portion of our total field of view. This tiny portion is known as the "fovea". It's caused by a small pit or depression in the retina. So anything we see outside of this area is going to be very blurry. Ever hear of "floaters"? You've likely noticed them before. They're simply tiny bits of matter floating in the layer of liquid on the cornea of your eye. If you noticed a floater in your peripheral vision and were already worried about ghosts, *BINGO!*, you've got a ready-made ghost to be frightened of. And if you then direct the center of your vision at that spot, nothing is there. Spooky, eh?
As for feeling as though something greeted you, define the "feeling"? What separates this feeling from simple power of suggestion where you became so freaked out that you started thinking you felt something. It's little different from watching a documentary which takes you into a cluster of Army ants, and for the rest of the evening, you think you feel things crawling on you. The same goes for the "tap" on the shoulder.
What makes people so sure that everything they think they feel is real, when we all know that we can get "creeped-out" by all kinds of suggestions, to the point that we think we're feeling things touch us. Find someone who is afraid of spiders and show them macro video of a cluster of baby spiders. They'll spend the rest of the night swatting at imaginary spiders and letting out little screams. Yet they know they're simply hyper-alert to any sensation on their skin and there aren't really any spiders.
Your friend's ghost is all in his mind, and in your mind. Even if ghosts existed, you couldn't "see" them. Ghosts are supposed to have no substance. And it take substance to bounce a photon. If a photon isn't bounced to your retina, then you won't see anything. It's your imagination, nothing more.
If the "ghost" is knocking things about, then secure those things, avoid clutter, as a ghost myself I cannot resist an ackwardly stacked pile of papers
(undead I can knock it over without being present).
If you believe in some and disbelieve in others, then I'd be very interested in the criteria you utilize to distinguish between those likely to exist and those not likely to exist. None are any more or any less evidenced than the others. So it would seem reasonable to either believe in them all, or disbelieve in them all.
I think getting a group to do it. That way there is more then one person to prove the facts and it will always be safer with someone else around.
i have lived with mine for about six years now and once i accepted him as what he was he has settled down a good bit i would say try to make peace and have acceptance for what it is
I live about 7-miles from a revived "ghost town". It was quite the thriving little community during days of mining gold and copper but when I moved nearby, it was all but deserted. It has since been renovated and repopulated. But at one time it had the only hospital in the area and it was a rather large, 3-story building. This was before electric surgical lighting was available so the hospital had a sunlit room, something like a greenhouse, at one end of the top floor.
When the town was abandon, the hospital was closed down with trays of surgical instruments, bed pans, gurneys and other hospital equipment sitting around as though the people had all just suddenly vanished in the middle of a busy day at the hospital. By the time I became aware of the building, vandals had broken in, smashed windows and stolen anything of potential value.
The building was boarded up, locked down and closed off to all visitors. I was lucky enough to be friends with the Police Chief for the small down and asked if it would be possible to spend Halloween night inside the old hospital. To add to the tales connected to this building, years earlier there had been a caretaker. He lived in a small room next to the boiler room in the basement. About 10-years prior, someone had stopped by to visit him and found him hanging from a boiler pipe with a rope around his neck.
The Police Chief was delighted at my request since he had plans to be out of town for Halloween and had been asked to patrol the old building regularly as Halloween often invites trespassers and vandals to the old building.
So I spent the night inside this old, creepy, dark, multi-story building. It was a kick. I had to chase away one group of people who trespassed onto the property and wanted to go through the building.
Nothing else out of the ordinary happened.
Nothing.
And yet, this building was featured a few years ago on "Unsolved Mysteries", with the assertion that it was haunted.
The building has now been turned into the Jerome Grand Hotel in Jerome, AZ. Many people pay rather extravagant prices to stay there because the building is rumored to be haunted.
The Jerome Grand Hotel
without a doubt, the common denominator in Haunted Locations, Every Other Small Town has their haunted Location. Here it is the Brookdale Lodge, Now the Brookdale Spa, though actually that place had at one time a troupe that created haunted effects.
The popular Honey Moon sweet.. where an annual "window for an apparition on a distant coast. A well crafted apparition is actually seen.
So what purpose would ghost have in "bumping things about"?
A person needs reason to share about their 'experience", correct?
What is an accepted reply to a person claiming an experience?
How is it your friend hoped you would respond?
I know a couple who told their neighbor their hall was haunted to "explain" heavy drug traffic at odd hours.
I watched the epassoid of Trading Spouses, the one where the one mom in the mild families house, swears she "felt" a presence.
She even had a "Ghost Hunter Team".
Why are ghost only scaring, and promoting sentimental images?
I hope this is not seen as an attack, I intend only to promote expansion in your account, and those who would have you accept their ghost testimony.
i see it like this- if you leave the ghost alone most likely it will you alone- go on about your life and before you know it you would forget all about it-( unless it throws something sharp at you or something- then call someone in) otherwise, leave it alone
i agree.
sometimes ghosts/spirits only want attention and having committed suicide there is no unleft business done and has nothing to do with the new tenant.
besides the spirit is not hurting anything.
tell him to stop outloud...this ususally works
True; ghosts and spirits are just like goblins and Leprechauns. If you leave them alone, they'll always leave you alone. And if you don't believe they exist, you'll never find any credible evidence that they do. And if you do believe, you'll find evidence wherever you can stretch it to fit the belief.
Agreed, however to have some peace of mind it would be better to get a team of experts in to help get rid of the spirit. And an outsider would be more safe.
How does one become an "expert" on something never even confirmed to exist? Am I an expert on Leprechaun activity if I've read a book written by someone who, like everyone else, has never had any confirmed experience with Leprechauns?
No one has ever had any confirmed experience with ghosts or spirits though many claim they have. How are such claims different from claims people make to have seen Elvis after he died or to talk to God or have tea with Allah? It's all completely unconfirmed and it's more than a little difficult to be an expert in something that very well might be nothing but mistaken claims.
Perhaps I'll decide to be an expert in the conscious mental activity of rocks. Does that pay well?
Didnt you watch "Ghost Busters"....sorry just kidding. I am sure if you research you would find somebody who proclaims they have experience in such matters. I am sure if you spoke with these ppl you could tell if they are nutters or real.
I know for a fact that there are scientific groups who do look into this sort of thing. Whether they have come up with anything or not I do not know. But why not give them a go, may help in proving that there is ghost etc.
There are some pseudo-science groups who claim to be using science to investigate claims of paranormal/occult activity and most people don't seem to recognize that what they're doing isn't science.
In science one follows the evidence to the most likely (most evidenced via objective analysis), conclusion.
SCIENCE: Evidence first, leading to conclusion.
In the kind of system these paranormal researchers utilize, they have already drawn the conclusion and are now in search of objective evidence to support the evidence.
NON-SCIENCE: Conclusion first, followed by search for evidence.
(Notice how much "non-science" sounds like "nonsense"?
Anyway, what they do is a strict and absolute violation of the scientific process, and therefore, not science. It's actually much closer to the technique utilized in theology.
The biggest problem people have in attempting to support claims of hauntings, ghosts and spirits is that there isn't (nor has there ever been), any objective evidence upon which to investigate the claims. Therefore, scientific research isn't possible. Though there are still means by which to investigate the validity of some of the claims. And many such tests are conducted. The problem is that believers refuse to learn from the test. Instead, as soon as the test provides results contrary to what they have already chosen to believe, they reject the test, rather than rejecting their beliefs.
We have the same problem when trying to investigate the existence of Leprechauns, fairies and gremlins. But most people aren't so insistent that those tests must conclude in agreement with their desires. So in such cases, they accept the complete lack of objective evidence as conclusive that the entities suggested don't exist. Only with supposed entities which would seem to offer the believer something they wish is the complete lack of objective evidence over thousands and thousands of years not seen as indicative of non-existence.
Sorry, that was intended to say;
"In the kind of system these paranormal researchers utilize, they have already drawn the conclusion and are now in search of objective evidence to support the CONCLUSION."
Good point. Most ppl cannot or will not believe in something unless it has been proven to exist by science. We have a very small mind when it comes to the unknown. I cannot see the air that I breath yet I can feel it. Science is a great thing but it isnt the end all for proving that things are real.
I go on experience. I have contact with spirits and do believe bringing in someone that has knowledge is a good idea. I'm not such in a believer in those so called "experts".
My family comes from a line of witches and sometimes following advise from those "experienced" is a good alternative.
I'm only curious of what type of haunting it is, the are many types of hauntings. Is it a repeat haunting which is one where the spirit repeats the actions of that horrid day they died, or is it not a non-human haunting which is just a spirit which was never human or had a body for that matter had it's home built over and choose that area as its dwelling place?
I rarely have come across I ghost, myself earth spirits, & otherkin are what I come across more often. The ghost I did have a chance to speak to usually just had messages to pass on or warning about something that was going to happen. Oh and one repeat haunting, the poor guy jumped from his balcony in a depressed state and has to relive it over and over again, he was punishing himself even in death.
Or was it a way for someone to impress dread on the domicile?
Three Top reasons for haunting houses?
Could be, or the houses own memory of an experience. We tend to forget that our home where once living things and can hold memories. Having a Native American background we believe that everything that resides in this world has it's own spirit, trees even when they are cut down and dead to us are still a living thing. I can't even say a ghost is truly a dead thing the energy it take to sustain itself makes it a living thing.
That is a good point. We tend to forget the surroundings and only think of the person. Why does one place become haunted yet another place that could have the same event occur does not become haunted.
Here is how this works:
Let's suppose that I'm raised by parents, and/or in a culture, with a strong belief that there are alien species living with us on Earth and studying us.
Being raised with such a belief, there is a very strong likelihood that I'll adopt the belief as my own and even defend it against those who display doubt, despite never having had any experience and certainly no objective evidence to support my belief. But in that people are likely to doubt the assertion, I'm always looking for something -- anything -- with which to offer some kind of support for my argument with skeptics.
So one day I'm sitting at home, perhaps after watching a scary movie, and I get the distinct feeling that I'm being watched. Rather than attribute this feeling to having recently viewed an unnerving movie which would offer me nothing to bolster my assertions, I instead automatically attribute the feeling to the presence of these supposed aliens. Aha, evidence!
Three days later there is a particularly warm day and as the temperature rises outside, I hear a very distinct click or pop from the next room. Since I know I'm alone, I'm somewhat startled. So I peek into the next room and find nothing out of place, no one around and nothing to explain the noise. The rational answer is that the heating of the structure caused a temperature differential between the inside and outside resulting in a shifting of one structural member against another and when the shifting overcame the friction between the two, there was a sharp snap or popping sound. But such an explanation, while fully fitting with the circumstances, does nothing to strengthen my belief. So I subjectively choose to assert that this "unexplained situation" was again due to the aliens in which I have already placed my belief.
Two weeks later as I head to work I notice that the fuel level on the gas gauge in my car seems lower than it was when I glanced at it the previous time I drove. I could conclude that I was simply mistaken about the previous level. I could conclude that I didn't recall the distance I drove properly and simply burned more gas than the route I recall would explain. I could conclude that I have been a victim of gas theft. I could even conclude that the last time I glanced at the gauge the car was sitting at a nose-up attitude and this time it was sitting at a nose-down attitude.
But while all of those conclusions are perfectly rational and adequately explain the circumstances, none of them aid me in my quest to find compelling evidence to support my belief in aliens. So rather than selecting a rational conclusion, I instead begin convincing myself that aliens extracted gasoline from my tank so they can study our means of transportation. So now that I've had three strange instances in a short period of time, all of which I experienced myself, I proclaim that there has been a recent increase in alien activity and insist that it's true because it all rests on my own experiences.
As I continue to relay these stories in an attempt to persuade disbelievers, I also continue to reinforce my own belief in the conclusions I have drawn. My recollection of the events begin to morph from what I experienced at the time, to a distorted version even more significantly tied to my chosen explanation. I begin to recall the sound in the other room as less like structural shifting and popping and more like an eerie unknown sound which isn't adequately explained by structural shifting. The feeling I got which lead me to believe I was being watched becomes stronger in memory than it actually was. The drop in the fuel level in my car, while possibly being just a matter of the vehicle sitting at a different attitude at the time, starts to become remembered as a much more significant drop.
And as I continue to encounter people who don't believe that my explanations are rational or nearly as likely as more rational explanations, I begin to delve into my remembered distortions of the actual events and insist that the rational explanations simply don't fit what I remember. Even very rational and logical people can fall prey to such a practice which is known as "confirmation-bias". One utilizes their bias to attempt to strengthen their chosen conclusions.
People have convinced themselves that night and day were caused by two gods battling over darkness and light and their belief was no less serious and devout than is that of people today in their respective theistic beliefs. People convinced themselves that those insisting that the Earth orbited the sun were dangerous, spreading the word of the Devil and should be eliminated from society. People have convinced themselves that they saw the real Elvis Presley, despite reading multiple accounts of his death. People have convinced themselves that casting community members into volcanoes curbed the volcanic activity. People have convinced themselves that certain dances, chants, songs and rituals can alter the weather. People even convinced themselves (or allowed themselves to become convinced), that the Hale-Bopp comet was shielding a space-craft which was waiting to take them to nirvana.
And yet, we're continually met with insistence that people's subjective interpretations of experiences should be taken as superior to rational, objective demonstration, simply because they have absolutely nothing else to offer and they are appealing to their own proclaimed experiences. They refuse to accept that just like every other human, their perception can be subconsciously bent and distorted to meet the standards necessary for them to accept their own conclusions and match them to accounts with the specific agenda of trying to find any kind of evidence to support beliefs they adopted before any kind of evidence was even offered.
Reality doesn't work that way. With very, very few exceptions, if you follow pre-existing objective evidence to a rational conclusion, you have a very good chance of explaining the evidence or the circumstances surrounding that evidence accurately.
But, if you instead adopt a conclusion, and then go in search of evidence through which to try to support the pre-existing conclusion, you're chances are extremely good that you'll end up doing nothing more than deceiving yourself and insisting to others that because your conclusion is drawn on your own experiences, it should be seen as holding actual merit.
But many, many, many studies have all concluded and demonstrated that even the most rational and level-headed among us are completely susceptible to deceiving ourselves in favor of beliefs we've selected prior to engaging in a search for answers. And the only way to be certain that we are not simply deceiving ourselves is to adhere strictly to objective means and objective evidence and to recognize subjective means and evidence as being highly and frequently misleading.
If you still don't believe this, wait until you find yourself in the position of telling one of your most logical and level-headed friends that his wife, girlfriend or fiancee is cheating on him. If he is devoutly loyal to her (or her to him if the friend is female), there will be very little you can say to convince him that his worst fears are true. This is because he is so highly invested in his desire to believe that she is as loyal to him as he is to her. And the more strenuously you present the evidence, the more likely it will be that he will become highly defensive, completely dismiss even your most objective evidence, and will probably end up alienating himself from you in an attempt to hold onto desired beliefs which are a direct contradiction to the evidence you provide.
Those who believe in spirits, ghosts and afterlives are no less devoted to their beliefs and no less irrational in defense of those beliefs. And yet those beliefs remain nothing more than subjective conclusions based on the desire to believe, and are continually demonstrated to be absolutely devoid of merit when subjected to methods adhering to strict objectivity.
I would suggest investigating with a group, there is strength in numbers as they say. And folks can be more objective about what they hear or see, if there is another person or persons to compare notes with.
As to if whatever is there would get angry about recording devices or investigations there, it depends what type of energy is there. I would not provoke anything, you can ask questions in a polite manner and still get results. And too provoking something, that"something" might follow you home. I have talked to folks that have provoked spirits and have had them follow them back to their own homes. Not a pleasant thought, so just be nice*smiles*
Haunted houses are like" a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get"
Well said, and Forrest was certainly right, and as the Lady said, being nice is always a good idea, memory serves, i recall an interview that Lorraine Warren gave, stating that they were "just lost" and there was no reason to to "yell or threaten"
Not to put too fine a point on it but the Bible also says that fruit trees were growing on Earth in cryogenic temperatures and without any light. So I would hope for a bit more evidence before accepting such a claim. The demonstrable or logical veracity of any claim should be seen as far more important than the source of a claim. For example; if an official government document proclaimed U.S. troops were attacked by a rogue band of sugar-plum fairies, I'd likely want some evidence to support the claim.
Setting up evp recorders I believe would definatly be a good idea in this situation.... I dont believe such devices provoke the spirits in fact most spirits become hostile because they are trying to communicate and cannot... Any avenue of communication should be attempted... If you fail in the communication or the spirit becomes more hostile then a little reasearch on a spiritual cleansing of the house should be done.. It is always better if the homeowner attempts the cleansing themselves and this is for many reasons.... The spirits should know whos in charge and you dont wanna get ripped off by someone who overcharges for spiritual services... There are many books writen on hauntings and the internet is full of material.... If you fear for your life or dont believe you can do it yourself for whatever reason you may feel weak do not attempt anything yourself consult a professional... Spirits sense weakness...
Clear up your house, buy new second hand furniture.
Be certain that your tenant is not just pulling your leg.
Listen to the accounts if "activity".
What possible motive would this person have to "haunt you", do they know you believe in ghost. They could well be mocking you.
I know this is not going to go over well, but I pick up that you are too set on this being ghost, which means you will speculate every bump, late night noise, draft, falling items stacked wrong, to be ghost. So you haunt yourself, your mind is haunted.
Has he tried communicating with the spirit, perhaps its just lost. I have found that if you talk to them as though they were still alive and just simply acknowledge them they will leave you be. Now this doesn't work with all spirits just a good portion of them.
Odd this comes up today...
We've had slowly escalating haunting phenomena going on in the currently occupied apartments in the apartment buildings where I live. (There's alot of empty units, and nearly everyone still living there has reported something lately.)
And it's odd. 1. It's evidencing all of the usual indications of ghostly presence, including poltergeist style incidents. 2. Young male children are in residence in two of the units, well under the age of adolecence. (No girls at all that arent over 21.) 3. It's rather strong for a mere ghost. 4. It scared the crap out of a non-believer when it levitated a tv stand holding his tv. He was wide awake and playing Guitar Hero when it happened. (This is how we found out about it, when he came banging on our door all manner of freaked out.)
Last night they decided to try getting some evp by way of a video recorder set on audio, and the results were unsettling enough they will be setting it up with full video as well as audio, in the little boy's room tonight.
The result they got from last night, was that somehow three adults slept through a great deal of loud knocking and banging, the boy waking up and talking to someone that could be heard responding at much lower volumne, playing with a toy he couldnt reach that was in the room with his mother and next to the recorder, and several times, crying and whimpering. Meanwhile, all three adults are light sleepers, always quick to respond to the child when he cries, and didnt fall asleep for the first hour at all. Yet according to the recording, they managed to miss every bit of it.
This is MUCH stronger than anything Ive ever seen before. I feel I know these people pretty well, and I can vouch for having seen some of the things going on in my own apartment. But this has me questioning their honesty, it's that strong.
Beyond that...I do think something is there. Possibly more than one something. I also think alot of it has to do with the presence of a whole crapload of electrical cables that run behind the building, and parallel to a canal, which also runs the full length of it. This could be giving off the type of EM levels noted to cause the feeling of being watched, and general paranoia.
But the other stuff.....electronics turning themselves on and off, that could be attributed to minor power surges. Menu surfing through electronic photo storage when nobody has the controls is a new one on me.
It didnt seem malicious at first, but that's before I was listening to the little boy whimpering and crying like something was pinching him, and at one point, listening to what sounded suspiciously like a hard slap before he started crying. I saw this boy this morning, he had no no markings to suggest any physical abuse. And five adults checked him over.
a poltergeist cant doesnt have the heat for it, they are cold. but good old firey demons do, and they are great fun when it comes to that, haha, filled mine up so full with what ever conjuration i could come up with on the night it was going out, and i was about 10 miles from. Stuffed a few in my engine block and got 5 extra miles out of the damn thing as it was smoking with sulferous smells that saturated everything as the chains and everything broke on the inner engine bits.
Sorry to hear bout your apartment, haha, id happily remove the pesty thing from your place..could always stand to have an ice box which hits colder temps if you say bound your ghost to your freezer, you would save on electrical costs, or even an air conditioner.
He was sober, though he could have been tired. It's not likely though, because he had been planning to shift the tv stand over to one side by a few inches. When it then levitated, it ended up exactly where he had planned to put it. One reason we at first assumed it to be friendly.
A little bit more went on that day which was witnessed by one of my two roommates when they all went back to that apartment, but that I would attribute to power of suggestion. The other roommate didnt see it, he was sitting at the wrong angle apparently, but if it had gone on for even a minute, he would have adjusted his position in order to view it. That didnt happen. So Im thinking that part was just power of suggestion. (The carpet in front of the tv stand, I was told, moved up and down like air was pushing it up from underneath.)
If it wasnt for the fact that the stand ended up right where he planned to move it, (and I can vouch for discussion in that house of moving furniture around for better organization.) I would definately consider your suggestion a possibility. I do know that staring at computer or tv screens can have something of a hypnotic effect after prolonged exposure.
Decembers Nemisis
Does anyone in the house have a video cell phone? You say there was footage of this, correct?
Was any of the activity logged?
What "other types of poltergeist activity was said to have happened?
What is the general demeaner of the family claiming activity?
Have you ever heard of the Tina Resch case?
I just looked up the Tina Resch case. This link describes it pretty briefly:
http://mtskeptics.homestead.com/Polterevent.html
Why dont you just ask the ghost very nicely to keep it down or leave, and if that doesnt work, time to get a priest.
beast...if you dont believe in ghosts in the first place, why are you spending so much time and effort trying so hard to convince people that they are wrong?
as for the ghost itself, i think it might be a good chance to gather evidence. evps, photos, videos, etc.
you might even use a ouija board to contact it. why not have an open mind...ghosts have been a part of human society as long as people have been dying.
The reason any of us skeptics keep posting in these forums is to provide a rational viewpoint, and to try to encourage people to look at a situation with an open mind, rather than assuming that everything is supernatural. There are plenty of explanations for everything that has been presented so far, and since there has never been a shred of evidence ever presented for the existence of anything beyond the physical, we're providing physical, rational explanations for what you 'believers' continue to needlessly assume are 'ghosts', 'orbs', 'channelers', 'psychics', etc.
Some have been led to believe by observing what appeared to be Geist activity, or ghost apparitions they are either sentimentally overloaded, or
In stark suspended fear, not wanting to accept what they saw as( heard) but some abstract things can really appear to be ghost, some even go out of their way to make it geist like activity, the motives vary.
Some that want other explainstions may solve their preoccupation with what they witnessed, or where convinced they withnessed.
So why do I Bust Ghost? Because those who abuse ghost over do the whole genere. At least be creative and show some video.. which people are claiming exist. Ghost stories, and digest accounts are rather boring ( with a few exceptions.) After a while people that have not had paranormal experiences, and are not creative enough to make up their own will borrow from the "testimony" of others. Adding complexity as the "account is is interviewed rationally.
I have actually bust ghost, after witnessing activity.
That couples account, and the account of others convinced me something was occuring in their house, they did not exersisr the ghost, I helped them train it.
G25
You gotta sell the apartment, move back to the basement, so the ghost can follow you, once it is inside, make a trick you are going to the bathroom so the ghost will follow you to watch you naked, you might think this is exciting, but do not give in, but go for the door instead, and turn the light off so the ghost cant find the door out anymore.
its healthy to be a skeptic, but if you work at debunking the ghost, and it wont be debunked, do you then sit on the ground rocking back and forth saying "there is no such things as ghosts" over and over?
reminds me of the priest in erik the viking! lol
Oops...wrong button, how embarrassing.
Dabbler, the answers to your questions:
No footage, only audio. I'm not sure why they didnt have video as well as audio. The roommate did bring her digital camera, and experienced the depletion of her fully charged batteries within a few minutes, so she got nothing with it.
No...when this stuff tends to happen usually (its been going on for months, in a few apartments.) it's spontaneous and nobody's had a camera or recorder handy to document it. This tape was the only exception, because they were hoping it would work like a regular evp recorder.
Tina Resch case? No. At least not yet, I'm probably gonna go look it up...
beast: in this quoted paragraph you make some false assumptions
"They give off no energy that instruments far more sensitive than the human body can detect. They give off no light (which makes sense because light is a physical property), which even the most sensitive cameras can detect because cameras are designed only to detect electromagnetic energy in the tiny band we call "the visible spectrum". They give off no energy detected in scans of any portion of the electro-magnetic spectrum. They can't be harmed by bullets or swords because they aren't physical. No matter what fantastically sensitive devices are used to try to detect them, the results are always nil or inconclusive. And yet, the comparatively numb human body is the device everyone subscribes to when suggesting that these entities actually exist."
Just because current technology may or may not be able to detect the presence of energy does not mean that there may or may not be energy present. At one time we couldn't detect radioactive energy did that mean it wasn't there until we could?
You can't say because something may be outside the visible light spectrum that it doesn't give off light. Also there are many cameras that function outside the visible light spectrum. ever have an x-ray? then there's infrared, thermal and uv to mention some, there are others too.
they can't be harmed by swords or bullets? ever shot a bullet at or tried to cut a cold virus? not very effective.
There have been plenty of pictures that have shown things that as yet have been to be explained with no evidence that the pictures were faked and numerous audio recordings with as yet unexplained phenomena.
There have also in some cases been unexplained drastic temperature changes.
There are things that the human body can detect that instruments can't such as odor for example. by your logic since a machine can't detect odor then it must not exist. Try convincing your nose of that the next time you step in a fresh pile of dog crap.
I don't remember if it was in the same post or not but in one of your posts you completely dismiss personal experience yet everything in science has been learned by someones personal experience or observing others personal experiences. If you observe a personal experience is that not also a personal experience?
You also mention placebo testing in a round about way and while in some cases results were similar in many they were completely different. In no case of placebo testing have the results been identical. It doesn't necessarily prove the effectiveness or in effectiveness of something as much as it proves the power of the human mind in some cases. Science has shown there is a lot of untapped power there.
Maybe some hauntings are ghosts maybe they are something completely different that we don't understand. You can't assume though that just because we can't get decisive clear proof of what they are or are not at this point that they all must be hoaxes or figments of imagination. Yes there are hoaxes and people with wild imaginations or delusions that doesn't mean all cases fall in to that.
Do I believe all reports of supernatural activity? absolutely not. Can i say for sure whether there are ghosts or not? no. I do believe there are many things we do not yet understand in this world. I have seen some strange things in my life that I can't explain that there have been other witnesses that saw the same thing. All I'm trying to say is just because current technology can't prove or disprove what is or isn't happening in all cases doesn't mean that nothing is in any of them. It wasn't all that long ago that people didn't believe in germs because they couldn't see them even though they had been found with early microscopes. That didn't make the germs any less real. The average person now still hasn't actually seen a germ but we know they exist because of a scientists personal experience of looking through a microscope. When we can't explain something we try to put it into terms we can understand at the time. Yes especially in the past many times the explanations were way off. That was mainly because mans comprehension at the time was similar to that of a child. Try explaining to a very young child that they have to wash their hands because of germs they can't see and watch the reaction. Then try it again with the explanation of dirt which they can see. As they get older they can grasp the idea of germs.
There are enough similar reports throughout history of ghosts or hauntings many with at least some physical evidence that some type of event is more than likely taking place in at least some of these cases. Eventually the reality of it will be explained. Until then we can only speculate.
A sound is physical evidence but until the last century sound evidence could not be retained at all and is still a very new and growing technology.
Here's a hypothetical situation:
In theory every sound that has ever been made still exists and if we had sensitive enough equipment that could filter out what you didn't want you could record any of them. So in theory you could record Lincoln's Gettysburg address today with the right equipment. So maybe under the right conditions a person could hear a past sound resonating through some freak set of conditions that might or might not be able to be detected with current recording technology. Now if someone heard such a sound what would they likely think? would they be more likely with today's general understanding to think it's an actual sound from the past, a ghost or something completely different? While the first is a theoretical possibility I doubt many if any would suspect that. Some might think of a ghost. Many and probably most would just think they imagined it though.
They do know that sound can resonate for a long time under the right conditions. The sound of the Krakatoa eruption resonated audibly around the earth at least 7 times. And while there was no actual recording of the sound they did have equipment that measured the air pressure of the sound from it.
Gah. Technical difficulties tonight...
As for the demeanor of the family, and poltergeist activity, it may be pointless to relate what's been related to me so far. I had a long talk with two of the people involved, (not the couple who's apartment had the levitating tv stand.) long story short, consulted the tarot. (I've a deck that's pretty handy for telling me things about people I dont know well or at all.)
We're pretty sure the tape is unreliable. The couple have some pretty serious issues with each other apparently, and few friends. At this point, we're pretty sure this is being at least partly fabricated as a distraction for the both of them, from their own problems, and to encourage companionship so they dont have to be alone with each other. I wasnt aware of this previously, or to how deep it went, until the tarot readings indicated certain things and the other neighbor decided to tell us everything she knew to be going on with them.
We're pretty sure it's not something they're doing to be malicious just more a case of they want attention and people around them to distract them. The rest of us like them well enough, and dont mind hanging out with them. We're going to stay out of their marital issues, monitor the situation with the child, keep them company and let this basically run its course until the novelty wears off.
We still think there's something in the building, but basically, they're hyping it.
:)
La6Muerte66
"First of all, there's no such thing as radioactive energy. It's radiation, and it comes in the form of particles and electromagnetic energy."
Okay I didn't word it very well since radiation is actually a process by which energy moves. What I was trying to show is that at one time what is generally referred to as nuclear radiation there is still energy there in that process and at one time we could not detect it but that did not make that energy or the process or the energy that is present any less real.
"It's a stretch to make claims about what science might not know by comparing it to what we didn't know in the past. We now know the four forces that govern every chemical and physical reaction that occurs on earth. Unless something is smaller than the nucleus of an atom, we can see it, and unless it is miraculously devoid of physical properties, we CAN detect it. If it IS devoid of physical properties, then how can YOU detect it?"
It is presumptuous to assume we know all the forces that effect everything just as it was when man thought that the states of matter were earth, wind/air, water and fire. Have you ever heard the theories about dark matter? They are based on the fact that things in the universe don't behave exactly as we think they should based on our current knowledge of physics, mainly that of gravity and mass.
"That isn't what he said. Cameras are set to measure only a limited portion of the spectrum. If a standard camera can capture a ghost, then your eyes can. While there are cameras that operate on other frequencies, we still don't have any verifiable images taken with those cameras either..."
umm yes he did here is the specific quote again:
"They give off no light (which makes sense because light is a physical property), which even the most sensitive cameras can detect because cameras are designed only to detect electromagnetic energy in the tiny band we call "the visible spectrum"."
and there are images that exist that can not be verified as to what they are but that there is definitely something in the image that can not be explained away.
my quote: "they can't be harmed by swords or bullets? ever shot a bullet at or tried to cut a cold virus? not very effective."
yours: "I'm not even sure what you're getting at here. Have you ever captured a flu virus in a photo of your family? Has a flu virus ever reportedly moved objects or made an audible sound? Your comparison is irrelevant."
his quote: "They can't be harmed by bullets or swords because they aren't physical."
my point: you can't say that something isn't physical because can't effect it with bullets or a sword. Also viruses do move things just not to a point detectable without a microscope. When a virus moves into a point whether on something or in something/someone it displaces what was there before since to objects can not occupy the same point of existence. The movement of the tiniest sub atomic particle effects to some degree every other particle in existence. You can not see with your eyes or touch air in a way that you feel it yet when it moves fast enough you can hear it and feel it's effects. Also air normally will not go through a brick wall or move anything when it's at low to near zero velocity. Accelerate it to 300mph or more and see what happens.
"We're still waiting for just one of these 'unexplained' pictures to be presented. The same goes for audio, provided anyone can demonstrate the conditions under which the sound was recorded. You know what? ANY of these would do, but just flatly stating they exist is pointless. Provide an example."
search the internet you will find plenty.
"Machines can detect odor. We've had them for over 10 years. I'm not ever sure how you came to this conclusion."
sort of but not exactly they detect the presence of chemical compounds in the air they can not however tell you what it smells like and as of yet they are not as accurate as even the human nose.
"No. He dismissed personal experience and interpretation of an event without gathering any sort of quantifiable data. Science has never 'been learned' through observation without the impartial and objective collection of data, analysis of said data, and rational conclusion based on all of said data. Don't deliberately confuse 'personal experience' with 'objective personal observation'."
It is impossible for humans to be 100% impartial and objective. All data collected by humans is therefore subjected to personal experience. All evidence is interpreted by people with available data at the time. People once thought that gravity pulled more on heavy objects than lighter one because a rock fell faster than say a feather. But they did not take into account the air resistance. The evidence appeared to show the older theory was correct when in fact it was not.
"They don't have to be identical. They demonstrate that the mind is not perfect, and is entirely capable of fooling itself."
I never said the mind was not capable of fooling itself but in some cases the mind had real effects on the outcomes.
"Science has NEVER shown that any 'power' is still untapped in the brain, and there has never been a shred of evidence to demonstrate that the mind is capable of breaking the laws of physics."
I never implied anything about the mind breaking physical laws and I did not mean to imply any kind of supernatural power only that we only use roughly 10% of our brains potential.
There are enough similar reports throughout history of ghosts or hauntings many with at least some physical evidence that some type of event is more than likely taking place in at least some of these cases.
"There were enough similar reports of witchcraft in Salem, MA to convict and hang 15 innocent people. "Reports" are subject to human error. Never has there been physical evidence that we can't explain by today's standards."
I never said there has not been numerous false and or at least wildly inaccurate reports. On the other hand reports of giant squids were for centuries believed to be false because no one had ever caught one. Roughly 10-15 years ago though a dead one washed up on a shore somewhere.
"A sound is a wave of energy traveling through a medium (air, water, solids) at a certain frequency. For something to produce a sound, it has to be capable, at some level, of disturbing and moving physical objects. This is an issue I've had with voice phenomena for a while now. If a ghost can't be seen, and can't be touched, then how can it produce a sound? Do you mean to also suggest that ghosts can alternately touch and travel through physical objects at will?"
refer back to what I said earlier about air.
Decembers Nemisis makes a valid post, the psycology of of paranormal claims, is just as much a part of any investigation. Along with the psyciology of those who "see" or experience geist activity.
Often over looked in Para Normal Investigations is the W.W.W.W.W.H
Who what Where when Why, and How. In my experience such inquiries are essential to assessing a claim, those that profess to have witnessed activity when asked for basic accounts determine the credibility of the currently unexplained activity, or "sightings".
As I have said I have helped people exercise geist from their house, they wanted the geist gone, they accepted the explaination, some when offered an explaination up the severity of their story (again why a concise account is needed prior to offering explainations)
When a person is so determined to be comforted for some underlying problem, or seek to rally their peers around something that makes them "exciting socially, it is seldom settled, as "the haunting is in the psyological, Para Behavior areas.
"Perhaps I should have specified. We know the four forces that affect the matter that exists on earth. I've heard and read a lot about dark matter. The theories are very interesting, and make a great deal of sense, but it's not entirely relevant, as it's never been detected in our solar system, and doesn't interact with electromagnetic radiation. They aren't based on the fact that things don't behave the way we think, but that there is activity that suggest gravity fields where no matter is physically observed."
Actually dark matter is believed to be a part of everything in existence.
As for being substantial or insubstantial look at matter, in particular water. It has at least 3 states as do all forms of matter we know. These are solid, liquid and gaseous. Water in it's solid form will not pass through objects without considerable amounts of force. In it's liquid form it will pass through some porous objects. In it's gaseous state it will pass through a lot of objects. In it's different states water takes different amounts and types of force for it to effect or move other objects. If you excite matter sufficiently it will also become energy. When matter becomes energy and it has different properties then.
On the subject of light now: People do not give off visible light but you can see people. People reflect visible light which is why you can see them. For you to see visible light you have to be at the proper angle either in direct line with the source with no obstructions or in direct line with the reflected light. With incoherent light like that from the sun or a light bulb this is generally easy to accomplish since the light travels at numerous angles making it more likely you will see at least some of it. If you were close enough to the moon and it was between you and the sun you would not be able to see the moon unless maybe light was reflected from the earth or some other source. When you are in a room with a light on you see light directly from the source and light reflected from objects in the room. You do not however see the light as it travels through the air from the source to the object unless there are particles in the air such as dust or smoke. It's easier to see this effect with coherent light such as that from a visible light laser source since all the light is traveling in the same direction. Light is a form of radiant energy but it does have a physical component in the form of photons. What we see are certain types of those photons, the more photons the brighter the light. Not enough photons and you won't see the light. Cameras work essentially the same way they have the photons hit some type of media that changes as a result so that later when light is then later shown on that media it reflects photons in a pattern that your eye can recognize as an image. Both cameras and your eyes can be "fooled" by manipulating angles of reflection. Sometimes there's things your eye can see that a camera may miss and vice verse. In most cases the human eye is more sensitive than a typical camera to light which is why in low light conditions you need a flash to capture an image that you can see fine with your eyes. So IF there is a phenomenon actually there it may be a matter of developing the right kind of camera to capture it.
Optical illusions, show us that the sense of sight receives data one way, yet processes it another way, wether the optical effect occurs randomly, or is crafted. The abstract is then interpreted to suit the observer.
The next time something sudden happens watch the responses of those around you, not only how the respond to the event, but to each others responses. In the moment it is hard to witness a suddenly occurance, and the reaction of others, once you can learn that you can spot ghost before they act.
not all solids are created equally some are more permeable than others. Latex is considered a solid yet helium can pass through it albeit very slowly which is why Mylar is preferable to latex for helium balloons. Helium also does not damage latex as it passes through it. A filter is a really good example of how some types of "solid" matter will allow some types of matter to pass through while blocking others. Water in it's liquid state will pass through a coffee filter without damaging it while in it's solid state it would be likely to destroy the filter.
The alleged effects of dark matter are very small and and at close range would be difficult at best to measure. At a distance though the effect is magnified. Lets say you want to go from point A to point B then to point C and that all of these points are in a direct line. Now lets say that when you calculate the course your calculations are off by 1/100th of 1 degree off. Lets say point B is 1ft from point A while point C is 10 trillion miles from point A. At point B your error would not even be noticeable. At point C however you would miss your mark entirely.
Oh the part about the cameras yes there are some more sensitive but as I said I was referring to general use cameras that most people have access to. If your subject emits or reflects very little light then using a flash could wash it out completely. It might also be a matter of illuminating the subject with the right type of light.
If these alleged occurrences are a result of some type of energy it may be that the physical aspect may be minimal or of a type we don't yet understand. Light photons from a light bulb have very little effect on objects they hit. Now if you align and concentrate those light photons like they are in a high powered laser they can cut steel.
ok like i was trying explain with the water examples. As matter changes from a gas to liquid to solid it's molecules become more densely packed. The more dense the molecules become the more difficult it is for it to pass through something else. If you go the other way and take it to where matter becomes energy in some cases that energy can be transmitted through an object without hurting the object as long as you don't exceed the transmission capability of the matter. Electricity is a good example of an energy that can be transmitted through certain types of matter without harm to the matter. Electricity can pass through a solid piece of copper wire without damaging the wire as long as you don't try to pass too much too fast.
If it is a type we don't understand, then where is the physical aspect coming from? Why has the phenomenon never come up in a lab setting, using much more precise instruments, when standard cameras are capable of detecting them under the right conditions?
If using a flash can wash it out completely, that would eliminate half of the 'orb' photos we've seen so far... ;)
What do you mean by 'the right type of light'? It could only be so many kinds of light. It's all electromagnetic radiation, and it must be in the visible spectrum or it wouldn't likely show up on cameras, so we're only looking at a few possible options.
Technically, it's still damaging the wire, as the electrons in each atom of copper (in this instance) are bombarded and sent along. Even in the case of electricity, the energy isn't passing through the matter, it's changing the properties of the matter, with no net result. This is only possible with very specific elements and compounds, however, and is VERY dependent on the chemical structure of said substances.
actually there is no damage because the free electrons in the copper wire are moving from one atom to another. copper atoms like other conductors have free electrons that can easily move from one copper atom to another without any damage to the atoms. It is this free electron property of conductors that makes them conductors. The more free electrons a material has in it's atoms the better a conductor it is. The only time there is damage is when you exceed the current handling capabilities of the wire. which basically means you are trying to move more electrons through the wire than what it has. Current is a measurement of how much how fast. A small diameter wire doesn't have a lot room for a lot of current to flow. where a large diameter wire has more because it has more electrons.
That does depend on a subjective definition of 'damage'. The valence electrons are displaced in each atom of copper, briefly altering the charge of each.
Amusing how this has developed into a discussion of electronics.
La Muerte...
"If it is a type we don't understand, then where is the physical aspect coming from? Why has the phenomenon never come up in a lab setting, using much more precise instruments, when standard cameras are capable of detecting them under the right conditions?"
Well...how would you transport a ghost to a lab setting? Particularly if it didnt want to go?
I did read somewhere, an account of laboratory experiments, in which a group of people basically created a ghost. I want to say Princeton University. They designed him, named him, gave him a past history, and apparently recorded his antics for the duration of the experiment.
When it was over, they explained to the "ghost" that he wasnt real, that they had made him up, and he promptly disappeared. A few weeks later, the group decided to 'believe" in him again, and he returned.
This wouldnt be a true ghost per se, but a thought-form, the point though, is that are you SURE there have been no scientific experiments into the paranormal? Is it possible you simply havent been reading the right literature? I can think of one book that made it into VR's own database, which was also the result of scientific experiments funded by the military, at one of the Universities in Georgia. (In case you're wondering, Joe Slate's "Psychic Vampires". )
Now whether or not you wish to believe in the published results....there again, subjective opinion colors which way we will go with it. A skeptic might dismiss even those two examples, a believer might embrace them.
I was unable to find the study you brought up about military-funded studies into the paranormal, but I was able to find commentary on many experiments performed. Apparently, the 154 tests performed between 1973-1988, and the 10 performed after 1990 showed inconclusive data.
However, I wasn't able to find ANY paranormal studies that had ever been subjected to peer review, except for one article that demonstrated 'the effect on pseudo-psychic demonstrations as dependent on belief in paranormal phenomena and suggestibility'. It seems no studies on psychic phenomena actually made it into peer-reviewed scientific journals, and the tests that were performed lacked experimental controls and had poor methodology.
On an off-statement, it's been said that the military has a history of wasting the taxpayers' money on studies that turn out inconclusive. Case in point, the Air Force spent $25,000 to fund a study on teleportation, only to receive a report that we're still far from being able to teleport objects, and may never be capable of doing so.
My enduring question is, " Are ghost clumsy?", " What purpose have "lingering souls" for knocking things around?
Creating ghost.. well I am a ghost.
A common entity found around squats is the squat monster, sort of like a gremlin.. any Squatter will tell you of things vanishing from within reaching distance..
Phillip, I actually followed that. Prior to the experiment each student was given a folder that told them whether they believed, or not. Those that "believed" may have been skeptics, and visa versa, the " believers" had to convince the " skeptics".
Some students sneaked into the others dorm to get info to use in a sitting.
They created a Sociogeist. As well as the base for applied
Suggestsbility, as mentioned by La Murta.
The experiment, done to show how grant money was wasted on paranormal projects, is ironically presented by paranormalist as conclusive in support of the existence of ghost phenomena. At the mundane level, and as a ghost myself I find the experiment facsinating, the spook bar is too high. People want to be suspended between spooked, and disbelief.
Like some one said, Do you just curl up when an "entity is active and say there are no ghost?" How about do you want to be driven mad, or have someone you know driven mad by "did I see what I saw?" people play on the fear of others, especially when they where scared by something. Some want others to think they are granted special audience.
It sets the bar so high, it really creates as many cynics as believers.
Use sage, salt, or quarts in the house and demand that the spirt leave. Thats all you have to do.
ok so more back on the subject I have some questions for the original poster.
First though apparently the person in question believes or wants you to believe that ghosts are real and that his place is haunted by one. So for the sake of this lets assume that ghosts are real and his place is haunted.
1. Is he afraid of the ghost or in fear of his life from the ghost?
2. If not how does he feel about the ghost?
3. Does he want the ghost gone or does he like having it around.
4. Does he or has he tried to communicate with the ghost or it with him?
5. Have you witnessed any of the hauntings?
6. If so how do you feel about the ghost?
7. In what context did the person mention the activity?
8. What questions did you ask after the activity was mentioned?
good questions Wolvie.
La6Muerte66, damn son...yew done gots some o dat book learnin! lol
next youll start discussing string theory...and thats a good thing.
but back to the conversation, i agree that if something wont be debunked, more study is required, but my point in the whole matter is we should keep an open mind. use occams razer, and sure...most "ghosts" will end up being a bit of potato (more of gravy than the grave), but i will not rule out that some paranormal experiences are in fact ghost activity. again, this last being based on some of my own experiences.
Being open minded, includes concidering that psyiological anonmalies are explainations as well. Example, when a persons blood pressure spikes, gray
Hazes appear to drift in the air before them. A person that finishes focused activity will have a visual sensativity. Clustered houses, and cabin fever may produce Geist activity ( my favorite impove effect involves this common phenomena). So an open mind is one thing, an open mind is worthless without open eyes as well.
I hear people say.." I would not have believed it, if I didn't see it." relate in accounting the experience " You just have to take my word for it."
I have spooked a lot of people, I know how people relate what they witness, I expand my open mind to consider such factors. One person in a group even though they where not in a vantage point to observe an event will occasionally claim they did, but only after those who did see the effect.
One person will adapt their version to that of another.
Even after the effect is explained someone occasionally presses others to consider that it could have been a ghost, or that they where scared only because they claim the house has a history of hauntings.
I have an open mind that most sightings are related in amorphic narrative, this indicates fabrication.
An open mind must be opened to the possibility that more paranormal sightings are possible embellishments of naturally occuring events that scared someone, that they then are embarrased to admit scared them.
I dont recall there being a quija board involved in that experiment...but who knows. As for Military funded studies into the paranormal, if you didnt find anything, where were you looking? What would make you think the Military would advertise such things, especially on the internet?
I'll see if I can find the ghost experiment account..I likely quoted the book I read about it in. The other one, the author Joe H Slate makes the claim in his book "Psychic Vampires", detailing how his findings came about during a few years of study at a college in Georgia. I'll see if I have that available to quote as well.
La Muerte:
Quote regarding ghost experiment:
"In fact, in 1972 a group of eight people in Canada, the Toronto New Horizons Research Foundation, had actually produced numerous paranormal events after designing a ghost and concentrating together on him. They named him Philip; gave him a tragic history as an English aristocrat and a reason to have returned as a ghost; and designed his likes and dislikes, habits and customs. For some time, nothing happened. Yet when they left off concentrating and decided to just have fun and relax, they got results: raps or "answers" on the table in response to songs and questions, the "answers" being in perfect accord with the invented personality. Then the table began to move and once even shot across the room. There were cool breezes and metal bending, and all of this was captured on video tape. When one member told "Philip" that they had made him up, the phenomenon ceased. It picked up again when the group resumed "belief" in his existence. One might assume, then, that all such phenomena are psychological in nature."
"Ghost: A Firsthand Account Into The World Of Paranormal Activity" by Katherine Ramsland (2001, Nonfiction.)
Ramsland seems to be a decent researcher, though not what I would otherwise consider a trustworthy source where it comes to her own personal claims.
This is directly from Joe H. Slate's book "Psychic Vampires":
"My interest in psychic vampirism began over twenty-five years ago when I received a research contract to study the human energy system from a seemingly unlikely source- The U.S. Army Missile Research and Development Command."
So I might have been off a little bit in saying "U.S. Military"...
I doubt that videotaping and or using an EVP recorder would provoke the "spirit" if there even is any. He should check for EMF waves, that could be causing him to think what he hears. If that turns up negative, then he should totally do the EVP.
December, the problem I have with accounts like these is there's no actual published data, and like the quote even said about the first one, it may have all been psychological. On top of that, if the test were even genuine, it makes no actual advancements to our understanding of the paranormal. In the absence of published findings and testable evidence (they could have at least published their method and findings), there's nothing to work with, and as a default, has to be ignored as circumstantial and anecdotal evidence. Ramsland, may be a decent researcher, but the directors of the studies, George and Iris Owen, have a long history of reported cases with no findings ever being published in peer-reviewed journal (I did a search for articles submitted by ARG Owen, George Owen, and Toronto New Horizons Research Foundation, with no results). No one seems to have checked their methods or retested their results.
The issue with Joe H. Slate is that he merely made a claim to have studied the human energy field, doesn't describe the study, and as I stated before, the military has a history of throwing away money on studies that don't turn up any (positive) conclusive findings.
The interpretation of both of these is up to one's personal opinion, but from a scientific perspective, they don't really demonstrate anything, and without being able to recreate any actual tests, the findings can't be taken into account as valid evidence.