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I saw a thread called immortality, biut I dont like tea, so...

can 'vampires' have a set of moral guidelines...if so, what would they be?

Real vampires would be soulless, bloodsucking demons, so in that regard I'd have to say no. They're merely predators, like lions. You just eat whatever crosses your path.

oh, but I disagree, my friend, this would be only one such species of vampire, there are others who have not the ability to chew their food, so what do they do? eh?

no quick quip to cut me down Xander?...come now, surely this is not a challenge for one of your wordiness?

Stabb, rather than sit and wait for people's opinion, and then pounce on it and shred it to peices, why don't you pluck up some courage, and offer up your own, and let us be your judge for a change?

Should make for interesting sport.. at least from where I am sitting.

Sitting in waiting of sport,

Mistress Moreish

i think the feeling of love will be there somewhere. still if you feed from blood you should KILL.

excuse me?

I'm just going by all the legends I've ever read. If you're talking about traditional vampires, no matter what they feed on, they were evil undead spirits who fed on the living.

Moreish,

I think you misunderstand the gist of my comment towards Xander. I have the utmost respect for him and his words and I beleive he knows this.

I find you to be aggressive toward me and I know not why.

I merely threw out a retort to his own blanket statement, for we all know that 'vampires' have many differeing methods of feeding.
do all of these methods follow moral statutes? or do they cross borders of sensibility?

I was looking to get some opinions as I know my own and would gladly share them, but, as you can see, not a great deal of response for me to assess, so far.

No problems here. I love a good debate. It's the best test of one's intellect.

so essentially, your position is that 'vampires' are incapable of morality and as such will feed on whatever they want whenever and wherever?

hi freak,

is this a love of the chase, the thrill of the hunt? or perhaps a love of the act of feeding?

or do you mean that the 'vampire' can still entertain love for its victim, even if it must kill it?

For the record, if you think it's aggressive, it means you've never really experienced it from me

I understood perfectly your comment above and I threw out a lively challenge

Obviously, you miss-read me.

what is the opinion of the Master Vampire?

do you, Moreish, beleive that a vampire can exist alongside a moral concience?

or must they be amoral to survive, or perhaps you have a different take on it...I will certainly discuss with you, if this is not an attack on me for flippant comments.

If I had one, I would have posted it by now, what I wanted to know, was you, as the person who asked the question, must have an opinion on the subject, therefore share it.

And, first and final warning, I'm by no means flippant, I am straight to the point and direct.

Just saying that you have to separate the legends from the romantic notions of writers and Hollywood. The legends were all based upon people's primal fears and ignorance. Morality wouldn't have been an issue.

Moreish, I did not accuse you of a flippant comment, but that my own response to Xander was such.

As to my own opinion, since you ask, I will attempt to meet your standards.

I find the process of selecting a victim to be the first area where I have concerns, for I find it unacceptable to head out into the night with the specific intention of finding somone and seducing them in the knowledge that they are simply using them for their own seflish and oft goulish needs.

Once that victim has been ensnared, there is then the question of whether to feed and release or to take the life entirely. This causes its own dilemma, in that murder is morally reprehensible, but is it murder if you are following an instinct?
but then, if they were to simply take their fill and release, how would the victim feel about this?
I know that I would be most unhappy were I to discover that I am merely a plaything of something dark and terrible and might, if I were not a stronger person, wish to have died rather than submit to such horror of memory.
but this then raises the question of whether there can be voluntary feeding within the boundries.
can there be an acceptable mode of servile intent to allow creatures who have no other option to keep their existance? I think not...I think that the human would have to break their own sense of right and wrong to achieve this. A human must surely know that allowing a vampire to subsist itself upon him or her would be unspeakably twisted.

also, what of those humans who are forced to serve these beasts?
I would say that it is also wrong to enslave humans for feeding, which leaves little room for these creatures to be anything other than the commonly held perception of evil...and as such, do they have a right to exist?

I think so, for we as humans cannot be the judge of creation and if they were born of the universe, as we all are, have they not the same legitimacy to existance as we?

these are all questions I ask of myself and for good reason...I care not to offend, merely to reach understanding.

At last!

Now I can go to bed in peace.

That would be assuming the vampire had a conscious choice as opposed to being totally beastial and nonsentient.

Xander, this is a good question...one which is dealt with throught the white wolf novels of the clans, the everlasting battle to reign in the monster which seeks to engorge itself upon humanity's blood...so I cant answer that...sorry

i dont think that vampires would have morals. of course you never know i could be wrong...they very well might have morals, i mean every other form of life does,right?

but do animals?

are vampires animalistic as Xander suggests?

i would have to agree. i mean animals have the urge to feed to survive, but im not sure if they would have morals or not.
that is something to wonder about...

tricky is it not?

I've done extensive reading on the subject. It all comes down to what you believe a vampire to be. For morality to apply, at least from a vampire's perspective, it would have to retain a soul, for without one, any act can be moral.

but isnt the fact that vampires really dont have souls kind of put into play there?

True. With no soul, one cannot be expected to be held up to the same moral code as the rest of society.

yeah, i agree. so that would mean that vampires,if without a soul, just go about life doin what ever comes to mind and not realizing the reactions to their actions?

Not necessarily. They may be aware of their actions and the consequences. They just wouldn't care.

then why the masquerade? fear of retribution?

yeah, that is a good question.

The vampire of the masquerade could be said to have souls, as not all of them are inherently evil. Not all feed on helpless victims. And the masquerade is important for the survival of the race. As powerful as vampires are, if they were known to exsist by the world, they would be quickly outnumbered and exterminated.

that makes since.

...I disagree, it cannot be that 'some' vampires have souls where others have not, otherwise, it devalues the veryy essence of soulfullness....unless you are saying that we generate our souls through our actions and beleifs, but even then, people such a pol pot would have to be considered soulless and as nothing can live without a soul, he could never have been....arrgh...ca you see where I am going with this, as I've lost site of it a little...my original hypothesis was whether vampires can exist and operate within moral boundries...

i dont know...lol. they might be able to.

As I said, it all depends on what you believe vampires to be. It could very well be that there are some with souls, who would be included within a moral code. Whether or not they choose to abide by it is another matter. But I would say it depends on how they feed. If feeding from a human victim, you're denying their basic rights, much like murder or rape, so that would be a no. If you feed from animals or other supplies, then it's no less moral than any average human.

can it be said then that the vampiric equivalent of 'vegetarianism' i.e. feeding on non human blood would be morally acceptable to society?

I think they would each have their own set of guidelines.... Not all the same. It just depends on who it is, and how they feel I guess. lol. Not that great of an answer, but I tried.

...is there anyone who would consider themselves to be a 'vampire' in even the loosest sense of the word who might share their moral standpoint here?

Society at large regards the drinking of blood under any circumstaces immoral, as many on this site would know, but in my opinion, and this is just my opinion, it would be no more immoral than eating steak in a restaurant.

FYI, I do consider myself a vampire, in that I drink blood, and I see nothing immoral about drinking the blood from a willing donor, provided it was done safely.

very well, I accept your position, Xander.

suppose they would, but they might not

who knows

errr...

the black veil anyone?

helllloooo-ooohhh

hi Gorey, thanks for mentioning...although I am trying to look beyond scriptured idealism...I have begun reading this thanks to others here, I was never aware of it before coming here, but I am also wondering more about individuals' perceptions as to 'rights and wrongs' of vampirism...

my own personal rights and wrongs?

i'm unsure. i wouldn't call myself a vampire. either in the bloodsucking form or energy form. although i have experienced the energy form a few times, i'm not sure i'm capable of it.

if i am capable of an energy form of vampirism. that could mean i could be lethel.

i do not want to be lethal. so i'd want consent from a person. but if the energy was coming from elsewhere... heat on a wall. a plant. then consent would not be needed.

excellent, so there are ways in which an energy vampire could feed without affecting living being?

please be patient with me, I am learning as I walk here...

I'm unsure if the living being could be affected. i myself always feel a bit more energetic when i pass a lot of plants. i sometimes feel like the life there is somehow going to me.

the living being (i imagine) might feel tired. but i cannot say