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Coming from near Hastings, where Aleister Croley lived for a while and died, I would be interested to read the opinions of my fellow members on the man who was supposedly "the most evil man alive" during his lifetime.

It is said locally that Crowley cursed Hastings and it's inhabitants and his curse was that the inhabitants of the town were doomed never to leave unless they took a pebble from the beach with them when they moved away from the town.

There has been a long tradition of the old ways surviving within the Hastings area. There is one particular church (Church in the Wood, Hollington - which is now in a built up area) which has time and again been used for the Dark Arts.

My opinion on Aleister Crowley is that he was a clever man who used the publicity that was generated to the best of his abilities and he was not the monster that he was painted.

I happen to agree. He did a lot of really interesting thing in his lifetime. I particularly like some of his books. He had a different kind of outlook on things. He also had quite a following is his time. Today he has become more popular than ever!

I own some of his books and for me, he was a genius in his own way. His way of doing "magick", like he called it, was interesting and complex.

A lot of brilliant people were seen as evil. Curses aren't real. The power of suggstion in many cases is.

And people tend to be sheep. They'll believe anything as long as someone they see as authority feeds it to them.

Much like Jim Jones,Hitler,David Koresh,if you put enough weak minded people together,that want to hear someone else tell them how to live and what to believe.They will always bow down and follow what radicals tell them to think or do.he was just another narcissistic delusional man wanting people to follow him and what he said.Much like now...someone makes a thread asking what others thought of him and many will praise him.Even though he doesn't deserve praise.

It certainly appears he led an interesting life, and he was certainly an inspirational leader and he did a lot to help the renaissance of the Old Ways.

Whether some of the wilder things that were said about Mr Crowley were true, we will never know. I can't but help wonder if it's true that he had a book bound in human skin.

Of course there will be those who despise what he did and what he stood for, but equally there will always be those who blindly follow. As for myself, I prefer to keep an open mind on these things.

The reason for my interest in Mr Crowley is mainly because of the local connection.

PS - Mr Crowley is a great song by Ozzie Osbourne with some brilliant guitar playing - but a shame he pronounced his name wrong.

Alister Crowley was an excellent self promotion. He was a very adept alchemist and maji. His theories, findings and beliefs were further by H.P. Lovecraft's writings. AS for weather he was evil or not, that is a matter of opinion. He used his gifts and crafts in his own personal pursuit's so it's hard to say what;'s evil and what's good when you talk about ones own wants and needs. In his pursuit to prove that there were Gods older than the biblical God is a natter of interest though.
His practice in the Cathulu Mythos. And his worship of these Gods do invoke some questions of good and evil. The Cathulu are believed to be before time and selfish Gods. Everything that you are or were given by them came at the cost of ones soul in the end. His avocation of these Gods were what made him a heretic alone And got him excommunicated for the church of England.
So it is all in the eye of the beholder I guess.

I would be excommunicated by the Catholic church for my beliefs!

Aleister Crowley used his life to the fullest, he accomplished more in his lifetime than the average 20 (that being a generous number depending upon where you garner your lot) today. It doesn't matter what his intentions where, if you don't like a spell or other magical/religious doings of his then don't pay any mind to them, reality is subjective and malleable in that regard. I don't find anyone who stirs up the quickly congealing communal piss pot of human existence 'wicked' or 'evil'. It's human nature to get complacent and it's the Aleister Crowleys that keep existence relevant and in a state of cultivation rather than stagnation. We need critics and bastards, to keep us humble and force us to strive to be better. There are few greater motivations than spite. Human potential is too precious to be allowed to wither.

-GalFriday

Better to be a free spirit than a boring robot.

Give me an Aleister Crowley over a robotic sheep any day.

Precisely my point. (As my kismet states) There is a distinct difference between fruitful fertilizer and just a pile of shit. Thank you for this thread for it inspired my kismet change. :)

That's OK GalFriday - I think that ideas are there to be challenged. Better to be an individual with a short interesting life than a boring bastard who dies of old age.

My word, this had better not turn into another hero out of the villian concept. It had already been done with Vlad Dracula.

Aleister Crowley was a fool... A spiritualist, but a fool nonetheless. He was anything but a hero to whomevers people. Or Saint to whomever are fool enough to praise him and or worship him in the name of what ever "god" they so choose to believe in.

Three people that are always preconceived as hero's to the manipulated masses could be Hitler, Dracula, and if so desired... Mr. Crowley. But I would not put it passed the next individual.

I agree soulshroud many hugs

My opinion on Aleister Crowley is he was a self-seeking publicist, much of whose books are based on, or ripped off from, other people.

A twerp of the first order.

["C'mon Crowley, if I'm wrong .. Fry me.. I double-dare you.. You twerp. Yep.. I'm still typing.]

I would like to see the reputation of Aleister Croley revised to reflect the fact that he made a substantial contribution to the learning of the Arts. He doesn't deserve to be seen as a fraud and schemer.

Oops - sorry for the typo! I meant Crowley!

Personally I think Crowley was a drug addled idiot that neither had true wit nor wisdom.
I find his egotisitcal ramblings not only boring, but smacking of self-statisfied smugness that only the truely ignorant self-agrandising narssist can achieve.

He reminds me of the quote -

"Don't mistake lack of talent for genius"

Here's a link to a website with recollections by someone who actually knew Mr Crowley.

As I have said before, he was not the monster he was made out to be.

It may be of interest to some here that he was never beaten when playing chess!

http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=1586

There are some photographs there, although they are actually distorted in size. The Robert De Mortain pub is not Netherwood where he died, although it was close by and apparently Mr Crowley did like the odd tipple there.

It has also been the headquarters of a local annual rock music radio station Hastings Rock.

I will be continuing my research into Mr Crowley and will post my findings on this site.

Nope, he wasn't a monster, just a sad lost delusional man.

I must admit I knew of the name but not who he was so I googled it and just found an article about the man. Here is the site I went to: http://www.controverscial.com/Aleister%20Crowley.htm

From what I read it sounds as if he rebelled against his upbringing in a religious household and like many today tried to find his own path. Not sure if it was done for shock value or due to his drug addiction.

Based on what I had read in this article the reason he was deemed as "evil" by some is because he followed his own path and desires and made them known instead of hiding what he thought. He really did not do anything differently then alot of us today other than he did it in an era that frowned on his beliefs and lifestyle.

Crowley was not a "monster" by any means, just a manipulative individual. That last link displayed that details his fiesty youth regression against his parents only goes to show why he went the way he did whilst persuing the esoterics.

He seemed to have wanted an entirely differant path other then what was shown to him from books or individuals thhroughout his life.

Hell, he even went so far as to create a clandestine lodge of masons because he was denied the privilage of actually becoming one himself. This may have come from his esoteric background.

That clandestine lodge of masons was known as the Golden Dawn. It still exists to this day as the OTO, Ordo Templi Orientis.

He was a very spiritual individual, but a very maticulous planner of the events within his life. He was no monster, he knew precisely what he was doing and wanted to achieve.

He always had a grudge against those who said he was not allowed certain things... Thus he presented them with certain mechanisms IE the Golden Dawn, just to spite them.

In my research, he was more of a satanist if anything. He playing by his own rules regardless of what others thought otherwise.

He was the subject of some persecution, thus the title of monster by a few. The ways he had practiced esoterics was through the way of the kabbalah. As well as certain other Egyptian crafts.

He was also a showboatist who loved to show off what he had learned. Why do you think he was in so many illustrations pertaining to the esoteric category. He was no pioneer, unless you would count what he brought from the Eastern hemisphere. He did contribute a little bit, but most of it was already here. He was simply displaying it to the world when the other half of the world stood against bringing it in.

Monster? No, madman? Mayhaps. After all, he was also rumoured to have been actively participating in scenerios of homosexuality as well as beastiality. But those are just rumours. Aren't they?

I would have to agree with you, SheDevil. I have never had any thoughts of praising the man or following what he did, however I have read a lot about him. My thoughts on his practices are he was a brilliant man, he was just a very manipulative being. I would not call this man evil because of his practices, although that does not mean I think what he did was right.

Just a quick post here to say that I will be researching this interesting character in more depth and posting it on this site at a later date.

Just thought I'd put here that I passed Mr Crowley's deathplace today on the bus home from work.

i dont think he was evil...but yes, clever is a good description. i used to be OTO so i have respect for him, and was the subject of a damn good song by ozzie!
~W~

Passing by a cemetary that has a famous individual within it is not research. Please dont post if you dont have any useful information to bring to the table... We dont need to know what you were doing on a specific day just to make yourself look and or feel important.

I find his writings interesting and thought provoking. I do think a large portion of the media hype surrounding him was a direct result of the time period in which he lived. He could bring forth the same ideas and thoughts today and depending on the timing, maybe get on Larry King Live, be a controversy for a few weeks and then everything would die down.
One article I've seen called him an “evil genius” , I think that’s taking it a bit far.
I do find it a little ironic that Mussolini, of all people, kicked Crowley out of Sicily.

Angelus, I always love your answers.

I do not believe that is was a rumor that he was homosexual. He himself was quoted as saying his grew tired of women after a few days and they were replaceable. I am sure in that age and that society it probably made a difference in what he was willing to accept. You know change your whole philosophy and perception so as to not feel guilty about your actions as they are not deemed acceptable by your peers who's morals are based on a christian belief system.

As far as drugs go, One of the best writers of all time was Edward Allen Poe.. hmph huge drug addict.. So I do not see it as an excuse.

I find most ideas of narcissistic men to be thought provoking. But, it is what you do with those thoughts that define you.
I once knew a pseudo-intellectual man who's rantings and actions remind me of what I read about Aleister.Alas he was not a memorable character in history. His actions were puerly shock value. Really just reminds me of an overgrown only child who thrives on drama and being the center of attention...

Soulsearch - it wasn't the cemetery but the actual residence he lived in. I don't see what's wrong with anecdotes. Some people may find it interesting but I didn't count that as research.

I was actually in the grounds of the house today, it's a pub now. I had a half of cider in the garden and took some pictures of the place.

You may not have liked the guy, but there is no need for your prejudices to be taken out on members here.

Here's a few piccies of where Aleister Crowley died.

This is the back of what is left of the house (now the Robert De Mortain pub)



Here's the front of the building:



Here's the coachouse of Netherwood which is now on the corner of Netherwood Close built on the site of Netherwood:

I've just resized the pics as they were way too big!

Strange, the pics give off a very ominous aura... Takes me into a state of de-ja-vu for a moment, like someone is looking back at me.

Perhaps the connection between relations of spiritualism, or a Higher being relation, perhaps "Horus" and yourself? which could be personally inforced by that notion, or you know more than you reflect about the arts involving this individual practices as well.

I find him interesting ive read some on him but not a lot ..these were some of his most influential books .ive read part of the book of lies .
* The Book of the Law
* Magick (Book 4)
* The Book of Lies
* The Vision and the Voice
* 777 and other Qabalistic writings
* The Confessions of Aleister Crowley
* Magick Without Tears
* Little Essays Toward Truth
* The Goetia: The Lesser Key of Solomon the King (editor)
* The General Principles of Astrology (with Evangeline Adams)

Of course I know more then I have been reflecting. But I am not about to "go into details" here.

i have always been a fan of aleister crowleys works i find he is a great stepping stone and made the path for fellow occultist today,he has contributed alot of works and placed alot of very interesting practices in occultism

he did claim to be the beast and i believe was partners for a short time with ron l. hubbard who is the founder of scientology,one experiment speaks of both aleister and ron having a pregnant woman and trying to have the devil apear inside the baby as a soul it is stated they did spells and summonings and i believe there was a tragic end to the experiment...later on down the line ron l hubbard got power hungy and the friendship dissipated with aleister crowley where they had wizard battles of cursings and it is said that the passing of aleister crowley was due to ron l hubbard cursing him meaning he publicly took credit for it to further his career,either way things such as this interest me be it true or just hearsay.

I don't think Crowley was evil, it was the press that spread rumours calling him the wickedist man in the world. Crowley was a genius for his magical writtings, and he was also a chess master, and he was a prophet of a new religion called Thelema, The Book of the Law. I think the press were trying to give him a bad name, calling him a blasthemist and a anti christ, which was a load of rubbish, but thats what it was like in Victorian England, because the Christians thought the book of the law was spitting in the eye of the church.

Crowley was right what he said in the book of the law, "Do what tho wilt shall be the whole of the law", " Love is the law, love under will" What Crowley is saying is that we should live our lifes the way we want to live it and be free, to follow our own path in life and fulfil it. we are now beyond the rules of the Christian church, because the chruch is a set of rules which they expect people to follow.

We have a choose in life to follow our own faith, because we are free to think for ourselves, so live your life the way you want to live it. I don't beleive in sins, because I like to be free to follow my own faith. The christians think that people who practice magick and the occult is evil. One thing I can say, there is nothing evil about practicing magick, tarot cards or the occult. We are free to practice magick all we want, as long as we harm none.

In my mind evil? no one of the bright minds of the lhp yes ppl still read his work today do i thikn he was misunderstod yes

The thing I appreciate most of Crowley's work and also that of GD or OTO; is just how DRIVEN these people are/were to learn. Many have called Crowley evil, but I don't see that at all. I agree with xxsoulshourdevv in that his work could be seen as satanic in principle, nothing evil about that IMO. Fraud or not, his writings are damn interesting.

Ms. Sasha- I completely agree with you about Poe.

alot have said he was very intellegent, and done alot of work. well I know of many people who were just like that , like hitler.LOl I mean Extreme intelligence, Genius, and insanity all go hand in hand in my opinion. He was not a monster yet, he was not a god or Great man either by any means. He was disillusioned, smart and very much about him and what *HE* felt to be correct, hence creating his own Masons ... this is another very controversial (sp) discussion. Nice thread.

Crowley beleived that people should be free from the restrictions of the Christian church, and find what there true will is in this life and fulfil it.

~Masquerade doll~, which is why I alluded to his being rejected by the London Lodge in general. A repeated history.

Crowley founded a new breed of Masons and simply changed the name to the OTO, while Joseph Smith after becoming a Mason, created a new breed of Masons and simply called it Mormon.

The only differance here is the fact that Crowley was NEVER made a Mason, while Joseph Smith was raised to the Sublime Degree of Master Mason.

Ailester Crowley was mountaineer, ocultist, tourist, yogi and one century advanced person in his thoughts and life style. he was spy too for MI 5. he was lovely poet too....

I don't know much about thelema and I wish to read thelema completely coz one yogi a poet can writenicely and more effectively with nice realms.

The MI 5 statement is pure speculation at best. But I do agree that he was one hell of an antrepreneur, I grant him that.