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So being that we have established that vampires are better at dealing with energy manipulations etc. then your average joe.

What are the boundaries you cross when creating your own style of the arts?

Do you blend the enochian structure, the Solomonic grimoire style to chaos magick, blood magick, witchcraft, sex magick. Or have you sought outside the box and created your own system?

if so, what kind of system? what are its parts?

I work with my own system, but the system does not involve vampirism in its works.

It doesn't use the fuel of energy from other sources to help with the generation of the currents used within the structure?

I did not say which part or parts of said structures I use. I simply stated that I have my own system. I would call it a Universal system of sorts. Since we both know that I study the Ancient sciences of Alchemy in all its properties, this would give our audience the idea that I am well beyond the point of general structures.

its the similarity within the complex structure, that allows the similarity to be acknowledged between different forms of the ideas. thats what makes this idea so interesting.

to find the key elements that make everything tie together. which dealing directly with "it" is the ultimate aim of all of this, is it not?

It is, as all forms seem to balance one another on a grander scale, whether some believe it or not. Everything ties in together on any basis. But when in the terms of the esoterics, the ties need to be combined in such a way as not to contradict one another. the individual may learn this through experience or just simple research to find out where the contradictions lay and how to avoid them, when and or if nessessary.

I use excess enegy i gain to open my awareness of higher planes , astral projection , and calling astral entities to feed from me if they wish purely for the experience of interacting with them . I do not conform to any particular pattern of belief , or though i,ve looked into many . I feel in this life i just want to open myself to the energies around me and manipulate them to feed me or others , to heal , and further my awareness of higher planes of existance .

The magic that I practice serves my needs and the critics will always remain, yet they fail to change the reality of my world.

I feel that Magick should always be " your personal system". The more of yourself you put into it, the more powerful it becomes...

I don't believe it has ever been established by anyone that vampires manipulate energy, period, given that only in fiction are they so depicted. There are no historical accounts that ever speak of vampires "manipulating energy" much less psi-feeding, either. This was all 20th Century fictional fabrication.

Perhaps such simply does not matter here to most... yet to my view, taking a poll or deciding something simply by general or assumed consensus seems an extremely poor way to "establish" anything.

Well, that is, unless you're a politician, of course. ;)


- Upir'

Upir,

Your not an occult based individual in this sense then. As you think its a matter of "all vampires". I am talking to or trying to discuss with "all the 'vampires" who do make use of systems of energy manipulation".

Read the thread better.

No need to insult ~Upir~, ~Infernal~. He was simply trying to establish a viewpoint.

Though, those who do practice energy manipulation may not have the experience to actually know what they are doing. Thus, few posts have been made thus far by those who do practice.

Infernalmage -

I read your entry just fine and noticed that your response neither acknowledged that you understood my point much less actually countered same with any contrary evidence. Whether or not there are those who deal in the occult or in "energy manipulation," yet my point is that you cannot accurately call them "vampires" given that... as my original post here stated quite clearly and accurately had you read it better... historically there is no evidence that vampires were ever involved in energy manipulation.

If you wish to address occult practitioners who claim to "practice" energy manipulation, I would suggest you not call them "vampires" given that such an attribute has never been folklorically, historically or culturally associated with... vampires.


(And thank you, SoulShroude, for your kind and on-point remarks.)


- Upir'

You are correct Soul,

My apologies Upir, it is a very valid point and I look forward to more discussion about the matter you present. In regards to no vampire can manipulate energy. Then what is it you could classify to someone who can manipulate the currents of the environment to display the characteristics that may have labeled "vampires" the ability to do so?

What sort of thing including natural phenomena present around the times of these "manifestation of events", based on the perceptions of realization in regards to the 35 hertz frequency that allows for the manipulation of the manifestation as presently understood by such research. Which might possibility to contribute to this "vampire as energy manipulator phenomena"?

I am curious, and my apologies again for insulting you, it is not my intention.

The stereotype that was recently adopted by a few as being termed "Vampiric witch" could come into play here. Since those who would practice this new entitlement, could say that they as vampires involve themselves with energy manipulations.

When considering this though, I think the physical vampire could present energy manipulation as a metaphysical practice of other esoteric works, such as Reiki for example.

Just because one is vampire, witch, or other endowement or practice, does not mean that they could not manipulate energies. Vampire is physical, hence they could basically practice anything their heart desired, much like the human counter-part.

Therefore, the mixing of the two would not relate to each other, so there would be little to debate about here regarding my conjecture.

seems to be. Well darn, it was worth a try.

But, those who would claim the vampire nomenclature, could possibly have easier adaptation to the esoteric energies. Whether the vampire itself has a better grasp at the manipulation itself, is again.. Debatable.

Since we know for that those who would claim the term "psi-vamp" ( even if this is a hoaky way of saying that the individual is an energy practitioner and not nessessarily vampire in nature), are capable of manipulating energies better then the average individual, there is no real proof that anyone is better then anyone else at said manipulation(s).

So I don't think the vampire actually relates to the practice of energy manipulation at all.

Just my two cents.

I would agree with that statement, it seems to be a clear division amongst people that there are those who claim the vampire archetype as their foundation, and there are those who manipulate the currents in a vampiric way.

Its just about labels and classifications so people have points for conversation.

I view taking energy as much more a tool for Magickal purposes. This for me becomes essential for evocations and Chaos Magick. Other workings both traditional and personal are practiced as well to do my Will.

I have used an energy based system for as long as i can remember even being interested in the crafts.
Yet none of it is Vampire related. My personal system of an art many practice that works the best for me.

I am a wiccan we live bye a code do as you will and harm ye none

we believe it comes back three fold and there fore i don't believe in cursing anyone.

by we? are you able to speak for all wiccans? or are you just speaking for yourself? and the coven that run? the students that you train?

Interesting question, Infernal. My 'system', if it could be called such, is a mixture of a lot of different concepts, practices, and symbols. I guess if I have to name it, it's an eclectic mix of chaos and astral magic mixed in with some ritual. Funny enough I find some of the new age belief system has also crept into my personal practice. This is probably due to the fact that they work a lot with energy.

Magic is apart from vampirism. I don't think that being a vampire necessarily means that you are any better than a non vampire at any form of magic. Perhaps I have a heightened sense of energy, but that doesn't mean that I'm stronger or better than a non vampire.

Most of my personal system circulates around the astral plane and the manipulation of energy. I tend to use sigils to focus energy toward intent. It's pretty simplistic for the most part and requires little to no preparation or ritual. To me, the ritual is just a means of acquiring the level of concentration and the right mind set to activate energy.

And for what it's worth, Upir is one of the old time 'there's no such thing as vampires except for his special brand of vampire' critics on the Rave. It's always fascinating to see him surface for a few. I haven't really argued with him in any of my incarnations due to the fact that he has his own view to which he is entitled. I don't think he considers other view points, so it's quite pointless to hold discussion.

Not sure how vampires are "better" persay at magick than someone else really.......however, what i do isn't taught by anyone else. I do things my own way which works better because it is more personal. Usually what people teach works for THEM. I normally do not use my energies to harm another, however i have once with success. I have removed a curse from me once as well. There isn't a code or rules that i live by. I do not frequently practice what i know how to do. I only use them whenever the time calls for it.

By we all wiccans live by this code

I teach it as well to my students and they do to theirs

~Nyteshade~, I agree fully with ~Infernalmage~... Speak for yourself when speaking of codes of conduct for the practitioner(s) of Wicca. Not all, believe in any codes.

I use my own system.There are no symbols or rituals.No tools other than the brain and will.But if I did have them,I would know the mechanism behind the symbol that would make it work,thus designing them with that in mind..

Many of the works you listed on your first post are the one I have interest with, as i have been reading them for over 20 years

Well I am not a Self proclaimed Vampire...lol,

Mine is my own system and I will attempt anything, there are no boundaries.

Although I tend to steer away from using material objects, unless I am making or using a natural object.

Thought and vision play a key role.

I have never studied these matters in any depth but every now and agin I go pop and release a shit load of energy that does wierd stuff beyond my control.

In particular I seem to have a talent at sodding up the weather? even my friends have noticed these "events".

Or maybe it is just coincidences...you guys would know more about that than me, is it possible?

TFS.

yes

Ever studied, researched or practiced dream magic(k)? What never heard of it? Now the rave may start stating that they practice it... HA! Nothing like a good dream or smoke to open up the mind... HA, and double HA, HA!