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scionofrequiem
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16:23:18 Feb 20 2006
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The principles of magic is that is all natural. Magic in its self is the very same energy that we live off of. In fact it’s the same energy with us all, if you wish to perceive it, its like the Force. As sad as an analogy as that is, it’s the best way to describe magic.

There are many who use the life energy of every day in magical workings, such as rituals, prayers, and hymms. Each of these gives strength and helps bring about a subtle effect that, without doing, would not have come about.

I feel, back in the day, before the perceived reality became so dead set, the influence of magic itself was strong, perhaps strong enough to actually effect the physical form in a small manner. Yet, as time went on, as the influence of the world changed and the ideals of the mind became more prevalent in everyday workings, the simple ideals of magic became legend and our minds ruled out that such ideals never existed.

Now in this time magic only effects things on a most subtle form. Which doesn’t always take effect right off the finishing of the ritual or the completion of a four hour hymm. Now the principles of magic is that its all natural, which means its neither good or bad. Now with that said, the means on what we complete the ritual for is what changes the aspect of the natural balance of magic.

Magic, since its life energy, has the abilities to heal, cleanse, to calm, ect. So with that, its not drastically hard to redirect the meanings of these energies to do exactly what you want. Not to mention communication to those of higher beings and even perhaps the invoke the strength of the Angels above, if one is ever lucky enough to actually be granted such a gift.

Yet, those who perform the diverse means of Black magic must drastically change the direction of the energy, perverting it, corrupting it into something that becomes harmful. Since magic must always have a conduit, a place to flow through, this often times is the caster, or the ritual leader. In which case, performing black magic, means that the energy being pushed through the body is also corrupted in the body, causing injury to the soul and to the body. Not to mention, black magic has a tendency to be a bit chaotic, causing wild out lashes among those who practice the arts themselves.

Because of this, one becomes marked spiritually, this spiritual mark might go away after some time, or through rites of cleansing. Yet, those who extensively practice the dark magic well forever be scared, even if they step out of the dark and into the natural balance. Now the definition of black magic is anything that deals in the harm to others, such as curses, or physical harm, this also comes down to summoning the spiritual essences of dark entities or Demon. These are only a few simple examples, but the idea of what is considered black magic can easily be defined by “That which causes spiritual, physical or mental harm to ones self or others for the gratification of ones self.”

Now with that said, what if someone practices and gives tribute to a dark god? Well, either way, the usage of such spells in such a manner still gratifies the ritualist in a sense of power and strength, giving the illusion or the temporary strength to do things one shouldn’t have been able to do in the first place.

I do not know if this is how everyone else has seen the ideals of magic in itself, but with what I have read, studied and learned through my time in the Golden Dawn, this seems to be the basic measure of magic and the ideals of the rituals and hymms so made for spiritual transcendence and growth.

- Sin




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deathnitegrl
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16:40:21 Feb 20 2006
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Very good I agree with everything you wrote.

As for your question,let them do it,everyone knows what can happen we play with fire.

I get happy when I see someone who gets ruiened by his own hands.



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scionofrequiem
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16:53:59 Feb 20 2006
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Very much true, yet at the same time that can have devastating effects upon, not only the ritualist, but those who come in contact with them on a frequent basis. As bad as it is to say this, a perverbial taint rubs off on those people, not knowing it, and when this happens, the bad things turn worse.

Not to mention nightmare become more frequent and illnesses. Do to this "Infection."

- Sin



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VladTheImpaler04
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17:06:00 Feb 20 2006
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I've never tried any type of magic myself, but from what I know about changing energies and such, all that does sound about right. If anything else, I must say this was an excellent read at the very least.



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scionofrequiem
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17:08:03 Feb 20 2006
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Thank you, its good to see positive feed back already on the post. I has hoping what I've studied and such was correct to the extent.

- Sin



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Vampiress757
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17:08:53 Feb 20 2006
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This is far too true.. I once "dabbled" in the dark arts and my nightmares were becoming more and more vivid to the point that they were almost fusing into reality.. this was when I was still too young and unguided... I've already given up practicing such things yet that "taint" is still very much with me.. every now and then, a very vivid nightmare jolts me up from sleep..

bottomline: do not mess with stuff you know little about nor play with powers without anyone to guide you...



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MyrrhkuriTheFallenOne
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17:13:47 Feb 20 2006
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That is a very interesting post....
Going by what you said alone I'd say that if someone PRACTICES and gives tribute to a dark god that the emphasis should be on how they are practicing and if they are causing someone suffering or pain or something bad in their practice then yes...If they are not focusing on anybody then I would think no..



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VladTheImpaler04
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17:15:14 Feb 20 2006
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"I has hoping what I've studied and such was correct to the extent."

I woudn't doubt it, if it is. I was just saying from what I know about energy, it sounds about right. I've never really delved into the area of magic. It's a little out of my league. lol



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RavenCraft
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17:16:08 Feb 20 2006
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Well generally the way it goes is that when you do mess with dark magic, which I personally do not recomend! You must be very careful not to get consumed by the dark spirits that can be drawn to it.

And yes you do a very good job of researching.



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VladTheImpaler04
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17:16:54 Feb 20 2006
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Of course anything bad happening to oneself when using that type of magic could be a kharmic result, instead of just negative effects of the dark energy.



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LaMuerte
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17:22:59 Feb 20 2006
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Well, generally speaking, to practice darker magicks relatively safely at all, one has to already be proficient at light magick. The powers one messes with can and sometimes will easily cause the practitioner physical as well as magickal harm.



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scionofrequiem
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17:28:01 Feb 20 2006
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Not sure entirly of the extent of black magic, just that from what I'm told within the GD that it gets in the way of self enlightenment and can pull us away from achiveing the higher self.

Yet, from what I have read about and do know of the pratice of some of the black magic, it has effects that harm not only whoever the spell is to effect, but those taking apart in the ritual as well.

Even with the help and knowledge of the natural aligment of magic and the more directed aligment of light magic, I doubt the extensity of ones pratice into will keep that practitioner from harm if they decide to play with both.

- Sin



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LaMuerte
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17:31:04 Feb 20 2006
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I was merely mentioning the fact that those with greater magickal knowledge will generally be better at protecting themselves when practicing black magick. Not that they are naturally safer from it.



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VladTheImpaler04
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17:43:58 Feb 20 2006
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Because they know what they're doing, and know how to protect themselves, unlike someone who is just starting out, and is inexpierienced. Correct?



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LostinLife
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17:46:37 Feb 20 2006
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I've never done magic per say mainly i try to communicate wiht the deae which can come bac to bite you in the ass when you start seeing people die in your dreams.



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VladTheImpaler04
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17:49:23 Feb 20 2006
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I haven't tried doing communicating with the dead, and I still have nightmares like that. It's wierd, they're the only dreams I have too. :-/



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LaMuerte
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17:58:01 Feb 20 2006
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Yes, Vlad, that is what I was getting at. With better knowledge of the practice, the mage knows how to better protect themselves.



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ZuberiUrbi
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19:28:25 Feb 20 2006
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no matter how much you steer clear from those who pratice black magick, you still feel the effects from their magick interferring and affecting you on one plane or another.
you feel the ripple of new magick, of old magick and of black magick out in the world. its a gift as well as a curse for those who have been dealing with magick for a long period of time. you are sensitive to the energy in the world and if someone is praticing black magick, you can feel part of its impact even if your states away.



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PinkVenom
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19:32:20 Feb 20 2006
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Very true. I agree. I mean certain things just wouldnt work if there wasnt an energy source behind it. And yes that is the magic...



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scionofrequiem
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05:00:45 Feb 21 2006
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I understand what your saying LaMuerte. They might be a bit safer with trying to practice the black magic, with whatever extensive experience they have had. Yet, when coming down to corrupting the natural cycle of energy, I do not believe what previous knowledge you have of the workings is going to help protect you against something that is wild and harmful. Lets just say its a curve ball.

- Sin



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scionofrequiem
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18:03:35 Feb 21 2006
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*bump*



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VladTheImpaler04
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18:49:10 Feb 21 2006
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It would still help prevent some debilitating effects at the least wouldn't it?



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dragonjss31
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23:59:46 Feb 21 2006
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I agree i think some things in this world can best bedesribed as having been brought forth through magic



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skyfire
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00:17:40 Feb 22 2006
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very good someone has some wisdom



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scionofrequiem
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17:14:42 Feb 22 2006
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Probably Vlad, but constant use would probably weaken ones resolve to control the rituals being used in such dark fashions.

- Sin



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BillytheJust
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17:24:23 Feb 22 2006
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Hummm, energy can not be corrupted or become perverted. It is only something that we use as a medium to create. The world or anything in it does not change, we do.



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Illyria
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17:24:35 Feb 22 2006
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Nature and magic are one intwined
Neither could survive without the other
Yet one could surpass the other



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scionofrequiem
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17:45:02 Feb 22 2006
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Actually Magic and Nature are pretty much ran by the same thing. Life energy, a.k.a Mana, Chi, Ki, ect. Just like us, without life energy we can't live. Without life energy we cannot participate in rituals and such.

- Sin



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depressedlifeline
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19:43:57 Feb 22 2006
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always thought it was more the user who corrupts his own energy when it coems to the dark arts, i mean its their wish to use a power they know of to do harm or to gain more power, like that phrase absolute power controls absolutely, love the fact someone talked about nature, love it^_^



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Pet
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19:50:10 Feb 22 2006
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interesting



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randomkinkyness2007
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20:37:16 Feb 22 2006
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i personally believe that there isnt such thing as black, white or grey magick.
But before you all kill me, id justlike to say that it all depends on the intentions of the witch.



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XxImmaticulusWingsxX
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20:48:08 Feb 22 2006
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I agree with randomkinkyness2007
I think it all is based on what the persons intentions are... I have done ... a bit of magic .. and it has worked for me... but it was never to harm anyone.. I'm against that >.>



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scionofrequiem
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16:36:02 Feb 23 2006
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The intentions of the spell is what turns the energy of the spell into what we call, white, black, grey. It all depends on the meaning and what its used for.

- Sin



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corpus0713
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17:16:34 Feb 23 2006
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I agree with her whether black, white, grey, blue, pink. For me magick is neutral. Deepening an understanding to ritual helps the practitioner to better the outcome.

For those influenced by the GD, And please Refer to the Golden Dawn and not crowley.. ( Not saying anyone here did, but alot perceive the GD as an influence of Crowley when actually the association was founded by Christian Rosenkruetz and his brethren in 1398. From what I have read. But the Herms based the gold dawn from the principles of Occult Science, and the practice of the Magic of Hermes; in which case they based their rituals on the doctrines and system of Theosophy, Hermetic Science, and Higher Alchemy.

The society revival of mysticism was but a new development of the vastly older wisdom of the Kabbalistic Rabbis, and of the most of all secret knowledge, the Magic of the Egyptians, in which the Bible itself tells us that Moses, the founder of the Jewish System, was "learned". Now Crowley actually Joined the GD on November 18, 1898.. See the time difference? If you think about it our life force.. The Chi.. the mana is a basis in most magical aspect. The fact is as per mentioned one cannot survive without the other. Without our lifeforce and our elements we would not be a surviving race. Hmm.. (( Ok i am going to quietly go hide in a corner)) LOL.



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WickedWarlock
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17:25:40 Feb 23 2006
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Thank you for sharing, although I do not totally agree with all that you said, I am very respectful of your opinions and beliefs. I am, as well, very glad that you saw fit to share your opinions and beliefs. I feel that if everyone would share as you have, the world would be a much better place. And we all could grow stronger from sharing in each others ideas and beliefs.

Darkest Blessings,
Wicked Warlock



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corpus0713
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17:32:29 Feb 23 2006
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I forgot to mention.. These are not my beliefs.. Just my opinion on what i have learned on the GD. But.. With what i wrote about Chi.. I do believe in that.



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scionofrequiem
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17:43:52 Feb 23 2006
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we all have our thoughts on what is magic and the nature of it.



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scionofrequiem
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17:51:35 Feb 23 2006
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Also just to let everyone know, my post on this matter doesn't mean I dislike those who pratice black magic.

I respect and like people for who they are, not what they practice.

- Sin



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scionofrequiem
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17:53:20 Feb 23 2006
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Sorry a bit tired, I respect people for who they are and their pratice. If a friend or someone I believe to be one pratices black magic doesn't mean I respect them any less.

- Sin



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corpus0713
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16:29:01 Feb 24 2006
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* BUMP *



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dezire18
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16:42:20 Feb 24 2006
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very true



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corpus0713
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18:31:29 Feb 25 2006
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* bump * want to see more imput for scion



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voodoo
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18:32:33 Feb 25 2006
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Very gud job,just like to say I am a wiccan,I do practice the craft,Witches as we are sometimes called do use all energies around us wether in nature or drawing energy from some other source around us at the time.And when we are finished putting all our energy we have in our work we have to replenish that energy if not we want be able to get the success we are looking for,As in magic there are all kinds depending on the forum you use.I respect everyone and there free agency to pick,choose there forum of religion or practice they they choose.Brightest blessings,voodoo



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scionofrequiem
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13:04:18 Feb 26 2006
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Well what I do is known as Theurgy. Which is High Magic, which goes along all the measures of ritual magic and ceramonies and such.

- Sin



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marquisgothique
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People who practice Black Magic actually harm themselves more than their intended victims. My personal experience with the Black Arts was intentionally indirect--or so I thought. I used to make all the materials necessary for others to perform works of Black Magic, thinking that this would make me safe from the repercussions. I viewed myself as a kind of gun salesman who would warn customers about the dangers of the weapons they were buying from me, and then pretend that I wasn't responsible for how they were used. During this time of my life, virtually everyone I knew turned violent, hateful, deceptive, and negative. I was eventually persuaded to stop enabling the dark practices of others and to focus on banishing the negative energies I'd been helping to manifest. My life has changed for the better. It was almost like my connection with the Dark Arts slowly surrounded me with an evil aura, and things began to happen that were making me personally very unhappy. But now that I've chosen to work only what is called White Magic (i.e, workings intended to bring Light into the world) things have dramatically changed. Magical powers are available to anyone who takes the time to awaken and cultivate them. They are simply an extension of human nature. Just be careful to use them wisely. Then your magical practices will enhance your life and the lives of those around you.



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Evangius
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22:31:18 Mar 03 2006
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Why does black magic corrupt the energy?



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Evangius
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22:35:05 Mar 03 2006
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I think you folks that are using this "black Magic" that have claims of it being toxic or it inevitably turning on yourself, you simply don't know what you are doing.

With this said I strongly feel that you probably hurt yourself doing your "white magic" too.



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marquisgothique
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23:14:19 Mar 03 2006
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It's not really so much that Black forces "turn back" upon those who use them, although this is the traditional metaphor and I used it myself in my post above. The corrupting influence does not really come from outside. Rather, it is within oneself, and "black" practices nourish it. By definition, selfish acts enhance an egocentric perspective. You become suffocated by narcissistic self-preoccupation, and the cosequences usually take on a pathological form. Can one ever learn to control the forces of egomania and derive anything good from them? You might want to read about Aleister Crowley's experiences at Thelema and see the petty chaos into which an overbloated ego can descend! The essence of "White" magic is the ability to transcend one's own self. You are entitled to your opinion, of course. And you may attempt to employ the Dark Arts for your own personal gain. Only experience will show you how well you can "control" the selfish forces these practices will enhance.



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Evangius
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23:24:37 Mar 03 2006
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What if I don't agree that selfish acts are toxic? Selfish acts allow for survival do they not?



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Evangius
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23:36:36 Mar 03 2006
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I also have to digress I am not fond of people telling me that I will learn in time that the conclusions that I have in my practices are wrong.

I find it rather patronizing while I could simply suggest that in time those that have told me this could do the same thing, and that in time they will see what I mean in that is the polar opposite of what they were speaking in.

You can quote to me all the famous occult authors you want, you can speak to me about the glories of the hermetic pursuits of which you in your life have studied and used. But nothing matters to me more than the pragmatic approach if something is working or not.

Do not presume that simply because I would employ the use of "dark arts" for my own gain that I haven't also looked into other "lighter" aspects. I like where I am going, I like what I am capable of, I like how efficient it is, and I like that I have the freedom to choose my way even with those that might call that selfish.

Anything in extremes is going to cause damage. How about an example you say? Sure thing, look at the all powerful love deal. Didn't do Romeo and Juliet too many favors.

Or another with facts? How about if theoretically the earth stopped rotating. One side was always day another was always night.

Life as we know it would perish. One side would be destroyed from the lack of light and it's inability to grow food without the plants using photosythesis, as well as the cold that would ensue. The other side would burn up both from the heat and the radiation that the sun gave off. Is the Night time toxic? Or is the Daylight that?

You have to sides of the coin here each destructive in their own right, and yet there are still philosophies of magic that speak to one side being greater or more pure than the other. You may agree with me all you want but this view I find it to be shallow and ignorant.



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varmitqueen
varmitqueen

No Longer Registered
00:07:31 Mar 04 2006
Read 1,899 times

I think the ideals are good to know for reference but I don't think you should dable in it haphazardly. That goes for ouijas too. I don't think a lot people think or conside the types of energy they put out into the universe on a daily basis just living. I know as a youngster I didn't think about it, but now I do. Positive energy draws positive energy I say.



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Limbus Patrum (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Limbus Patrum (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
04:33:25 Mar 04 2006
Read 1,894 times

Magic is an acronym, letters from rites and ritual of the seasonal calender, Mabon + M
ostarA + A
LuGnash + G
sahaIm + I
imbloCk + C



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marquisgothique
marquisgothique
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Limbus Patrum (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Limbus Patrum (Coven)
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05:59:46 Mar 04 2006
Read 1,881 times

I liked what Evangius had to say above about using a pragmatic criterion for determining the ultimate worth of a given pursuit or path. "By their fruits shall ye know them," is sound advice. By applying that standard, I've come to realize in my life that the desire to harm others through any means, magical or otherwise, for ends other than self-defense is a sign of weakness. It's indicative of an inability to perceive the limited nature of one's own self and will inevitably lead to something unpleasant. Whether we like it or not, our own individual desires are not really all that important, and life's hardest lesson consists of learning that other people (even those who may stand in the way of our own most cherished dreams) also have rights that must be respected. We violate those rights at a great cost, for our willingness to do so is one of the chains that bind us to a juvenile stage of spiritual development. Personally, a lot of the so-called "Black Magic" I've actually encountered has been a pretty limp imitation of evil conducted by people with personal insecurities who get an ego rush from pretending to be evil. The negative consequences of engaging in these kinds of power-fantasy rituals is that people who do so inevitably remain magically impotent. Those who really align themselves with true cosmic evil certainly don't make that fact apparent and never feel a need to justify their actions! The kinds of "Black Magic" which I once enabled were of the former variety, about as frightful as a 4'th of July firecracker. Why they produced negative consequences in my life was because they were an outer expression of an inner attitude that was petty, self centered, and deceptive. You reap what you sow, and a attitude that condones dabbling in weird ways to harm people for no other reason than personal profit never produces good results. Yes, it's possible to cook up high sounding philosophical rationalizations for being a selfish bastard who likes to hurt people. One can speak about the ultimate necessity of evil as a compliment of good. One can speak glibly about the brave strong world of those Nietzschean few who Do What They Wilt. But those who espouse such doctrines would probably melt at the sight of real evils such as Auschwitz, Dachau, or Bergen Belson. The rhetoric of the amoral magician is only intoxicating as long as you remain upwind from the gas chambers. But once the cyanide fumes begin to spiral a chilling sobriety usually returns. I don't like anything which keeps us small by persuading us that our character flaws are actually great strengths. Black Magic lures people by telling them it will transform them into gods when they haven't even learned how to be fully developed humans yet! That's why I reject the Dark Side. It will only keep you down. Pragmatic experimentation will prove it.



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Evangius
Evangius

No Longer Registered
06:14:30 Mar 04 2006
Read 1,877 times

I like how the words good and evil are bandied about like candy and yet no one bothered to explain what exactly they were.

This is because each of us have our own interpretation of what is good and evil and thus we can see directly that they are subjective human terms that I feel in reality have no bearing on the real nature of the universe.

Evolve or die. Survival of the fittest. It doesn't matter what you go on or what you think is wrong or right, those that are left standing at the end of the day are going to be the ones who define these things anyway. History is written by the victors so they say.

Life feeds on life. Because that we surive other inevitably perish. We kill plantlife simply by walking through it. We kill animals including other men to have our needs tended to. To survive means selfishness. To harm none? Impossible.

You can throw around all the self rightous slogans of Light and goodness that you want. You can write up posts (hopefully next time with paragraphs) detailing that pragmatic practices are going to exonerate your spiritual preferences over those that you would claim are Dark.

Yet you didn't bother to explain why the dual nature of the universe is very well balanced and that the light is equally capable of harm. Crusades, Islamic Jihad, Pro Life, Pita for gods' sakes.



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marquisgothique
marquisgothique
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Limbus Patrum (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Limbus Patrum (Coven)
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14:59:56 Mar 04 2006
Read 1,860 times

I really don't know how to define Good and Evil--there are a lot of concemptual knots that need untangled, and our language may not be an adequate medium for dealing with such issues. But you make a valid point when you say we can't avoid harming other "beings." We eat things, step on bugs, kill germs with medicines, etc. But this sort of thing seems somehow different from pre-meditated murder, child molesting, Nazi death camps, and Ted Bundy's dating techniques. Just why it's different is one of those things our language doesn't seem to let us explain in ways that avoid conceptual tangles.

I checked out your profile again and remembered that you're a Satanist. Ok--you're philosophically committed to adopting a relativistic stance on matters of ethics and morality. And I have to admit that there is something cool about relativism. It can lead to open mindedness and a tolerance of beliefs and practices other than one's own. I just don't like it when ethical relativists use their philosophy to justify violating other people's rights.

I guess a major difference between myself and dedicated relativists is that I'm always aware of the limitations of any perspective. It's very easy to go off half-cocked and intentionally decide to hurt-injure-murder someone who we later find out didn't really deserve it. Then we feel like shit because we realize we've brought an injustice into the world. This is why I don't believe people should use occult techniques to attack other people. It fosters the attitude that condemning and executing scentence on other people is a relatively safe and easy thing to do. It encourages people to let their own personal perspectives go unchallenged, and that tends to inhibit personal growth.

One major ideal of the magical tradition is for a person to grow, to become a more expansive individual capable of adopting a wider perspective toward reality.

Typically, whenever my perspective on a given situation widens just a little, I see that any vindictiveness I might have been harboring toward someone is unnecessary and actually silly. The practioners of Black Magic that I've run across don't seem able (or willing) to do this for some reason. They tend to hold grudges and maintain animosities and seem to be very unhappy because of this. That's just been my experience, but I do know that whenever I let myself HATE ssomecody else, then I'm miserable. I'm tied to that person just as much as if I were madly in love with them, and it distracts me from other, more creative pursuits. It really does tend to sap your strength. That means that Black Magical practices which focus hatred are energy eaters.

I guess we could go on and on about what's good/what's evil forever. You and me seem to be on opposite sides on this issue, and we're probably boring other readers of this forum who are growing tired of all the pontificating! So I'm going to call a truce and shelve this discussion for now. I really do want to thank you for this thought provoking forray into morality and ethics. I love a good argument, and you conducted yourself fairly and intelligently.

To end things on a kind of funny note: I read the Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth which you have posted on your profile. Like many people, I probably have a ton of misconceptions about Anton LeVey and his philosophy, so I expected these rules to be utterly reprehensible, egomaniacal horse poop. I was surprised to discover that I actually abide by most of them myself! They ain't totally bad rules at all!

And I even learned how to write with paragraphs!!!!








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SatansSeed666
SatansSeed666
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21:38:58 Mar 04 2006
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all magicks r natural and should b treated equally



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Evangius
Evangius

No Longer Registered
03:20:02 Mar 05 2006
Read 1,843 times

Now we are definately getting somewhere and I truly appreciate both the discussion and you making your comments much easier for me to read and reply to.

For the record though I might have a satanistic mentality on some objects it wouldn't be fair to actually categorize me as a LeVeyan Satanist. I just happen to be eclectic enough in my stances to pull from a variety of Left hand pathed sources.

You brought up something rather interesting in regards to all this which I think goes to the heart of the matter. People's rights. The problem with this is yet once again there is no concrete definition for what rights we actually have. Thus much like in a moral sense it becomes subjective to whom you are speaking to.

For instance some people might believe they have the right to physically harm me. They might also think that I have no right to defend myself. Of course in that I am a practicing martial artist you know clearly that I am opposed to this type of thinking. Who is right? In this case I think a majority of us would feel that I would be. That no intentional malevolant action towards me is justified.

Well In that all things are more or less connected why is it that attacks are allowed to be perpetuated against us malevolently while the majority of sheeple just suffer the blows. Psychological attacks, physical attacks, social, economical, all presented in a pretty box to keep us complacent. Do we not have the right to fight back against that? I guess that depends on your stand point.

Force to me is force, whether it be from physical means or occult. In the end they are governed by the same usages of energy. Those of you that believe in Karma (I do not) will be affected the same from beating the shit out of someone to psychicly attacking or magickally attacking them. the ripples in the pond so to speak are going to be of the same power that you put into it.

All action is force. Everything we do makes ripples, thus suggesting that using more of our innate natures in regards to magic against someone is kind of leading folks into the wrong perspective. If we define attack against people as in using abilities against them, or moving them to a position that we physically are incapable of doing so then every time we use magick we are doing just that.

I am not advising the foolish new initiates to summon demons and go after their enemies, or use mystic rites to try to kill people. I think those people are a bit damaged myself. If they are running around doing those things then more or less they aren't exactly in a sane frame of mind in the first place. They are more likely to also do stupid physical things which coincide with this that are more likely to get them into public trouble with the community.

I would agree that magickal use is there to allow individuals to grow. Just the type of growth for my side of the fence is different. We wish to grow away from the majority into an established power that gives us freedom to do what we want to further ourselves from needing anyone else.

As for grudges, I have a section on my profile as well as my journal that deals with Lex Talionis. It isn't so much to justify attacking but it to me allows myself to defend from attacks or thoughts of attack by any opposition. Just because I police my suroundings myself without the need to go to everyone else to support my position doesn't mean in any way that it is petty. The pettiness is there with some people of course, but I doubt very much that it is limited to simply the Dark side.

My perception on a lot of the speach against the Dark is that you get many of the Lights trying to do what we do which is completely out of their nature. So of course after they do something they feel horrible about it and that in itself damages them. They might play with archetypes they haven't truly understood and sure that backlash from those agreements with those powerful things is going to cost them in ways that they haven't prepared for. I know many Light pathed individuals that have sought to experiment in these areas and sure the backlash from it has hurt them but not necassarily for the reasons that they give. Sometimes these figures are affiliates of Lighted higher entities who don't mix well with the energies that they are playing with. Much like Christians or other organized religions playing with some of the wiccan aspects or other types of witchcraft, I doubt their psyche is familiar with this change or maybe good old yahweh is fond of these actions, even the backlash of other lighted energies can cause problems.

So when I see on the boards much of these aspects being spoken about and not aknowledged I get a little wary in who is speaking for my path and making it seem like all the stereotypes that they are speaking about are the only conclusions which can come from these scenarios.

I am glad you found the 11 rules to be interesting. I put them up to show a different side of what the stereotype was. Sure there are a lot of folks running around doing damage to themselves and other people in the name of the Dark. Believe me I hate and or dislike these folks just as much as others that find these acts offensive. The true Dark ones live by codes that are very similar to good law abiding people. We just happen to do it for different reasons.

I appreciate the discussion on this though, it hasn't been often there has been someone that knows what they are talking about is willing to go to the next step and actually discuss it even giving relavent disagreements with it all.



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EREBUS
EREBUS

No Longer Registered
03:24:00 Mar 05 2006
Read 1,839 times

Good post. I took alot from it. great job.



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BelleHaine
BelleHaine

No Longer Registered
04:45:10 Mar 05 2006
Read 1,834 times

interesting :)



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by TheRat on Oct 03 2010  •

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