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We've discussed immortality in general terms in this forum, and we've discussed technology's effect on humanity.

We have made strides in extending human life. As advances are made in technology, some people think they can extend their lives indefintely.

Here's an article having to do with cryonics: Until Cryonics do us part

How do you feel about using technology to indefinitely extend your life?

Is having the choice of life extension the same as having the choice to end your life (assisted suicide; euthanasia)?

How do you think mortality affects fidelity?

i think knowing you will die effects your relationships for the better, it isn't healthy to spend eternity stuck with the same people (this is not limited to romantic relationships)


also I have never wanted eternal life just youth and beauty right up to the end

I do not believe that choosing to live and choosing to die are the same thing. When someone chooses to end their life, they are making a choice that would affect those around them. They are choosing to make it so others cannot see them and cannot make things up to them. Having a longer life, or even immortality gives us the option of making things right and being with the people we love without causing grief. And not having to worry about death would cause a lot less stress.

Think about the movie Groundhog Dog. It's immortality on a 24 hour cycle. Bill Murray had one day in which to woo the girl, correct his mistakes, and start over. So, in this view, dying wouldn't have allowed him to improve his relationships.

Having another chance did.

It would all depend on your personal attitude toward learning, and mistakes.

The problem with our current life cycle is that some fuck ups make an individual's life irredeemable usually because there's not enough time for the person to learn from their mistakes.

Imagine if you couldn't escape by dying. You'd be forced to rehabilitate yourself.

what do you mean Rehabilitate?

Make right what you believed you had done wrong.

Everything in the universe is cyclic. Things live, things die, and it goes on and on with new things. It's the way of our world, and all the things living on it, from the tiniest microbe to the dinosaurs of ages past. Though humans may be the most intelligent species on this planet, we are not above the laws of nature or of the universe, and I personally do not think we have any right to be trying to upset the balance of things. The world is overpopulated with humans as is, imagine how crowded it would be if there was no death to thin the herd.

There'd be a chosen few. Maybe even a lottery.

i feel everyone should have the right to extend or end their life...but with extension, there comes the problem of more over population

Vinzent: see thats the thing humans ASSUME we are the smartest things on this planet, but thats only one opinion, just because we are the noisiest things doesn't mean smartest, next thing you know the aliens come down and inform us that cows are the most wise of all beings.

Most people choose life, even if they're unhappy. Old people choose costly surgery to replace worn parts so they can creep around. To me their lives seem not worth the trouble, but maybe I won't feel the same when I get to their point in life.

Humans seem to constantly redefine "quality of life."

If that is true, then it appears to me that we will become a society of the aged. Old people will hog resources, including body parts. They'll be more of a black market for these parts than already exists.

If a method is discovered to keep one from aging, then we'll really be in trouble because there will be no stopping the resource hogs.

perhaps the upside would be that it would be an incentive to create more resources. with enough incentive, it doesnt have to be a zero sum gain.
~W~

Freezing yourself and then waking up after an undetermined period of time, is not a life or an extention there of. It is sleep, the oppsite of conscious living. You are not creating immortallity. It is just pressing the pause button.

we already use technology to extend our lives. recall before we started to use technology (medicine in this case) human life expectancy was somewhere in the 30s, and stayed there until very recently historically speaking.

but no one has any worry about using modern medicine to live longer.

so why would using future medicine be different?

if i took a pill tomorrow that allowed me to live for as long as i wanted to live, then it goes along with it that assisted or unassisted suicide would in time be something that at least some would desire.

i really dont get the question about fidelity. do you mean with a mate?
~W~

Re. fidelity and immortality: In the article, the husband and wife disagreed about extending life, hence the title of the article, Until Cryonics Us Do Part.

But even w/o that one example, many of our discussions in this forum re. immortality revolve down to people not wanting to witness the death of their loved ones who do not choose immortality by whatever means - vampiric (if that were possible), or scientific.

Sometimes, no matter how strong the love or the bond, when one part of the couple is stricken with a life threatening disease, say one that has a slow demise where chemo and radiation are employed, it causes a change in the partner. You begin to grieve, you prepare yourself for the worst, you separate a part of your psyche in defense.

So if life extension were a choice, and your spouse refused it, would that cause the same separation? You'd live into the future, but they'd be deathbound.

it seems much the same as someone that is thirty something whos spouse has terminal cancer. they both know that the sick one will die and the other will go on, perhaps for another 60 years.

usually when such a tragedy happens, the spouse that survives in time finds another and moves on. they might not stop loving the first that passed, but it doesnt mean an end to existence.
~W~

Resources..resources..

Though I personally suspect that the only people that would be able to afford such options would be motivated by vanity.

these last couple days I have been more afraid of dying than of what may or may not come after death, idk if this is an improvement

Some people believe that death and decay are merely diseases of humanity. Like a, genetic flaw within our DNA makeup, which can be altered so that our bodies age slower, not stop aging completely. If that is the case, and it could be reversed, people would view that as inhuman to do. Others would be preaching (as they already do) that we aren't meant to play God. I think that's just a viewpoint personally that henders progression, but at the same time i can see the other side of the coin that says, people are having a hard time letting go of their bodily selves and hanging onto the inevitable, and want to extend their lives, but for what purpose would this be beneficial to us when the outcome will be the same? We still wouldn't be "invincible".

i wouldn't mind living for a century or so, but part of what makes humanity great is we live so short of lives we work at breakneck speed to accomplish goals, if we lived 1000s of years nothing would progress even though we may be more wise

asura, i mostly agree with you, but i dont view it so much as hanging on to avoid the inevitable, but rather going on until one at last is ready to die.
there will always be accidental death, car wrecks, boating accidents, etc, but "natural" death seems like it should be avoidable.
then at some point...perhaps 100 years for some, or perhaps 500 years, a person could just choose not to get their treatment...and then...
one night they go to sleep...and that is all.

id like to cross post for a moment tho, and link this to the reincarnation thread.

if reincarnation is a reality, then why not just prolong the life you have? youll be back anyway, but youll lose your memories. id frankly like to hold on to my memories for as long as i could.
i would really really hate to lose my memories of my family, now all passed on, or my friends. of events, of my childhood....
that bothers me much worse than the simple idea of dying.
~W~

Again "quality of life" issues arise.

Once I got lost in a new city looking for a certain business, and stopped at what appeared to be a one-story office complex to ask for directions. I entered and saw not only the anticipated reception desk with three women sitting behind the counter, but a lobby filled with people milling around. They seemed directionless, and their faces were void of expression.

Then, they saw me.

They shuffled over, animated, and surrounded me. One asked, "Are you my daughter?"

I was in a retirement home! Or, more accurately, a zombie home, a holding pen with no chance of escape.

Is this life? Is it enough to breath in and out?

LW, now you should know that from the link you posted earlier before that you wouldn't neccessarily LOSE your memories. There are people that CAN and DO remember things about their pastlives, just like that little boy. The only reason why people would get such treatments is because they either need to extend their lifespans or they can't come to terms with handling the passing on process and starting over again. Some people would enjoy the fact of beginning a new life just to see how it would be, you wouldn't be learning anything new if you keep moving on the same paths in life. If reincarnation is indeed true, it is merely life's way of setting us on a newer course and offering to us more to learn from.


In other words.....maybe the next life can offer you more than the one we are currently learning from. Maybe the next life, a new family life, can give you more opportunities where one didn't have them before, maybe the next life, whatever said person suffers from, can find comfort in the next, knowing that when they come back, they have a new beginning. Remembering pastlives isn't neccessarily all too important. It's embracing the now that is, and transforming into more as each new life happens.

but for those people who are unable to remember their last lives, how is that any different from ceasing to be as soon as you die.

It isn't any different, FU. Imo, it's worse, like a colossal waste of that first life.

I'm not getting the reincarnation aspect introduced into this thread, and don't want to see the original intent sidelined, so perhaps I'm not getting the connection with immortality.

Please try to tie in more blatantly for us slow ones.

"In other words.....maybe the next life can offer you more than the one we are currently learning from. Maybe the next life, a new family life, can give you more opportunities where one didn't have them before"

This ties in with choosing to extend your life now, by whatever means. You have a chance to learn from your mistakes. If your loved one doesn't join you, then you will have the opportunity for a new life and a new family.

bm....my comments do assume that we are able to keep our bodies and minds functional and perhaps even youthful in the very near future.

as for setting off on a new path...

what if i really enjoy the life i currently have. i like it here, and perhaps in time i might not mind moving on...but just now, i have zero desire to change what and who i currently am.

~W~

Immortality isn't of the body, it's of the soul. That's the point of what was said in my prior thread.

Basically what i'm seeing or reading is that you feel or believe that immortality is whenever someone can prolong their bodily lifespans. Not the case.

You would still be able to die by other means so indeed you would be fighting the inevitable of mortality.

The only way I can discuss soul is to translate it to brain. So renewing body parts is one thing, keeping the brain functioning is another.

As in my example above of the old folks home, just having a functioning body wouldn't be enough for me if I had to live in the hotel of discards.

By the same token, w/o memories to improve a new life reincarnation is worthless.

Likewise, a soul/brain w/o a body sounds so frustrating. Same as an old person who has their wits, but can't do shite.

anyone ever seen poltergeist? in it the short lady psychic said that some ghosts would exist watching people and being jealous of human feeling and sensation which now was denied to them.

i really found that image to be disturbing. to be an energy being incapable of touching another...

really not attractive to me.
~W~

to be so close to those you care about, but never really being there, thats torture right there.

What LW and FU just said gets close to the issue of Fidelity when considered through the lens of immortality.

I think the nature of love changes in a relationship when one partner has a view and perhaps an opportunity to live beyond the usual human span.

On the one hand, like in movies and books, it could be highly romanticized and the immortal consider the mortal even more precious.

But I think the urge to survival would create a separation: fidelity would become too painful.

bm
i think different people would react differently. i know in my heart that if one i loved were given only a single year to live, i would want that year to be the best that anyone could ever have. i would draw closer to my love, and when she finally passed i want wish to be right there to tell her good bye. if i could i would inhale her last breath to keep some tiny part of her in my own body forever.

but unfortunately, i really am a romantic of the worst kind.
~W~