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Last night I put on BBc i player, as you do and settled down for another interesting episode of the English hit vamp series "Being Human"
Being from old blighty (the UK) I do not often spit out my tea...but this particular series soemtimes cuts a bit close to the bone.
On this occasion they did not disappoint, they mentioned that the ruling Vampires held power by using the Police and their seat of Power in the Masonic Lodges.
This is something I understood was tabboo so do any of the "elders" or those in high places know why this now in the public domain?

im not sure i understand what you mean by your post. i have seen the tv series you are talking about as i watch it on bbc america. i know that some of the things we know about the mansonic order is some what of a mystery to many of us as what they do behind closed doors is not know to the public.

I've caught that show a few times this past week...definitely interesting...at least in watching a naked man turn into a werewolf..:P ..cute one too..;)

...but as for public domains of any secret society's usual taboo info...I suppose bad PR includes going viral with undercover ops videos (aka NPR scandal...o.O)

...but mention of it on a show made for television just makes it part of the props I'd suppose...'bout like Area 51 and its history...it's been in the public domain for so long now, it's become a contentious discrepancy even among alien believers.

However...seeing as I'm not one of those you addressed...it is simply my opinion and thoughts on the subject matter you dealt there..:)

I do not think BBc America has put this episode out there yet ?...it is Series 3 Episode 7, next week probably.

"Though Heaven may fall"...Grinz...

This is not to be confused with the Usa version on sci-fi.
It seems our little Vampire is caught by the Police and they take a DNa sample as he shouts "You're not ready yet"-*swallows awkwardly.
Meanwhile his cop friend calls in favours from the Lodge.

Siver Hawk-Are you sure this is out there I have never seen it before, where did you see it? -A.N.

A/n This is a fictional programme which was filmed in Bristol and now in Wales near Barry Island.

Are you suggesting that the programme has given away secrets about the vampire community?

You of course mean the fictional community...from the programme?

Psst.... his cop friend is dead...Annie killed him!

Herrick is back to his old self though lol

I do on occasion watch the BBC channel...so as far as I know...it's not an edited or altered American version of the same show ..Being Human...however as for the particular episode you are referring to..no I have not seen it. I was referring to the general usage of media that picks up on secret society nuances from time to time. Most of the general public is unaware and although the NPR executive got smashed against the rocks by the conservative tea party, I found his statements regarding poor national education to be spot on. ;)

Seems to me, the only thing that gets hastily covered up with government blankets is the trail of money...the from and to whom.

Excellent points, Silverhawk.

Additionally, semi-secret organizations like the Freemasons are lightning rods for any and all wacko conspiracy theories given the fact that while publicly known, they are just enough "secret" to become immediate scapegoats for any crackpot theory ... or usage in fiction ... that comes along wishing to so portray them.

Let's face it... the truly secret organizations are the ones you have never heard about... and never will. And were "vampires" or any other such buggaboos real and had an interest in aligning themselves with an organization, it would be to just such a one that they would gravitate and not to one that is so openly public that lodges are found and known everywhere and able to be joined by just about anyone.


- Upir'

My Dear Upir...a lodge lesson. Anyone can join yes true, but you would be a level 1 and told nothing.
As you progress up the steps you would learn more and more, being tested as you go.
Only a very few at the higher ends of the pyramid on the 33 degree know all . The grunts at the bottom think its a christian organisation that does alot of charity. They are often told "we are like the round-table" indeed they actively recruit from the round table. I know this as a relative was a lodge Master and I went to a metting or two...even he only knew about his own "cell".
The organisation works in "cells" like the Ira so that if one region is compramised its members cannot bring down another area. Pretty clever really, if you goto Nelson in N.Z. you will find a splendid old building frequented by some marvellous characters. If you do go may I recommend you attend "sunday church", there is also one in London..; ).

Bows to A.Nation,
an awesome post, full of humour, insight and intrigue.
I see Mr Ban is a fan of Herrick the wolf slayer. Still rolling around at your notion Vampires have infiltrated the Masons, its fiction you ....ah ha tom foolry...what a marvelous notion, "but what of the man?"
LOWERS HIS GAZE- tosees that into the verbal affray in the hope an elder speaks.
P.S.
Are you taking sides Mr Ban...puts fingers in his leafy ears and runs for cover...

Alien nation you cause me to split my sides with your zaniness humour. You want to know if I am taking sides?
You should know by now that I like to sit on the fence.

In Being Human I would imagine that the elders would be pretty peeved off by now that Mitchell didn't take them up on the offer. I would also imagine that because Annie has slain one of the operatives that they have in the Police, who at the time was in the process of recruiting the police woman so that Mitchell wouldn't be exposed and arrested as being a mass murderer. Would now be worried that this could well blow wipe open the vampire community.

Though it did look as if Herrick hadn't killed her...hmm, unless that was her last breath. lol or she couldn't hold her breath that long!

“You got one chance, you let me go or I'll kill everybody in this room” lol the plot thickens

To answer your original question

Just as the members of any secret organisation are not bothered about what is said on TV, conspiracy programmes or in the films, I imagine a Vampire community would feel the same way.

I guess it would depend on your definition of "vampire" but some in the community are in Masonic lodges...my question is so what? It doesn't mean they are controlling anything or doing anything sinister other then whatever any other members does. As far as "Being Human," there is an American version on the SYFY channel now. I don't like either show. I find them both boring and silly but that is just me. Why would it matter at all if vampires are members of the Freemasons unless you are thinking of the fictional type of vampire and that would make an interesting novel?

My Dear AlieNation...

You state the obvious. Of course no one knows what goes on at the very highest echelons of Freemasonry except the limited few therein. However, the same could be said of what goes on at the top levels of any organization. Hell, for all we know "Chuck E Cheese" might actually be led by "Pinky & the Brain" and bent on world domination!

Again... Freemasonry has always been a convenient scapegoat for centuries now. Yet far more powerful and dangerous have always been the far more secretive organizations that indisputably orchestrated and then executed the single greatest series of catastrophes that in less than five years all but destroyed the world's economy, plunged the us all into trillions of dollars of more debt (to them!) and destruction... while those who actually CAUSED it were each individually rewarded with bonuses, pay-offs, bribes and contract deals that numbered well into the millions and, in some cases, billions of dollars. And not one of the actual authors of this... from the Federal Reserve Governors to the CEOs of Banking Cartels with whom they schemed... has yet been indicted much less actually punished (watch the Oscar-winning documentary "Inside Job"). In every case... they were REWARDED with money they plundered from investors and then BAILED OUT with the tax dollars WE, their VICTIMS, were forced to pay them by the Government supposed to represent us.

The REAL secret societies ruling this world are those managing the world's financial affairs and mandating world Monetary Policy that determines the value of the world's monetary systems, all of which have long ago been made the slaves of the International Bankers who created and then forced this system of their own creation down our throats.

Today, unlike before and in direct violation of the spirit and intent of our Constitution that mandates all legal tender to be backed and based on "gold and silver," yet today our money is based on absolutely nothing and is inherently without value except as we have "faith" in our true Masters who determine that value for us. The world's money is today entirely created by debt, is backed by nothing other than the "faith" they wish us to have in that inherently valueless money and can, therefore, be inflated and deflated at will to create whatever economic conditions are desired to accomplish whatever panics are necessary to get us to vote away our rights, destroy our freedoms and hand over any and all power ... to them.

We have just seen in the past five years how unlimited is their power and how we, like puppets on a string, must "dance" to their "tune" and, at will, can be destroyed just as quickly and decisively as the puppeteer can do the same with his own puppets.

Trillions of dollars lost, millions of job gone and houses foreclosed on and lives destroyed... while those who caused it are rewarded and sent on their way without being made at all responsible so they can continue to wreak more destruction upon us as our National Debt that THEY created finally crushes us to dust.

Today, we are literally buried under a Mount Everest of debt just waiting for the inevitable day when we will no longer be able to make even the INTEREST payments to our foreign masters who own part of that debt (namely, Communist China). And when the day comes that we must default on those payments, we will be... repossessed by those who OWN that debt. When that day comes, all who have been falsely propping us up by buying our government's debt instruments will STOP buying them. Then ... the dominos will fall.

With no one buying our debt, we will no longer have the money to continue borrowing the billion-dollar deficits we currently have EVERY YEAR! When that happens... our government will collapse... our dollar's value will nose-dive... hyperinflation will immediately result... and none of us will be able to pay our bills much less our mortgages. And when that happens.... the banking cartels, the international bankers, our foreign creditors (e.g., Communist China) will step in, "foreclose" (literally and figuratively)... and take over this country.

This is what awaits us all.... soon.


Yet you wish us to worry about... the Freemasons?


- Upir'

He HEE, yes I did laugh when the value of the Yen and many of its markets actually went UP!

Even Bloomberg were hard pushed to explain this and came up with the wettest excuse ....that it would encourage re-investment and rebuilding.
Who are they kidding, 10 perecnt of the country , 5 nuclear reacvtors, chemical palnts and oil refineries and a host of insurance companies lie in ruins. It will be ten years and thats if they don't get bumped again.

In truth, they will just borrow even more money they cannot pay back (its 100,000 dollars per pereson) because they know more damage is on the way. The value of the Yen is therefore false, steer clear.
Full stop.

P.s. American debt is relatively small but will balloon unless the U.S. and U.K. bring back their troops and start re-building crumbling useful railways and infrstructure ...
...Rather than blowing stuff up and dieing for foreign powers who then back stab/...
Or providing a welfare system for junkies and losers who cant afford their own booze +weed...

Enough of this banter. I am going to speak for myself here as a Master Mason of the 3rd Degree. I am a member of Freemasonic Palestine Lodge #141 of the A.F.&A.M. (Ancient Free and Accepted Masons).

Anything media wise that covers anything on any Fraternity, does little research when investigating those Fraternities. Since Freemasonry is the subject at hand, I will concentrate on it...

Have we all seen the new History Channel: Brad Meltzer's - Decoded? I have and was disgusted with it. One episode talks about the Statue of Liberty having Masonic ties, the hosts of the show even went so far as asking a conspiracy theorist what their views on it were. I was laughing so hard watching it, wanting to reach through the t.v. just to let them know that "of course it is Masonic, there is a dedication plaque at the base of the statue with a Masonic Square and Compass engraved in it." The show has a few valid points, and yet half the show is completely bogus.

Anyway... why I am posting this...

A Lodge lesson from a Member in Good Standing:

Can anyone join - To be one ask one, only a man of good character, who has a belief in a Supreme Being, of Lawful age and who is properly vouched for can petition any Lodge in their area. Even women can join if they are married to Master Masons... wives, widows, children... any girls can join as well, we have branches for the little ones.

Are there different levels of the Craft - Yes, and at the same time a very resounding NO. You see, we do have a Degree system. the 1st through the 3rd. Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft, and Master Mason. This is only within the Blue Lodge. Once a member has successfully been Raised to the Sublime Degree of a Master Mason, they then have a choice to join other chapters within the fraternity. Such as the York or Scottish Rite. We do not higher ups, every individual is equal. Just because a member joins those other chapters, it doesn't make them any higher or more special by doing so.

Only a few members on the higher end of the pyramid that have attained the 33rd Degree know all - Not in the slightest, this is obviously and blatantly conspiracy theory. The 33rd Degree is an honourary Degree. Even none Masons who have managed to contribute things to the Craft can achieve this Degree. A good example is one Manly P. Hall, who was never made a Mason but was recognized for the outstanding work he did for the Craft.

No one above anyone else, knows all. There are no deep dark secrets about the Craft that are learned at the "highest levels". One would know this if they became a Mason and did their research from the inside. Conspiracy theorists give us a very bad name, but to what gain? For who's profit? What is there to prove?

A very good rule that we have in Lodge: Religion and Politics are forbidden to talk about. As these two subjects only cause strife amongst the comradery.

Now... as I am a vampire and a Brother Mason, I will speak on this part. It really doesn't matter what belief system one follows. There are no secret dark rituals that take place that benefit a vampire more then any other member of the Craft. Let's just say that Freemasonry is an initiation into the Sacred Geometries that have been practiced from time immemorial and will be continued to be practiced until Kingdom Come. Freemasonry is part of the Old Mystery School teachings. If one did adequette research, they would realize this.

Check my journal for an entry in the Freemason Liason section for a post entitled: Freemasonry From The Heart for more information regarding my thoughts, feelings and convictions.

SoulShroude... thank you for the information you provided and the sanity stated regarding Freemasonry.


TheGreenKnight: P.s. American debt is relatively small


This statement could not be more inaccurate (sorry, TGK, but it's true).

Our National Debt is now almost equal with our national Gross Domestic Product... that's how HUGE it is.

In 2007 and before the global economic meltdown, the National Debt acquired since the birth of our nation was over $7,000,000,000,000 (seven trillion dollars). Today... only three years later and following the economic meltdown... just THREE YEARS... our National Debt has more than doubled to over $14,233,000,000,000.

In only THREE YEARS we doubled our massive debt that had taken our nation over 250 years to sink into. Like water down a drain... we are accelerating toward our own oblivion at blinding and, now, totally unstoppable speed.

Now... here's the really scary part: our national Gross Domestic Product (GDP), which is the amount we produce in goods and services nationally every year, is right now at a bit over $14,617,000,000,000.

That means that our DEBT is over 97.37% of our total GDP (in other words.... our national "INCOME") !!! Once that percent reaches 100%, once our debt is equal and then becomes greater than our GDP... we as a nation will be officially and legally BANKRUPT. We will follow the former Soviet Union down the economic drain very very soon. We are no longer circling the drain; we are entering it.



All the above firguers being constantly updated are found here at the US National Debt Clock.

My dear Upir...Look, I am not going to argue about it here are the figures from 2009. The fact is the Japs are in a hole heap of trouble. They now have the same debt and less han hlf the population.

United States ... US $ 7.387 trillion in net debt
Japan ... ...................$ 5.699 trillion *plus disaster costs*
Italy ... $2.131 trillion
Germany ... $1.85 trillion
France ... $1.503 trillion
United Kingdom ... $793.3 billion
Canada ... $266.2 billion.
Population of Each G7 Nation
The population statistics below are July 2008 estimates from the CIA World Factbook.

United States ... 303.8 million people
Japan ... 127.3 million
Italy ... 58.1 million
Germany ... 82.4 million
France ... 64.1 million
United Kingdom ... 60.9 million
Canada ... 33.2 million.


Read more at Suite101: G7 Nations Desperate for Big Loans: Net Debt Levels of G7 Countries Approach Bankruptcy http://www.suite101.com/content/g7-nations-desperate-for-big-loans-a91949#ixzz1Gg7Srcom

Bows to the SShroud, many thanks for the illumination ; )

The QUESTION- concerned whether Elders permitted members in the Lodge to come out. Evidently they do indeed seem to , yet none have spoken.
Has the "black veil" or have the "goal posts been altered to the extent that this communty openly admit membership and protectorship, I think not.
Which links into another thread as to who enforces each Halo and is it a level playing field?

My dear TGK,

You are very mistaken: Our current debt is DOUBLE your figure... $14.2 Trillion, not $7 Trillion.

Here's the proof: National Debt Clock

Now... at that URL, look at our current Gross Domestic Product (GDP) figure on that same "National Debt Clock" and then the field labeled "Gross Debt to GDP Ratio", which percentage is 97.38%. Thus, our debt is ALMOST equal with our "income" (GDP). When our debt exceeds that, we are officially and fiscally bankrupt.


As for Japan:

Japan’s Public sector debt is very high. However, Japan has a high savings rate which makes it easier for the government to finance the debt. 90% of Japanese debt is owned by Japanese individuals. US has a low savings ratio and 25% of US debt is owned by foreigners.

- http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/economics/list-of-national-debt-by-country

Yes , but it all depends how one calculates the dabt. I do not have time to check your figure of 14 Billion at present but I suspect it contains pension debt and promises. I will check with the National office of statistics shortly;
Pension debt is that owed to the public sector and thus is hated by richer tax payers ...BUT is not to be included as it is not repaid over a short period of time.(Bonds often are) 2 yr /5yr/10yr bonds.
As for savings and who owns what... may I remind you 60% of the worlds Billionaires are American.
They are also World class at hiding their money and tax avoidance.
Why is 2/3rds of the worlds money in anonymous accounts in the Caymen Islands?
No, the USA is fine as long as the rich ALL live up to our responsibilities and stop dodging them.
P.s. and no more foolish wars !

"Bows to the SShroud, many thanks for the illumination ; )

The QUESTION- concerned whether Elders permitted members in the Lodge to come out. Evidently they do indeed seem to , yet none have spoken."

An answer to question 1:

I am a little confused. Who are you refering to when you state "Elders permitted membres in the Lodge to come out"?

Do you mean that vampiric elders who are members of Lodges permit other members of the Lodge to come out into the open about who they are? If this is the case on your part, then you are sadly mistaken.

Freemasonic Lodge are NOT a coven of vampires. Plain and simple. I would be what you call an "Elder of the vampire community" but others put that title on me. I do not claim to have Eldership status. No one in Lodge is above anyone else, we are our own people. What ones choice to come out as a vampire in Lodge is strictly up to the individual themselves. We, as brothers do not hold anything against any brothers. Again, religion and politics (vampirism being a political status in some cases) are not aloud to be discussed in Lodge.

Answer to question 2:

"Has the "black veil" or have the "goal posts been altered to the extent that this communty openly admit membership and protectorship, I think not.
Which links into another thread as to who enforces each Halo and is it a level playing field?"

There are no playing fields, this is NOT a game. We do NOT roleplay. I am sure that all members within the vampire community will agree on this. No "goal posts" (very bad analogy in my perspective) have been altered to suit any member or groups within the community. No member is under protection from any other member unless they openly ask for it out of being harrassed by another member in their own neck of the woods, this is what we call being "bullied". We take care of it there, and then. No one enforces any "Halo", there are no "enforcers" of any kind. We tend to laugh at that silly drama and walk away from it. Those who think they need enforcers in their neck of the woods, take the community into a game of roleplay and thus are mocked and or outcasted. If someone is bullying anyone else within or without the community, then call the local law enforcement so they can deal with it accordingly if physical abuse has been sustained. Otherwise, we only see it as drama and deal with it accordingly.

Though I don't how any of this (questions or answers) relate to Vampires being Freemasons.

I would like to ask you what the point of this particular thread is? Would you re-evaluate the point of this thread and add a reiterated question to it?

Yes, please do...between vampires, Free Masons, and the International Debt Crisis...

I'm just as confused...@_@ Spit it out already AN!!!...:P

If you read Upirs entry 23;12;47 you will see he raised the issue of the secret banking society and debt.
I merely answered that the U.S. debt was being blown out of proportion for tax reasons and we then presented figures.
SShroud, I did not realise you were an elder and by that I did mean those that met in conference (an umbrella group) who over see what others are up to. Some call it a council some call it elders or a church, it matters not. It is those individuals who lead others and give guidance and help such as I.Knight.
You state that no "goal posts" have been moved.
Look, this is simply not true. I have met two lodge members who are protected by otherkin, one is a senior Mason and member of the Orange order. It was not something that was ever discussed and I have only discussed it privately with one other V.R. member. Are you saying they were making it up?
The other explanation is that you dod not hail from a troubled area and as such it simply may not exist where you are? I am uncertain.

AlieNation, the current National Debt is over 14 TRILLION... not billion.

That's okay... you were only off by $14,199,986,000,000,000.

The figure I gave was and still is accurate and it is now over 97% of our country's GDP.


As stated just two days ago (3/15/2011) on CNN.com:

The debt ceiling: The Treasury estimates the country's accrued debt could hit the $14.294 trillion legal debt ceiling as soon as April 15.

- http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/15/news/economy/national_debt_spending_cuts/index.htm


- Upir'

I think we need understand this is a Telly programme, nothing more or less. It's bloody entertainment, and I take it as nothing more, really. It's well done, and the acting is brilliant

Mel,

The Japanese probably felt the same way, too ... until a couple days ago. And perhaps us here can look at them there and feel the same... until it happens to us. However, unless you are independently wealthy I don't know how you could look at the past couple years and the economic havoc that has occurred globally and consider it all a "telly programme."

Always easy to dismiss disaster when not happening to you. However, the "storms" both economical and otherwise are most certainly occurring globally and will only progressively get worse and worse until they... frankly... destroy us. It is inevitable given our debt-based monetary system.

And... as relates to this topic... it is precisely for this that worrying about Freemasonry when the REAL global economic conspiracy is progressively dragging us all underwater for the last time seems absolutely asinine... in my opinion, at least.

first....
seems every time that we in the good ol u.s.a. copy a brit tv show, we ruin it (example "coupling"), so i havent bothered to watch the american version of being human.


that said, im also a 3rd degree (master) mason of my local blue lodge (ill keep the number of the lodge to myself if you dont mind). and soulshroud is right on the money.

we arent out to take over the world...and we arent satanic, demonic, or even controlled by vampires.
lol
~W~

Ive been following the discussion on and off so far, i was surprised to see AN talk statistics and was rooting for him for a while. Still am on the subjects not pertaining to the deficit.
Anyway, if Mels stance is to be believed, it follows the line that the controlled scenarios are controllable (like.. not the weather and environmental virtually unpredictable tragedies) but things like the amount of money available as well as the news alerts if for no other reason than to... well... keep people concerned about where they put their dollars >_>
if they aren't doing that sort of thing to us, they probably should as ( for arguments sake ) the US simply isn't responsible enough to do it on its own but still doesnt deserve to kill itself because of it, so we get exaggerated problems (probably .05 percent of the time). I dont know if that number presented by Upir would be part of that, but either way i do not believe it matters as it is out of our hands and in a larger, more incompetent pair.
*shrug* i'd like to see the conversation drift back to vampires in veiled societies and groups, i'd love to see what Upir and AN dig up =D

~Cabrion~ there is nothing to dig up, all that AlieNation has stated thus far has been entirely conspiracy theory made up jargon.

~AlieNation~:

"SShroud, I did not realise you were an elder and by that I did mean those that met in conference (an umbrella group) who over see what others are up to. Some call it a council some call it elders or a church, it matters not. It is those individuals who lead others and give guidance and help such as I.Knight.
You state that no "goal posts" have been moved.
Look, this is simply not true. I have met two lodge members who are protected by otherkin, one is a senior Mason and member of the Orange order. It was not something that was ever discussed and I have only discussed it privately with one other V.R. member. Are you saying they were making it up?
The other explanation is that you dod not hail from a troubled area and as such it simply may not exist where you are? I am uncertain."

I am thought of as an Elder within my cities Vampire Community on a local basis, those who know me within the Vampire Community would associate me with an Elder, yes. But this has NOTHING to do with Freemasonic Lodge, let us get that straight and be done with it.

Secondly, there are no "umbrella" groups who over see individual Lodges. Sure a R.W.M. (Right Worshipful Master) could come and visit any Lodge in any area, just to visit and feel welcomed by the brothers. But this has nothing to do with conspiracy theory. We all give guidance to one another. This is what comradery is all about after all.

Third:

"I have met two lodge members who are protected by otherkin, one is a senior Mason and member of the Orange order. It was not something that was ever discussed and I have only discussed it privately with one other V.R. member. Are you saying they were making it up?"

Ahem... NO ONE is protected by anyone within or without Lodge, unless they take it upone themselves to physically protect someone from a threat from someone else. This is NOT a game, again... NOT a game. Anyone who says they are protected by otherkin, ESPECIALLY Freemasonic, I would have to call a bluff and ask them specific questions to see whether or not they are SQUARE's on the LEVEL.

We do not, nor have we ever refered to one another as Senior Masons. As well, I think you are refering to the "Orange Institution", otherwise known as the Orange Order or Orange Lodge and are based in the British Isles. Would I dispute them to be making things up, false accusations based on hearsay or conspiracy? Absolutely. Unless I have had personal conversation with those individuals, I would take them with a grain of salt. Specifically if they couldn't prove themselves to be SQUARE's on the LEVEL.

A word of advice to this, our audience of the vampirerave and who ever else reads this post in its entirety. Don't believe everything you see, read or hear unless those individuals doing the talking or the book being read has absolute and solid researched proof to back up their and or its claims. People can spew anything they want, anywhere and at anytime. Don't be naive enough to fall for the jargon.

I tell you this right now, that there is no one watching anyone, no Councils keeping records or track of members within any organization. No individuals claiming to be "otherkin" watching and protecting others by order or taking it upon themselves to watch others who think their lives are in danger. I will openly dispute any one who claims to be a Freemason of ANY branch therein when they claim something is amiss in that Society.

Please, oh please leave the conspiracy at the door. There is no Vampiric Lodge, no Freemasonic Vampire lineage, no Vampires controlling the Freemasons from any high positions of authority. No hidden Councils "umbrella" or not, no hidden agenda with vampiric connotations... please stop it all already. This thread reads like a big loud of conspiracy garbage.

Unless you become a Freemason, then you may never know what being a Freemason consists of. You may never realize that all you have been told about Freemasonry and conspiracy theory is a big load of hooey. We are always being given a bad wrap by those who either hate us, do not know us or are manipulated by zealots. We are the good guys, always have been.

Quit with the nonsense already.

informative post, but useless bash and warning. the majority of us either know, disagree with, or dont care about the thought that something might be going on.
if someone can prove that there is an organization that does believe these things about themselves, then cool beans, the world got a little more interesting. i always found humor in it myself

Funny... I didn't read any bash or warnings from the post. But more power to you all anyway.

Believe what you will, but until any of you joins the Craft then it is all pure speculation in your eyes. Anyone can come up with any type of scenerio for world domination, it is all fun and games... until those very few take that game a little too far and start harrassing regular members of the Craft, such as what the zealots do.

The modern day witch hunts will continue because part of society is intolerable to things they choose not to understand or research.

My, my, we have been busy, apologies for my absence I have been rather busy of late.
SShroud, me thinkst thou dost protest too much.
Enough said, it is clearly a touchy subject and I think it unwise to continue in a forum seen by many although I will give readers a teaser...if they trawl through the journals evntually they find that to which I refer.
Upir, quite right, a slip of the pen I did mean Trillion but you did not answer my question? does the debt include pension rights and Pfi projects?
Furthermore you did not comment on the hidden wealth in the Caymen Islands? trust me it's mostly American and Saudi although I do hear some fangy friends in Austria have a fair penny. Anybody else heard this rumour?

AN,

With deficit spending exceeding One Trillion dollars every year now, your concerns over pension plans/rights and the millions or even billions in the Cayman Islands are irrelevant.

In only the past year (2010), the government went into debt by a gigantic $1.29 TRILLION dollars in deficit spending alone... which, as the link reports, was actually LESS than was deficit spent the previous year ($1.41 TRILLION in 2009).

That's $2.7 TRILLION dollars in only TWO YEARS. Again... we are no longer circling the drain, we've entered it and there is no stopping the economic meltdown at this point; our destruction as a nation is already a foregone conclusion. Now it's simply a matter of when the final implosion will occur... which will be heralded when Communist China (which already owns more our debt, and thus more of our national goods and services, than even our own Federal Reserve) refuses to continue funding our trillion-dollar deficits eacn and every year. When that happens, all faith in the US Dollar will be lost worldwide and the value of our dollar will plummet faster than store prices can increase to keep up.

Then those who so stupidly sold their gold and silver for worthless paper dollar bills with no intrinsic value whatsoever will fully realize the extent of their foolishness.


- Upir'

AN,

Stating your concerns are irrelevant was overly harsh; I apologize. My point was that to be concerned over such far-lower amounts of money is perhaps misplaced. It is our uncontrolled deficit spending, most recently greatly exacerbated by the "bailout" trillions spent (all of which was money we didn't have and so money we had to BORROW, which is what deficit spending is!) as a result of the very multi-national economic conspiracy of which I have opined previously.

If anyone is interested, here's a break-down of the TRILLIONS this conspiracy's latest attack has caused our government to so foolishly spend that we don't have: http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/bailouttracker/

Enjoy!

Vampires in the higher levels of seat. Maybe yet it could be said about another forms of conspiracy thoughts. Or. The freemasons come on I belong to several fraternal orders that do good for public and communities. Secrets are not hid or talked about yet we donot question people freedoms of their social lives. Many of my friends in these orders know of my fascination with vampires yet it is not like we sit around and drink blood in the privates of the lodges. Conspiracy thoughts to mask or own beliefs in why things are as they are.

Thank you for that Cadrewolf... a refresher from those with half closed minds. I will state this though "to be a Mason as a Mason... one may never actually know what goes behind closed doors until they join." Ever though about that? Might be a consideration, prove us all wrong... I challenge you.

Upir,
I appreciate your concerns as do most sensible folks but all is not lost. The US could simply default on its obligations, yes the dollar would fall abroad but who cares?We would be debt free...
Also the Saudis and Chinese know the whole world works on b*llsh*t including currncies.
It is not in anyones interests to see the Us descend into chaos so they will write off debt if needs be. Why do you think the Saudi king suddenly developed a "bad back" and had to fly to the U.S. recently?
Of course national interests always cause friction but the G7 will contiue to stabilize whatever comes along.
Unless something really bad happens ; )
As for bats in the lodge, the numbers just keep growing. I know about ten personally....perhaps we should hav a Poll?
What was the phrase...."must believe in a supreme being..." Oh yeah, that'll be budha then : )

It is Aquarius... that simple. All peoples all tribes want a fair shake. There is a strong Linewalker force here to see it goes smoothly. Forbidden subjects? Remember when the Earth was flat? Or how about when one our best and bravest was killed on a cross like a common criminal?
We are not here for our health you know... there are other things I would rather be doing than hand holding a brat race into their ascension.
This one is special though I must admit.
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness... we all want this. There are new dreams for old waiting.
You have been here before... try not to drop the ball again.

o.O Anyone interested in conspiracy theories..just read my latest entry under Research in my Journal...the "clean-up projects" are quite the interesting catch as whole towns are being closed down by the government and moneys recommended and much more set aside that no one seems to care to account for ..."besides" all the trillions that are...

quite frankly...after having waiting my fair share of tables back in the day...our government exchanges money from hand to hand without accountability for the amounts appropriated...much like a waiter/waitress is paid below the minimum wage in the likelihood that their table tips will make up the difference...but wait!..o.O now we must put them all into the same bucket and share those hard-earned tips with the other lazy bones that didn't lift a finger or give a customer a refill on their tea glass...@_@

Socialism at it's best...and down with the Unions!...but wait...!...on the side note of this analogy...the table tips are not taxed...your undercut wages are and the gratuities for the Lodges and Clubs to dine in the Banquet Rooms are taxed and then distributed to those signed in on those tables....so it all comes out even?

@_@ I think not...and the government is stealing their own tips off the tables they set up to begin with.

...an no one is putting anything in the tip jar to "share"...:P

Again... AlieNation. Believe what you wish. If there are "bats" in the Lodge it is their own obligation to join the Lodge. Any individual can join any Lodge as long as they meet specific requirements:

Being of lawful age
Properly vouched for
Being a man of good repute
and believing in a Supreme Being

Nothing more, nothing less. There is no conspiracy of vampires ruling the lodge. If anything, the vampires keep their condition to themselves because some of the brothers do not like the idea, or are too old to understand the philosophy behind arcane beliefs and or lifestyles. It weirds them out.

In a nutshell, leave the vampire at the door when you enter a Lodge at labor. It makes for a more comfortable environment.

Now, if you want a key power word, try looking up the aspects of the "Dark Lodge". You might find another clandestine Lodge of clandestine Masons that have a different agenda. That, on the other hand has NOTHING to do with us.

Yuppa, many thanks for the post but what makes you think they hail aquarius?
Just talking from the top of mny head...a self serving secretive organisation, likes to cheat (brown envelopes) and is well founded in power and currency. Looks after its own and only the top knows all about the foundations. Foundations built of stone, say in Eygpt, long ago, with rituals to match? Now, I happen to believe the chap looking after all this power and influence is a sophisticated fellow who is not adversed to alittle deceipt...
Doesn't sound much like aquarius to me ? but I stand to be corrected.
P,s, I do not like dropping balls so if somebody could message me what game we are playing i would be much obliged.

I was referring to the show;"Being Human". Sorry if i confused you in my answer. I take the Japan situation very seriously especially since being in the pacific with that radiation floating out there.

Upir, have you seen Inside Job? it was a movie about Wall Street and how millions upon billions of dollars are just wasted on individuals who basically found a way to commit fraud and get away with it =/
it's a shame, but i feel as though if wall street had a leash, and that leash were kept tight, that deficit might go down just a teeensy little bit.

AN vs Shroud- i feel like you're badgering the lodges ol' alien hunter, there's just not that much going on. If there was, shroud wouldn't have been able to say so much and not let clues slip. unless he really is a big scary vampire running *gasp* all! of the lodges! ! *gasp!* !

He hee, Cab you really are a quick silver hatter...well, I just thought it was interesting this sort of thing was on the BBc (even as fiction) After all, the best things are hidden in plain sight and many a true word is said in jest. Still, it is time this particular jester bids you "adieu" regarding this semi-fictional thread.
Thanks, to everyone for your input. We may not always agree but if we did, our time here would be alot more mundane and alot less interesting-Bows.

And only if things weren't taken out of context, and people wouldn't fall prey to believing everything they saw on the television, this our earth would be a much more tolerable place to live.

Seriously though, if one really wishes to know the "truth", just ask a Mason or join a Lodge. It is that easy.

Still not sure how the economy or the National Dept has anything to do with the Craft, but what ever floats your boat people.

Carry on...

Ascribing something to something unknown is what Nutz do best SS. The very nature of the Masonic order is Secret so those who don't know let their imagination be lead by the most poposterous things.

What makes you think I do not know? of course I know, the question was not whether I knew about the Masons. I have 3 friends in Lodges and my wifes brother was the head of the Horley Lodge and is now Mayor. This thread was whether they were becoming more transparent or had changed rules. As for the veiled bashing watch your mouth, I don't like Metallica for nothing so if you have nothing constructive to add keep your subjective opinions to yourself.

My grand father was very high in the masonic lodge, but i know nothing because it was kept very secretive. i had a chance to join the lodge but chose not to.

"This thread was whether they were becoming more transparent or had changed rules. As for the veiled bashing watch your mouth, I don't like Metallica for nothing so if you have nothing constructive to add keep your subjective opinions to yourself."

Uh, I think not. The original question was conspiracy theory and is as follows...:

"On this occasion they did not disappoint, they mentioned that the ruling Vampires held power by using the Police and their seat of Power in the Masonic Lodges.
This is something I understood was tabboo so do any of the "elders" or those in high places know why this now in the public domain?"

These are two seperate questions.

The first was already answered: No, vampires do not govern or have any control over any Lodge, vampire do NOT rule the world through Lodges. There is no head vampire in the organization like the movie: Razor Blade Smile.

The second is very easy to answer...:

Lodge has not become transparent, it has not changed it's rules. Those who think so, have no real clue what Lodge consists of aside from conspiracy theorists who think something dire is going on inside each Lodge, or that each Lodge is goverment by a higher up vampire type. Like in the movie: Razor Blade Smile

There is really nothing Taboo about Freemasonry. Like there is speculated to be about Wicca, just because someone doesn't understand a practice, doesn't make it taboo. The Craft is not about inhibitions, it has not been banned from being practiced. The members are out in the open, we always have been.

As far as your so called "veiled bashing" if the Dominars think there is any "bashing" going on, I am sure they will warn those involved and delete posts accordingly. I am not even sure how Metallica even relates to any type of supposed "bashing" you may be seeing in the thread itself, save for Dabblers post:

"Ascribing something to something unknown is what Nutz do best SS. The very nature of the Masonic order is Secret so those who don't know let their imagination be lead by the most poposterous things."

Of which could be aimed at anyone, but no one inparticular was pointed out.

Paranoid much?

Anyone who has been on the Rave more than 5 seconds knows myself and Dabs have sparred since day 1....rest assured I had no real problem with your own writings under the name of S Shroud.
I think the Domiinars should let us spar (as Upir said, men will be men). Hell, this is a forum and Dabs likes a spanking. However, the Dominars must use common sense to see when members are "Gang Bashing" or thrashing a New member.
As for your post, oh please, next you'll be telling me Lodges exist for the good of the church. I find it interesting that the very Top have stayed out of this one, anyway, enough said. Their silence speaks louder than text so I will Bow out gracefully.

No... we have nothing to do with the Church. As well, there are no "very tops". All Freemasons are equal, even if we have different Lodges, Jurisdictions, Degrees, Chapters, etc. No Freemason is higher then any other. Even the R.W.M. is equal amongst the Brothers, he may have a big reception when visiting Blue Lodges, but he is still just a brother.

I swear, you take this whole conspiracy thing of yours way to seriously...

I think, that if I am out of line or in contrary to what the Craft is, then another Brother would have called me out on it when I first posted in this thread... if any of the Brothers on this site disagreed with me, that is.

Since I have seen no Brothers disagree with me openly nor through messages warning me to be careful of this thread. Then I will state for the record that I speak for all Brothers and Fellows: "everything I have posted thus far is as accurate as it should be." Therefore, they agree with me 100% on all Freemasonic related context that I have posted thus far. If they do not, then they are free to contradict me at anytime... I have extreme faith that they will not.

lmao, "Dabs likes a spanking"
AN, that's why i like you, you're funny and backwards =]
I agree, if we have problems with one another and can refrain from profanity and childish means, we should be allowed to settle it on the public forums. It makes things interesting ^__^ especially if we can be friends by the end of it still. If anyone cares whether or not there are vampires in the lodge... on this site it would only make them more likely to see for themselves. if it were on a site like landover baptist church or whatever i could see why offense would be taken.
Though.... i guess that influx might cause a number of members who would be misinformed and thus unreliable, if a bit pisst.
I think ANs reference to Metallica may have something to do with their code, or something they said that was memorable to the few who heard it?

Perceptions on people in power or the devil himself in the high seats of politics. Come on we can believe any scenario if we have not the clue of what really happens behind closed doors of fraternal organizations. I was skeptic thought there was more than I have seen in my 17 years in the order of fraternal organizations. Heck next we will say surfs run the U.N or that Kennedy is still alive in some secret compound with Elvis. Our own thoughts of unknown. Yet how people do in there spare times away from prying eyes that is the true secret yet revealed.

Aren't there various types of Freemasonry? Just curious because I have found some that vary a bit in the past by membership requirements and such. My grandmother was in the Eastern Star but I don't know anything beyond that. She was living in Kansas at that time and didn't talk about it much. My family went for the Improved Order of Redmen instead.

Vampirics are like anyone else. They join things outside the "community" and have real lives and generally aren't involved in any conspiracies unless it is getting away from someone who is being annoying. There are other things that people should worry about but it surely isn't the general vampire community being apart of any organization. I know some who are in the Lions Club and other organizations. I find this a silly idea of any power plays going on, lol.

"Aren't there various types of Freemasonry? Just curious because I have found some that vary a bit in the past by membership requirements and such. My grandmother was in the Eastern Star but I don't know anything beyond that. She was living in Kansas at that time and didn't talk about it much. My family went for the Improved Order of Redmen instead."

There are various types of Freemasonry, yes.

The mainstream are the A.F.&A.M. (Ancient Free and Accepted Masons, and the F.&.A.M. (Free and Accepted Masons). The O.E.S. (Order of the Eastern Star) and various other orders of the Craft are chapters within the Craft itself.

The other type of Freemasonry is the Co-Masonry, which is not affiliated with the mainstream association. It has men and women in the Lodges, but since it is not mainstream it is considered as clandestine by both the A.F.&A.M. as well as the F.&A.M. Grand Lodges.

Another would be the O.T.O (Ordo Templi Orientis, or Temple Order of the Orient), which has no affiliation with either Freemasonry or Co-Masonry. It is more of an esoteric gateway with different Degree types then Freemasonry. The O.T.O has been confused with Freemasonry more often then not.

No Grand Lodge views the O.T.O. as mainstream, it is and always has been considered as clandestine. Aleister Crowley for example was a member of the O.T.O, but was never made a mainstream Freemason. This is a common confusion as I stated above.

Did your family ever enter the Degree of Pocahontas?

As well, I am not aware if the Redmen are affiliated with the Craft, I will have to ask Grand Lodge about that one. There could be tie in's, who knows. The Redmen might be the same as with the Prince Hall affiliation, I could be wrong though.

Yes, that is the female end of it. I was first in the Anonas which is for girls. Went in I think when I was twelve. I am presently a Past Pocahontas. Most of the Councils on the west coast are dying out. The Council I went into which had my Mother, Father, my husband and three of my daughters, a son-in-law as well as my brother closed as did the men's. Those that had been there a long time died. I could go into another Council but I haven't. In this day and age most young people aren't interested in Lodges like this one. The men could be members of the womens section as well as the men's but not vice versa. I was in Tippecanoe Council 238. We never did a count on vampires :)

For those interested here is some brief information:

The Improved Order of Red Men (IORM) traces it’s origin from the Sons of Liberty patriots who were active before the American Revolutionary War and are well known for their participation in the “Boston Tea Party.” The Sons of Liberty—and in turn the IORM—emulated in their organization, philosophy, and regalia the League of the Iroquois or “Six Nations.” “The crowning feature of the League [of the Iroquois], as a political structure, was the perfect independent individuality of the national sovereignties,

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/fraternalism/red_men.htm

The Improved Order of Red Men is a fraternal organization established in Baltimore, Maryland in 1834. Their rituals and regalia are modeled after those used by Native Americans. The organization claimed a membership of about half a million in 1935, but has declined to less than 38,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improved_Order_of_Red_Men

Legally, The Improved Order of Red Men is a patriotic fraternity chartered by Congress. It is a non-profit organization devoted to inspiring a greater love for the United States of America and the principles of American Liberty.

http://redmen.org/redmen/info/

I am sure that most likely some of these people were members of the Freemasons as well but I don't think there was any offshoot direct connection. Many politicians have belonged to this Fraternity and most Lodges and Councils are in the East where it began.