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Its not a social critique that I ask the following. But merely a point of reference to tie in cultural advancements.

Since Dr LaVey died, since Crowley, Mathers, Waite, Levi, Blavatski, Cunningham are dead, we have Carroll, and Simon, Weinstein, Morrison as the major contributors to the Occult community. Where do the advancements need to come from?

What would you do in your own life to stand up for your culture and not revel in what is handed to you but delve deeply into the mysteries and make them not mysterious, the arcane is not arcane when it is known. Why do you not do this? Why do you not have the passon that fills you to this end?

There are some on here who have advanced their own lives with the works. But its the perspective that how does Vampire advance you? Because you are a vampire, does that empower you to get a job? Does that empower you to make yourself better then the day before? Or does it limit you. There are many things for myself that stir this in me.

The Ars Arcanum do this, the fur community does this, and my need to get beyond the place in life i have come, to be better then today. So that I have no regrets come tomorrow. That everything I do leads me down this path.

If you are a vampire/socio-politically a goth, and are just a mindless drone, stop your playing, and really dig into your self, with the claws of self understanding. To be vampire, is not to be weak, not to be arrogant, not to be standing in a crowd as the funniest dressed one there.

Those are conditions of eating up culture taboos. To be a vampire is to excell, but how do you find that your membership here, or ascribing to this concept cause to you excell?

Magick is a science, there is no need to dress it in the trappings of faith and religious conformity to something. Things beyond perception do exist, and yet, there is so much of a debate as whether or not they are real. as their should be to their purpose, how we can work with them, how we can make ourselves better by working with them.

As magick is a science, it is a tool we have to advance our lives. What do you do that advances your lives with your art? Feeding on the energy of others that generate their own currents, living on the wills and perceptions of others because you find it is only your place. That is a shallow narrow view of what it is to be Vampire. You should be a demon in the flesh, You should master yourself, and your environment through every means.

You should own your own business, your own cars, houses, and you should not stand out in a crowd unless you wish to, because you have the capacity to support who and what you are. Thus we have here in the rave, we do not have the innovative methods being created that stir the soul to advance, but stagnate in forum thread after forum thread of same information.

There are exceptions to this however, but I am sure that the nature of this thread should stir something in you, dear reader. You should be moved to advance your own understanding.

How does being a member of this community cause you to be better then the day before? How does your life, you in this moment benefit you tomorrow and in the long run? How are you better for being here? How are you advancing your own concepts of self? These are questions I would very much like the answers to, as it begs my curiosity within interactions between forum, thread, poster, and reader.

What about your life causes you to be better? Or do you ascribe to the spoon fed consumer idealism that has taken hold in every non tribal culture?

This is a bunch of Grinchian thinking IMO. I mean no disrespect, but it seems to me that if you ask these questions from your community you must have asked them of yourself as well, right? What are your answers to these deep mysteries? What is your level of consumership? What are the contributions to the arcana have you made on behalf of the advancement of the craft? What selfless effort have you made to teach both yourself and others the Art?

Quid Pro Quo

That is for time to tell.

As my own involvement in this has been working to get my own life in to place so that I can establish such locations of study, research, and development that will allow for people to make use of in order to benifit.

Currently there are 3 books which are going to be sent to the publisher within the year, so Yes, those are my contributions as of this point, getting the foundations laid to not only have a life, but to advance the concepts. I am asking those of others, to gauge the work that needs to be done.

Could you give us an over-view? I agree that "magic" is more of a science than hocus-pocus praying - less paranormal than mundane with practical applications. I would like to see more with your point of view, and I'm sure there are several people on this website who do, but I think many are looking for someone to break the ice.

Thats the reason I ask this question.

Why do they need someone to break the Ice?

There has been no major advancement since Simon put out the Necronomicon in the 60s for ceremonial forms of magick, and all that is, is just one way. There are so many things that need to advance it, to where it will become less hocusy and less pokusy to where you can be taken seriously if you study nature to develop yourself, your perspective and what you return to the world.

My dear friend,

If I may, I do own my own company, you can see it online if you wish www.downriverboatworks.vpweb.com
This is not a plug for my company, it is just to lay foundation on your point that in the eighteen years since my rebirth I have achieved all that I have set forth to do. This was my will and my will only I was not help by any other. All that one needs do is see their goal, what they desire most, and then they will have no chose but to achieve it. This will not happen over night, nor will it happen to the non-believing members of our society, but all the same we have an inherent gift~ if we choose to use it.

Not everyone here on VR is or claim to be a member of any subculture - including being a vampire. There was also some-one that taught a lesson that is of importance here. "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." (Matthew 7:6).

Unless the person is able to understand the inner meaning of the teaching they will only take offense by it or attack in defense. Better to heed this advice but sometimes personal experience is best. Your choice.

Infernalmage,

I am not a vampire. It is my impression with your post that you are asking us to answer what we are doing in our own lives to make ourselves better individuals and better parts of the whole community/culture. You asked, “What we would do in our own lives to stand up for our culture and not revel in what is handed to you but delve deeply into the mysteries and make them not mysterious.”

Your questions are difficult ones to answer as they ask the person to dig deep within themselves. The path to enlightenment is never easy. That is why it is often disregarded. For an individual to seek enlightenment such as you mention requires faith. I am taking a step in faith to tell you what about my life causes me to be better.

Rytet666 said it best when the statement was made about force of will being the moving factor in choosing to achieve a goal. The very work I do causes me to be better. I am in education.

I have seen a disturbing trend in education in the last eight years. The Federal Government is exercising more control over what and when our children learn certain things. We test everything the child learns to make sure the child is constantly learning.

There is a group of students who are consistently failing to achieve in the area I live in. They are the inner city blacks. I saw myself at a place in my life where I had the courage to want to grow as a human, as a teacher, and spiritually. I wanted to delve into the mysteriousness of a culture and understand it as if it were mine.

Being actively involved on the Rave allowed me to express myself in ways that are unique and new to me. It allowed me to express my individuality as never before. Doing so allowed me to see what had been missing in my life. The courage came to open myself up to the unknown, different, and dangerous lifestyle these inner city children lead.

At the end of last school year I resigned my job in a predominantly white suburb style area and accepted a position at an “F” (failing by government standards) inner city middle school teaching 8th grade. We are 98% black, 1.5% Hispanic, and .5% white. I am a 45 year old white woman :).

My students treated me with contempt and disbelief at first. I treated them with respect from the beginning. I demand respect and now, I get it. I have stood next to the intensive care room bed of one of my 8th graders watching and encouraging him to recover from a gunshot wound. I mentor a group of girls through the school. And every day I grow as a human, as a teacher, and as a woman in today’s society.

More importantly, I stand up for my culture by trying, in some small way to make the lives of its members better.

And thus you have demonstrated my point.

You have such remarkable lives, even if you can help just one person on their path it makes it better.

You are the ones who are determined to respond, to prove me wrong, but having yourself supported that you are doing what you can to help your respective communities.

Good for you. :) those are the reasons to keep at it.

Those that don't have any response, are the ones this is directed for.

Threads are for all members if and when they wish to post to them. Please do not make this into a Carly Simon song.
~ billy

~laughing at Billy's comment~

I think however that the message contained here is a valid one, perhaps not so limited to any set group or subculture, but as a universal predicament instead. At the root of it could be the idea of complacency, of being content with what others have achieved thus far and not feeling the motivation to excel beyond what has been already delved into. If there is no ingrained sense of motivation or an external stimulus to catalyze such a reaction, people tend to fall into the kind of intellectual and spiritual despondency suggested above.
I think it's a valid, more so noble, point to consider not only a kind of call to arms for the soul but the mind as well. There is no harm in reevaluating our lives, points and actions in an attempt to bring out about a revolution of spirit that benefits others as well as ourselves, but at the same time that revolution can only come about on an individual basis.
The hardest obstacle one will ever confront when tackling a new idea will always, inevitably, be yourself...
But to plant the seed of possibility in someone is always a step closer to overcoming that obstacle.

I understand infernal as to the point you are establishing, it depends on the thoughts of the individuals taking the context out of line and wording it as they wish for their own relevance.

Whether they feel that confidence is to establish self desires, being dormant in their own mire, blaming others for none movements (place blame name here).

Through what some consider arcane knowledge as they have not studied it, for what ever reason they desire as excuse, they would in fact realize the despirations they put themselves through, thus causing stress in every day life.

Myself? I am a well accomplished individual, as being a Freemason as a hobby, an antreprenuer, a piano teacher...Amongst other things, my confidence knows no bounds. As for arcane knowledge, I consider nothing arcane. I am follower to no one, I lead myself, if someone wishes to learn from me then so be it.

Most on here may be wondering if you are talking down to them instead of inspiring them. Then again, conclusions are always drawn out of ignorance in the first place. Depending on the subject matter of course.

Inspiration or not, individuals should indeed think for themselves instead of being followers of others. To this above all, to thine OWN self be true. Not bible quote...Shakespeare, as this individual may be deified in their own rite.

SoulShroude, Nenuphar

Nail on the head....well put, and very well written for embodying the nature of this thread.

Haha, wonderful....haha...


But the complacency issue, to be lead around by convention. To be drawn to something not because it is who you are and what you want. But because its acceptable. To be truely unique to truely know what and who you are by your own virtue at the end of the day, is the hardest thing you can do.

It takes strength, it takes courage and wisdom to apply it, and it takes the heart to be able to accept and move past the issues that hold your past as your past. Not your present.

What more can we do in our lives to be better? what can we do in our own lives to live beyond the day, and subject to lives terms but to really make them our own terms, our own respective lives, "To be the masters of our fate, the captains of our souls." - Invictus

To deep for me, I'm going to visit my doner.

The advancements need to come from Us. Realise, We are the new heads of Our destiny, culturally. It must come from Us, for who else knows Us better? Who else could best lead, so to speak, than one of Our Own?

Each of Us must strive daily to contribute what We can to those to come. We are the one who direct which way this Lifestyle goes, or whether or not it goes at all.

So, there ya have it, my two cents worth.

i once heard someone say "strive for mediocrity" i laffed at the thought. i strive each and everyday for my own well being to be better than i am and to do more and more each and every day.

"...so that I can establish such locations of study, research, and development that will allow for people to make use of in order to benifit."

I have met several people on the Rave who are trying to research specific areas of what is considered "Metaphysical" and "Occult" to such an extent that it is near indecipherable from science. Unfortunately, each person is doing this research on their own - either because they want to be the first ones with the information or because they're afraid no one else will want to know this information. And yet, none of the studying is complete so it continues to remain buried, hidden, occult.

If there is a standard, a "mediocrity", to which one can compare, then their is a goal to achieve and a new standard to establish. "Breaking the ice" may help those who are studying these specific fields to come together and create that standard.

Exactly.

One can only do so much in a life time, to raise the bar to a standard above where it is. I do not seek to raise this bar, but merely ask the questions which will inspire those that add to this growth.

A new mediocrity will be formed, better then they are now, but still the same as everyone else, until those questions are asked again and the growth keeps growing. We never truly give up the goat.

As your comment about things remaining burried. When my work is done being edited its being sent to the publisher. It will stand on its own, as the begining of a series which will both advance conceptual ideas, as well as give the method to my own take on things.

Not new agey hogwash, watered down with 2000 years of dreary rites. These take from direct communication with the essences, in the style of the old grimoires. Bringing what I hope to be a new kind of ritual from the oldest ways in recorded history.

But that comes to be proven, not something needing to be discussed at length here.

All things in their proper time, and all things as they are meant.

Well the only thing I have to say about all this is sort of laugh. The Simon Necronomicon like all the other Necronomicons. They are hoaxes. Simon is a composite person that started as Peter Levenda. The whole story is too long to explain here but I think it is still in my journal. He has been represented by others of that crowd at the time when Peter wasn't available. He has written another book and Lavenda touted it and we don't know if its his or someone else he is having play the part. Of course if you are into chaos it won't matter except people have weird things happen when they try to use it as a real Grimoire which it is not.

It was a brainstorm of Lovecraft and he got his friends to put it in their writings and even used it in his bibliograpy but it never existed. All those that came on the market later were just money making schemes. I have seen the convos with Simon and two authors who wrote a book about all of this. He more or less admitted it wasn't his real name but won't tell who he is and quite frankly that is because I think it is some friend of Lavenda now playing the part.

Magick is relative and it is belief driven whether one thinks there is science behind it and I agree with that but it has many forms and to create magick ...real magick it takes no tomes or special words but thoughts and voila you send out a perception to break the bonds of reality...your own. There is no given that anyone who is vampyric will naturally be able to perform magick or there is any special sort of magick.

This place is made up of looky lous, real vamps and many who want to be one and never will make that grade because one cannot be made a vampire and lastly those who think a vampire is like what they see in movies or books written about vampire superstition. It is a tag that has snowballed via a large number of people who cannot quantify their state of being by any other term.

Why can't the answer be just a simple one, some people are happy the way they are, they are comfortable in their "mediocrity" . Then there are others who always want more, the desire to learn, to grow, to advance their knowledge.

I for one am not "striving", I am a part of this community and am curious by nature therefore I learn from my fellow members, and I must say there are many very intelligent people on this site; with or without the new knowledge I have obtained while being here I would still feel as fulfilled as before as an individual.

I really would like to be able to this is some well thought out ,eloquent manner,sadly,I simpy do not have that gift.So alas,my answer is simple.
Evolve or disolve.

Evolve or disolve - that should be a bumper sticker. I'd buy it.

The origins of the actual word "magic" extends back thousands of years to the original sciences. It has been used so often and in different capacities that it has taken on a general meaning of witchcraft. I believe the science can be removed from the prayers and a tangible effect realized - not just for the practitioner.

I personally have come to the Rave in order to network and meet like-minded people. If a standard comes of these meetings, then so be it.

Perhaps i'm getting the wrong end of the stick here, but to me the first post implied that vampires and goths see themselves as a cut above the rest of society, as in better than everybody else. Now, maybe that's true for some, but it's certainly not the norm. Most citizens of the sub-cultures mentioned just want to lead average lives, and happen to have that part of them that is attracted to the dark side. It certainly doesn't qualify anyone for superior status.

Its not just limited to goths, pagans, vampires, or anyone group. Its a commentary on a state of mind for ever social structure. They reach a point of growth and stop, they stagnate, and its the act of getting them past that stagnation which spurs this discussion. I only use the references for the Ceremonial Magickal Art as one that I can describe and discuss with ease because of my familiarity with it.

I would use the same questions discussing the punk movment, the hippi movement, the conservative and liberal movement, the gay movement and civil liberites movements. Its human nature under discussion across the board.

But as vampires, as those souls who stand beyond the norm, we should be the ones to first acknowledge these things and take them to the next level, because we are better, if we can see the game, we can play it, and we can make the rules, and run the game how we would have it.

'take them to the next level, because we are better'

This is what I was talking about. It sounds like you're trying to imply that vampires are better than anyone else, is that right? forgive me, I am trying to grasp your point of view here lol

Under the terminology of Vampires and Mages, and others who seek the enlightening states of being that connection with subtle currents from salesmen, to priests, to politicians and artists with their passions.

Those who strive, are better by far, then those who expect with open hand to be served by the efforts of those that have strived and succeed.

In that respect, there is nothing good about being hand feed anything, being spoon feed a life by who ever dictates the conditons is not a way to live unless there is gain from those conditions, and to the character of the individual.

As people are defined by their acts that make them better, you are not simply better because you are better. But you are better because you strive to be the best at what you are able. Not limiting yourself to a stopping point, but pushing the ideal of a limit to its end, where all limits cease to be, and all just is.

So just because you adhere to the ideals of a subculture doesn't earn you a higher mark amongst the rest of the herd, but because you strive to better yourself, and provide a path that will inspire others to some end proves that you are better then those who do nothing for themselves.

Its the condition under the circumstance, not a gaurenteed title handed out to the worthy, but one earned through the trials, and tests of life which only experiences provide, so one is best able to deal with what they have under the conditions to which they find themselves in. Be it if they need the help of others to get there, so long as they themselves reach as high as they can, and seek to build their lives in ways which can only bring development and progress to them, and any community in which they live.

well i have an answer .. every body i 've met wants to learn some thing new even if they dont even try no matter what it is.. inless i cant say it .. yes i can inless a person is straight up dumby and cant learn.. but im not discrimanating here..

then you should make the attempt to get them to walk their walk, not just talk a pretty talk.

I clicked on the VampireRave link looking for a repository of vampire lore and arcana. I expected to find links, and not of the social networking variety. That aspect has turned out to be a bonus.

Yes, the Forums can be frustrating, amusing and occasionally enlivening. Over time, voices stand out and those are the ones I read, assured that something will be made clear, if only to point me in the direction of new research.

I mind less the vague or outlandish contribution, than the condescending comment from those hinting at wider knowledge with no specific immediate sharing.

Upon what I am reading throughout this entire thread, the only thing that comes to mind after all the hogwash of lead not follow of the aspects of society as we all know it to be mindless and less absorbant is a game.

The game of chess, where you alone have control over the game, including the result. Whether it be stale mate, or check mate, whether you wish to move the rook, or play as a pawn. Let the honourable knight take charge and move his four squares to take out the bishop, or plain out check the queen.

Pawn or queen, there is always a choice to be made. The only quote I have for you ironically since this is a vampire site is an old quote from the Legacy of Kain video game.

"Indeed. Such narrow vision. Don’t you see? Its calculated repercussions, is but the first act in my theatre of Grand Guignol. Of which you are the tragic hero.

Play on, little vampire, play on . . . "