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Sociological Theories view all behavior – deviance as well as conformity – as product of society.
Sociologists point out that:
- what is deviant varies from place to place according to cultural norms
- behavior and individuals become deviant as others define them that way
- what and who a society defines as deviant reflect who has and who does not have social power

Based on the above information, how does a sociological view differ from the commonsense notion that bad people do bad things?

Please use VR related topics when discussing.

For starters, do you think man people here in VR, by definition are social deviants? Do you think that “outsiders” would consider the Vampire lifestyle deviant? Why?

Considering the deviation from the standard norm is straight forward non-comformity, then the social protocol within anti-social groups would be considered the law of the jungle.

As most of the youth of the nation within the Rave are not accepting most social norm, as well as those of the unknown such as vampiric, or other...Would be considered as well as looking for someplace to fit in that fits to their own personal liking.

Personally, I would consider this to be just plain picky. There is a deviance within the society we call the Rave I agree, but most of the time, most of the individuals seem as though they are still lost within the crowd not wanting to accept anything including our social norm.

Point being...You cannot please everyone.

True.

In the 60's the Hippies were the counter culture.

In this millenium it would seem that the Goth and Vampire communities are or have become one of today's counter cultures. They reject most of the current convential values, ideas and behavior in today's society. In doing so many, although misguided are exploring who they are on their own level, but on a much less personal level than in the 60's due mostly to the technology at their disposal.

More specifically what I am putting up for discussion is what I just posted. Is it accurate to say that this vampire culture has rejected the norm, the values and ideas of the larger society?

Yes, this does seem to be a much darker rendition of the earlier decades atmosphere. I would much rather have the "goth" crowd running rampant than the tree hugging "flower power" pestilance society called the "hippy" running amuck...The only thing I remember from them were pricket signs, trying to fight for something that was completely out of their league.

At least our modern day "goths" fight for what they believe in, in a much more influenced atmosphere. Though the dark half does breed more distruction, the lighter half was just annoying.

Though both sides seem to be the same, just differant attitudes if you ask me.

Oh, and for the second part of the main posts question...

I see deviation within the community as it struggles with comformity towards the "vampire" ways, but again, this is still reaching out for attention on a much differant scale than ealier generations did. Not sure what to call it within the socialogical structure, or psychologically...Since the terms "satanist", "witch", "sinner" and other key words come to play for the poor "children of the night".

But then, we did bring that upon ourselves...It is all in the eye of the beholder of what social perception wishes to manipulate to either their liking or hating ways.

The norm, well it depends on if we are talking role playing or if we are talking drinking blood flying around or even reiki.
Most people dont think any of this is normal.
But on the other hand i beleve more and more people are becoming are opening up thier minds to it.

Well no duh anybody who is on this site is seen as a deviant. I learned this a while ago, that we are aginst all norms. If we were in an African tribe drinkng bloodwould be THE NORM. So we wouldn't be seen as a deviant. In our society our culture doesn't accept vampires or any mythological beings of any sort. It scares them out of what they are used to, their safety zone.

While I agree, mostly, not everyone here would be considered deviant just for being a member. In some sense I guess one could say membership alone is somehow deviant; Guilty by association. There are many members here that do not claim to be vampires or participate in any vampire acts. As mere observers in a community this alone does not make them a social deviant. What about the purist Vampire fans that are here for the ‘love of the lore’ alone? Surely they are no more deviant than a die hard Sherlock Holmes fan.

You said it perfectly! I completely agree!!!!!

I would'nt use the phrase social devient.

In this day and age more and more people are coming to terms with different lifestyle choices.

I'm not sure how those who actually believe they are 'real' vampires would be described though.

Sinora puts it very well when she says that different lifestyles are being tolerated easilier.

As for anyone on the rave being deviant, I think not, I personally have never been judged for using and being a member on VR.

Sociology is in some ways facinating but on some points a bit outdated.

I think it is in the eye of the beholder, if you are tolerant then you do not mind.

I think more and more people are able to accept what used to be considered deviant as more normal.

Years ago, if you dressed in black, wore black makeup, etc you were a devil worshiper. Now, you're just labeled 'goth' which I believe is a less harsh label. Years ago, it was sooooo bad to be gay or lesbian, now more and more people are more accepting of it.

There are still pig headed people out there but they are getting fewer and father between.

there will always be someone who is pig headed and will think people who wear black are evil and such. but it is true, more and more people are starting to accept "goths"

Not just goths, they're starting to be more accepting of lots of 'alternative' things.

Years ago, you didn't get a tattoo unless you were a sailor. If you weren't a sailor, you were trashy, etc. Now look how many people have tattoos!

this is a quick to label problem, so many in the so called normal community often regard anything ouside of their dule uninteresting lives as deviant or wrong.

In the VR you have a conglomeration of people who have many views. This is why the threads are often difficult to answer because some are speaking of fictional vampires, others are not but they dwell entirely too much on blood. That's not the issue...energy is the issue.

Other than knowing they are vampyrics there are many that are people who blend into society that you would never recognize as anything but "the neighbors" since some are not Goth or only dress on weekends.

The hippies were not that prevalent in the 60s they were just hyped by the news media and the dress and style became commonplace and most who wore it were not hippies. They were not ALL into love. Many went to the San Francisco area and got involved in the occult and some joined up with LaVey so there were many dark occult things going on and perceptions even then...a counterculture forming that was unlike the Beat Generation which was basically literary.

Today you have cable, satellite and the internet and news reaches around the world and thoughts and movements are more accessible by the many than rather the few. We have a lot of people who like to experience what they think is exciting or the in-crowd and a few generations down of the Goth movement which I believe to be a bit different than the original. All of these have intermixed with the vampyre community who have sort of come out one might say but much more openly in the USA.

What I am noticing is the fetish intermixing which some think is the norm but its not...its a personal choice and I see a lot of the profiles portraying blood and guts and bondage which really is a side issue as far as the vampyre community but I see it here and some are so grisly I just move on by. I am appalled that kids under 18 are so fascinated by this stuff and can see why children are now killing children and adults. I think some of this is desensitizing society and should not be accepted as the norm in the vampyre or otherkin communities but we do draw those with interest that are slightly prurient but to each their own I say.

It is no different here than anywhere else except here they have much younger people posting these things than most other places will allow.

Deviancy by definition is to deviate from behavior not considered the norm for the society in which it is exhibited. Thus deviancy is a term of sociological relativism, being relative to the society by which the deviant behavior is defined. Of course, to properly determine a behavior as "deviant" first requires and presupposes that we have established parameters for "normal " behavior... and therein lies the "rub," as it were. For unless we can definitively set such "norm"-ative behavioral standards, we cannot declare anything as "deviant" even in such relativistic terms as would pertain to the society in question.

Errr... that is...

Deviancy by definition is to deviate from behavior considered the norm ...

I feel deviance is not used correctly enough...all the things labeled as evil most are deviant only.

Evil is a label people with religious idealology assign to things they want their god to deal with,removing the subject from the social concerns catagory,and putting it in a spirit realm.We really are setting ourselfs up for a deviant fall out from all the unaddressed filth that has gone unchecked.

I think that socially, deep down, every living thing views things other than what they themselves believe to be wr9ong. it's a sense of pride in your beliefs in a way.

I also feel each subculture sets the bar for the next...example going from ear piercing to nipples to ...

It would depend on what one considers to be a deviant.

But I would say most here would definitly be non-mainstream. I know personally I am not a conformist. Deviant or not, I would never give up my lifestlye I am comfortable in who I am.

i agree with nocturnal godess on this one

I appreciate everyone's response here.

It's interesting to watch how things unfold in the real world. Outside of VR the general reaction to me saying "I was on Vampire Rave the other day and..." is usually one of disdain. If I were to say the same thing about a cyber-porn community I may get a smirk or questioning look but it is almost acceptable. For some reason witches and vampires just don’t fit in to the comfort zone of most people’s psyche. So to the outside world where the norm is not as it is here in VR we are deviant. Now, inside of VR there is a social norm and people that deviate from that as well. It's all a lot of sociological babble. I just kind of find it fascinating.

what everyone call norm will be different from everyone else so we cant say to much about that one.

16 years ago my sister and her husband with a new baby moved to the 'burbs of Atlanta, Georgia to a lovely neighborhood. The first two weeks they were there all the neighbors were wonderfully friendly and helpful - but all badgered my sister and brother in law with what church will they join? They told everyone that they did not attend church... once that was said - they were ostracized by the whole neighborhood - they were not fitting in the 'norm' and were not within the mainstream comfort zone for that area.

Do I consider the social group here in VR deviant? Yes. Because we are people of a different lifestyle.
Deviation is looked at as bad for the simple reason of it being deviation. Which is to stray away from a given path or example. To leave the norm and explore.
Those who live outside the norm are considered deviants.

Would you consider yourself Tego??

And all so even in the hippie days as in now the reason we make these societies is because we are rejected.

So we look for some solice in it and find it in communties such as these because we feel home in them.

I'm confused as to the 'man people' part of the first post.

But no, I don't believe most people on VR are deviants. There may be a few here and there, though.