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What makes the laws of alchemy so complex and why are so many people inclined to dismiss alchemy as a way of life, it can pertain to the soul/spirit and modern medicine, so my question is this, what do you know about alchemy and the many uses it has today, and if you could look into the mind of the past alchemists what do you think you would find?

I know alchemy as the roots of chemistry. I am a chemist by training.

The one thing I do know about alchemy is that an alchemist accidentally discovered gunpowder while trying to develop the elixir of immortality. I don't think he could have been farther off considering all the destruction gunpowder has caused over the centuries.

I find it ironic that the witches hammer was designed to find and destroy people able to alter gods work…. Ie a witch.
However if one was to study alchemy and change things to gold it was overlooked that one is changing gods work lol
Odd old world …

Alchemists discovered sulfuric acid, nitric acid, hydrochloric acid, phosphorous, and many other chemicals used today in chemistry.

In truth, I have been a Sacred Geometrist for the most part of my life...30 years. The meaning of Alchemical science is differant for every individual since it reaches into two differant facets: Physical, which is the objective transmutation of base metals into gold, and spiritual, this being the subjective transmutation of the self, into the higher self or "god self".

Many within certain cults believe these two definitions are one and the same. The aspect of the physical base metals to many within the studies find the definition an allegory for the spiritual definition, just easier to explain in the long run.

If you take a look at Enochian texts and or magic(k)s, you may gain an understanding for a certain symbol called "the tree of life". This base tree is a foundation per say to that of the higher self aspect.

Just remember when researching differant areas of the Sacred Geometries...Everthing is connected. There are no if's and's or buts about it.

If any individual wishes to dwelve deeper into this area of research, feel free to ask within this thread and I will be more than happy to help out. No offense of the owner of this thread.

I started a thread on sacred geometry quite a few months ago actually. However, very few seemed interesed and it quickly faded into the background.

Yeah, I remember the thread. Not many get the aspects of the Sacred Geometries, they seem to be more infatuated with the fantasy of other things rather than certain realities that could have results from those fantasies on a very real basis.

This has been said well by those already here. Alchemy blends the physical and the spiritual to their highest point. Breaking down the is, to create the Is-to-be. The theoretical limit to what is possible from a single source material.

If you study cosmology, you will come to find a greater alchemie laying in not only the history of the gods, and men, but also in the cosmos as well. The creative functions of development of something to its highest form.

Take for example Wine.

The radation and other waves which come off the sun (which is a burning ball of gas) and it comes down and though remarkable processes grows grapes, full and ripe. Then with sugars, and yeasts, transmutes said grapes and fruits into some of the most delicious liquors on the planet.

It takes one state, breaks it down through process and rebuilds it over again. To then create something from this wine, you further expose it to the suns rays, and you have vinegar, a form of acid. Which you can then use to break down other materia, and from it create again, and so on. Breaking things down to their vital salts, adding a new mercurial spirit and then blackening them before you bring out the inner gold.

The inner circulation of the currents, and the exterior transmutation of the matter. It takes more then a lifetime to see these works in all their aspects, and for some, a lifetime is not long enough, thus chemically engineering ways to prolong the chemical process which is life through natural means.

Vampirism, at least a form of it, becomes in part the study of the alchemist. To transmute that living pranic flow within another body, into the wine of life which will sustain the decaying body past its normal experation date. Much like salt preserves meat.

Very well stated Infernal, and quite the analogy for the vampire as it relates to the transmutation of the self. Though spiritual vampirism is not nessessarily a higher self factor, it does come into play when dealing with the higher self. Just one of many many facets that I stated prior.

It merely depends on which area of the Sacred Geometries suites the individuals desire and or need. But, if the individual is quite serious to the studies and research invested within the structure of Sacred Geometry, then said individual may gain a higher contrast of the arcane knowledge that is the Universal Alchemy.

No harm done by your words,I posted this thread to gain a better understanding of why alchemy is a forgotten art.I wish to better my knowledge about the way people regardless of the outright realization of it use alchemy,such as in passing on and the search for the higher self.

Actually Sacred Geometry has not been forgotten, just overlooked. A good place to start would be to aquire a book called: St. Germain on Spiritual Alchemy, The Transmutation of The Self. Another would be Enochian Magic, a Practical Manual. These two books bond well with one another.

Until I'd met you soulshroude, I'd always concidered alchemy to be simply a material transformation, and having little or no desire for wealth or power (outside of being able to help your friends when they need it) I had given it little concideration.

I supose all forms of human achievement are yoga and have layers of enlightenment like an onion for those with eyes to see and the patience to persevere .

I supose alchemy would have several negatives as to why it has little following.

Most people have not the discipline, in this quick fix world of ours, to dedicate themselves to the study of a tradition that has seen no practical rewards in the last 5000 years.

Even should some base element be transformed to gold, it is presumed that the value of gold would be naught and therefore the purpose self defeating.

It is probably more important that the process has more reward than the end result, as the end result has no value except to the one who engaged in the process.

I see no negatives, just dismissal for something not likely to be concentratetd on out of pure ignorance. The ignorance to judge a book by its cover alone and not being able to understand the pages within. Shouldered by this ignorance, is not nessessarily a bad thing...Some within society just choose not to understand as it seems to contradict some forms of idealism.

True, only the serious and in need of disipline need only apply, but when the pages are understood, all could benefit. Sacred Geometry is complex for a reason. For this reason, it is always overlooked as well as mistaken for the base metal theory and nothing more.

The first law of alchemy is this,"Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange." It's an equation. Your output has to be of equal mass and materials to what you started with. The base elements have to be similar,therefor aside from being an actual physical and material law, the principle of Equivalent Exchange is also a social law.The world isn't perfect, and the law is incomplete. Equivalent Exchange doesn't encompass everything that goes on here. But I still choose to believe in its principle: that all things do come at a price. That there's an ebb, and a flow, a cycle. That the pain I went through did have a reward and that anyone who's determined and perseveres will get something of value in return, even if it's not what they expected.The physical principle of Equivalent Exchange in the transmutation of matter is an absolute truth. It is impossible to generate matter where none existed before - even though use of a Philosopher's Stone is thought to supersede the law, this is not truly the case.Beyond this, however, the many hardships lead me to question how viable it is as a way to live one's life. I've seen many individuals put hard work in, only to be met with no reward, and see many lives sacrificed in the name of individuals - situations in which no equivalency appears to exist. After being confronted with this I finally concluded that the world was too complex a place for the law to apply to everything in life, and too imperfect for one law to explain everything, but I still chose to believe in the principle the law represents.

Truthfully, I have never heard of any "Laws" partaining to Sacred Geometry. There has never been a quid pro quo involving such an area of study.

Alchemy is not just another means of gaining that extra boost of whathaveyou, it is a way of reaching out to the Universe to take the energy that is yours in the first place, freely without conflict or loss.

The basis of Spiritual Alchemy, is the desire for self growth, both on the physical and spiritual, to transcent into a higher self, state of mind. Not to feel that the individual is better than another, but to gain a confidence that even dear old dad could not give.

This is a largely misunderstood area of study, which does require alot of research and participation. Any precipitation process whether it be for personal growth or for the world that surrounds the self, is for the better...Nothing will be lost in the process, trust me on this.

If Alchemy is to do with chemistry there can be some good and bad. The good is medicines that can be developed. The bad is also chemicals rthat can harm

from the comments in the thread it sounds like alchemy has more to do with a way of life than actual chemistry. is this true?

I meant negative from the point of view of the lazy bastard watching tv and accepting that everything his political candidate or News Network tells him is true.

Wouldn't the golden ration essentially be a "law" in sacred geometry since it is a mathematical formula? I could be wrong.

i suggest every1 read the book The Alchemist.. it was really kool and told a story about a young alchemist that learned to turn himself into the wind.. the book is well written

M7y opinion is that Alchemy is a form of chemistry. And just like everything else, some are better skilled at it than others. Think of it as cooking...but with different ingredients. All can kill or heal depending on how combined and the given reaction. I do however feel that if we could look in to past alchemists minds...we'd actually have a better future than we do now.

Its a form of witchcraft that turns metal into gold or silver. Its a chemical process!!!!

if you could look into the brains and minds of alchemists of the past you would find a lot of mercury poisoning and the madness it causes.

Lead can't be turned into gold.

Equivalent exchange. You must give something of equal or higher value.

Alchemy seems to be more of a type of science, not a way of life.

alchemists attempted to join spiritualism with hard science and failed at both. The philosophers stone is myth. Chemistry and physics are reality.

I think most fear what they don't understand,and as for the philosophers stone being a myth you are very wrong,most of my family studied alchemy and there was a school the transmuted a mass of gold,I will get you a link.Just be pacient with me please.I know alchemy works because I lost a limb tring to save a friend thank you.

I would just say that it is a type of chemistry that has more flexibility when it comes to changeing one thing into another. But there are firm requirements that must be followed. That is what I understand Alchemy to be.

You took the word out of my mouth SarraS!

oops my image did not show up shall return with image

Thank you all for your posts and the alchemy circle is almost the same as the layout I used when I lost half of my face.I was still just learning about the art and got confused,I wasn't able to do much but my friend is alive because I made a sacrifice for him.

Your "contents of an adult body" come well short of an average body's weight.

And, pray, what's "carban".

I'm assuming thats supposed to be carbon. Also, I didn't see any mention of calcium either.

It doesn't make sense nor add up ...

Let's see:
Silicone, something women use as breast implants ... the chemical element is to be found in the human body, about 20mg per kg mass. Let's see: 3g gives me a necesary bodymass of 150kg ...

Sulfer, erm, sulphur ?
but then what's Sullfer?

And the hoot, sorry, Salt Peter !?

;->

I'm more confused by this thread than usual. Do you think that has anything to do with why Alchemy is only studied as a theoretical science now for the most (sensible) part?

Alright, I am going to have to interject here for a bit of clarity regarding responses of alleged alchemical works.

First off, regarding transmutations from one subject to another is theoretically possible, but nonetheless improbable unless the individual has studied and has understanding for the alchemical properties and ways to conduct said transmutations.

In my mind, I have doubt that someone as young as let us say, 25 could conduct a method of transfer of which not even the most advanced student of such would display then tell the world of the happenings.

If such did take place, then it may have been all over the media, since of course said individual would be prompted out of self empowerment to advertise their recognitions for such marvels performed.

Now, onto the chemical balances of alleged compounds. First off, one would need to understand all the compounds when working with any structure according to the laws of chemistry. As well as an understanding for the 12 core alchemical processes for creation to occur.

The equal mass or density theory to be included as a speculative nature, for a quid pro quo...Not that it is relevant mind you, has almost nothing to do with any tranmutative processes. The Universe gives willingly these alchemical compounds for use, nothing is to be given to aquire any distinct amount of significance. Unless you are looking into the base metal into gold conclusion.

The indivdiual would as well, need to aquire a ventruvian map, create a philosophers stone, as well as the 12 core processes needing to create that which is desired.

A conjecture if you will, to the supposed image of a transumatation circle...Which does not exist mind you, unless the creator of said circle is using which ever method of creation from the "Tree of Life".

Not saying that anything I say within this post is a be all end all, just saying that before one posts something adhering to Alchemical compositions, to at least have a basic understanding for what certain symbols as well as properties mean before continuing. As well as using common sense when implying that a "lost limb" was a subject of Alchemical funtions. We are not a naive forum, at least treat us with a bit of dignity. As well as your own.

I love the sstudies of Alchemy....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy

Very much a novice to Alchemy myself, but I appreciate the imput from our resident physicist which somewhat validates the work of Alchemy as well as Soulshroude's clarifications.

From what I've learned so far is that - yes Alchemy was/is a way of life but the purpose of actually using metals and trying to transform them to a more "precious" metal is not to make you materially wealthy but rather to uncover the secrets of the Universe.

If you can discover the properties and workings of a metal, it's interactions with other metals, and how these affect you, (given we are all star dust) then you can understand the processes of the universe and join with it accordingly.

At least that's what I think.

Soul;shroude and to everybody else what is so important about alchemy??

I mean the use of it has widely been forgotten and all so alchemy is when you have humans who are half robot no??

True Alchemist do not share their work called the master work. It can penatrate to the soul of the world, past,presant and future, allows a man to live forever with the elixiar of life, the infinate knowlege with the philosiphers stone. a believe and pratise so close to a religion. It is possible to write alchemy on the back of an emerald tablet. A good book on this subject, The Alchemist by palo cohelo i think thats how you spell it, ive read it a number of times, and still learning things from it.

Alchemy is not something you learn and can master in a day or so, many are still learning, it takes a life time, its all about the soul, the belief in yourself and soul.

Wolfkiller, are you asking if Alchemy creates "cyborgs"?

Alchemy is the science, The only science! transmophing lead into gold and being able make and elixiar of eternal life.
wikipedia says -

In the history of science, alchemy (from the Arabic الكيمياء al-kīmiyā' [1]) refers to both an early form of the investigation of nature and an early philosophical and spiritual discipline, both combining elements of chemistry, metallurgy, physics, medicine, astrology, semiotics, mysticism, spiritualism, and art all as parts of one greater force. Alchemy has been practiced in Mesopotamia, Ancient Egypt, Persia, India, Japan, Korea and China, in Classical Greece and Rome, in the Muslim civilization, and then in Europe up to the 19th century—in a complex network of schools and philosophical systems spanning at least 2500 years

I wouldn't say it's the only science, but it's definitely a precursor to the natural sciences - Biology, Astronomy, Bio-Chemistry, etc.

Yeah thats what i mean. Back then when it began it was one of the sciences, now a day you dont hear much of it.

There might be a reason for that. Make that two...

First, it didn't work ...
Second, it's obsolete now ...

SarraS - that's not necessarily true.

It did work - just not the way the average person seems to think of it. It is a philosophical practice and comparative study of the natural sciences. There are some practical applications of it. Its primary purpose is not simply trying to change only metal from one type to another.

Secondly, it is not obsolete. Granted, it's not as prominent, but its uses are just as needed today as they were during its hay day.

I would think that the reason it remains labeled occult is because of its spiritual aspect. It just doesn't jive with the need for concrete evidence in modern science.

and what place does alchemy hold today?

all i know is that alchemy is an ancient form of investigating nature and a spiritual discipline. i never really got a chance to look into it in any depth

i appologize for the mistake in the human make up of sulfer and sullfer sullfer is wrong and does not belong and the philosaphers stone and the 15 trait elements we dont know of are said to be our very soul

Yes it did work, its just that very few people practise it. it takes a life time to master, the symbols are so confusing that only the hard studies, can crack it, but the basic principles of alchemy, is within everyone of us. Believe in yourself and your work and you will find it.

HoodedDemon -

In response to your question.

Alchemy's purpose these days is philosophical in nature and medicinal in practice. There are certain mineral "essences" that have modern medicinal use.

Oceann has some wonderful research on the effects of Sound on Gold, as well as gold's own resonance. Sound is intricately woven into our very existence and survival. The relationship between the two, I think, is more than coincidental.

I tried creating a new thread for this but it was promptly closed due to similar threads being open. I figured this is just as good as any thread to post it in, and not to stray from the topic but this is what I'm currently looking into -

The name Cancer denotes immortality. The disease cancer is so named because of the habit of the cells' not dying. Instead, cancerous cells reproduce and virtually take over the healthy cells, effectively strangling the organs of the body.

A healthy cell divides approximately 50 times before undergoing "apoptosis" - the cell dies and its remains are absorbed by the surrounding healthy cells. Cancerous cells do not go through this apoptosis. So we know that immortality DOES exist.

I'm currently reading the book Alchemy: the Secret of Immortality by Art Kunkin, an Alchemist of over 40 years, who suggests that there truly is a Stone to be made which can harness this potential and, if not provide immortality, at least allow us to live extended vibrant healthy lives (beyond the average 75 years). He suggests that certain types of radioactive matter are the key ingredients to the Stone. As I have not yet finished reading the book, I can't elaborate.

The question: If his research can be soundly supported, and human lives can be extended by such means, where would we draw the line between alchemy and modern chemistry?

Better yet, will the study of Alchemy then leap from the shroud of Occult into a main stream science?


Perhaps this can bring this thread back to life.

i would personaly love to see extending of our lives thru this science and use of the stone i dont think there should be a line to be drawn it should be main stream for sure

saint germain on Alchemy formulas for self-transformation is a good book and gives you guys another book to check out

I had a Alchemist on World of Warvraft