.
VR
Faith and Respect
General Discussion
•  General Discussion Home  •   Forums Home  •



Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
21:01:44 Aug 19 2011
Read 1,138 times

Why is it that irrespective of which faith I might mention, Christianity, Satanism, Hinduism, etc… all are intolerant and disrespectful, to some degree or another, about the other. Why?




•  REPLY  •


IveXtastedxthexrainbow
IveXtastedxthexrainbow
Premiere Sire (122)
Posts: 2,056
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of The House of La Bella Oscuridad
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
21:30:10 Aug 19 2011
Read 1,131 times

I would think because all of them want you to follow that religion. Christianity trys to eliminate them all by saying that they are sinful in regards to having different gods other than God and also having idols. The others are just doing the same thing...trying to get you to believe that groups religion.

**This post is 100% POV



•  REPLY  •


ZomIV
ZomIV

No Longer Registered
21:37:17 Aug 19 2011
Read 1,126 times

I don't think it's the religions that disrespect eachother as much as it is the people following said religions that disrespect eachother.

Take the people out of the equation and there is no problem at all.



•  REPLY  •


Sulks
Sulks
Great Sire (110)
Posts: 2,543
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Chateau Orleans (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Chateau Orleans (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
22:24:05 Aug 19 2011
Read 1,117 times

I think BRZombie has a point. It's human nature to be intolerant of, to fear, or to deny what we don't fully understand, or what is slightly outside of our perception of what is 'right'.



•  REPLY  •


PoeticHeart
PoeticHeart
Anarchist (88)
Posts: 1,511
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Children of the Night (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Children of the Night (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 15 years.
23:00:16 Aug 19 2011
Read 1,111 times

I believe the reason these religions and the tenants thereof, have such a hatred toward other beliefs, is because they see themselves as "the only way." Think of it it terms of a light at the end of the tunnel (cliche I know, just bare with me) and they see themselves as that "tunnel" or path to salvation, paradise, etc.



•  REPLY  •


SireHecate
SireHecate

No Longer Registered
23:43:00 Aug 19 2011
Read 1,108 times

Being a former Christian minister, I have never notices a Hindu or a Muslim trying to take over the American scene as Christianity. The religious right in this country only involves christians-right wing ones



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
23:52:55 Aug 19 2011
Read 1,106 times

PoeticHeart got to the heart [[*sic]] of the matter there with that response I feel.

What irritates, is that each talk of tolerant and peace...

heck... I think of the program here.. and, the persecution of the Catholics by the prodestants then vice-versa, which tore Bloody Britain apart, time after...

it... makes such little sense.



•  REPLY  •


PoeticHeart
PoeticHeart
Anarchist (88)
Posts: 1,511
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Children of the Night (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Children of the Night (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 15 years.
00:24:02 Aug 20 2011
Read 1,101 times

Thats my problem personally with organized religion. Its generally so hateful and intolerant.



•  REPLY  •


RighteousFatality
RighteousFatality
Grave Robber (22)
Posts: 8
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Legion (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 15 years.
03:22:11 Aug 20 2011
Read 1,093 times

I agree with BRZombie on this matter..

The principles and virtues of most religions teach acceeptance and understanding, but it is human nature to be tribal and territorial.. Given this, the leaders of various sects and religious organizations go further to create propoganda, slander, rumours, etc., in order to carry out their secular, mundane objectives on either a social or political level.. This point is fulfilled greatly when one looks at the Vatican throughtout history and even today.. I was only a few years ago that the Pope told the AIDS ravished country of Africa that yes, AIDS is bad, but condoms are even worse..

To continue this point, not only am I an atheist but a anti-theist.. The divine ideaology of religion is the only method to make good, moral people do wicked, unmoral things.. A newborn baby is beautiful! But not quite beautiful enough, lets saw at it's genitalia a bit because God's handy work is mediocre.. The journalist/author Christopher Hitchens was great at proving this point! I would suggest ordering his book, "God Is Not Great".. Thanks!

-- Nick --



•  REPLY  •


Severus
Severus
Sire (107)
Posts: 517
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
08:46:51 Aug 20 2011
Read 1,086 times

Religion is the number one cause of intolerance. lol

They give you a set of laws and beliefs and then say if you don't follow them your going to a place filled with pain and suffering... or worse. Fear forces you to except this doctrine and then says go practice what we command you to preach. Religion sets man against man from the start... throw in a secondary religion and now you have holly wars to fight.

Not to bust anyone's bubble but has anyone seen God recently... any God.
You pretty much have to go back to a time prior to the classical age to find any reference of man interacting with any god directly. That's at least 2,000 years of man's influence on all religion unchecked.
So the idea that you could remove the human element from religion is preposterous... Religion was created for us, to be used and practiced by us. Hell we even have Dogma.



•  REPLY  •


Soulshroude
Soulshroude

No Longer Registered
12:14:13 Aug 20 2011
Read 1,082 times

Because it is their life long conquest to prove to the others beyond the shadow of any doubt, that theirs is the correct and true religion.

That would be it, in a nutshell.



•  REPLY  •


Silverhawk
Silverhawk
Ophidian (66)
Posts: 307
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Legion (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
12:56:22 Aug 20 2011
Read 1,080 times

Who needs an ultimate place of Hell for pain and suffering? Don't we have enough here in the "real" world? o.O Ditto agreement with Severus and Soulshroud...I still find it immediately ridiculous how religions are even dissented into so many factions interpreting the same scriptures a thousand different ways to fit the ideals of any group or individual leaders.

How can any one religion respect the beliefs of others when those involved in their teachings are often disrespectful to their own flock to begin with. Tolerance and Respect starts at home..in the heart of our families...it is not found in the Church, in the Minister, the Pastor, the Holy Man, whatever...these things cannot be realized without the capacity to Love and unfortunately, everyone's interpretation of Love is as multifaceted as the subverted cultures that evolve from Religion.



•  REPLY  •


Blacklodge
Blacklodge

No Longer Registered
13:29:41 Aug 20 2011
Read 1,078 times

In the end it comes down to power, organized religions are institutes, that wish to control & benefit from it. The more people you can convince that your line is correct, the greater your power will be. And as such you wish to get rid, of those that have an other idea or view.

The faith in itself can be ok, but once people get involved, it goes down the drain.



•  REPLY  •


ZomIV
ZomIV

No Longer Registered
14:55:05 Aug 20 2011
Read 1,073 times

Remove human beings from the planet, everything works in harmony.

The same goes for any religion. Doctrine is just something to be read. It is when doctrine is put into the hands of human beings, that things go bad.

Law, by itself, is a beautiful thing. It is put in place to protect one from another.

Now, you find me a honest lawyer.



•  REPLY  •


ZomIV
ZomIV

No Longer Registered
15:47:24 Aug 20 2011
Read 1,068 times

Let me add...

If what you perceive to be god, is god, then human beings in the equation or not, that god is still god. Thus, the doctrine still exists.

If what you perceive to be god, is only god because there are human beings, then that god is no god at all and it doesn't really matter.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
00:48:05 Aug 21 2011
Read 1,048 times

that's all about God tho.

But people put their Faith in other things, over religion:
and, sometimes those factors predominate...

to others cost.



•  REPLY  •


ZomIV
ZomIV

No Longer Registered
00:53:14 Aug 21 2011
Read 1,045 times

Which is why, I firmly believe that people should keep their faith to themselves.



•  REPLY  •


8thHunterScar
8thHunterScar

No Longer Registered
01:48:10 Aug 21 2011
Read 1,039 times

Hey I know something about this topic haha lucky me many people have said many things about the followers however its a matter of doctrine as well and there are a few religions that see themselves as exclusive I can name 3 off the top of my head. Therefore it is only natural for the followers of religions that clearly teach that they are the "only right religion" to be intolerant of other religions, after all they would be considered a threat to the "correct one."



•  REPLY  •


Severus
Severus
Sire (107)
Posts: 517
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
08:25:48 Aug 21 2011
Read 1,027 times

Religion is made for man, Gods laws and teaching handed down to be followed and up held. So the idea of removing the human element and some how everything with religion would be fine is simply a contradiction to that singular idea.

If you remove man... then you really don't need a religion.



•  REPLY  •


Severus
Severus
Sire (107)
Posts: 517
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
08:36:09 Aug 21 2011
Read 1,026 times

I think George Carlin said it best!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo



•  REPLY  •


Blacklodge
Blacklodge

No Longer Registered
11:17:07 Aug 21 2011
Read 1,022 times

Many have critized the use of organized religion, as a mean to keep the people under control.

For example do we find references in the works of the marquis De Sade, Karl Marx, Charles Kingsley & Czesław Miłosz, ao

To free ourselves from eternal damnation by established religions, we have to free ourselves of these institutes.



•  REPLY  •


ZomIV
ZomIV

No Longer Registered
13:43:56 Aug 21 2011
Read 1,015 times

So, what's being said here is that religion is the problem, not the people who follow said religion.

That's great logic.

If there was a religion, that no one ever followed, what harm is that religion causing?

Is the problem not man?

Simply removing religion, would not solve a thing.


Take away guns
Kill with knives
Take away knives
Kill with shovels etc. etc. etc.



•  REPLY  •


8thHunterScar
8thHunterScar

No Longer Registered
14:22:39 Aug 21 2011
Read 1,011 times

I am happy you used that analogy a gun by itself cant harm anyone, just like a religion with no followers however a gun doesn't try and tell you how to live either doctrine does. Its a combination of the two that causes the problems. Also saying take away man and you take away religion's problems well if we did that what is the purpose of religion? They would become obsolete without man to follow them.



•  REPLY  •


ZomIV
ZomIV

No Longer Registered
14:30:43 Aug 21 2011
Read 1,009 times

Oh I see. So, it's religions fault. Man isn't responsible for his own actions. I got it now.

Do you always do as you're told?

Do you believe everything you hear?

If the doctrine you follow tells you to go kill your neighbor, will you?

Irregardless of the religion, it is man's responsibility to conduct himself in a manner that causes no harm to others.



•  REPLY  •


Blacklodge
Blacklodge

No Longer Registered
14:57:07 Aug 21 2011
Read 1,002 times

We see in mainstream and organised religion, that the so called leaders work in on the weaker ones, in a word brainwash them, take for example the last sermon of Ratzinger in Madrid, which in my eyes is one big advertising campaign for the roman catholic church and the papacy.

They don't want people who question any saying from the vatican, you have to except every verb they utter, without thinking and if we look at the history of the rcc, we see how many have died by its hands and those of its faithfull.

And it isn't better in any other mainstream church or religion, see Islam, Judaism, Orthodox christianity, the same points arise in different situations.

What a big difference, with people who believe, hold on to a faith, live by what they believe, but need no churches or organisations to tell them what to do.

The basic words or books usually are good, its what men have made from it. As such you are correct, that we should take a postion towards others, not to harm then, unless they wish to harm us. As stated by Dr. LaVey and written in the Satanic Bible.

Let people have their faith, but take away the power of organised religions, where only those leading benefit of.



•  REPLY  •


ZomIV
ZomIV

No Longer Registered
15:07:00 Aug 21 2011
Read 1,000 times

Ok, now your not saying that the religion is the problem. It is the power given to said religions that is the problem.

And where does this "power" come from?

People.



•  REPLY  •


Blacklodge
Blacklodge

No Longer Registered
15:24:28 Aug 21 2011
Read 994 times

I have been saying the same from the start. Faith or as you say religion isn't the problem, it's the organised structure that dominates.

And what is the organised structure; al to much strong willed people with bad or lesser intentions, which pray on everyone who is weaker and can be used in their ways.

And as example I refer again to the history of the rcc, where it is shown plainly haw a few people dominated more then 1500 years of civilisation.

So who is to blaim here, the 0.01% who lead the structure or the 99,99%, who didn't know better or afraid what would happen to them.

In the end it's clear that both groups are men, but not the words of faith are to be blamed for the missuse of the churches or religious groups.

And that is what I have been saying from the first message, that I wrote as respons on this thread, but which maybe wasn't clear as we used different names for the same item, I use faith, you religion.

We see how simple the use of another word can lead to misunderstandings, then we can comprehend easy how religious leaders use their influence.

And for a total other example. In the 1930's 30% of Germany supported Adolf Hitler, but in the end, he knew how to consolidate his power and become ruler over the 70% that didn't support him. A similar thing is happening In Poland, where the vatican still has a huge influence, and holds back laws on gay rights, euthanasia, a.m.m.

Who is to blame there, the leaders, that missuse their position, or the people because they don't resist?



•  REPLY  •


PoeticHeart
PoeticHeart
Anarchist (88)
Posts: 1,511
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Children of the Night (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Children of the Night (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 15 years.
15:29:05 Aug 21 2011
Read 992 times

I think religion only feeds the problems of mankind, not solve them.

Both are a problem in their own right.

But without religion would the world be a utopia? In my estimation, no it wouldn't be. People would still find something to fight over.

Is religion a problem without mankind? If said religion has the same exact teachings then in a sense, it still poses a threat. Assume for a moment that animals (which mankind is by the way) can discern the teachings of a religion. Would they not wage the same wars?



•  REPLY  •


ZomIV
ZomIV

No Longer Registered
15:33:56 Aug 21 2011
Read 991 times

It wasn't the difference in words. I thought someone else typed that last message. My apologies.

When I say people, I am including the leaders of these religions too as, they too are people.

My point is, that it is people as a whole that are the problem, not religion.

It is up to you and you alone as to what you will and won't do. Even in countries where the religion is forced.

I would rather die than cause harm just because some idiot told me his god or doctrine told him to tell me to do so.



•  REPLY  •


PoeticHeart
PoeticHeart
Anarchist (88)
Posts: 1,511
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Children of the Night (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Children of the Night (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 15 years.
15:38:57 Aug 21 2011
Read 988 times

Yes people of blind faith are a major problem sometimes.

If you believed your God offered you a guaranteed spot in paradise only if you killed someone, would you not do it? (assuming you were of blind faith.)



•  REPLY  •


ZomIV
ZomIV

No Longer Registered
15:43:05 Aug 21 2011
Read 985 times

I couldn't assume I was of blind faith, as I am not.

And no, I wouldn't kill someone. Unless it was in defense. Even then, there are ways around killing.



•  REPLY  •


PoeticHeart
PoeticHeart
Anarchist (88)
Posts: 1,511
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Children of the Night (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Children of the Night (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 15 years.
15:48:35 Aug 21 2011
Read 979 times

Well thanks for answering, but I wasn't really aiming it at anyone in particular. Just kinda threw it out there. (Just FYI)



•  REPLY  •


Blacklodge
Blacklodge

No Longer Registered
15:49:08 Aug 21 2011
Read 977 times

Most of us here have freed ourselves from the dictates of others, but pity enough a majority of the world population hasn't got so far yet, and from childhood on they are said what to believe, which to often leads to blind faith.

Being free from blind faith, we have a choice and indeed you are very right, let us use it with care and wisdom, we can all get better from it.



•  REPLY  •


ZomIV
ZomIV

No Longer Registered
15:54:46 Aug 21 2011
Read 972 times

Sorry, didn't know it mattered who (if anyone) answered the question.


Even with people of blind faith, religion is still not the problem.

They choose not to think for themselves.



•  REPLY  •


PoeticHeart
PoeticHeart
Anarchist (88)
Posts: 1,511
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Children of the Night (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Children of the Night (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 15 years.
15:55:39 Aug 21 2011
Read 970 times

Going back to the train of though of the original question, let me ask, do you think that without blind faith in every religion, then would they still be hostile towards each other? (Open question to all)



•  REPLY  •


ZomIV
ZomIV

No Longer Registered
16:03:40 Aug 21 2011
Read 968 times

Well, you do have people who aren't of blind faith yet continue to be hostile just for the sake of being hostile.



•  REPLY  •


ZomIV
ZomIV

No Longer Registered
16:10:25 Aug 21 2011
Read 962 times

Most times, I think it is people with an agenda and it typically has nothing to do with the religion they are using.



•  REPLY  •


SireHecate
SireHecate

No Longer Registered
19:10:11 Aug 21 2011
Read 948 times

People do use their religion as a weapon though. When you look at some of the people running for president, it's very evident. They want the US to be a homegenic and mono faith culture



•  REPLY  •


markus666
markus666
Great Sire (118)
Posts: 1,725
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Coven of Elizabeth Batory is a member of an Alliance

Member of Coven of Elizabeth Batory
Vampire Rave member for 19 years.
19:14:36 Aug 21 2011
Read 947 times

Ahhh...The Humans and their believe. Humans love to control the mind of others humans and the best way to do it is to created an euphoria of fear of the unknown. Let me give you an example. Today I came back from the mountain (3 days trip) and under my door was the following literature: "Will Humans ruin Earth?? You are warmly invited to come and listen to the answer" from the watch tower.

So, How do I know that these people got the answers? Why are they so specials, if IAW their own bible all humans are created equal? well, faith and respect will never go side by side. Who ever got the most followers, will have the most money and remember, money is power. Money talk, money act and for sure, money bough Love, respect and happiness.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
00:16:29 Aug 22 2011
Read 932 times

money... ? I was talking Faith.

Personally, I'll agree with The Nazerene on one thing, money has no place ... in a discussion on Faith.



•  REPLY  •


8thHunterScar
8thHunterScar

No Longer Registered
03:31:10 Aug 22 2011
Read 917 times

Also to answer some of your questions, some people do kill their neighbor if their doctrine tells them to believe it or not.

If I believed everything I heard then I would be an Atheist a christian a Buddhist an evolutionist and much much more most contradict each other. Personally I consider myself simply fucked in the head.

I used to do as I was told, then I grew up although still do from time to time when I am completing a task that I am fairly new to accomplishing and am working with more experienced people.

I thought we were talking about why some religious people are intolerant not a pacifists agenda.



•  REPLY  •


Severus
Severus
Sire (107)
Posts: 517
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
03:52:30 Aug 22 2011
Read 916 times

I understand what Zombie is trying to say, Guns don't kill people - people kill people... And I agree with that statement.
The gun is a tool, but Religion is not a tool to be used at the owners discretion. You don't get to pick and choose what teachings to follow when you convert you are taught them all.
The reason I hold this theory is because we are not talking about an individual with a single act. Religion is a group, a collective effort led by an ideology not a man or even a group of men. Yes there is a chain of human command but their actions are dictated and set forth by the ideology. The doctrine is, scripture and scripture is the word of god. It is clear that man is to consult scripture to make his choices on what to do and not to do... they even use the term "the ten commandments." lol

The base scriptures of the worlds major religions are clean and fair on the surface but over all they're teachings preach (including the Ten Commandments) that there is one God and you shall worship him and him alone.

This ideology is at the heart of most religions and it also pits neighbor against neighbor from the start. You are telling man that anyone who doesn't believe in the one true God is evil... this forces you to believe in what I believe or you're the enemy of my God.

So if religion is the word of god, and this is what his words teach... then how are the teaching not the cause??



•  REPLY  •


Severus
Severus
Sire (107)
Posts: 517
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
04:19:34 Aug 22 2011
Read 910 times

Your welcome, Severus worship services are held every Friday and Saturday night from 10:00pm till 4:00am.
The only commandment is that you bring your own beer... Sorry but unlike some Religions I still have to pay my far share of the taxes. lol



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
16:54:24 Aug 22 2011
Read 890 times

again... talking Faith... not specifically religion. the two don't necessarily go hand in hand... in fact, it would seem that they don't often go hand in hand, as many religion were formalized by man, for man and, they have man misuing those same rules, because of Greed... as a generalization, that is.



•  REPLY  •


PoeticHeart
PoeticHeart
Anarchist (88)
Posts: 1,511
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Children of the Night (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Children of the Night (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 15 years.
23:38:18 Aug 22 2011
Read 876 times

Well when discussing faith in this context one has to involve religion. Faith is defined as: Complete trust or confidence in someone or something; or a more practical definition- Trust or belief. Conviction. From the Latin fides, "trust." Faith in its broadest sense means "religion," "dharma." More specifically, it is the essential element of religion -- the belief in phenomena beyond the pale of the five senses, distinguishing it sharply from rationalism. ...

So based on the first definition I chose, faith doesn't have to involve a deity, but possibly a person.

Going off the second definition, it in of itself, is religion.



•  REPLY  •


SireHecate
SireHecate

No Longer Registered
01:40:04 Aug 23 2011
Read 871 times

Faith can be belief in almost anything, really when you think about it, even in tangible things.



•  REPLY  •


anji13
anji13

No Longer Registered
01:55:36 Aug 23 2011
Read 870 times

I don't think its in our nature to exclude others. Humans have a natural curiosity, look at any child and you can see that. We have instincts to include others and to be social.

It is whatever experiences we endure that forces us to segregate. This is my issue with CERTAIN organized religions, they force people to make a line between fellow human beings.

I know many Jehovah's Witnesses, Pagans, Wiccans, Buddhists.... My three best friends are of different religions. I think alot of that is we have known one another for so long that we can overlook the religious aspects and just see the person.

Also some people rely too heavily on their religious beliefs, and abandon free thought or independent thinking. They have no exposure to anything else.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
13:07:17 Aug 23 2011
Read 862 times

now this is more what I was curious of, the dichotomy between faith and religion: you see PoeticHeart, I'm a kind of tradionalist when it comes to English... and although 'the' definition mentions religion, it is not dependant on it, for meaning.

I have belief, faith if you will... but, there's no god involved and, I would never say one religion is 'better' than another... ergo, I find the discord amongs them, in the name of faith, quite irksome.



•  REPLY  •


PoeticHeart
PoeticHeart
Anarchist (88)
Posts: 1,511
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Children of the Night (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Children of the Night (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 15 years.
13:50:22 Aug 23 2011
Read 859 times

Of course, I recognize that. I was just pointing that out.

And I guess since you pointed out your beliefs, I'll quit being vague. I am now considering myself an athiest, so I guess you can see where I'm coming from.



•  REPLY  •


LordFangor
LordFangor
Royal Sire (216)
Posts: 2,059
Honor: 66
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 20 years.
23:05:37 Aug 23 2011
Read 851 times

Historically Christianity and Islam have seen themselves as the way and the only way.

Buddhism is more accepting and does not worry about coverting anyone.

Hinduism is generally accepting of other religions BUT they have been known to get physically aggressive with Islam. This might be because of the centuries old conflict between Hinduism and Islam which resulted in the slaughter of many Hindus.



•  REPLY  •


8thHunterScar
8thHunterScar

No Longer Registered
03:59:09 Aug 24 2011
Read 841 times

I have to point out one thing. Buddhists aren't always passive In Thailand about 4 years ago a group of Buddhists in a town outside of Chiang Mai burned a christian church down because they believed a differently than the Buddhists in the town.

However I had the opportunity to speak with a Buddhist Monk in Thailand about a week before the incident and he thought everyone in the world religion wise was accepting of all beliefs so there is certainly an interesting dynamic.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
15:28:14 Aug 24 2011
Read 832 times

Hunter... that fascinated. as did the 'author' before you.
It does seem like whatever the religion, 'they' think they're "the only one" ... and, that's dangerous.

When a section of society places Faith in that one Religion, to the exclusion of all else... the'r closed minds will not allow a whole picture to be seen, just that which is 'allowed' by the one-true-religon.

whatever that is...



•  REPLY  •


LacyLashes
LacyLashes
Transgressor (54)
Posts: 368
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Legion (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 15 years.
18:52:45 Aug 24 2011
Read 824 times

I can theorize that some do it out of fear. Fear that they may be wrong. The psychological aspect crops up and doubt is begot. It is confusing to someone who has ascribed to certain beliefs that A. They could like, trust and befriend someone with opposing beliefs without doing anything in opposition to their beliefs (and that) B. They could find tangible reason in some of the aspects of that person(s), people(s) beliefs that make logical sense to them. The fear arises that doubt has come into them about their own beliefs, and that is generally where the intolerance begins. Many of the religious structures (or institutions) teach that to doubt is to sow some sort of seed of "sin" or some other type of negative response. There are many many other reasons why intolerance within religions exist. Some of them are power-driven, and even others are bred out of sheer ignorance. Most religions actually share the same basic concepts, but out of the need to differ for the sake of meeting those agendas, have created whole doctrines for themselves in order to facilitate their superiority. Most interesting topic, with many layers to explore.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
00:15:19 Aug 25 2011
Read 813 times

fear of the unknown [[or known]] ... whilst logical, brings out the illogical and, strange behaviours.



•  REPLY  •


dabbler
dabbler
Venerable Sire (130)
Posts: 11,418
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
18:02:31 Aug 25 2011
Read 795 times

The common element of intolerance among religions, faiths, and such are the fundamentalist, zealots, and radicals.



•  REPLY  •


8thHunterScar
8thHunterScar

No Longer Registered
19:20:53 Aug 25 2011
Read 792 times

Here is a crazy statement. Why are fundamentalists called fundamentalists? Cause they follow the fundamentals. Shocker? Possibly.



•  REPLY  •


AsphaltTears
AsphaltTears
Elemental (77)
Posts: 422
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Legion (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
00:05:17 Aug 26 2011
Read 782 times

Fundamentalists are not an old sect. They are modern like many of the newer groups in any religious persuasion. ("The term "fundamentalism" was originally coined by its supporters to describe a specific package of theological beliefs that developed into a movement within the Protestant community of the United States in the early part of the 20th century, and that had its roots in the Fundamentalist–Modernist Controversy of that time. The term usually has a religious connotation indicating unwavering attachment to a set of irreducible beliefs.") The groups are taught to be intolerant by what their writings state. Most of them do not apply to this time period. They apply to a more tribal view of things in the past. I am sure you know what I am speaking of.

The other thing is the use of the word "god." If you write God or for some an abbreviated form, everyone thinks of Jehovah (Yahweh, or the letters, whatever) for want of a better word to use. It is taken for granted and in that statement lies some of the reasons...elitism. It is terribly egotistical to think a descriptive word should be applied to mean one particular group's idea of creative deity before all other belief systems on this planet. Don't use that word in that way because it isn't a name. I think I would prefer something a little more abstract that doesn't set one or the other apart. Most all religious groups are intolerant but mostly it has to do with interpretation. It is too bad we can't just accept to treat each other as we would want to be treated. In this way, there wouldn't be any intolerance because it would create respect and no issues with beliefs of others because that would or should become a private issue.

I believe that it also deals with self. None of these things can be proven so to make one feel they believe something beyond fantasy it is numbers that create the idea of normalcy when some things are quite frankly beyond belief. It raises the bar and with numbers it seems to be right, so your proselytizers appear and bash others to make themselves seem superior in their beliefs. It has gone on for centuries, people killed for their beliefs or martyred themselves. Nowadays it has become political and they are still killing for their beliefs or martyring themselves. People name call or knock on your door to annoy you. Even many religious groups kick you out if you don't follow things to the letter or question them. It can be your death or a time out for a year or two. Is that true charity, nope...I think I have never seen that animal. It also depends on the personality of the person as well. A critical person will be just that and an open-minded person will be just that and here for example, we have them all. Many, many, many opinions...that's all they are.



•  REPLY  •


Severus
Severus
Sire (107)
Posts: 517
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
02:14:18 Aug 26 2011
Read 775 times

Point blank... you can provide a mountain of evidence either for or against any given idea, including religion.

In the end people will believe in what they wish to.


You can't reason someone out of a belief they did not use reason to get themselves into.


- Albert Einstien



•  REPLY  •


HauntedPassions
HauntedPassions
Blood Drinker (68)
Posts: 1,488
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Wolves of Odin (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 14 years.
06:41:41 Aug 26 2011
Read 770 times

its the way people believe in their religion that causes the problem not religion nor people. one religion, one belief, may be followed by its disciples or followers in different ways. a doctrine interpreted and explained in one single way by a religion may register differently in the ears and minds of its followers.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
13:20:11 Aug 26 2011
Read 766 times

AsphaltTears remarks were astute and thoroughly researched, as evcer I might suggest.

But, severus.. surely that was the point of this thread, people do believe in wghat they want, even when it's intiolerance..

Hunter... pithy and amusing, as ever! Temendous.



•  REPLY  •


PoeticHeart
PoeticHeart
Anarchist (88)
Posts: 1,511
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Children of the Night (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Children of the Night (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 15 years.
19:03:44 Aug 26 2011
Read 759 times

I think, looking back at the original question that was posed, this falls under the type of question that asks "what do you believe?"

Merely opinionated in nature.

So I think that's why we cant reach one clear, concise answer.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
00:11:50 Aug 27 2011
Read 750 times

'intolerant and disrespectful, to some degree or another, about the other...' aye, that sounds like man, but... these religions all talk a good talk.. all of them.

they just.. don't practice what they... preach.



•  REPLY  •


NellMorgan
NellMorgan

No Longer Registered
13:05:37 Aug 27 2011
Read 740 times

I may not agree with aspects of some Religons, as some who follow certin ones can preach hate and focus upon it's more negative aspects, rather than the posive aspects and the message as a whole. I don't believe any relion should have a place within politics. We should respect peoples choices unless they impose hate and their own opion onto us. Each to their own. If it does not harm, I will attempt to not judge. JUst my opinion.



•  REPLY  •


dabbler
dabbler
Venerable Sire (130)
Posts: 11,418
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
17:14:29 Aug 27 2011
Read 733 times

source Holysmoke,org

Intolerance of religion must not be tolerated.

"There shall be no slavery of the mind." --- Victor Hugo
Church / meeting house
As the number of new religious movements continue to increase in membership, the necessity to defend the right of people to worship as they please, as long as they do not harm others, is also increasing. Religious bigotry stems mostly from ignorance, fear, and spiritual competition. None of these need be reasons for engaging in religious intolerance and bigotry. I'll address why this is so here. But first, I would like to write about "tolerance" itself. The word is defined here as follows:

TOL·ER·ANCE (n.)

1. The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others.

2.a. Leeway for variation from a standard. b. The permissible deviation from a specified value of a structural dimension, often expressed as a percent.

As Robert Green Ingersoll pointed out, to "tolerate" someone is to make an "assumption of authority" and it is therefore invalid to say to another "I tolerate you" or "I tolerate your religion / beliefs." One does not have the authority to "tolerate" someone else's religious beliefs: that is the default condition, and requires no act or largesse on anyone's part. Therefore when I write about religious tolerance, I am speaking about the fact that one has no right to perform any wrongful act against a person or group based only upon that person's or group's religion, religious beliefs, or lack of religious beliefs. The default is if they cause no harm, leave them alone.

Note that harmful actions caused in the name of a church, religion, or religious belief are certainly open to criticism: it is not being intolerant or bigoted to castigate criminal, unethical, and immoral behavior. Indeed, it is a human being's duty to oppose criminal acts regardless of who commits them. Crimes committed in the name of religion are still crimes, and must therefore be denounced.

Molko v. Holy Spirit (46 Cal. 3d 1092; 762 P.2d 46; 1988 Cal. LEXIS 236; 252 Cal. Rptr. 122) to wit: "However, while religious belief is absolutely protected, religiously motivated conduct is not." (Sherbert v. Verner (1963) 374 U.S. 398, 402-403 [10 L.Ed.2d 965, 969-970, 83 S.Ct. 1790]; People v. Woody (1964) 61 Cal.2d 716, 718 [40 Cal.Rptr. 69, 394 P.2d 813].) "Such conduct remains subject to regulation for the protection of society." (Cantwell v. Connecticut, supra, 310 U.S. at p. 304 [84 L.Ed. at p. 1218].)

Crusaders torturing Jews
Crusaders torturing Jews.
IGNORANCE. Discriminating against someone for their harmless religious beliefs (or lack of religious beliefs) out of ignorance is probably the second greatest "reason" religious discrimination and bigotry occurs. People may believe they "know" something about a church, religion, or religious belief that they do not in fact know; what they believe they know may be inaccurate. It is often the case that the only sure way to know what a religion actually teaches is to watch how members actually behave: if they do no harm, and do not cost non-members their time, money, and other resources, then ignorance is not a valid excuse for intolerance and bigotry. Education is the cure for ignorance. That education must come from the church or religious individuals themselves, as well as from the community that church resides in. (However, it is very often the case that the best information about a church or religion comes from people who have once been members but are no longer members.) If the community is not being harmed by a church, one must TOLERATE THAT CHURCH. One has no moral or ethical reason to do otherwise.

FEAR. People trust what they know, and distrust that which they are not familiar with. If one encounters an unfamiliar church or religion, it is only fair, ethical, and moral to withhold judgment for or against that church or religion until it has demonstrated itself worthy of fear--- which the vast majority never do. When the "newness" of the church or religion wears off, the fear will diminish.

SPIRITUAL COMPETITION. The worse offenders against religious tolerance are members and leaders of competing religions. This is a shame, as those who are religious bigots have failed to understand the fact that to be accepted themselves, they must accept others. There are many reasons why people belong to the religions they do: the chief one being geography and familial tradition. If they are happy with their religion, and if they harm no one, there is no reason to object to their choice of spirituality.

If someone's religion "does not break your bones or pick your pocket," you are ethically and morally obligated to LEAVE THEM ALONE and thus tolerate them. It costs you nothing to do so, and it is wrong to do otherwise.


David M. Rice



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
17:55:14 Aug 27 2011
Read 729 times

'Intolerance of religion must not be tolerated,' Uh-huh?

I'll go for that.

But, what about intolerance through religion Dabs?!! as the original question espoused...



•  REPLY  •


SireHecate
SireHecate

No Longer Registered
19:40:04 Aug 27 2011
Read 725 times

People must be in control of their faith, and never vice-versa. People need to scrutinise their religious leaders, and this is where the problems lie. When I was an evangelical I noticed many times, that the majority of christian leaders, especially men where arrogant in their opinions, often dictatorial and territorial. When you offered a differing opinion it was as if you were a threat.

When I look at televangelists and such and see the people their hanging on to every word these "ministers' say and never questioning, it as if there's an active brain washing occuring but with consent,



•  REPLY  •


SireHecate
SireHecate

No Longer Registered
19:15:37 Aug 28 2011
Read 718 times

I forgot to add this as well. People need to stop the attempts at conversion by coercion as well. Especially in certain charities where in order to get food you're subjected to a religious message. That's wrong.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
00:06:07 Aug 29 2011
Read 709 times

...in our soup kitchen, we work from a church, yet nowaaay would we expect someone to pray for it, like the penguins down the road...


Oopsie.. am I being disrespectful?

Uhuh.


'Coz I agree... one should not have to pray, in order that 'the volunteer' provides your meal. I concur.



•  REPLY  •


VampirateRaven
VampirateRaven
Wraith (46)
Posts: 14
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Wolves of Odin (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 19 years.
05:38:14 Aug 29 2011
Read 705 times

It's human nature, we can't be satisfied with one thing or the other, and need to feel contempt against another, because it gives belief of purpose..



•  REPLY  •


SireHecate
SireHecate

No Longer Registered
07:01:19 Aug 29 2011
Read 703 times

Some religions such as evangelical Christianity teaches their members to preach and convert. The problem is they never leave you alone and that what's disturbs me. Especially the door knockers



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
23:54:15 Aug 29 2011
Read 694 times

christians do it, muslims and jews, believe that theirs is 'the one' faith, the one-true way.

heck, that's a key phrase they all use...

how damn arrogant... and, intolerant... of them.



•  REPLY  •



• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by Vampirewitch39 on Oct 01 2011  •

•  General Discussion Home  •   Forums Home  •

COMPANY
REQUEST HELP
CONTACT US
SITEMAP
REPORT A BUG
UPDATES
LEGAL
TERMS OF SERVICE
PRIVACY POLICY
DMCA POLICY
REAL VAMPIRES LOVE VAMPIRE RAVE
© 2004 - 2026 Vampire Rave
All Rights Reserved.
Vampire Rave is a member of 
Page generated in 0.7003 seconds.
X
Username:

Password:
I agree to Vampire Rave's Privacy Policy.
I agree to Vampire Rave's Terms of Service.
I agree to Vampire Rave's DMCA Policy.
I agree to Vampire Rave's use of Cookies.
•  SIGN UP •  GET PASSWORD •  GET USERNAME  •
X