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Do you consider it to be wrong, that people resemble themselves with god(s) or for the same devil(s) and why?

My own point of view is factually already explained in other posts, but will briefly put it forward.

I am a spiritual atheist, believe that the universe is filled with energy, which we can near or use trough the archetypes.

As such I don't consider it wrong to see myself as another god or devil.

Though I don't believe in the devil, it's a men made idea, to control others, especially used by monotheistic religions.

Do I considered it morally wrong? No.

Do I considered a tad bit inaccurate? Yes. We are by definition, not possible to be Gods.

It maybe depend on how you see a god.

In the monotheistic religions which are based on Abraham, god is written with a big G and is said to be almighty. Rather strange point, as it brings an unbalance & needs an evildoer, who hurts & misleads people to seemingly restore the balance. But that is another discussion.

If you look at for example the Roman, Greec, Egyptian and many other pre-christian gods, they are more human then we would think of. And several of them started of as humans.

In their image it isn't strange to call ourselves gods.

There was a guy, a sports reporter, David Icke, who said on TV that he "felt like Jesus." Of course there was an uproar and the comment was taken as proof that he had gone mad.

He was speaking metaphorically and I think that's where things go off track a lot.

Just because a person has a go at channelling say Venus energy for a love spell doesn't mean they're a) Venus, b) a goddess, c) schizophrenic or d) thinking they're a planet.

Likewise, just because we're people and not "Gods" it doesn't mean we can't try and connect to these things and at least try to experience more than just every day root digging.

My 5 cents worth ...

Well, We always will follow either one, can be Devil (good) or God (evil), because that is our way of always being inclined to support the one who is manipulating our instinct.

I believe we are all gods or goddess. We all are able to give life and take it

I believe the defining factor in being a God is will power.

As a God your wishes and desires are reality... that's what makes you a God.
Last time I checked no human being could will a person to death, Nor can they will a life into existance.

Man is not God like, and I thank the real God for that... I know some pretty stupid people!! It would suck to have to live out theie wishes and desires. lol

Indeed, the god thing is on a deeper level, in the end our body will decay, though it can be slowed down, even the strongest people will go under in the end.

Have been around people in old folks homes a lot, and some of these just lived on through their will power, once that fell away, they soon afterwards died.

Maybe should have put the original question different, but the discussion is already interesting.

I know several people who trough will power obtain things in their lives, so they at least partly direct their own life, and there is some insight, that men can achieve a god like status, without being a rock star. Lol.

But its correct, not all men achieve this & I agree this is a fortunate thing. Some people wouldn't be possible to live in accordance with it.

Everyone does it in some way or another. The way we interpret such things is entirely personal and we all show it in different ways.
It's not really immoral - tribes paint themselves in fantastic patterns and designs for their beliefs, and it's seen as an honour.

Even a lack of belief is shown some way.

I believe for the people that do consider themselves as one is mostly a spiritual motivation for them and to boost there confidence and self-esteem throughout their lives to have a healthy spiritual body. But it could be a different reason for other people.

AS a pagan I believe all women are representative of the Goddess/es and all men the Gods

That's kinda cool ... I like that.

We're made of stardust, after all.

Apart from that one guy I met the other day ... :-)

I don't believe there such be a strict definition on what/ who we represent or are archtypes of.

In short, imitation is the highest form of flattery.

I think that everyone has a right to believe what ever it is that they want to about theirselfs.

In the bible it states that men/woman were created in God's image, in the spiritual/mental sense more so then physical but it does not say that we can be a god. No human can bring back the dead or live forever so i guess that pretty much sums it up lol

I'm not sure if its morally wrong for one to belive that they are a god but I think that they could be just full of themselves or maybe its a self motivating thing ? I dont know.

lol

Ok you think you're a God?? Then Just look around you!!
Man runs this planet... does what we've done with it look like the work of a supreme being??


http://youtu.be/zvduwykVVHE

Genesis Chapter 1, verse 26- 28

26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28: And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Men has behaved after the word given to him, and took dominion over all. Though we do realise in our days, that this can't continue, in earlier times they took the word as being correct, especially in the Victorian Era.

Now we realise that the earth can't keep supporting our way of life, but with a still growing world population, it's hard to reverse the process. Meanwhile the earth is indeed polluted and destroyed, but by people who had hardly any spiritual insight. The greed of men has brought him to destroy nature, kill animals and go into war for power over oil and other things needed to sustain his way of life.

Men will life in a changing world, that will be much harsher. Its a basic action/ reaction thing. Nature itself is restoring the balance, and the choice is us to see, what is happening and react according to it.

How we see god or the divine is also of importance in this thread. Do you see god as a omnipotent being or as one that is in union with the all, so, factually being a part of it.

For example see the difference between the monotheistic god and those of ancient Rome, Greece, Egypt and closer by in time, India, Japan (Shinto). None of the last were seen as omnipotent, they also had their faults, as men on his way to self deification.

Maybe it would be better to ask, if we can become like a minor god, though that's a tricky way of writing it.

The choice of men, in a music clip.

http://sorisomail.com/email/12091/clip-censurado-nos-eua--mickael-jackson-.html

The great challenge men has before him, changing his ways and as such his existence or annihilate himself.

Making the right decision is maybe a divine one, and we don't need to be omnipotent for this one, we all can make the differnce.

As such, in my view, there are many ways to become a god like creature, or as said in a previous post a minor god.

The discussion about if a god exist and if it is an omnipotent being is factually ancient.

Some back ground infromation can be found on:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox

As stated already in previous posts, as a spiritual atheist, I do not believe in a omnipotent being/ creator god, and as such don't see any problem with a path to self deification.

Ofcourse everyone is entitled to their own views on this topic.

I have always believed in later years that people's morality will be based upon common sense, regardless of spirituality or non-beliefs.

If one takes the words of the Bible regarding creation into context ...'made man in His own image'...then I see no reason not to state that mankind as a whole are god-like beings...demi-gods.
We sure appear that way to our pets - lol!

I personally think that most of the Bible was not fully translated correctly

I think we can safely say, that the bible and it's contence was influenced by people over time.

For example Irenaeus of Lyons, who decided that several writings, didn't belong into it, and rejected them. Now these are known as the gnostic writings.

Early christianity seemingly wasn't one way of thinking, but there were several influences and views, by the time of Constantine the Great a more severe structure was being build, as the different views in christianity led to sometimes severe problems and riots.

Many gnostic lines of christianity were forbidden, though some survived till the middle ages.

We can imagine, that all this also influenced the bible.

I have done a lot of research over the years and this is what I believe. I am not saying it is fact. I can't make it anymore than a personal belief. I won't quote from the Bible because that is just one of many religious writings.

I do believe there is a creative force that is not personal and is some sort of sentient energy.

Most of the others called gods which I won't capitalize because this form (God) seems to be owned by certain factions, were actually people who had lived. They were leaders and great warriors, most of them. Some were female and some were male. Many of the religions are based on someone or something that was once living and then died one way or another. Some were killed by other tribes, war or even family members. Some were just recreated as something else to discredit them such as Astarte who in legend became Asteroth and was thought very heinous by the newer religion. Many were like that and some cultures elevated their rulers to the title of gods and built up false legends around them such as the David and Goliath story. If you do the research you will find this was custom and what they believed about their gods corresponded to the mentality of their time.

I don't necessarily think it is wrong or wrong for people to believe they will become gods or are gods incarnate as long as it is a spiritual belief and not some form of mental illness. Everyone has some sort of belief about their existence or the spiritual side of things even if it is nothing at all. That is something as well. I honestly don't care if someone believes they are or will become gods as long as they don't become a despot.

You know that is very true I never thought of it like that, because the other gods in the Egyptian culture were once people aswell, so this could be a real fact.

The way I see it, people can believe they are who ever they want to be. I personally find it comical that anyone would even consider that they are a God or whatever. Delusional would be more of a definition in my opinion. Please note, this is only my opinion. I won't argue with anyone.

In the chill of the night, will you deny my ability to grant life or death when you take your last breath by my choosing?

No I don't find it morally wrong.

Depending on your views and experiences you can agree or disagree I believe that I was blessed by my goddess and will work to serve her a a highpriestess kind of how Catholic people think of saints of Jesus etc

So in a sence we are who we are you can't change it

Do you consider it to be wrong, that people resemble themselves with god(s) or for the same devil(s) and why?



No not at all. In a biblical reference and please bear with me through this explanation I some times rant:

"Is it not written in your law that I said ye are gods and all of you are sons of the most high"

Now a few things...first the word god...the word that we use for the Supreme "Being", God, comes from a very pagan origin. Thus the word god is used generically by many different religions to refer to their deity or “invoked one.”

The English word God is identical with the Anglo-Saxon word for “good,” and therefore it is believed that the name God refers to the divine goodness.

God goes back via Germanic to Indo-European, in which a corresponding ancestor form meant “invoked one.” The word’s only surviving non-Germanic relative is Sanskrit hu, invoke the gods, a form which appears in the Rig Veda, most ancient of Hindu scriptures: puru-hutas, “much invoked,” epithet of the rain-and-thunder god Indra.


When the King James Version of the Bible (KJV) was translated in A.D. 1611, the translators used the words common to European people. Instead of translating a word properly, by using the Hebrew or Greek meaning, the translators replaced the true meaning of the Scriptural words with words common to their London English vernacular.


So as not to stray too far from the original question, this is just a basic for the word god.

So there were many many gods of the ancients some positive some negative depending how you looked at it.

Solomon of the bible had power and control over the Jinn, from where we get the word genie. These were real beings that had real powers that Solomon controlled. They were the beings of the stories of demons and malevolent entities, shape shifters and the like. But what happened when Solomon lost control of them? They went into the world and became the nightmares of the ancients. And in order to survive among men they needed to organize themselves.


I'll end that there...but no it isn't wrong since many "humans" today are the products of these beings from centuries past. It's a genetic thing...work with it.

Doru -

You know that you and I often see things very much the same way... this is not one of those times how ever.

A terrorist can walk into a crowded market and decide to either blow up the place or not blow it up... we aren't about to start worshiping them for their ability to mudrer someone.
See, just because you can make the decision to either spare or take a life doesn't mean that the ability to do so is a God like act.

Now if you killed someone and then a day later decided to bring them back to life - then that would be an act of God.

You know to come to think of it a God isn't always necessarily a divine being that can do supernatural things, a God is usually something that is divine its just like if a person does nothing but praise about money then thats considered a God or like the pagans some use to worship certain stones and considered them Gods primarily because they were worship but there was a belief that they could do supernatural things I am not throwing that part out but this is just a new perspective.

No I don't see a problem at all.

In my religion, as many others, there is a basic understanding that everything is interconnected and a part of everything else. There is even a chant/meditation that goes, "I am the goddess/the goddess is me."

Which of course you can change out any name and/or entity you see fit. Its mainly about the idea that we are a part of the energy of the earth and the deities just as they are a part of us. It goes as far in helping us remember that if we are a part of the goddess, then strangers are as well. And if we show respect to our deities then we should offer some respect to strangers as well.

-- But of course sometimes they prove unworthy of it ;)

As another member on VR, Hagur, would say; "I am the power, I am the glory, I am another god", and as I myself bring it forward in a rite, that I sometimes perform; " The powers of Sutekh flows to us and through us. And as such we reclaim our state of being, becoming gods amongst man."

The reference to Sutekh is archetypal, and though I think, that my view onthe image of god is known, I again bring forward that this in my view, isn't an omnipotent being, but more like the gods we find in Roman, Greek, Egyptian and many other pre christian religions.

I do not consider it morally wrong. There are religions that practice this method and I do agree with one of them.

Even Christians and other Holy God-religious types believe their 'body is a temple,' a thing they praise as something sacred and/or holy.

I think we need to remember that most ancient religions have their Goddesses/God in the simile of humans both male and female.

What we need to remember is that the term God or Goddess implies something more than average or mundane.

By definition:

The supreme or ultimate reality as:
a) the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b) the incorporeal divine principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit: infinite Mind

* Merriam-Webster *

Again the term aplies to a specific idea... just because you decide you're a God doesn't actually make you one. Like wise just because you decide to worship a french fry doesn't make it a God either.

I love your definition....

wheeeeeeeeee.... I'm a Goddess.

More than the average mundane. Or perhaps I'm just delusional?

You decide. Joking apart, many folks are more than the mundane, especially the really good singers. Their vibrations create emotions and perhaps more.

The Merriam-Webster dictionary seems to be a little theistic, the result of our culture.

Don't think that the ancient people would agree with this vision, a little to one sided, fitting more in the black/ white vision of Abrahamistic religions.

I at least don't share their idea, since there are other opninions, like deism, atheism, agnostic, etc.

On wikipedia we find some other articles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-deification

Morality is what you make of it. What you may see as right or wrong for that matter other people may not see it in that sense.

To each is own ,believe what ye will .We exist among all living things and the dead .So how could you really know if your a god or goddesses anyways .

You're attitude and actions?

If one is going to claim to be a God, must first have others to agree that you are, for what is a God without it's supporters? To hold such a title means being the best at what you stand for. To be Great, to do what no mere mortal is capable of. The Eternal.

Anyone so much as calling themselves a God, are beings whose names echo highly throughout time and history.

Such names were given to people like Alexander The Great from my recollection. Most of the Gods were probably, and most likely, physical beings at one point and thus we have statues and temples and the like to represent who they are, and what they stood for.

The Devils are just the beings that i would like to call, the workers of chaos. They can be highly misunderstood for those who only see black vs. white. However in my own viewpoint, they are merely one and the same and how we view them changes the more we learn to see the real purpose behind their existance.

To consider yourself AS a God or AS a devil, no it is not wrong for we are all made up from the same energies and as these Gods and/or Devils/Demons themselves. It is within us all to figure out which we want to embrace, be it one sided, or accepting of both in a matter of opinion of course.

Anyone who claims to be Deity will have to prove it to me.

I thought someone would have a response to that. *LOL* I believe women are representations of the Goddesses and men the Gods.

I did mel, it was erased. recap I'm gonna get one follower than come back and proclaim myself as a god.

Well depending on what one conceders a “GOD” as you mention an energy tapped into through archetypes is something I agree is a good way of looking at it. And yes the concepts are man made. I also believe in personal experience of your gods or spirits or archetype, and Until one evokes or invokes a god or spirit or angel or demon or archetype of some sort your only going to repeat what the other guy said or what your told to believe. The problem of not finding your “god” is you repeat a lie or someone’s delusion.

Ceremonial magic helps you bring the god into you, you also learn to control and work with demons and angels.

I personally have no issue as far as a well read student with teacher practice such arts, I see a danger as in new age and wishy washy wicca paths( not all) that don’t learn there gods and think snapping ones fingers gets a gods attention .. and every time is far from true, this just stinks of McDonald fast food instant gratification knowledge being sold to people out there. lol
Another danger would be do you know your god and do you know what you have summoned was your god if you haven’t read more than two books from different authors and paths.
those who dont lead a good life and follow cleansing rituals and so forth, should never expect a god form to want to enter into there mudded minds and un clean body.

Well that’s just the tip of issues, lets see where it goes.

hunter, though in order to prove yourself a deity you first must be able to prove some pre-sxistence form and none i know can do that.

Well mel if I wanted to prove I was some all-powerful god maybe but just a deity all I really need is worshipers, emperor worship is a great example of this. For what really makes a god but the people who worship it. No worshipers and most gods are just powerful beings with a bad temper.

I don't think it's wrong but I don't exactly see it as something that is totally true. You can view your self in whatever way you want, it doesn't mean you are a god. A god in my opinion would be a spiritual being with immense power, not just spiritual pressure but also a being that had control of some kinda element or was capable of doing fantastic things. We in these forms cannot do amazing things like that.

We as souls come here to learn and teach others about certain things. Maybe in the spiritual realm we are gods of some form. Maybe we are very powerful and we just don't know. I don't believe when we die though that we think the same things as we do now, because now we are only half of our selves.

Whatever the case is, if someone wants to believe that then I try to respect that because it is their way. No one should get in another persons way of belief or knowing just because someone else doesn't believe it. We cannot truly judge another persons path because we are not them, only they can choose if it is right or wrong, even if they think they are a god.