The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

Quoted from an article:

"According to the World Health Organization’s 2004 World Health Report, infectious diseases accounted for about 26 percent of the 57 million deaths worldwide in 2002.Collectively, infectious diseases are the second leading cause of death globally, following cardiovascular disease, but among young people (those under the age of 50) infections are overwhelmingly the leading cause of death. In addition, infectious diseases account for nearly 30 percent of all disability-adjusted life years (DALYs), which reflect the number of healthy years lost to illness.

Among the infectious diseases throughout the world there is the baseline matrix of infectious diseases that constitutes an ongoing threat. Then there are diseases that occur intermittently, some as little blips on the radar screen and some as major public health issues. At some point in time the matrix diseases have all been emerging diseases. But after a while they become so entrenched that they are considered part of the background matrix and not emerging or re-emerging diseases. So as we eradicate diseases such as polio and smallpox, something else emerges and takes their place. This is the nature of the perpetual challenge of infectious diseases, as stated in this article."

Rest of the article is here:
http://www.milbank.org/reports/0601fauci/0601fauci.html

My question is this: As humans continue to tear up land and move deeper into once protected areas, like rain forests, and as we continue to populate and make more enemies, new emerging, and re-emerging infections have definitely become a problem.

They have even passed a bill recently: HR8791 Homeland Security Bill - that deals with the events of a widespread infection, possibly resulting from a biological terrorist attack.

Video about the bill here( though most of it is classified):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlvxIdSI7V4

Do you think it's possible that a widespread infection (whether terrorist or just accidentily brought here) is something likely to happen? Viruses such as Lassa, Hanta, Marburg and Ebola could devastate a population quite easily(and all of them have had recent outbreaks). Already there have been serious events with Malaria, Tuberculosis, and West Nile, and Ebola continues to crop up and wipe out villages in Africa.

What are your thoughts on the threat of infectious diseases?

~Darken

the resident evil movie and game series is somewhat based on biological terrorism, along with most zombie and mutant games, movies, tv shows, ect. So it is possible if one is smart. the theory is already implanted

Pandemics have happened before and will most certainly happen again.

I think so too; I think it's inevitable. We know for a fact that in 1976 during an outbreak of Ebola Sudan in a village in Africa, a group of Japanese scientists and doctors went to the village under the pretense of aiding the victims. All they actually did was collect samples of blood and tissue and then leave, they didn't do anything to try to help. Now I'm not saying they have any intention of using what they collected as a means of biological warfare, but the possibility, if not probability, remains that their are others with exactly that intention. The size of the period at the end of this sentence could contain billions of virus particles, and it would only take a few to start an outbreak.

~Darken

there's always going to be some sort out virus out there, whether it be the common cold or a more serious disease. I suppose if a pandemic did come about like resident evil then the government would have to act accordingly.

Of course a massive pandemic will happen, they happen all the time relatively speaking. The real question is will the government overstep its bounds especially in the case of limited infection spreads. The gov has a tremendous amount of power (unconstitutionally) that rests in the hands of a few, mostly unqualified, people except for the fact they have power. That's what I worry about.

Killing the planet and the evil humans getting sick from it is just silly in my opinion. Nature is not a thing, it is the collection of all things with NO will or consciousness of its own. The Earth can't fight back, it can however respond to changes in the same way a tree moves its branches to reach sunlight aka basic chemical reactions and simple feedback systems. Humans are a part of nature no less and no more than the ants we step on and our actions are exactly what "nature" allowed because we evolved them, thus cars are natural. Animals wreck the environment and kill each other the same as humans the only difference is we can do it on a larger scale.

Now, part of infection and virus adaptation isn't from us uncovering some disease in a newly cleared forest but the act of infecting itself. When I get sick and pass it to someone else my immune system and the other persons' immune system will attack the virus or bacteria and the infectious agent will adapt to those attacks possibly turning itself into an even more dangerous disease over the course of time. Whether from deforestation, human to human or animal to human transmissions we will see new diseases and time to time many millions will die.

The sad part is government also permits tens of millions to die for the sake of insects. In the case of DDT and malaria our all knowing all wise governments (at the behest of self serving "uber" environmentalists and weak will of Western citizens) have said the illness of 3 billion humans is worth the protection of a a bird (look it up). When we have the means to save millions of lives but don't, there's your evil.

The real problem human beings face from disease are those that jump from animals to humans. Bubonic or black plague, Influenza, Small Pox, AIDS, Scars... any and all of the real pandemics are foremost animal based. This is why killing off all other forms of life on this planet is so important.

Seriously thought, man has faced all of these challenges before and faced them repeatedly. World famine, diseases, natural disasters wipe out hundreds of thousands of lives daily and yet we are still well beyond most extinction level events. Our population of 6.4 Billion really isn't in any danger. Yes the herd will definitely thin but even the CDC and World Health Organization recognize that the worst case scenarios don't involve a super bug that kills more than half the population.
As horrible scary and heartless as that sounds, a loss of 4 Billion people will still have us running the show... Life will go on as it always has.

If man is to truly be removed from the picture it will be by our own doing. I'm personally rooting for the genetically engineered zombie apocalypse... But things aren't looking good.
Financial melt downs leading to the collapse of government and entire societies, followed by world wars over resource seem to have a commanding lead at this point.

I totally agree Severus. Although it is still possible for humans to go nearly extinct via a natural disease.

The "collapse" scenario isn't one that would lead to our extinction unless nukes got out and then perhaps resulting genetic mutations would spread and we could find ourselves sterile after several generations.

But there is a very real possibility that humanity will at least be greatly diminished and set back 75-90 years technologically and 500 years when it comes to global population. All of this happening within 100 years.

Hopefully, we'll stop the stupid deficit spending, entitlement thinking and war mongering and focus on how we can save ourselves a) from ourselves and b) from external threats like solar flares etc.

Fast forward 70 million years and none of it really matters.

If, starting tomorrow, a massive drop in oxygen levels happens again like at the end of the Permian period it is likely humans would disappear entirely and never resurface. Though really it doesn't matter.
In my mind the most likely end to our species is evolution. As happened with the earlier humanoids, when one more advanced version appears the former recedes until extinction with the neanderthals going extinct about 30,000 years ago. It's kind of funny too, considering that the neanderthals were much stronger than us, with slightly larger brains. There were more of us >=] and we had better social skills. The next model will probably be another step towards collective strength and communication.
Sorry if that doesn't make sense; it's pretty late and i'm rather frazzled.

Humanity is going extinct period because we will evolve into something else over time. I think the question is which scenario more likely, will we become something new and in essence survive or will we be wiped out from disease, natural disasters or war?

I do not think we are going to go extinct, we have survived this long. However, I think it inevitable that a large number of us will be wiped out by a combination of all three. So many people have already died from all three, and I think the pattern will continue.

My concern at the moment is that a highly infectious agent will intentionally be spread in major population areas. And obviously since the new bill was passed, others are concerned that is going to happen as well.

Severus - "This is why killing off all other forms of life on this planet is so important." Really? You think all other forms of life on this planet should be killed, made extinct? What a barren world that would be. I wouldn't want to live in that world.

~Darken

Darken - 99.9% of all species that have ever lived have gone extinct. Humans have been around for 250,000 years out the 3.5 billion year history of life. And we (homosapiens) WILL go extinct either by the process of evolution (turning us into something else) or by disease, war or something like an asteroid.

Darken I did responded to your inquire about my answer.

I stated that I was joking and it was just sarcasm.

Unfortunately the Forum Police deleted the post. They use to only deleted nasty comments or comments that had no merit to the topic. Since I was answering you and both our comment were on topic I'm at a loss as to why they did so. They use to send you a message explaining why they Censored you. I guess accountability is only something we are expected to have!!??

Severus- It is not required that anyone send a message as to why the posts where deleted. If Staff members feel that a post is off topic, then it is removed.

If you have further questions or complaints about the forum, please direct them to a Dominar or Master Vampire in private.

Thank you.

Well Xzavier, I'd have to disagree with you on how long we humans have been here and how long life has existed, but that would be a separate topic.

No one can say that humans absolutely will become extinct, no one knows that. By the time this planet dies, we may have reached the stars by then. Who knows.

However, the topic of this thread was not about extinction events at all, it was simply about what people thought of the possibility, or probability, of a major outbreak of infectious disease, either by nature or intention.

~Darken

Well a major outbreak can cause an extinction. The only disagreement as to the age of life would be something along the lines of creationism or intelligent design (which can include aliens mucking around with our genome). There's zero evidence of any other theories besides ID and evolution to my knowledge.

To say we won't become extinct is like saying the Sun wont die..it will. Sure humans may reach the stars but adaptation occurs within our DNA basically every generation and we will evolve into something else, period, and there's not a scientist on earth who would disagree except those who don't believe in evolution.

Thats the beauty of a discussion, it's possible to incorporate additional elements besides answering the question "will an outbreak happen" which I think most people on the site and anyone with knowledge about diseases would agree it will. That kinda limits the potential of the convo if the answer is already given.

Heck, even if by our own hands and genetic designing, one day we will be something different than we are today.

Infection plays a role in this and it's totally on topic. Up to 100,000 elements within our DNA comes from viruses and other external sources. Without them we could be a very different species.

How great would it be to live through an infection or plague that purges the earth?!

Consider the difference in size between some of the very tiniest and the very largest creatures on Earth.

A small bacterium weighs as little as 0.00000000001 gram. A Blue Whale weighs about 100,000,000 grams. Yet a bacterium can kill a whale.

Such is the adaptability and versatility of microorganisms as compared with humans and other so called "higher" organisms, that they will, without doubt, continue to colonize and alter the face of the Earth long after we and the rest of our cohabitants have left the stage forever.

Microbes not Macrobes rule the world.

You have food poisoning killing dozens of people lately, yet a simple remedy of Honey and Ginger would have killed the pathogens in about two hours. But no one says a thing about this to them and so they suffer a needlessly. The Doctors won't tell them this it's against their State mandated rules to prescribe outside of the standardized medical regulations.

So the person who gets sick from a microbial infection is both at the mercy of the Medical practitioners and the microbes.

There is a plant that grows in the rain forest of El Yunqe in Puerto Rico, It has been known for over 40 years that this plant, alone by itself with no other concoctions added, can cure cancer. Yet if you pick it you get a free ride to prison under the Rain Forest Protection Act and do some serious time.

So again human kind is at the mercy of the big pharmaceutical companies who were the major influences behind the RFPA, and at the mercy of the microbes.

Screwed from both ends....

It takes approx 15 virons of HEP-C to infect a person, 15, combined that's MUCH less than the size of a red blood cell. And all hepatitis c subtypes (1a, 2a, 2b etc) developed only with in the last 600 years. Viral mutation is a huge factor and is what, I believe, would be the cause of any major natural outbreak.

There is a risk of an engineered disease being let lose and any such germ could potentially cause billions of deaths with a vaccine nowhere to be found.

An interesting note, bacteria and viruses that naturally live on and in the human body actually outnumber human cells. In other words there are around 100 trillion cells that make up a human, there are some 1,000 trillion individual viral & bacterial cells on and in us. Many make us safe and some we probably couldn't live without (like Bifidobacterium). Most of the germs that live with us live in our gut and about 60% of your feces is actually bacteria!

Anyway, like I said earlier some 100,000 elements of our DNA we acquired over the lifetime of our species from viruses which means we have had widespread infections before (although your DNA changes fairly often during your own lifetime).

In the event of a real outbreak by a novel strain (new/unknown) IF a vaccine could be found it may take 6 months or even several years depending on the complexity of the virus/bacteria, which would mean the illness of potentially billions.

The most fatal diseases that surface frequently have a fatality rate of ~10% but there are many others with rates in the 60% range and designer bugs could reach 90-100%. And all of these deaths occur within a month of a person getting infected so even with the best medicine many people will die. The common flu even kills 36,000 people a year in the US.

Some of the suffering can be greatly reduced in the real world when it comes to things like malaria. I find it disgusting that we don't allow people to protect themselves.

I suppose it's going to happen eventually

Its great to see you back in top form Zav! Everything you have said is spot on.
It isnt really a matter of if,it is a matter of when.

Interesting subject which have to be analyze in a way to include Terrorism against the non-combatants. Some humans are getting ready to use and to develop weapons that can infect a major population. We must Includes: Anthrax, Plague and Smallpox . The use of Botulinum toxin which is a protein produced by the bacterium Clostridium botulinum, and is considered the most powerful neurotoxin ever discovered. Botulinum toxin causes Botulism poisoning, a serious and life-threatening illness in humans and animals.[1][2] When introduced intravenously in monkeys, type A (Botox Cosmetic) of the toxin exhibits an LD50 of 40-56 ng, type C1 around 32 ng, type D 3200 ng, and type E 88 ng, rendering the above types some of the most powerful neurotoxins known.[3] which is the most toxic substance know.. And finally Toxins: Staphylococcal Enterotoxin B. Staphylococcal enterotoxin B (SEB) is the toxin most commonly associated with classic food poisoning. It has also been demonstrated to cause a nonmenstrual toxic shock syndrome (TSS).[2] SEB has been studied as a potential biological warfare agent because it can easily be aerosolized; it is very stable; and it can cause widespread systemic damage, multiorgan system failure, and even shock and death when inhaled at very high dosages. However, SEB is classified as an incapacitating agent because in most cases aerosol exposure does not result in death but in a temporary, though profoundly incapacitating, illness lasting as long as 2 weeks

I think it's perfectly possible - just look at the way swine flu spread, and the way people reacted. It's good that did happen - because we know how inadequately we are prepared for something like that of a more serious nature.
Australia has very strict quarantine. *shrug* We put a lot of faith into that. Swine flu (as example) never got further than one state here, apparently.

Well...I will agree that your cool country is ready, but, My humble opinion, here in the USA, We are not ready for a mass of terrorist attack with a biological weapon. Let say, a psycho decide to do that in 34th street in NYC at noon time. Do you know that is at least more then half million people walking..imagine the chaos.

Without writing a novel I will simplify and say ,...Yes, bacteria and viruses evolve for many different reasons, develop resistances , mutate. ( Although not proven, here has even been theories that new strains can be brought to earth from meteors.)

More closer to home anytime you have a species that is concentrated and the population is out of control , disease / infections will spread, it is natures way of cleansing/ balancing itself..... natural selection. It waxes and wanes.

Abuse of antibiotics can play a factor was well, organisms can and do develop a resistance. They are all too eager to conform.

I believe that if we continue to allow pollution to proliferate, there will be more diseases of man made environmental catatsrophes.

My opinion...the FDA and our Government has used the general populace as lab rats for as long as we've been here and then also before that...and it continues...personally...I think I want to be a Morlok, not an Eloi...better to be at the top of the food chain living underground...but lets hope I don't evolve large eyes, looking like an over-average chinchilla...:P

Given historic precedents such as the Black Plague, I think near-global epidemics of an infectious disease is a certainty, as we keep seeing. And as has been stated, when one disease is "managed" another seems to pop up. The threat of bio-terrorism is very real, but there are plans and procedures already set in place for such an event. Whether that will help the common people or not remains to be seen.

But worrying about what might happen when you have no way to control events only serves to ruin the time you have today.

I agree that a major epidemic is a very likely future. Not an extinction event, no, but definitely a major population reducer. Considering that many people in high places think the US is already way over populated, I wonder if they would consider such a thing to be good. One could even go as far as to suggest that there is a possibility that a plague of some sort could be caused by our own people, to 'thin the herd', so to speak. I honestly wouldn't be surprised.

Four questions then:

Do you think The US government is above initiating a biological attack against its' own people? (under the cover of it being a 'terrorist attack' of course)

If/When a widespread infection does occur, what do you think the government would do about it? Do you think they would take extreme containment measures such as bombing an entire city?

What measures do you think people could start taking themselves to prepare for a pandemic?

~Darken

I honestly think that something like this will happen soon. whether it be by the hand of a god, by the hand of the government, or by the hand of our own stupidity, there will most definite be an event that will cleanse the world so that the population will be brought down. i mean, how many people have died while caught in a flood, snow, or any other natural catastrophe, and they have all been recent. a lot of people would put this on seasons, which it very well could be, but in my mind, there is a world cleansing going on.

Do you think The US government is above initiating a biological attack against its' own people? (under the cover of it being a 'terrorist attack' of course)

No, they are not above initiating a biological attack...look at what they've already done here:

http://www.whale.to/a/cantwell9.html

Btw...my paternal grandparents became so-called "downwinders" and died with cancers that should never have struck them. There is no genetic predisposition for them and they were the only one affected...and yes, they lived in a small town not even considered a speck on the map, called Morristown.


If/When a widespread infection does occur, what do you think the government would do about it? Do you think they would take extreme containment measures such as bombing an entire city?

They would do what they've been doing all along for other places considered a "contamination threat"....shut the city down, slab it over, put a fence up and move the population that is left three miles away to ensure they're not "exposed."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/27/us-oklahoma-town-demolished-idUSTRE70Q7QW20110127

You can read more on how our government closes "contaminated" areas down in my journal under Research. Pincher, OK was a mining town for our nation's leading resource of raw materials, Eagle, supplying our government since it's creation for over a 100 years and is currently the ONLY resource company for the military and space program...not to mention the leading pharmaceutical brain-child for using radiation compounds as a cure for cancer...incidentally brought on by the radiation experiments in the 1940's.


What measures do you think people could start taking themselves to prepare for a pandemic?

Measures? We are complacently blinded to what is already in motion within our lives...what can you do at all when you are stricken with cancer or a malicious viral infection set upon you to cull the population?

Preparations can only be determined by those who preceded us in history...or shall we forget how our own government attacked citizens in TN, going so far as to drop bombs on them. When finally brought to court and asked to prove such allegations, these same citizens brought their proof...unexploded ordinance into the courtroom...with the good ol' US of A printed all over it. As for wondering why? Shall we forget also that an entire city was hidden from public knowledge that was also responsible for the manufacture of the same bombs?

http://www.historynet.com/oak-ridge-the-town-the-atomic-bomb-built.htm

Mmmm, much of this was plain ignorance rather than deliberate.

It was however, reckless.

o.O...ignorant not intentional?....seriously, take a look into the process of approval for drugs through the FDA...if anything the government is not ignorant but rather lends its success at getting away with such lab rat methods due to the ignorance of the people. How else do you think they get that leaflet of drug information inside the package of each prescription given out to patients in droves? What? The statistics of death and serious side effects were tested on clones? If they can't test it here stateside...it (whatever it is) gets tested in some nondescript country that nobody here knows exists or cares about.

A government study takes a course of 10-15 years to complete...all the while, we the people, consume whatever it is they're studying...like filtered city water. One such study finished two years ago...after 7+ years of observation...found that no matter how much filtering contaminated city water goes through for drinking...it is impossible to filter out the residual residues left from drugs taken by people that are excreted into the city water supply by the usual methods...that bottle of water you buy....enriched with mineral for taste and put through the reverse osmosis process so you can drink it...is still carrying around residual doses of someone else's prescription and non-prescription....legal or not...drugs.

...and what would be the effects on the human body in consuming a constant source of residual drugs in drinking water processed from city water?....oh..and another government study also confirmed that every source of reverse osmosis water in the United States is contaminated....hmmm...let me see...I think our government Intentionally would allow us to continue consuming while studying us for the effects on our health years later after the fact of knowing that storing such chemically laced water in bottles that release carcinogens when left in hot warehouses...WILL cause Cancer...and why?...because the leading pharmaceuticals company in developing Cancer Treatments is funded by our government....

Ignorance + Bass-Ackwards Self-Serving Politics = We're Screwed

A Dutch researcher has created a virus with the potential to kill half of the planet’s population.

The virus is a strain of avian influenza H5N1 genetically modified to be extremely contagious.

“I can not think of a pathogenic organism to be more dangerous than this one”, commented Paul Keim, a specialist in microbial genetics who worked for many years with the anthrax bacillus. “I think the anthrax is not at all scary, when compared with this virus” , he added.


Many scientists are concerned about possible negative consequences that could precede the publication of this research. There are many fears regarding bio-terrorists who might find useful tips or a whole ’recipe’ to plan biological attacks. Demands are being made for the establishment of an international institution to oversee such dangerous research projects.

-Such dangerous research projects- Ya think !?
Wait.....you mean all this time there never was one? Now that is something to think about after all incidents in the last...what? 30 some odd years? Now they feel they need to have such an institution?


"It’s just a bad idea for scientists to turn a lethal virus into a lethal and highly contagious virus. And it’s a second bad idea for them to publish how they did it so others can copy it,” believes Dr. Thomas Inglesby, a bio-terrorism expert.

Uh....yea that's a no brainer.

Oh well.....