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Spontaneous Human Combustion
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MoonlightSavage
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22:03:48 Jan 11 2012
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Scary?

Taken from www.crystalinks.com
Spontaneous human combustion (SHC) is the alleged burning of a person's body without a readily apparent, identifiable external source of ignition. The combustion may result in simple burns and blisters to the skin, smoking, or a complete incineration of the body. The latter is the form most often 'recognized' as SHC.

There is much speculation and controversy over SHC. It is not a proven natural occurrence, but many theories have attempted to explain SHC's existence and how it may occur. The two most common explanations offered to account for apparent SHC are the non-spontaneous "wick effect" fire, and the rare discharge called static flash fires. Although mathematically it can be shown that the human body contains enough energy stored in the form of fat and other tissues to consume it completely, in normal circumstances bodies will not sustain a flame on their own.
I find this to be very peculiar. What do you think causes this?



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dabbler
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23:32:45 Jan 14 2012
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Its all illogical ramblings, no such thing is possible. Its beating a dead horse.



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naylastar
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02:39:02 Jan 15 2012
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The idea of this terrifies me. It makes me feel afraid thinking about it. We're never going to get anywhere with the causes because any evidence possibly left behind goes up in flames. I know a lot of people who would put it down to the hand of God. I don't buy that but I don't know what else to think either.



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Brooks91
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05:03:17 Jan 16 2012
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I dont know. Maybe it could have something to do with the electricity in your body. Its a pain in the ass for me, personally. I cant wear watches normally. If I do, They are dead within 3 days. I have a watch band that is leather and rests under the watch face so it seperates it from it my skin. I dont know the physics of all this, so I cant explain in scientific detail. All I know is I drain things. (Shrug) And static electricity effects me ALOT worse than normal people. When I get that little shock, it makes the bottoms of my feet pop with the shock too. And anything metal Im wearing will shock me. I cant carry a cell phone on me when I am taking clothes out of the dryer because Ill get static electricity attacking me and it gives me a super shock where anything near my cell phone with go numb.

ANYWAY! The point is, my theory would have to be the effects of static electricity on the human body. Maybe you doused your hair with flammable hair spray or have some weird chemical on your clothing and you expeirence a static shock, with normal people it wouldnt be a big deal, but if the shock is strong enough, maybed it ignites?

Who knows really if this is even something that really happens. if it is though, perhaps thats an explaination on why they can never find evidence.



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MoonlightSavage
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19:58:37 Jan 18 2012
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Well that's pretty interesting. So with static electricity, would it be enought to ignite a whole body and reduce it to ashes? Its' funny how every theory has not been disproven nor rejected. Some of these hypotheses include pyrokinesis, deliberate suicide by arson, accidental ignition by cigarette, low voltage electrocution, freak lightning strikes, demon attacks and even the Smite of God (insert laughter).



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LunaHag
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22:23:30 Jan 19 2012
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I watched a documentary on this and it was proven that clothes catch fire and fat on the body continues to burn like a candle and a wick. When the oxygen in the room is used up the fire cannot continue hence the unburnt body parts remain.All bodies found like this usually are near a gas or elecric fire.



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Loki666
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03:36:23 Jan 21 2012
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The human body carries more electricity than a lightening strike... i would say that is more than enough to create a fire but what would cause the energy to attack us?



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markus666
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17:30:31 Jan 21 2012
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Correct me If I am wrong, if I remember, someone said that the body, due to a rare illness, produce a fume, which is highly volatile and if the person get close to any flame, PUFFFF...catch in fire, and because the inside is full of this fume, they burn within 2 minutes. Cool not to have this fume as a friend!!! LOL



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MoonlightSavage
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23:47:56 Jan 30 2012
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That's scary. Do you know the name of this condition. I'll look up some updated info about SHC.



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moonkissed
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00:07:20 Jan 31 2012
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I think it was in an episode of Picket Fences.



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moonkissed
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02:20:18 Jan 31 2012
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Picket Fences was a series that ran from 1992 until 1996.
In a 1993 episode the former Mayor is discovered burned to death, all that remains are his shoes(if I remember correctly). The town coroner believes that it is spontaneous human combustion and goes to great lengths in his attempts to prove that combination of stress, alcohol and medications caused the perfect catalyst for SHC.



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Xzavier
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02:35:06 Jan 31 2012
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First, the body does not contain more electricity than a bolt of lightning.

Secondly, ramblings, really Dab?

There are many, many documented instances of this and the only question is what causes it.

The wick effect theory and others tend to fall short in explaining everything in my opinion.

It could be a mix of many different things from chemical reactions in the blood or stomach to only apparent "spontaneous" combustion or others. Personally I've found it difficult to really explain it but the facts remain things like that happen.



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Oceanne
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13:00:47 Jan 31 2012
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They were probably just sitting a little too close to a fire source when they cut major cheese.With their clothing trapping the gas and their body so full of Methane,they just kept right on burning.



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Xzavier
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00:17:01 Feb 01 2012
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Well, the amount of methane in the body is actually very low and is mostly contained in the lower large intestine, you would need a flame in that area..if you know what I mean.

But O you do bring up a point I've wondered a lot about.

There's no doubt these people caught on fire, the question is was it an internal thing or did they just die naturally (heart attack etc) and then drop a cig, catch on fire, and only seem like they spontaneously combusted?

I know of 200-300 cases of unexplained deaths along with combustion over the past century or so. So it's not like this is some rampant issue or something anyone should really worry about in general.

In the end it comes down to cause and there looks to be a lot of them. The body has many flammable and caustic chemicals inside it, centered in different areas, and when you add things like alcohol & heat to the mix then it's difficult to predict what may happen.



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Oceanne
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00:24:14 Feb 02 2012
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LOL Yes,I do know what you mean..but I couldnt resist.



At this point Zav,I dont feel it ignites inside the body but is ignited from an outside source...In all the cases I have heard about,there is always a flame somewhere close by.Ive even thought about bacterial toxins at one point,and it could be caused by any one or several of the reasons youve mentioned and that,coupled with fat,toxins or chemicals just kept rght on burning.
Either way,its strange to be sure and no doubt a horrible way to go.



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MoonlightSavage
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18:52:44 Feb 02 2012
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I could imagine what people go thru when they discover their body just burst into flames. I don't think its external due to rationalizing that a person would attempt to put out the flame and finding that they are not successful.



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Oceanne
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15:31:05 Feb 03 2012
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Well,thats just it,as far as we know,the body really doesnt produce enough combustive chemicals to light on its own,but that doesnt mean to say that once ignited,by a cig or fire close by(which is a consistant theme in the cases) that it wouldnt continue to burn.It could,due to fat content etc... I have also noticed that those who are pictured are somewhat overweight,have one or more health issues and are 9 times out of 10 ,smokers.
This in itself is most likely a beacon pointing to being started by an outside source.



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Oceanne
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16:25:10 Feb 03 2012
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From what I can remember,there are different types of it too and they have put them into sub catagories.Ive heard of,but not seen ,that there have been some cases where there was supposedly no outside fire source.Whether that is true or not,I cant say.I've also heard of cases where there was a witness around.
Could you imagine seeing something like that?

Eek.



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Xzavier
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17:02:37 Feb 03 2012
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O, you're totally right. I think something like 85-90% of the victims had some kind of weight or other health problem that slowed their mobility, they also either smoked or drank. That does point to an outside source of the flame and why they seemed to just lie there. It's more than possible they simply died and then caught themselves on fire.

However, that doesn't answer ALL of the cases and I have heard of a few dealing with relatively healthy or young people, several survived. And others that were less flame and more smoke.



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Oceanne
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18:35:58 Feb 03 2012
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Right Zav,Ive heard that some have survived too.

Wonder how those people described their experience.I might have to look for some testimonies.



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Xzavier
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06:00:05 Feb 04 2012
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I remember one case specifically.

It was a relatively young couple and the man had gotten back from the doctor for a cold, if I recall correctly.

They were sitting on the bed and suddenly they noticed wisps of smoke coming up off his jeans. He said he felt warmth internally and the smoke continued, coming off of him in different areas. After several minutes it stopped leaving him with no real injuries.

Now, I heard that from a documentary about the subject and I don't remember every little detail but it does stick in my mind. Feeling warmth and having visible amounts of smoke coming off you, freaky indeed.



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Oceanne
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11:01:15 Feb 04 2012
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You arent kidding Zav.Talk about hot flashes!!

From what you describe,it sounds almost like a chemical reaction.And as you and I both know,those dont require an outside resource in that case..We do produce some flammable gases and and chemicals naturally,but the amounts are sooooo low.It would have to be a seriously
strange set of circumstances.
Oh,the pic in the original post.Looks like her head was almost in the fireplace...



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Oceanne
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11:19:20 Feb 04 2012
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Markus,I must have missed your post before,and yes,there are several conditions ..fungal and bacterial that produce toxins which are flammable.Either by the processes of live fungus or bacti theirselves or by dying .Ive seen this in sheep.The theory looses ground for me though at one point,because if one where to have one of these,the person would be sooooo sick that they wouldnt be walking around or going on as if everything is normal..like the guy Zav spoke of in the doc.Not to say it absolutely couldnt happen though.



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markus666
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18:09:10 Feb 04 2012
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An article taken from the Library of congress:

The Alleged Spontaneous Combustion of the
Human Body.
A year or so ago, as closely as we can approxi-
mate to the time from recollection, we were asked
to pass upon the credibility of the statement made,
on the authority of a reputable physician, that he
had been personally cognizant of the occurrence
of this remarkable phenomenon in the case of a
woman. We, at that time, denied the possibility
of such an occurrence, and gave reasons for our
doubt respecting the truth of the account above
referred to.
We note the following remarks on this same
subject in a lecture to workmen lately delivered
by Prof. Brian B. Lewes, in connection with the
meeting of the British Association at Nottingham.
They very admirably supplement our earlier re-
marks:
Having now discussed the more common cases
of spontaneous ignition, and seen that in every
case it is due to rise of temperature, brought about
by chemical action until the igniting point of the
substance is reached, we are in a position to un-
derstand the impossibility of spontaneous combus-
tion taking place in the human body.
The process of respiration by which the tissues
of the body used up in every action, voluntary or
involuntary, are got rid of by a process of slow com-
bustion, gives a normal temperature to the living
body, and it might seem, at first sight, possible by
preventing the escape of such temperature, to in-
crease it to a point at which ignition might be
possible; but we know by experience that the ef-
fect of swathing the body in non-conducting ma-
terials, so as to prevent the escape of heat from it,
results in profuse perspiration, and before the liv-
ing flesh could undergo combustion it would be
necessary to drive from it the whole of the moist-
ure which it contains.
The human body contains from 75 to 80 per
cent. of its weight of water, and in order to evap-
orate this amount, an enormous amount of heat
would be required, and life would have been im-
possible long before the necessary dryness, of the
mass bad been arrived at. In fact, the moisture
present in the body may be looked upon as its
great safeguard against the effect of heat, and it
is perfectly possible for a living man to remain in
an oven which would roast a steak or cook an egg;
the evaporation of water from the skin taking up so
much heat that the temperature of the living flesh
would never rise above a certain point until the
moisture was exhausted. It used to be supposed
that the cases of spontaneous combustion took place
in people whose intemperate habits had caused the
body to become saturated with alcohol, and that
it was this substance which caused its ready igni-
tion; but as Liebig pointed out, some forty years
ago, the presence of the alcohol could have no ef-
fect, as, if we take a sponge and soak it in spirits
of wine and ignite it, the alcohol burns away and
leaves the sponge untouched, and the same thing
would undoubtedly happen in the case of the liv-
ing flesh. ___________



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MoonlightSavage
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19:15:22 Feb 04 2012
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That's pretty interesting. I wonder why this topics doesn't come on a show like Mythbusters or those shows that recreate mysterious phenomenon.



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Xzavier
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22:30:02 Feb 10 2012
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I know there have been experiments using pigs and the theory of wicking. They used an external heat source and was able to consume most of the carcass.

As for humans, wicking would only work if the person was overweight.

The idea of internal combustion may be more improbable.



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MoonlightSavage
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20:55:20 Feb 11 2012
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That captured my curiousity. Would these experiments be on Youtube by any chance?



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Xzavier
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21:35:54 Feb 11 2012
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I'm not sure if they are but I'm sure you could find them. They were done on a TV special about the subject, either History or Discovery.



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Oceanne
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02:43:37 Feb 12 2012
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Heres the first one...



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Cadamia
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19:20:35 Feb 15 2012
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There was alot of talk about this in the 1970's. I blame it on disco and polyester. You just can't move like that in artificial fibers.



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MoonlightSavage
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19:50:02 Feb 27 2012
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That's funny! There hasn't been much talk about it in recent times. The old school shows like "Sightings" and "Unsolved Mysteries" don't come on anymore.



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dabbler
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01:03:54 Feb 28 2012
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The reason there hasn't been any recent talk on it indicates that the topic is at rest and deserves no more mystery attachment.



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MoonlightSavage
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02:26:11 Feb 28 2012
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Ah but that's where you are wrong. Any experience in human history can never be at rest. The paranormal and supernatural lives on and will always be so. Regardless of convenient dismissal.



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dabbler
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19:13:49 Feb 29 2012
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It is all old hat, nothing but smoke and mirrors, the whole industry that thrives off "supernatural" stuff perpetuates it just to sell books, and hold seminars. Practical explanations will never be accepted by those so astonished with the Mystical explanations, and whimsical theories.



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MoonlightSavage
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19:42:37 Feb 29 2012
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That could be true. There are a lot of frauds but, to outright dismiss anything paranormal or supernatural is somewhat irresponsible. To dismiss without evidence only opinions doesn't hold any weight.



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Minotaur
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20:27:54 Feb 29 2012
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i think this is the most bogus thing ever mentioned nobody has ever seen someone combust always by themselves



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dabbler
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12:46:30 Mar 01 2012
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You state,

' To dismiss without evidence only opinions doesn't hold any weight." I am not following your reasoning, perhaps you could elaborate.



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MoonlightSavage
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14:49:22 Mar 01 2012
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Sure,
To outright dismiss anything regardless of topic or subject, without any evidence other than an opinion is irresponsible. Remember, people thought the Earth was flat and dismissed any notion that it was anything other than flat. As you know, history taught us otherwise.



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dabbler
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15:29:26 Mar 01 2012
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Opinions are not, and never will be fact, and opinion is based on conjecture, to suggest that a person can just burst into flames with no ignition source is illogical, and the evidence demonstrates this sufficantly to close the previously unsettled cases.



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LunaHag
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15:55:04 Mar 01 2012
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I agree, evidence has always shown a logical reason, just like crop circles! its a similar subject and quite honestly an 'urban myth'.



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MoonlightSavage
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16:38:28 Mar 01 2012
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Well that is great points both of you make. Frankly, there is no definitive answer for spontaneous combustion. Maybe this is one of those areas that will never fully be understood. It's a definitely possibility.



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dabbler
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18:20:58 Mar 01 2012
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No it is not, human bodies do not contain the proper conditions required to self ignite. Until those who claim otherwise step up and bring something to the table they will just have to acccept that their is nothing paranormal about it.



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dabbler
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18:30:55 Mar 01 2012
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I should remind you also that all past cases brought by biased sources hardly count to anything when it comes to reliable data, especially when the "researchers" had preconcieved notions as to what they were observing. And all data is inharently flawed by the same reasoning. So all the cases you say make your case, actually do little to refute the test already done to demonstrate the same end results.



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MoonlightSavage
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18:38:35 Mar 01 2012
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Well sir I never made a case! Nor have am I making a case. I asked the initial question what are the thoughts and opinions of other people and what can cause SHC. Don't assume that I'm arguing a case.



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Issit
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19:55:40 Mar 01 2012
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In my mind I started to form a hypothesis:
We are made of 4 elements, now-
when element Fire gets into a great imbalance,
the result will be SHC.

To support it would help if people would sometimes
liguify (Water) , petrify (Earth) or just suddenly disappear (Air).



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dabbler
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16:29:44 Mar 02 2012
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The cases I refer to are the cases that you base your notions on.



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gothicvampyric
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06:44:44 Mar 03 2012
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Not all spontaneous human combustion victims simply burst into flames. Some develop strange burns on their body which have no obvious source, or emanate smoke from their body when no fire is present. And not every person who has caught fire has died -- a small percentage of people have actually survived what has been called their spontaneous combustion.



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dabbler
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15:49:50 Mar 03 2012
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Then all you need to do is provide a source that accounts for those cases. Otherwise all you say is conjecture.



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Issit
Issit
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18:01:30 Mar 03 2012
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Agreed with Gothicvampyric,
I read a book about this phenomen and there they descibed and documented cases of SHC where the people actually have not died.

And I think also there was a documentary about this on Nat Geo (?)



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MoonlightSavage
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20:43:50 Mar 07 2012
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These people who haven't died, are there interviews or videos with them recanting their experiences?



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Issit
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22:34:35 Mar 07 2012
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You do have info "about them" on the net,
there is also documentary I saw some time ago,
but not sure where I would find it now.

But they were talking to a survivor.

It was a woman who had... spontaneous burns,
they talked to a nurse who saw the case; she said she believed it was a SHC case.



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MoonlightSavage
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20:00:58 Mar 19 2012
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That's really interesting! I remember searching the net years ago on this topic and they always had these pics like the one I posted, but never a survivor.



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DeathsEmbrace
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11:06:19 Mar 21 2012
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I just personally dont see how we could burst into flames, when the only real dry part of us is our hair. i mean yes, we have gases as well lol but um... it still takes more to burn in that large of an area



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MoonlightSavage
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17:22:05 Mar 21 2012
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That's a good observation and this phenomenon is very mysterious. I wish there was a conclusive explanation but I guess that's why it's a mystery.



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xxSeductressofWhoresxx
xxSeductressofWhoresxx

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03:38:04 Apr 20 2012
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i honestly think that shc is totally stupid and illogical!!! i dont think its humanly possible the only way its possible is that someone else did it it doesnt just happen all on thier own!



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SATANS666SOLDIER
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13:05:32 Apr 23 2012
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has anyone here ever seen ot happen or the aftermath of it?



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LordWolf
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03:24:24 Apr 30 2012
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there are numerous documented cases of finding a burnt or semi burn corpse that has burned...and its the only thing burnt. lets use Occams razor...if the person dead, and burnt or partially burnt, if as in many cases the clothing is only singed or partially burnt, what are the other plausible explanations? i dont like to rule things out until they can be debunked by experimentation...not something i see myself doing anytime soon lol.
what are the details of the experiments done with pigs?
~W~



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by Vampirewitch39 on Jun 05 2012  •

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