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Superstition vs Honor
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Arvalin
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00:19:18 Mar 28 2013
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Bon Festival, The Ghost Festival, Thursday of the Dead, Totensonntag, Samhain, Death Anniversary,  Día de los Muertos  , All Saints Day, and the list goes on. It seems all religions (set of beliefs) have something for honoring the dead.

On the flip side of the same coin, there are many superstions surrounding the dead. Zombies, Vampires, Ghouls.

The question I ask of you is do you believe the superstitions came to enforce the honoring of those that had gone before, or did the honor come before the superstitions. Why are so many cultures so meticulous about the deceased?



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KurlyQ4196
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01:22:59 Mar 28 2013
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I think they both came at the same time

maybe the dead haunted them and did certain things repetitively for doing certain actions, so then came superstitions

good luck charms came from things they believed to ward off the spirits

honor came from realizing the dead need to be respected and not wanting the negative consequences of superstition

that's my idea



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LordWolf
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02:44:39 Mar 28 2013
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most anthropologists believe that the dead were put into the earth and honored so that they would not return and be in a bad mood.
~W~



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KurlyQ4196
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00:23:02 Mar 29 2013
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and basically what I said is they do bad things when in a bad mood



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catseye
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08:50:52 Apr 03 2013
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people might be dead but they may still need help and stay in contact with their family



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NikkiAidyn
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17:16:11 Apr 03 2013
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I believe that the honor of the dead and the superstitions over them came as one. Our ancestors probably felt as though they should honor the dead because they believed that the souls of their ancestors would feel grace by it and find their place in the afterlife. They most likely felt that if they honored their dead, those that have passed would not come back to harm, or tread this world in confused misery-but, would instead carry on to the next level and "bless" them in return.
I would say that both honor and superstition created the practice of honoring the dead. As with honor, they could just bury the dead-or likewise, but with superstition, they would feel as if to carry on something more to bless the spirit.
The spirituality and kinship that all humans hold are the spirituality and honor to grace the dead.



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dabbler
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00:30:08 Apr 05 2013
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The average cost of a funeral in the United States is between $6,000 and $9,000, as of April 2010. The cost of a tombstone (also called a gravestone, headstone, or grave marker) is just one of the considerations to be made when planning for the services of a deceased loved one. Headstones can cost between $300 and $5,000, or even more for very elaborate tombstones. The price depends on the material, size, design and type.

Someone always makes a buck off of the grieving.



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Arvalin
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00:32:48 Apr 05 2013
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Dabbler are you saying that the only reason people honor those that have past is so someone can make a profile? I am trying to make sure I understand the purpose of your post.



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dabbler
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00:41:22 Apr 05 2013
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No, I am just showing how willing people are to provide proper accommodations for their deceased loved ones.

Personally I find the Tibetan funerals to be the most appealing.



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Arvalin
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00:42:55 Apr 05 2013
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In some older asian cultures it is not a large funeral. The big honoring is done after the dead has been buried 3 years. They dig up the cadaver and scrape the bones, burn the remains and put the bones in a sachel and rebury them so they can completely go to the after life



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dabbler
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00:49:23 Apr 05 2013
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http://www.tibettrip.com/features/sky_burial.htm I like most Asian rites.



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Arvalin
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00:53:14 Apr 05 2013
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Dabbler, what about something like Jamaica? I do not think they do it anymore but I know in the past, they would wrap the coffin in chains to make sure whatever was in it would not come back again?

Yes most Asian rites seem to be more settled than American. Also, something like the day of the dead. To remember them as they were even though they are gone. It seems like a lot of people want to honor those that have past even though, if one truly belives that the soul flees upon death, why return to the place of the dead, unless you want to not have the spirit return in anger?



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dabbler
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00:55:28 Apr 05 2013
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Chains? Wow, I see that as a fear of the deceased.



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Arvalin
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01:04:42 Apr 05 2013
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That would go with the supersition lot. A lot of Jamaicans, according to a few friends that studied over there, fear that anyone killed as a murder victim would come back as a zombie, kinda like the fear of vampires in the olden days of driving a stake through the coffin after chaining it as well. So I will ask again, just to make sure those that are reading keep up with the basic question.

Did Superstition make people honor the dead for fear of retribution or did the misuse of honoring the dead cause the superstition?



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dabbler
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01:10:29 Apr 05 2013
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I suspect grief plays a large role in honoring the dead, it consoles the living.

Funeral pomp is more for the vanity of the living than for the honor of the dead.
- La Rochefoucauld

Sadly this quote addresses the materialism that has invaded the occasion.



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Arvalin
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01:15:37 Apr 05 2013
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Dabbler, do you believe that monetary gain due to the dead's "arrangement after death" is something that been around for "ever"? By forever I mean when instead of money wampum or trades were arranged?



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dabbler
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01:23:20 Apr 05 2013
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even back in Egyptian times Status, and Caste determined ones right to rites. I am not saying that it makes up the whole of funerals, but it does play an evident role.



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Arvalin
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01:25:18 Apr 05 2013
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Its sad that money and such lead to burials. LIke the catholics used to believe one had to purchase his right into heaven or live in purgatory forever.

I think I would rather have had chains over my coffin..at least I would be buried.



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dabbler
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01:29:17 Apr 05 2013
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That's also why the Native, and Viking Funerals are so awesome, regardless of status one was equally laid to rest/sent to the afterlife by fire/pyre.



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Arvalin
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01:37:59 Apr 05 2013
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You talking about where they would kill 6 virgins and then lay the body on the ship, set it on fire and send it out to sea?



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dabbler
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01:51:45 Apr 05 2013
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Curious, I've never heard about that being an element of a viking funeral.



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Arvalin
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01:53:29 Apr 05 2013
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If it was a higher ranking captian, etc they would slaughter virgins for him so he could have them in the after life



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dabbler
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01:58:10 Apr 05 2013
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The Egyptians would entomb a Pharaohs entourage along with them to. I guess one was either seriously devoted to serve a pharaoh in such a way, or simple obligated to serve in such a manner.



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Arvalin
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01:59:02 Apr 05 2013
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I would be terrified of those buried alive would come haunt me. *shudders* I do remember hearing that though.



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dabbler
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02:08:39 Apr 05 2013
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It demonstrates how far people compelled by superstition will go to attempt to honor the deceased. I am always curious about how such rites were initiated to begin with, as in the origin of such practices (the root of the superstition).



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Arvalin
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02:11:02 Apr 05 2013
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I am curious as well. Like why did they kill the living and spill their blood over the dead? Woudln't that make the ones dying the ones to be feared instead of the already deceased?



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AsphaltTears
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23:37:23 Apr 06 2013
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There were a lot of superstitions about the death process even up into the Victorian era and in some areas of the world they still exist. Occasionally comatose people were buried alive and back then sometimes the body was only wrapped. It depended on the culture because in some places it was forbidden to burn the bodies. So if someone woke up and could get out of the ground if not buried that far from the surface or if wherever they were being kept people mistook them for something supernatural. They could be referred to by any number of things depending on the area including zombies. Many cultures did honor their ancestors so it could be in a number of ways and in most cases a combination of both. I don't think the question can be answered with a pat answer. It would depend on the culture involved.



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LordFangor
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00:26:22 Apr 07 2013
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To answer you question; it is ancient. I believe that even the Neanderthals buried their dead with grave goods. "Grave Goods" were thought to be needed by the deceased in the afterlife. As such down through the millenia the honoring of the dead has continued in various forms.



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by Vampirewitch39 on Jun 23 2013  •

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