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why does everyone associate vampirism with satanism, not all people do but there are some. i think if people actually undestood us an what its about there wouldnt be this link.

hmm...
People think I am Pagan, Wiccan or Satanist.. though I am neither.
I'm Agnostic.
I do wonder why they associate Vampires with the other three...
Vampirism is its own thing.

because they have to label to simplify their limited understanding and knowledge.

but vampyrism is its on thing it does not need a religon to come attached with it,
they only label it because they see it as strange and weird an do not want to understand it

It because its unknown. Unknown means evil. Its the same with witchcraft.

Cause vampirism is associated by evil.

thats what im talking about, they dont get a chance to know us they just label us as evil

I could give a longer answer, but I understand that the following answer suffices. No matter what type of explanation you've come up..you can only understand the answer if you look at it through their perspective I think. People who are raised as Christians, or in a dominantly Christian culture..associate the 'dark' with what is Satanic. This is not an educated view, but it is the majority of the public view.

- D

In this world almost everything that has to do with bloodsheding is evil and associated with satan! Even the predatory animals like wolves are considering evil by most of the people!
It just a thing that narrowminded people cannot comprehent in other way!

We live today in a society that anythng that does not fit the norm is satanic. Look around you, watch the news spew information about the "axis of evil", why because they dont fit societies views. What is societies views, who makes them, certainly not the people. Its the church and the state and we have no say in either. You either fit into the "norm" or you dont fit in at all. I may have gone off a little here but its all related. More and more you will see your rights taken away. What you arent a practicing christian and arent giving all your money to a church, well you are evil. Mark my word, the day will come when everyone is marked that doesnt believe what our govt wants us to believe. Our Govt rules the world. And we the people have no say, so sit back and let people think you are evil, what is in your heart is what matters most. No one can take away the feelings in your heart and to me that is all that matters.

i have to agree with 'NonMortusEst69'

it's like asking why is it getting dark in the evening

you won't change anything by asking...

I don't believe the point of the post is to change the 'outside' views. It is not worthless, however, for a person to understand why they are grouped in with this.

- D

but that makes no sence, at least it would n't make any sence for me

I've had this conversation with a couple of people, and I think the reason most people assume that vampires are evil is because they don't understand what a vampire really is. They read the Anne Rice books and watch a few movies and think they know what a vampire is. When they hear about people saying they're vampires, they automatically think, "Blood-drinking murderers. Evil."

To put it more plainly, some people would rather know 'why' the world chooses to exclude them than blindly accept that they do. Asking why it gets dark isn't going to change the fact that it is dark, but not asking implies blind acceptance. If you tell someone something about themselves long enough, often times they'll accept it. The people doing the judging were told exactly this..that it just IS this way because we said so. For the people that do ask though, they have a right to understand it. Even if the people who already know are jaded enough that they feel the answer is pointless.

- D

There is no way a vampyre can be satanist. A vampyre knows NO God but himself.

ok...that was enough plain for me tu get what u wanted to say...
but...ah, it doesn't matter anyway

I agree. There is such thing as atheistic satanism. Not every satanist believes in God.

I guess they combine everything together for the mear reason that to other people when seen wican or the others named already to them look the same.It is all different and most times has to deal with black and devilish topics.

It's the same way everyone associates the word 'occult' with evil. Apparently, they have no idea what the word means. It means HIDDEN! What's evil about that which is hidden? In a way, electricity is an occult force. Is it evil, then? People are ignorant and would rather condemn something than do a little reasearch and understand it.

i totally agree...i was actually kicked out of school for being a vampiress because they said that i was also a satanist...personally the idea of being a satanist scares the hell out of me...but i do think that people should not judge us all because of one or two

That sucks. How can they be so ignorant? I know a great deal about Satanism and Christianity and while some ideals are similar, some aren't. Personally, I would never be a satanist. I wouldn't necessarily want to be a vampire, either, though.

The world is full of judges and you will never get away from that, Its learning how to accept ii which is what i am doing.. learning. As I said, as long as we know what is in our hearts to hell with the rest of them.. Its either educate them or forget about them..

she went to a christian school. she just told me.

i was kicked out of my skool as well for bein a vampiress they said that satanism is not permitted and i should burn in hell.
im atheist and they said if i was doin anything to do with occult culture i was evil and a satanist

RE-HE-HE-HE-EALLY?! *excuse, while I choke to call of drama back into my throat* I'm glad no one in this room has 'recovered memory' as well. Or a lot of us would be in real trouble, huh? :) It's surely a pity that you had to go through that...but, I think this leads back to the reason that it's done in the first place. Learned presumption. This can be fought(though not cured) with education.

- D

Alright I see where most are going with this but I just gots to ask If you are born a vampyre an such forth why can't you follow another belief sinc eyou are something an can't you believe in something else? Tis just a question is all an most associate vampyrism with satanism is because most christians anything besides their god is worshiping the devil an they are mind set in such to which would prove difficult to change they can't think there is something outside of their bible

I would love for those who associate the occult with satanism to provide some sort of evidence. As I've said before, 'occult' simply means that which is hidden beyond the five senses. And those people who condemn vampirism and magick have yet to find a reference within the bible that actually speaks against magick.

“There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. “For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord; and because of these detestable things the Lord your God will drive them out before you. “You shall be blameless before the Lord your God. “For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do so. - Deut. 18:10-14

I believe Occult means specifically, 'secret'. From the Latin 'occultus'. A quick look at the definition of the word also states that it implies something 'beyond human scrutiny'. I can certainly see how any type of spiritually inclined faiths..like some forms of Satanism, can be included.

- D

I stand corrected. However, Deuteronomy is in the Old Testament, and can be enterpreted in many ways. Not every thing written there applies properly to modern life. Many of the old testament works were written with the aim of explaining things to simple, impressionable people. These books were also written at a time where pagan and barbaric practices were going on, and these works were aimed at keeping new converts from slipping back into the old ways.

Besides, I was told by a Catholic priest that magick and occult practices were not condemned by the church.

mrd: You could not put it in better terms.... unfortunetly I don't think everone accepts it.

I agree that those teaching are not applicable to todays standards. However, I feel they were written not to inform impressionable people..but to control and decieve them.

- D

perhaps 'coerse' would be a better term. It was done with what the writers felt were the best interests of the people in mind. They were just a little misguided.

People fear what they don't understand, and often group the things that they don't understand together. People don't understand Wicca - picturing all Wiccans to be baby sacrificing demon worshipping witches, imagining Satanists to be evil, Satan worshipping monsters, and vampires, since they kill people would obviously be drawn to these two religions.

Of course, we know that neither of these religious descriptions is accurate, and we also know that vampires don't need to kill. But for those who don't know, who haven't studied or read up on these things, they are scary, unknown worlds that are best described as evil, because it's easier to label them as such rather than try to understand them.

I can concede to that, LaMuerte. I suppose it is reasonable to assume that those who wrote the texts were just as entrenched in the ideas as those that would follow them. Thank you for helping me to tune that flaw in reasoning, religious animosity seems to cloud my thinking. :)

- D

People fear the unknown, and to society, the main unknown things are Satanists, Vampires, Wiccans, and Pagans.
So society just bunches them all together.

as I grew up people often associated paganism with satanism I have studied most religions and have found that satanism isnt what people may think it is satanism is more of an opposite if you dont believe the way the "main" stream believe then you are a satanist

everything and everyone has a label i think its stupid but people say what they think as oppose to what they really know or what they are willing to understand

wen ppl saw the bolts in my bag they automatically assumed that i was a pagan for sum reason...... not entirely sure y but thts wat the said lol

people have strange views on things they dont know much about

I agree santanism is not vampyrism and the reverse is true as well they are seprate things human beings tend to assoiate all dark things into one which couldn't be further from the truth.

I still think most people do. If I am to mention even wicca to people they automatically mention satanism.. come on, what can be further from the truth. I dont thnk I have met but a few people on here that are satanists and that has nothing to do with being a vampire, its their personal choice. I am sure I have met some in public as well that I just dont know about. I really at this point in my life dont care what others think about that. I am 40 years old, yeah I know old, and I couldnt care less, there are more things to worry about that what the jones's think about me.. Starting Thursday when I go back to work though, there is going to be a different Frankie altogther there. Its time for a change for me. They all hate me at work and well, lets just say, I am done with it. No one better say a word to me.. or else..

there are people how will never understand what they can't accept and ther are some who spread rumors and do acts to bring this titles apon the nightbreed

people are stupid and they dont do research

Depends on how you look at the situation. Some say vampyres are satanic, some don't. Honestly there isn't a right or wrong answer to this question. Though I feel labeling something satanic just cause someone else does is poor judgement in my opinion.

Thye dont do research and it has been around since the beginnig of time.. I dont know if there is a way to change that unless you were to speak up... I cant think of another way,

I believe that most of people don't know about satanism, don't know about vampirism, and don't know about life!.

I'm done with interpretations of the Bible, Mr la muerte. The propaganda about "interpretation of the bible" is just tha last source the Church is using to keep its power. It is just a social acommodation for these new times when people just don't believe. Church, the same that society, needs a change....they're just changing their principles so we get our faith back. That's it. That's the interpretation about. Everything would be possible in christian religion nowadays because they know they have to change with us. If we let all the core beliefs being just human interpretations, we are not going to have any conviction soon.

They judge harshly what the don't want to take time to learn about or understand.

people are just ignorant

because...all the religious people believe that the feast of blood is a sin against jesus christ after he supposedly (no offense to any christains out there) died and gave his blood to relieve us all of sin when we asked and repented for forgiveness....it is in a way a sacrament against jesus christ as we are taking the blood he shed for us...and going against god is a sin...a really really really bad thing...in doing such we are labeled as satanists...that is just what someone told me...a christian mind you! um ya...bye-mieta-

i think people believe the two things are connected because of what they have been told by the church or by there family, such as stories, this can also include many films because they show that vampires are evil etc. these people do not take the time to read about, or be involved in vampyre groups, so they percieve it to be satanist because they do not understand it.

because that is not the way they are, so they assume we are with the devil.

let me make it easy for everyone..... Vampirism could be assosciated with satanism fro two reasons and two reasons only in my book.
if you look at the people Vampirism was supposed to stemmed from you will notice one distinct trend they all turned their backs on their god. Kain , Lilith, Judas. the only one who didnt was Vlad and he was called a mass murderer. so some of these people who have chosen to be turned have given themselves a direct link btween some of the most evil people known to exist, not only that but they brag about it like it kewl. also vapyres kill people- (christian eyes) = evil duh if i may so eliquintly put it. The last being that we practivce rituals with magic and suppot "Dark arts" people are ignorant to the fact that god not the devil gave them that power (my oppinion) but they go overboard and say we are evil. and who is the most evil in known existance = Lucifer.
thank you have a nice day.
-Deshler

Let me make it easier still. As far as I know, no serious scholars of vampirism equate the biblical Caine with vampires, that is White Wolf's. Judas, that's Wes Craven's whole deal. I can most certainly tell you that the overwheliming majority of Christians in America have never heard of Lilith, and certainly wouldn't group Judas or Caine as vampires. Lucifer, is a Roman god..and truthfully has only a place in the bible through error of translation. He is hardly evil, if you study his origins.

- D

okay well lucifer is a fallen angel who defied his god and judas is well thought by many "normal people" to be the orgins of vampyres. and no comment about vlad....im depressed

Only "normal" people who have seen Dracula 2000, to my knowlege. If you can point me toward a source that is not derived from White Wolf RPG's or Wes Craven's fictional tie ins..I would be most glad to see it.

- D

well honestly it stems from the fact judas was cursed as an immortal to watch the end of the earth unfold as punishment (that is what i was taught) i automatically assumed when i was young he was a vampye because they were the only immortals i had ever heard of. and its kinda a belief where i live that he could be the first vampyrre i personally believe in lilith and cain but i dont believe the deeds of others condem me (the sins of the father are not past to the son)

It's all about media....vampyres are portrayed as evil creatures of the night...and all the movies make them out to be a spawn of the devil or something...A person I know who studies into mythology says she read that the church started the fear of vampires to scare their followers...if your a sinner you'll become a vampire sorta thing

It's generally agreed upon that Judas hung himself after the 'betrayle'. Different stories display this with varying degrees of gore..but Judas punishment was ultimately damnation in the bible.

- D

I agree with him, the media has a lot to do with the portrayal of vampires being evil.

i thought he failed to hang homself but your view is appreciated .. you are very intellgent this is fun.

I think we might be careful to say 'Hollywood' and not the "media". The media views vampirism to be usually no more than Halloween fun..until a bunch of roleplayers kill a few people anyway. Hollywood is largely resposible for the demonization of vampirism.

- D

agreed hollywood brutalizes our image and that we are all heartless murders. media says its a goth trend..

Hollywood takes its cues from books. Don't forget that vampire novels are where the ultimate demonization of vampires really began.

Oral traditon..print..then film. Seems like a logical progression to me. Valid point.

- D

Thought I'd bring it up. Most people nowadays seem to think that vampires are the people portrayed by Anne Rice.

well if you look at it through thier view anything above them truly on the food chain is evil. we are considered like sharks with a more sentient and therefor we have a concieous notion of right and wrong. (sharks are considered almost evil but they get oout of it by being called animals)

STAB 666 : Did you read the whole paragraph? Well, the you should now that I was responding to Mr LAMUERTE

Duuuuuuuuu

I did indeed read your whole post, as I do every other. This is why I asked you not to start attacking the Christian faith in this thread, or even, in this forum.

:) STABB

That's just the tendency to view vampires as predators. If one feeds ethically, with a donor, then there is no reason to view the vampire as a predator. In fact, one could view him as an addict, for lack of a better word.

i agree with you taking life of a huiman is not nessacry but hollywood has portrayed us as things that need to kill and that we are all cold and heartless

Which is why I refuse to read or even advocate any fictional vampire book or movie. They mislead the general public.

Let's keep in mind though, that even vampires of legend..were indeed, cold blooded killers. I've never once read a legendary account in where a vampire stopped to ask if it was okay. I'll say that that type of killing would be unnecessary for us, but for a creature like legend speaks of..I wouldn't presume to say it's wrong.

- D

i am a true "dont knock it until you try it" or in this case live it. we arre judged to quickly. its prejuduice

Well that's also because the vampires of legend largely weren't real.

agreed most legends have no place in our modern day world. i believe we should study history and learn from it not live in it

That is of no consequence. I am saying that if your gonna use the word, you'll have to accept the association. If you go around trying to redefine words to exclude meanings they've have for hundreds of years..you can expect people will be confused.

- D

I'm confused as to how this relates vampyrism to satanism...

;)

I think it all stems from the idea of whether or not vampires can be consistently shown to have behaviors that are traditionally associated by Christian culture as evil, hence Satanic(in their view).

- D

well i belive that satanism is associated with evil justifible or not the majority believe it to be evil. and vampyres portrayed by hollywood to be evil. so theyt are linked through a common black

Exactly. It will take decades to change public opinion on vampires, if ever.

i dont care much about the public opinion
i just wanted to find out what reasons they have for us being satanists
i mean come on people (public not u guys)
just cos we wear black and have no christian beliefs ( sowie if u do but thats my point)
and sometimes get drawn to such things like the occult which means hidden if they had bothered to read up a little bit on it
doesnt mean we are satanists, you we need a lot more than that to prove to anyone we are satanists

Speaking of satanists, I never heard or read anything horribly bad about "Satan"...its more of a perception of how religions define "evil" than that of an entity since I don't believe in something being "purely evil". Vampyres can be good or evil in my personal view.

yea i can understand that and agree with that
but i was trying to figure out why most member of the public would imediatly link us with being satanists without gettin to know us

the only reason people think that way is because they don't know anything about the 2.....if it pertains to anything dark then it is evil and must have something to do with satan.......totally wrong.....i am a psy and am wiccan i don't even believe in satanso how could i be a satanist?

Usually they just listen to what others say of vampyres and assume the same, therefore it keeps falling upon poor judgement.

exactly. It shows that the public's ignorance knows no bounds. I wear a pentagram ring. Rightside up. They automatically assume it has something to do with the devil. Last time I checked, there are numerous meanings behind the pentagram, and the only time it pertains to the devil is when it points downward.

why dont you define what satanism is for those who dont know what it entails?

That seems like a rather lengthy idea. For a breif, but moreorless comprehensive view..I suggest viewing the definition found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

- D

You'll also see a similar view of Satanism by going here www.churchofsatan.com

I should state that the Church of Satans website only provides a view of philosophical Satanism, excluding all others as inferior..in fairness to those who would be curious. I enjoy the website, just be aware that the view is narrow before entering.

- D

I hate stereotypes. recently my cousin started asking "Do you worship the dark lord?" i could barely control myself. I wanted to laugh at him and punch him.

they can sterutype me all they want i just couldnt give a damn anymore
im proud to be me an if they dont like it then can go screw them selves

Vampyrism is a thirst and need/love of blood. not a religion. Whereas Satanism wether it be Lavey or Crawley Satanism, is a religion. I wish some fools would open their eyes enough in this world to define the differences between things.

Yes, there definitely is a misinterpretation (hope I spelled it right). Me, I'm totally vamp, but a Wiccans. We got a bad rap too.

I feel that people are always afraid of things they do not understand. People do not realize the we both need energy to live and that we generally do not go out and kill people. I might add that that jesus guy, he did some vampire stuff. Remember that "drink my blood and you will have eternal life"? yeah, sounds vampiric to me. I think that people misunderstand everything about us. Not only do they condradict themselves in most everything they do, they also hate us for not being them. That is why humans are weak. They persist. They never give up. But they are too weak to do anything about it. Thats just my thoughts.

would a christian be christian was bitten.....theres ur answer.

as i have said on other topics the reason they asscotiate vampires with satan is because people are afraid of vampires. what people are afraid of is usually what they say is evil. and since satan is evil then vampires get associated with it. not intended to offend anyone who might be a satanist just an example.

i thought we had already figured this whole thing out with a like 15 post long debate apperantly not or some people are not reading the whole thread first. one last complaint of mine why would some one go to a thread they knew nothing about just to say "i dont know anything about this" *twitch* quit taking up space >_

Yes, some people would rather post their own opinion without first reading to see if it had already been covered. Oh well.

The simple truth: Society is afraid of the unknown and will condemn it together with everything else that they have been told is bad.

Well said by both Deshler and LaMuerte, I think it's been pretty well covered.

- D

Clearly, this thread has run it's course.

:)