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There are plenty of Energy Vampires here on VR and there is a constant buzz about the 'need to feed'.

I've heard this hunger most often described as just that...a hunger - But i've also heard it called a disease, an addiction, a curse, and a gift...I'm not asking for the usual "it's a dark gift" or "it's a damnable curse" responses.

My question is more on the physical end of this spectrum. If the need is simply to 'feed' on the energy of those around you, why is it a problem to do this on any given day and at any moment (barring of course the times your alone). Are most strictly looking for willing donors and if the majority of the population neither knows about nor believes in 'energy' then why would it matter whether they 'donate' unknowingly?

The other half of the question has to do with the effects of not 'feeding'. I'm fairly certain (though not positive) that there is no long term physical effect of not feeding (like starvation or malnourishment) so that would point to the process as less of a necessity and more of a drug (like alcohol, cigarettes or actual illicit drugs) wherein one feeds for the feeling it gives and not because it actually sustains the body. That would also imply that energy vampirism is an addiction.

Any takers on this?

well, actually i can say from personal expierence.. sometimes i literally lack energy... i sleep and it is not re generated.... i always hated the term vampire mind you, but hence if i am not around ppl whom at least i can touch a little bit for energy.. i will be totally drained

I'm not knocking the vampire or the etymology or the use of the term (...in this thread anyway).

My point is that it would seem an easy addiction to feed when one is constantly surrounded by people (sources of energy). SO is the problem that most people only want willing donors or that there is more to it.

On the B side of the question, feeling ill or tired because one didn't get their 'fix' is common to every form of addiction. I don't doubt that there is a physical response to feeding or not feeding...but since I've not heard of anyone dying without it, it's nourishment might be more about creating a symptomatic effect (similar to the drugs I've mentioned) and not so much about actually nourishing the body or spirit. That could put it more in the addiction or substance abuse category since it's effects might be more desired than necessary.

yes felix i do see your point about feeling tired as part of an addiction.. what if the person doesnt know why the tiredness happend? in my case, i was always tired, went to doctors as i thought i had some form of tiredness illness (its quite common i heard too) .... but it occured to me that when i am around ppl, i feel a lot better, espcially when a large boost of energy is involved.. like anger... i never knew what it was called... actually i never knew what it was.. till i began to encouter ppl with similar expierences... even tough i hate to call it vampirisim (but that is just me) or an addiction.. its just a need i guess

Felix,

By that premise, any act which helps you live a more active life would be considered an addiction. But can a person be equally as addicted to vitamins as heroin?

Perhaps psychologically and after a lengthy period, the body might build a dependence, but the scales of driving neccessity are radically different.

If I forgot to take vitamins for a few weeks I'd probably not notice, but if I was addicted to Heroin and forgot, it's a whole other story.

Aren't parasites allowed to have moral standards?

Though a vampyre being could be construed as parasitical in nature, it doesn't need to define itself by that fact of it's life.

"We could be anything that we wanted to be."

Well said, Stabb! Interesting thoughts, Felix.

For awhile, I had blood tests to determine why I was tired...iron level was good and I took my vitamins reguarly and such. When I learned about taking energy and having experienced that, it gave me a different kind of feeling than waking up refreshed or feeling 'good'. It can be an addicting thing to take a little here and a little there and the feeling from it. I do not take on a regular basis, and only when feeling down or tired and even when sad, and it helps me in many ways.

Of course a parasite can have a moral value...any human is subject to moral thought. The reason I question the particular morals involved here is because the act of feeding from a host would seem morally 'ambivalent' whether or not they are willing. So the question of it's morality would seem more of a question about a vampires personal comfort with the situation over their morality...ie morals that make the vampire feel better about it not morals for the host.

If you took a regular regimen of vitamins and then stopped for a couple of weeks, you'd notice. Think of people who stop drinking coffee or stop exercising (if you want a more positive example)...what about the runners high. I know if I don't exercise for a week, I become tired and moody as well. I believe that my endorphine receptors have always been running on low which is why my body has a tendency toward addiction and energy highs and lows.

Rowiel, could that not have applied to you? Perhaps your body is lacking some piece or spark that energy vampirism gives you but that doesn't necessarily imply that it was a need...just as my possible low endorphine count doesn't mean that I had to get involved with alcohol or drugs growing up. It was just something that helped me feel better by balancing out a physical trait that was lacking.

i dont know exactly felix... but as said i dont feel that its a constant need, like some described it here... i just feel better, doesnt necessarily mean that i do it on a daily basis.. the difference is that now i am aware of it, while before i used not to be aware of taking energy... which is better for the people around me, as i will take care better of them

But where do you draw the line?

Once at that point of taking without concience, the slope is very slippery.

Your analogy unfortunately does not appropriate to the same function.

Drawing energy from another being is a direct manipulation of their personal energy system.

Viewing someone and making assumptions about them, or creating fantasy based upon their appearance, cannot be equivalated with the above process.

The word 'Parasite' has varied descriptive ability, so I'd prefer it not be used, since we are talking specifically about the feeding process and it's link to addiction.

Addiction is clearly linked to a psychological need, which can often bring about psycho-somatic reactions within the body, compounded by the damage done to the 'normal' operation of the body due to additional chemical stimulants, as you appear to have done.

The point may be that some suffer as a result of choices to damage themselves and that this damage is not irreversable, unless those choices continue to be made.

Whereas a system which does not work in the same manner as everyone else, either because of a natural imbalance, or some other change brought about by a natural evolutionary process, perhaps after during or after puberty, may not be chosen.

addiction is a psychological need that does create a physical dependence in order for a person to be 'ok'. It's not psychosomatic at that point...it's physical dependence. The vomiting, sweating, lack of energy, lack of appetite, and general suicidal tendencies of recovering addicts are not psychosomatic.

Now in my example of my own life, I didn't damage my body until later (jr high, high school) but I had the predisposition for it well before then. I've said, there are those that are born deficient of chemicals that make them feel normal or good (endorphins, etc) they don't need to be abusive to themselves to get there. The abuse is how they've dealt with that lower chemical deficiency. It's believed that many who are naturally prone to addiction are likely chemically deficient from birth (either genetically or due to damage from parental addiction during pregnancy). So while the vampire may have a direct solution to their energy deficiency, people like me have all the choices in the world for trying to refill those dry receptors...some good...some not so good.

As to the morality - I have to say that while my example is obviously a very different situation, I'm trying to show what a victimless crime is. You have committed a 'crime' on a person...an invasion of their energy...but there is no victim since they don't even necessarily acknowledge that they have the energy your taking. Perhaps i'm oversimplifying...I don't believe in karma (with the exception of self fulfilling karma). So my point leads more towards it's only bad if you think it is. If vampires are a natural thing and not some unholy mistake of the gods, then your feeding is natural and the rest of us are naturally the source. That's far less criminal than 'un'natural acts against your fellow man.

I would like to add not to take out the human factor. I believe it has more to do with the person. Just for an example. Compare people that drink or smoke. Some have the internal power to quit on a whim without a problem. Others are not as strong and will have negative reactions.

I think it's more of a need then an addiction. I am constantly feeding off energy from people. A little here and there. The only time it seems to be stopped is when I feed on blood.

It is a need. As energy from others through sleep... The closeness of others and they're energy given to me... it's all that can keep me going...

See it's some of these statements that make me think that it's not a true physical need...when someone says that they're nothing without it, what exactly do they mean?

Shedevil - You say it's all that keeps you going. Help me understand what happens if you didn't. You're tired? Irritable? Bedridden? Hospitalized? If you don't find yourself completely immobilized, then how do you decide which is physical effects or as Stabb feels, psychosomatic effects.

Stabb - I understand your desire to keep your beliefs pure on this but please make no mistake, a physical dependency can form with addictions. The psychosomatic effects are those that can continue long after a body has weened itself off of an addiction. The initial effects on the body and some of the long term effects on the chemical receptors of the brain are quite physical and not just in the mind of the addict.

My 2 cents....it's probably best to have a willing donor. Randomly feeding on energy from people on the street can give you some unwanted energy. Sometimes I can't help it, and draw in energy, which usually leaves me with a headache.

It's always better to have a willing donor, but in large crowds, it's easy to tap into the collected energy and get your "fix" that way.

So I would say it is an addiction almost, as well as a need. I know how you feel Rowiel. Except in my case, I have no idea how much I take, or how much I need.

Most vamps prefer a mass convention, a crowd of some kind or a gathering to do so. They consciously drain their prey around them. Speaking from personal ventures, I do on any given moment when the "need"/"Hunger" presents itself.

Also in some cases, certain vamps can only have certain types of energy ( Mania = Soccer crowd/football crowd/rave/nightclub), while others can pick up their required energy from whereever they happen to be. The stronger ( Or older/more experienced ) the vamp, the easier the energy is to find since they can consciously or unconsciously find it from anywhere within the limits of their experience.

Younger vamps, or weaker vamps choose only to be with certain areas or people due to their lack of knowledge, experience and simple weakness in controlling or exercising their "Inner Beast".

On VR, I cannot say that is why so many are here, maybe there are due to Sympathetic Vampirism, or it's a community everyone loves to be in.


"- Are most strictly looking for willing donors and if the majority of the population neither knows about nor believes in 'energy' then why would it matter whether they 'donate' unknowingly?-"

Ethics. Simple pure ethics. Vamps like to contend that being an "evolutionary jump", they have to act and behold with some dignity and honour. Also, how the community sees this has brought feeding on unwilling donors a mighty frowned upon action. Though it is alittle contradictory as well... It's bad to feed off a single human, but in a crowd of them, who cares?


"-The other half of the question has to do with the effects of not 'feeding'. I'm fairly certain (though not positive) that there is no long term physical effect of not feeding (like starvation or malnourishment) so that would point to the process as less of a necessity and more of a drug (like alcohol, cigarettes or actual illicit drugs) wherein one feeds for the feeling it gives and not because it actually sustains the body. That would also imply that energy vampirism is an addiction.-"

While I cannot give definitive evidence on the long term physical manifestation of energy starvation, I can offer this much. A person can affect their surroundings, people are far more easier to manipulate then say, a brick wall with your mind. In starving yourself of your "addiction", you not only feed without control, you also become a right pain in the buttocks.

Creating a rift between yourself and your friends, family etc. Most vamps love their support networks and don't want to sevre them because of their inability to feed. Hence why they feed - To Be Happy like an addict.

- Vixen.

Vixen - it would appear then that while you acknowledge the ethics of donor feeding, you don't feel any particular requirement to follow them and you acknowledge the double logic in feeding off of one knowing donor as opposed to an unknowing crowd. It would appear that the ethics are in place more for the comfort of the vampire (to feel less criminal in the feeding) as opposed to social ethics that have real benefit or reasoning. Personal ethics for personal benefit.

Without being overly argumentative with anyone, it would appear that if the ethics are in place simply to make the vampire feel better about what he's doing, and don't actually serve any real purpose or benefit for the greater good...then these ethics are as selfish as the act itself...especially so since the ethics are meant to excuse the act.

In drug use, an addict will create any number of ethical reasons as to why their own addiction is ok if it is done responsibly or doesn't overtly harm anyone. Reasons are given (mind expansion, safe relaxation amongst friends who don't mind). Rules and guidelines are created in order to give a sense of responsibility. In the long run though the addict is just trying to rationalize the fact that he is addicted and really just wants his/her fix.

I don't know if energy vamirism is an addiction. It appears to have much in common with addiction. That isn't meant as an insult to vampires or as an insult to addicts. I simply like to call things as I see them.

Dark Greeting's, I hope this isn't what you don't want, but it is how I explain mine.First I need both energy and blood.I need the blood more,as I have been in a coma from not feeding.My liver and Kidney's almost shut down,the medical report said there was no medical reason for my condition,a Dr gave me blood and I came out of it within 2 day's.The Energy the same happens on a smaller scale,I can tell the difference. I do what I have to although I never take to much from any one person and if possible I go where are lot's of people in high energy and pull from them all.So I Know I need to feed or I do have problems/w my health So for me it is necessary to do.
Dark Blessing's,
KA

Dark Greeting's,I forgot to add I have been addicted to thing's before,this need isn't an addiction,If any want to know what those addiction's were message me.They are not me now.
Dark Blessing's,
KA

I do believe that ethics have a huge role in all "feeding" problem... because stealing the ehergy without giving something back is not nice.
But, to a more general view, I think that those who want the energy just because it is like a drug to them and they can't control the energy they produce or have, ethics has no importance...
Those who take energy unconscious and they constantly lack energy because they cannot produce it or it is a malfunction in their body which causes energy loss cannot be accused of acting unethical...for them energy is like air... but in the same time, I don't think they will ever be in danger of loosing all their ebergy and die...in the same time, does anyone want to bet on that??? So I guess for them is both dependancy and feeding...
And there are those who only take energy to boost themselves for a short term ,to gain a little extra in order to acomplish something in a short term or they used a lot of their energy for the same purpose and need it back shortly...those usually inform their donors about that and are given or let to take the energy value they need...this is a situation of just pure feeding, i think.

KAOOOO - you mean a doctor gave you blood to drink? Or a transfusion?

Ahriman - You're saying that the more control you have over your energy and how you feed, the greater responsibility you feel you have towards who you feed from ?

@Felix: In a way, yes; but also I am saying that you shouldn't take the energy if you don't really need it and that by controlling your energy better you should feel less the need to feed...I am also saying that those who really need the energy to maintain a normal life shouldn't be ashamed by taking it as long as it isn't a total drainage of the donor, but ashamed should feel those who steal the energy just for fun or because they "think" they lack energy when they could have all the energy they want just by a better control of the energy they create....

it matters not what you call us or it. all creatures need energy of one form or another to survive. weither the energy comes from the sun, human via blood or emotion, or plants and animals, energy is energy and we all need it to live.

I think its a want. I have noticed myself that whenever at a gathering, I can keep going while others tire out. But there are other times like when I'm by myself, I can stay up all nite either reading, watching my fav. vampire movie, etc.

I have never come across this phenomenon, except maybe when I have felt drained after being near someone else.

I dunno, as far as Im concerned the jury is out for me... I need more convincing (sorry, just being honest)

I am a energy sucker more than a blood drinker so I would have to say that sometimes it is a need when feeling very weak but also it can be a desire. It depends on the mood at the time and the strength. It is not an addiction as a blood drinker though.

Felix,

I get what you are saying, but in reponse, I'd like to take the literal path of pointing out that we are all energy beings, even in physicality, it is only a frequency of resonance which allows us to remain bound into one form, which can touch and perceive other 'things' on the same wavelength.

So it could be said that Energy is a need, since it is the basic structure of our form and this shell we call flesh.

And the flesh is merely that, a husk that lasts a lifetime, but not an eternity as the soul might.

In order to maintain the eternal form, the eenrgy is a neccessity, since in non-corporeal form, we have no physical needs, though I suspect that we do have wants.

Stabb - so you are saying that because all beings need energy, energy vampirism is a need? I disagree. The possibility is that the enough energy is sustained for survival without feeding since I've only heard of one unsubstantiated story of a 'non-feeding coma'. It is likely you will survive without harm if you don't feed. Therefore, any energy you gain from feeding seems more for a level of comfort much the same way that a person who is hungry is not necessarily dying of starvation but would like to be full to their comfort. To use your words, "an equivalent ability to enjoy life." Perhaps the energy vampire simply has a larger appetite than most humans. That does not necessarily make indulging the appetite healthy recourse.

energy.. for most people they wish they had more.. but most that have it it is addictive.

Stabb - you bring up a valid hypothesis, but then if that is true, then a vampire is nothing more than a broken soul in need of repair or 'realigning' and feeding isn't fixing the problem so much as satisfying a symptom.

In fact, that hypothesis would further align it with a situation where someone was born with a genetic disposition to addiction through a chemical deficiency whereby they use an illicit drug or a prescribed drug in order to 'feel whole'.

Manic depressives are prescribed medication in order to feel better...but quite often, if undiagnosed, a manic depressive will turn to illicit drugs or alcohol in order to 'feel whole' but with harmful side effects. So then the question begs...whose to say whether 'feeding' is the benevolent prescription or the harmful stop gap measure of the undiagnosed.

My first point would have to be from what I have gathered there are some unsavoury effects to being fed upon so to feed from an unwilling donor regardless of whether they are aware or not would be causing a negative effect on that person in question, as was stated before it would come down to your personal views and morals on causing harm to another however slight. On the flip side drawing energy from a person or other substance is a natural occurrence and some people may suffer side effects where others do not maybe due to poor physical health etc, so what may harm one may not another you wouldn’t know until the transfer has been done. Where do you draw the line at taking energy from though? I mean if your donor is supplying you with energy you must consider where did they get there energy source from? A cow, pig sheep or vegetable it’s circular in that effect, the natural progression of energy transference so why construe it as being wrong just because it is taken from a human?

The second point to put simply is that if a vampire can survive and be healthy without feeding from a persons energy then it’s a case of want and possibly addiction to the buzz but not a need.

I'm an American vamp ;)
I'm addicted, I want it and Neeeed it.

i know of my friends and my self if i dont feed on blood i usualy cut my self as do they to just have the taste of blood i wonder if this helps you in your problem?

Its a usually a need other wise you wouldnt take it unless your are real ass.

All addictions are a need are they not?

Addiction to anything can be harmfil & dangerous.

But even though vampyres can have the usual addictions that mortals also succumb to personally i do not believe that as a vampyre that creates any extra possible addictions for me.......

Except this site !! Cackle

in my experance as a Psi vampire to me its a need. Its not like a cig where you need it every day or so but it is addicting. We do take the energy of people with or wihtout thier knowing although it smore ritualistic if they know. I also seem to get more energy form a direct feeding, meaning I drink drink thier blood while its still flowing.

To me the energy is a need. My brain cannot produce enough of a substace called serothin, so I need energy from an outside source.

But it is not only human energy you need to feed on, it can also be the natural energy from water or the sun, or a charm.

There are so many forms of energy and you cannot say one is better than the others. If you want human energy only, I would call it more of an addiction than an actual need.

In the type of vampire I am, it is crucial to life. If you neglect to feed, you will eventually die.
I myslef have gotten sick and a few times came close to dying.
Several things restrict my feeding.
I have no real desire to feed off of anyone who can be harmed by it. I normally feed off of other vampire's energy, since they can get it back if the loss is too much.
When I was young I fed off of everything.
I also could not control my feeding. The power would drain when it could to where I felt like Rogue from the x-men, unable to touch others for fear of hurting them.
It also is harder to feed during the day. The moon seems to rule that power.

I feed for so long without realizing what I was doing. I mean they enjoyed it too. But now that I realize what has been happening all this time to all these people that I've fed from, I can't see it as unethical to do so to someone who doesn't know what you are doing. I mean, you ever try to explain that to a new source when its happening and you just met. Besides, I dont have to touch to get it. But the longer I don't touch the more ravenous I get for the strength of a direct feed.

I think energy is all of them We need energy to survive and wants we have it we want more and we can become adictive