The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

It could be possible. It seems that the results correlated to something having to do with personal information. I've personally never heard of this before reading your post, but I find it both interesting, and fun to think about.

I think that its fiction and the tests that happened was just strikes of luck.

what it sounds like to me is basically photographic memory, unless i missed something

i personally used to be able to tell a person what location book, page, paragraph, etc to something in what used to be my BOS...... or even in any other book i owed

i always knew where i put thing too....

my grammer sucks, i do apologize.....i missed a comma and an "s".... lol

After reading the numbers of how many failed compared to the ones that actually worked out...I am going to say that it was most likely coincidental.

Fiction

How would the medium be able to point out a passage in any book that would mean something to the sitter though?

There's really no way that they would know what would hold personal meaning or not.

If it did work, would it matter who the medium contacted to tell of a passage? A no-name spirit would really know what the sitter wanted to hear or read for that matter, now would it?

And please people, remember to say more then just "fact" or "fiction."

I'm sure dominars will catch those in time.

But explain your dang answers! Okay?

yeah I guess you're right, I just have a hard time believing in all of this paranormal stuff no matter how much it interests me. But how do you account for all of the book tests that failed?

There could be a lot of circumstances that could be held accountable for it.

Maybe they got into contact with a different spirit?

Wouldn't that change the results a lot?

So how would that even be controlled or could it?

I don't think it could be controlled or even monitored. I think it would have to be faith based. Maybe someone could do tests to see if the medium's energy or brain waves change. But that's it.

And how could you judge if the sitter isn't lying because they're unnerved? I know if someone told me a passage in a book that meant something to me, I would be freaked out and probably claim to that person that it didn't... then later on I would probably contact them with the truth.

But the initial response would be to deny it and I know I'm not the only one who would.

I think it is just coincidence. A stroke of luck. But I could be wrong. A photographic memory maybe.

How about if the medium never saw or read the book in question in their life?

How could that be explained?

And as I've pointed out, there wouldn't be any way for the medium to know what would mean something to the sitter in the successful cases.

I'm thinking if it's a valid test, then it would have to depend on how 'in tune' the medium was and also who was contacted from the other side.

I didn't think of it that way, but now that you mention it. If I was in that person's situation and someone from the dead mentioned a passage from a book that meant alot to me I would probably be so freaked out I'd deny it. And as far as the contacting a different spirit goes, how would they even know they're contacting the right or wrong spirit? What if the spirit they're trying to contact isn't around? Like I said in one of your other threads Direconsequences, I think it's entirely up to your belief system on whether or not you believe in these things. Some people probably fake it, but then again other's might be the real deal. I am sure there are tests that could monitor the psychics brain waves and even if the sitter's lying. Like a lie detector so when the psychic asks them about a certain book passage and they lie and say no, the psychic would know. But not many people would be willing to be hooked up to a lie detector in that situation, but it would help out alot when performing experiments to see if book tests are real or not.

It reminds me of Edgar Casey...who never read the book, but could sleep on it and tell you in the morning exactly what the book was about.

I say fact.

Did anyone ever see the movie Powder. It was suppose to be based on a true story. His mother passed at the time of his birth and his father took off. The boys mother had been struck by lightening while she was pregnant. This led to the child being hairless and losing all pigmentation to his skin. He was a very intelligent child. But his grandparents called him a freak and kept him locked in the basement. He never got the chance to go to school his grandmother taught him at home. They had thousands of books in his home and he read them all. When he was asked about any book in the house and given a page number he could quote that page of that book word for word. It was awesome.

yeah I have seen the movie, and it's a very good one. He didn't have the help of spirits though, he was said to be a higher evolutionary form of humans I think.

Under those circumstances, how would a lie detector operate?

If the person's nervous about the session taking place, it could possibly throw a lie detector off and I don't think the control questions could help figure it out at that point.

As for contacting the right or wrong spirit, I guess that all has to do with how the spirit is called upon. I'm not sure how that would work but of course, like the Ouija board, there could be a spirit or entity pretending to be someone or something else.

I've never seen the movie but it could be a possibility in the case of book tests.

But the question still stands, in the successful tests how would the medium know if it was meaningful or not to the sitter if they were trying to fake it?

I am not really sure about that one. I mean yeah like you said they could do the lie detector test, but how accurate are they really. And again as you stated I think being nervous or anxious would have an affect on the results.

Well sometimes (not with book tests) when a psychic is talking to someone, they try to lead them into certain questions...I can't explain this in a better way, they watch for their reactions and ask them questions that it's really not hard to guess the answers to. I don't know how the medium could possibly guess about the book test thing so maybe they would have to be a true psychic in order to do this, contact someone that was close to the sitter and find out about the passage that meant most to him or her.

With the lie detector thing, I didn't take into consideration that the person would already be nervous about the situation, so I guess there is no definite way to determine if he/she would be telling the truth.

Dire, calm down....

***Everyone who has been posting those shit answers deserve to be slapped with a loss of 5 posts. Dire is working her ass off to get this information. I, for one am happy to see some friggin effort around here. Not to mention some new material. I am stumped on these topics. If you are not going to post a reasonable response, don't post.

Thank You!


----


I myself can not explain how that could happens without ever seeing the book.... I would imagine that the person has some connection with the beyond much like the reader of runes or tarot for examples.

It's all just chance. Not real at all.

Well for one I dont think what I posted was a bullshit answer. Who are you to judge the opinions of others.

Hellhathwings, our posts were not shit, your's was. We're posting to actually try to discuss a topic, if dire is getting frustrated because we're not saying what she wants to hear it would be her job to point that out not yours. Don't criticize someone's posts when you your self have not made any effort in discussing the topic.

He wasn't talking to you Morbid and MiserableAtBest. I liked your answers, and you're one of the members that are thinking outside the box on my threads.

I thank you for that one!

He's talking about people coming in just to post "fiction" or "I believe it to be true" and not explaining why they think one way or another.

_______________________________________

As for the book tests, couldn't the medium lead the sitter into the answer too?

There could be so many ways to complicate the book tests that it isn't even funny. The person doing the lie detector test could influence the results.

And I think the more people around, the more nervous the sitter and medium are both going to become.

Sorry I jumped to conclusions dire.

Several messages of this kind have been given by mediums at my Church.

The object of the exercsie was to give evidence of life after death....which to many is a pretty big thing.

what i was talking about was the answers such as the one by - lostinpa..... the only thing said was "fiction"

that is a bullshit answer

miserable and morbid... that was not directed to you

Ok thank you for clarifying that, I do find this a very interesting topic and plan on researching it some.

what happened to the footer, it has become a part of the thread? does anyone see it......???

Well my first response I didn't really believe it could happen but from reading other responses after mine it got me to thinking that it could maybe happen.

I think that a medium cannot contact every spirit it tries to connect with. So maybe the spirits contacted with the failed tests had already moved on and didn't want to be bothered?

But then again everything could be chance.

I agree with all of you and I disagree with all of you. Yes, some cases are true and some are false, but the proving method is the tricky part. How do you prove something that is almost entirely subjective? I mean yeah, you could use a polygraph, but they are not always right, which is why the results are not allowed to be used in court. But what if the message of the test wasn't understood at first, haven't you ever been in a class and the teacher said something and you didn't understand it until you were somewhere else doing something else and it just hits you like a ton of bricks. You are looking at that possibility. Then again we are talking about spirits that have some concept of the future and can have limited vision of the future, what if the test gives a message to the sitter for the future, we see this all the time in dreams if you pay attention. Unfortunately we do not have the technology right now to test if something is true if it has millions upon millions of variables.

The only thing that may help is the spirit cameras. They may show something, they may not, depends on if the spirit is in possession or if it is simple hand control, and then again I don't trust the nature of a spirit camera, they are generally more fallible the the polygraph.

Like a warning? Yeah, it would be very possible. But that's another circumstance.

How would it be determined to effect that book test?

Would it be considered a successful case or not?

Also would the sitter even realize what the passage meant when the time came for the event to happen? That's another circumstance there.

Another thing that I'm wondering is how did all the people faking to do book tests for people when the Spiritualist community got big effect the movement? That's another thing that interest me about this topic. The failures and frauds being exposed had to have some effect on all the people.

I think it would have made people more self-conscious about saying whether or not the test was right.

well sweetie i wish i new the answer but i don't.
i can how ever give you my thoughts on the topic.
i realy think there is life after death.acrording to my aunty bless her heart she is no longer with us but she tpld me a few years before she died.that when she died once on the operating table that she saw a brite light at the end of a dark tonal she heard these words its not your time yet you must go back to your famaily.when she told me this story i got chills.

well to be exact it's mostly true and quite possible. Maybe the failed predictions was because it was directed to the wrong person who's to say really. Also on average most people are dishonost and will say it was wrong. Tho i know little of these i hear pf those doing some studies on this if i should hear anything about it from them i'll be sure to inform you.

Fakes abound in every area of our lives.

On one hand they cause alot of damage, but on the other hand can act as a catalyst.

I personally think it's a good thing that we are made to think for ourslelves rather than believe without question.

Mediums need to be able to explain misses as well as hits.. they are crafty at both, a hit is "proof" a miss is a vaguely dismissed. They learn from both, if a fifty fifty inquiry is answered negative relation then the other likely hood is more likely to be correct.

As a Bibliogeist myself, I find a personal reference in many books,
Metaphor and a skilled interpatation of metaphor, is potentially a foundation for cold reading.. Even the sly question, how is that relavent to you, asked by the performer.. is likely to be answered and then the answer is used earlier in the session. Reading through your loved ones book collection and noting the collection is a study and reminice of your deceased family or loved one, I wish I could have had all my grandmas art, and my granpas library. This is a popular practice in radical churches as well, I should mention. The bible is "randomly" related as well.

It shows the process of interpitation, if the reading was done before they read the passage example" When you find the passage it will relate to this matter, or issue" then it would be a phenominal occurence, yet people that are desperate will extrapulate on the vaguer of the performer. finding a book mark in the collection of a deceased person that is special.. reading the journal of a loved one instead of going to some third party person for instructions that lead to some vague "telling", no thanks, So encourage those you love to write.

I know people would want the book tests to mean something to them nowadays. They would go to great lengths to explain what it means to them, whether or not it actually meant something to them.

I've seen that multiple times with tarot readings, feathers, and sometimes Ouija boards.

If someone wants to believe something badly enough, then they will.

If a medium that's a fake wants to believe they have 'powers' then odds are that it'll appear that way. They can't seem to let their image be altered. They have to have it.

But how would you go about proving someone is a fraud that is doing book tests?

Well I mean, if the "medium" tries to do several book tests in a rowe and all turn out wrong that would be a pretty convincing way to determine if he or she was a fake or not, but then again the medium could always claim that they didn't get into contact with the right spirit.

Give them a false base for your visit, act the widow, if the person knows you, then prompt a person they do not know to deliver a scripted personalality, and fictiuos deceased or problem they seek a "reading" to find insight, A woman made a whole myspace site about a fictional death of her "husband and son" then went to a pliminary reading, had an intake reading, and was invited back, the second visit the medium went to the bait. Started relating messages from her husband and son. To be nonresponsive and reply without agreeing or disagreeing is also a thrort to cold readers. Interupting with tangents, pushing for clearity, and referring back to misses is also good.

I've done that before a while back with a couple of people who claimed to do tarot card readings. It was interesting to do. They weren't even close to my life, I guess you would call it, pattern (Meaning my past and my present or my future for that matter). They ended up dismissing the whole session as one built on false pretenses. I forget all the questions they asked me before it started but it's like they were fishing. It was interesting.

But on book tests, could a passage really mean anything?

I know I want to have contact with my dad but I don't think I'm that desperate to have it. I know there's certain books my dad had read (he stopped going to school when he got out of sixth grade and later got his GED). So the book would really have to be select for it to work for me, especially if it was supposed to be a message from my daddy.

So how would a medium who isn't 'in tune' handle my situation if they could?

Stick to the older classics and hope to hit gold?

How many of your father friends do you know. did your dad do art? any hobbies. Artifacts are also things that mediums claim to use to "bring people across, the reason is they know the focus such things bring.. anybody who has an active memory can pick the things that seemed to be important items to a loved one, each one is a piece of a collective memory.. seeing what he bought for others is a good "hidden gem" as well A common practice of lonly heart scammers is to dig through garbages to find gift receipts and buy similiar things to wear or assesorize with. Being with items is a big prompt for sentimental recollection. To frequent his former "haunts" if possible. is likely to sync you with his lingering presence.

That would be most of the fun part though! My dad was disable and couldn't do much. After I turned about 14 he could barely read because of cataracts on both his eyes. He didn't have many friends after I was born because he didn't want them around me. I've only met one of my dad's friends and that was at a bingo game.

That's what I'm saying... how would a fake medium be able to do it with me?

Would it have to be one that was for real?

A friend that knows you as you grew up, a friend that you shared about your father, I know you still have questions, and mediums are of no help. Was his death sudden? did he have a care taker.. Did he have books on tape? What type of work did he do? sometimes you can watch a person employeed in a shared job and learn the foundation of a blue collar worker, a real medium, is someone who will go through a list simuliar to what I have done so far. To claim to communicate with the dead, was not the original idea, that came from those that where side tracked (hi-jacked) by the claim of the Fox Sisters. The original spiritualist where to guide a persons grieving process, teaching them to dig in the right areas for mementos, to search for friends that posses trace memories. Sadly all that suffered in the sensational explosion of fakery. I hope that something comes for you however subtle it is I am sure you will know it when it is so.

Nice!

So their purpose was not only to try to prove that life existed after death but to help people, especially friends, through the grieving process.

I can't help but think how much a passage in a book would mean to someone who was having troubles coping with someone's death, especially one that was sudden or violent. They would struggle to find some meaning in it just to feel better and to gain hope back.

dabbler ... strikes again...... holy shit.....

i am so friggin confused it is unbelievable...thank you Dire for stumping me

and dabbler needs a hooby, can we sell him on eBay....

When I am in the mood, I do at times open a random book and point at a page, then look at the passage or paragraph...Just to gain a philisophical insight about my thoughts. Nothing major or divining in my opinion though.

I am open minded but I do think at times it is luck, but to the certain people who find meaning in the chosen passage, well for them it may seem to be more than luck ofcourse. To each their own perspective.

I haven't heard of anymore studies to be honest.

I don't think there's away to make the texts not marked by the mediums own personal influence cause there'd noway to prove if it was, one way or another.

If this could possibly work, genuinly work, I don't know that it prove anything significant, other thanif you really harbor your inner most powers of your mind & spirit and pull from deep within, anything can happen.

Typo in my last post, ***I meant tests marked...***

I had not heard of this before and thanks for starting a post about it. Now I have to go for the hoax opinion on this one. The odds are too close to random to convince me. Also I assume that they are using the books at the home of the person the message is for. Since most people do not own nor display books that they have no interest in the chance of something meaningful increases. If you were to try the test at a library or some place with a random collection of books and got the same results then I might be more inclined to believe that it is a true message. Just my 2 cents :)

soulshroude....
if i remember correct that is considered divination

now i have to dig in my archives on hard drive number 2


if i do not find it i will not post regarding that

Actually soulshroude and hellhathwings that is a form of divintation known as bibliomancy. Someone asks a question, closes his eyes, opens a book at random and places his finger on a sentence. The sentence or paragraph in question is taken as either an answer to the question or some sort of commentary on the question.

So the interpitation is as valid as the passage.. good summery Miserable.

Thanks, but I honestly don't believe this would is one of the better forms of divination, but then again it depends on what book you use and how you would interpret(sp?) things.

When a hack medium seeks to prepare for a reading they are likely to snoop into the persons life, between the first and following reading playing detective to the person, and even their family.. these tidbits of info used along with cold reading, and interpitation can be very convincing
to a non grieving person, even more so to a grieving person, if people like Chris Angel do these things people are still awed.. so the question is, people that go to mediums, are they going to be awed out of their grief?

I think not, they are going for the prompts to their memories of their loved one, or for guidance through romantic crisis, or seeking financial stablization. These types of things are not limited to religious and occult areas, their are those that do financial and mail order brides as well.

So one would suggest that playing detective, and investigating your loved one is likely to find the same gems of sentimental aids to recollection.. perhaps in that still clear revelation moment.. one can relate even to the point of sensing the presence of your loved one, or find the "lynce pin" in a tangled romantic situation.

There are pass life regressionalist.. (not to be confused with past life regressionist) that can provide guidance in "sorting through" cluttered memories, or even blocked memories, some of which blocked good memories as well as pleasant valuable memories. Always something to consider in complicated quest to find closer in a close persons passing.