Inspired by a recent conversation with Daermon i decided to post a question.
Define divinity:
If we are made in god's image then who or what is god, and is there really a god. What proof have we been given that any god exists?
What can bring you closer to divinity? What is divinity and how do we achieve it?
What is your opinion?
~*~Blackrose~*~
Kissed by the Rose
yes, yes you did. but i shall put my responce anyway. =x
this is my story on what i beleave. it all started one day when i started to think really deep....
So, I felt very obtuse, because I started thinking that every thing I operated on was based upon what I believed god was telling me to do. But that could be my intuition or what ever, but I always assumed, I assumed that the voice I hear is the voice of god. Then I started thinking, what if I’m insane? So I’m operating on the promises that I’m hearing the voice of god, or what I perceive god to be speaking to me or through me, but maybe I’m completely insane. So all my pat demagogy in that me thinking that my life has importance, and my thought of it on the fact that I believe I’m following my intuition. Which in it self may be completely false, so then I started freaking out. And in the end there’s this totally insane creature that believes he is acting upon heavenly intuition, but mean while, he’s totally ramp it. So then I started thinking, maybe this is the cause of all the negativity. So I try thinking for my self, trying to cure my madness. And upon doing so, I realized that…that… that I’m better off with out him, the voice of god, speaking through me and or to me. I found that I was in fact insane, and for a brief moment, in my insanity, I was addicted. Addicted to this feeling of supposedly serving gods word, and his will. Which in it self was the cause of the madness, and the delusions of my thinking that my life had importance. It was me doing, saying, believing, and acting as if it was the voice of god. This was, upon thinking for my self that I discovered in that moment of brief solitude, the reason I was addicted. Addicted to his voice, that was being believed to have been projected from some where beyond and unimaginative. Being addicted to the thought that I was mint to do something with my life, the feeling that my life had importance. And upon having these feelings that I spared my life, my thought of being able to hear the voice of god, which in it self was a manifestation of a part of me. A part of me that saved my life, but also is the reason for my insanity. So, it’s a never ending cycle, of obeying a part or extension of my self that believes it self to be so great that it acts as if a god to convince it self to stay alive. A god, creator of all living things, that lives inside me, that I made, keeps me a live. So in a since, I created a god in my self to speak through me, and to instill a since of self worth, to keep my self a live. For to live life is to live for god, which is ultimately my self.
"All religions of a spiritual nature are inventions of man. He has created an entire system of gods with nothing more than his brain. Just because he has an ego and cannot accept it, he has had to external it into some "great" spiritual device which he calls "god"."
"The Satanic bible" By:Anton Szandor LaVay
King, Zero, technically this is a separate question, so here's my two cents.
Divinity is just the state of being divine, or Godlike. Sometimes the word is used as a different name for God, in different religions.
Many religions believe man was made in God's image, but it is also obvious that God was made in man's image. We project into the Divine that we think is the Perfect ideal qualities we have or would strive for.
So trying to get closer to divinity is simply striving to reach a perceived goal of perfection. Some try to achieve this my mirroring in their lives what their book of faith says their god is like. Some achieve this by trying to follow the set of laws they believe their god passed down. Others still try to get closer to the divine by following their own rules.
To answer your other question, who or what is God, I will suggest you read King's thread on God, as quite a few people, including myself, has added our points of view. But you asked one specific diferent question that I will note here.
Is there really a god? What proof have we been given that any god exists? This is a question of Belief and Faith. We have no proof that God exists, unless you believe that a god, deity, divine spirit of some kind, created some part of the Universe we live in. It's easy to understand how a species who makes things would believe that everything that they didn't create was created by something else. But as we have no "proof", as how would you go about "proving" this -- what, you need a signature, or an instruction manual -- we can only have Faith in the gods we choose to recognize. This in turn keeps them "alive".
I will paraphrase the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy to prove the Non-existence of God.
"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for Proof denies Faith, and without Faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "Life, the Universe, and Everything in it proves that you exist, and so therefore, by your statement, you don't. Q.E.D."
"Oh dear, I hadn't thought of that," said God, who promptly vanished in a puff of Logic.
We can debate what constitutes proof of God. I personally will not accept, "Because the Bible/Torah/Koran/Bhagavad-Gita/Your-Book-Of-Faith-Here tells me so". All any of those books, as fine and powerful those works truly are, all they can ever do is tell us stories about the experiences of those people who wrote them. They suggest a way of life they lived in order to please or reach divinity.
Finally, there is one more definition of "divinity", and that is as the common name for a fluffy, white, sweet fudge-like candy that is often eaten around the holidays. Here's my favorite recipe for making divinity.
Simple Divinity Recipe
INGREDIENTS:
5 cups white sugar
1 cup light corn syrup
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 cup water
4 egg whites
2 teaspoons vanilla extract
DIRECTIONS:
In a 2-quart saucepan, combine sugar, corn syrup, salt, and water. Cook to hard-ball stage (260 degrees F, or 125 degrees C), stirring only until sugar dissolves.
Meanwhile, beat egg whites to stiff peaks. Gradually pour syrup over egg whites, beating at high speed on electric mixer. Add vanilla and beat until candy holds its shape, about 4-5 minutes. Quickly drop from a teaspoon onto wax paper; cool.
Makes 8 servings
Rev. (and Chef) Daniel, the Elder Lurker
Hmm, interesting subject Rose.. I'll put my two cents worth in later.
I see divinity through beauty. I see beauty in seventh day adventists, who love a stranger enough that they sacrifice their precious time to show the truth to them. I see beauty in the art and idols of the catholic church. I see beauty in the bible. I see beauty in the massed choirs of the mormon church. All this beauty is guided by divinity.
Funnily enough I see no merit in wiccan because it's plain fuckin' ugly.
Thank you to all of you for posting, but i must say ElderDaniel you have put everything so simply and so clearly i think you have answered a lot of my questions in a logical way which i can relate to. Thank you
~*~Blackrose~*~
Kissed by the Rose
King`Tarquin: As the Forum grows, you can't expect newer members to read every past thread before posting. I haven't even caught up on all the old threads.....
Well, Miz, I shall take up from your post to continue with Wicca instead of the Judeo-Christian religions you listed (the examplesin which you found beauty move me as well, so here's to hopefully a deeper understanding of Wicca for you) ...
I see divinity/beauty in a grove of trees, their great boles dappled with sunlight, the strength of their years on this earth and their quiet power breathing into the wind.
I see divinity/beauty in the energy nimbus surrounding every living thing be it man, corn, toad or sleek horses running wild.
I see divinity/beauty in the censer's smoke marking the four directions of the compass, swirling in the air, and in the clear reflections on the surface of a chalice's water, while candle light sparkles on the reflected blade of a ceremonial atheme.
I see divinity/beauty in the following devotion:
Mother and Father of all living things,
unto my being your golden love bring.
Bless this seed to fulfill its design
of leaf and fruit, of blossom and vine.
I see the divinity in the search for divinity.
*snuggles Req while bapping miz*
Christianity is worship of a teacher. Wicca is the admiration of all that is.
Did I mention I'm -horribly drunk, too?
No, don't bap miz, miss tipsy Nara.
But do snuggle me. :D
I don't think it is a fair summation to say Christianity is worship of a teacher. Christianity is the study and fulfillment of the teachings of God-incarnate (as viewed by Christian followers), Jesus.
It just so happens the teacher was God. However, Christianity does not worship its other teachers, such as Paul.
Good post.
I am in agreement with Elder daniel on this, he put it better than I could have.
And Cancer brings up a good point about the teachers.
Erm just a point you all those early fossil's of human skull's from when man was first here (thick forehead, large nose e.t.c) then god musta been an ugly S.O.B but if you look at us now that support's the theory of evolution dunnit? anyway thats my 2 quids in anyway
time for some background on the conversation that brought up her question.
everything occurs in circles.....
even down to atomic levels things are build ups of spheres....
so in essence is god perhaps not just a spheroid entity?...and us being in his image a reference to the cellular stucture of all things?
I was in a rambling and chaotic mental mood at the time.....and thoughts tend to jump around a lot then...
but her question here is not really what is god....but how can we acheive divinity?
I feel we achieve divinity by simply following our hearts and intuitions....we have intuition for a reason....and when follows will rarely lead you wrong.
Divinity is achieved through the purging of selfishness and the self-fulfillment of love. When every part of your being is consumed with love you are divine.
You witches come along, concoct a new belief which, to anyone sane, is irrational : a belief in the divinity of nature. It's just not enough : my existence must be more than a succession of moments perceived through the senses[1].
The witches credo - I feel therefore I am.
' I see divinity/beauty in a grove of trees,
' their great boles dappled with sunlight,
' the strength of their years on this earth and
' their quiet power breathing into the wind.
'
' I see divinity/beauty in the energy nimbus
' surrounding every living thing be it man, corn,
' toad or sleek horses running wild.
Very beautiful, but not very like nature. I don't believe in the beauty and innocence of nature, and certainly don't believe that natural man is virtuous!
' I see divinity/beauty in the following devotion:
'
' Mother and Father of all living things,
' unto my being your golden love bring.
' Bless this seed to fulfill its design
' of leaf and fruit, of blossom and vine.
I know that should evoke a gentle melancholy as a prelude to the enjoyment of natural beauty, but all it does is bring out the vampire (rushes out, seizes Req, kisses her first on the lips, then all over the face, like some thirsty animal lapping greedily at a spring of long-sought fresh water. Finally he kisses her on the neck, right on the throat, and keeps his lips there for a long time).
That felt good! and who knows how far my abandonment to sensation might take me. Sign me up as witch : if I can follow my natural instincts, I can bury my doubts about What I a questionable divinity nature is.
[1] yeah I know ob1, I stole your comment. Hey, what can I say - I'm a plagiarist.
I think that may have closed this thread :)
From what ive read being an Alchimest elder Daniel has my vote, It is what you make creator puts in you what you put in him. with the satanist thing from what I understand he hates us and it jarges my mind why I would act just like a christian(and the hardcore ones do) but devote my faith to an angel that vowes to drive us insane, if thats your belief. BRAIN FART!
I hate getting into this argument... But...
Satanism has absolutely NOTHING to do with Devil worship. If you have not read the Satanic Bible, you don't know what Satanism is, and you shouldn't make false statements about it.
Divinity is the feeling you get when you do a good deed towards others? ? any takers on that?
Holy gift, ungratefully received; I'm sorry Dee, it's taken almost a whole day to realise what a beautiful gift you gave me. This is a new sort of beauty that I can place and retain among my ideas of divinity.
xBlackRosex - As for your intended question (my apologies for misinterpreting your question, and my thanks to Daermon for clearing it up for me) of how do we achieve divinity, it goes along Cancer's line of reasoning, in my mind - after a fashion.
I believe there is a spark of divinity in everything and everyone. To actually manifest or have this divinity come to the fore, I think we need to rid ourselves of the sludge in which we become mired (the sludge being all of the detritus of emotion and experience and preconceptions that prevent us from loving every being with equal selfless regard - be they hypocrite, saint, unrepentant evil-doer, average schmaverage, what have you).
I am not suggesting that the actions of all need be embraced with that love, simply love the being, love the flicker of the divine in that other.
*****
I am not at all convinced I said this well; language is, at times, a very faulty tool for expressing esoteric ideas.
I was going by what someone told me that had studied the enoch, Like I said just a brain fart, I apalagise.