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I've noted that many people here claim to have seen ghosts. I started thinking about that and began to wonder; how can one "see" a ghost?

We see things when photons (particles of light) reflect off of the object and enter our eyes where they strike the rods and cones on our retinas, triggering an electro-chemical signal. But ghosts are said to be non-physical. So what is there to cause the photons to reflect? You can't bounce photons from non-physical things so how does one "see" a ghost?

Good question I have not claimed I have seen any other then what pictures i have posted in my portfolio.And I had a personal experience in which I mentioned what Might of been what I saw.And I have seen things out of the corner of my eye and most people have as well.A glimpse of a shadow the mind is constantly prossessing information but those who have seen ghost i am sure there is no scientific explanations to it.When I see something I find the source to what caused it mostly its because i wanted to see it.There for I saw it or heard it like mass hysteria.

I think its something to do with string theory, because there have been theories about hidden dimensions, that we can't touch and feel in anyway. Ghosts could be in a parallel dimension and will appear to people that are more conscious to sensing ghosts.

While there are certainly scientists who subscribe to one of the five versions of string theory, I believe most now look to M-theory or Super-string theory which requires eleven dimensions and which manages to encompass all five versions of string theory.

However, I don't quite see how that would enable anyone to see ghosts. You still have to bounce photons off of the ghost and into your eye or you're not going to see it. One's mental capacity can't play a role in that until the physical barriers are removed. It really doesn't matter what your mind can process. Unless you can get the signal to your mind, it's not going to be able to process anything.

The extra dimensions suggested by M-theory come into play only at the quantum level. And since a visible wavelength of light is Newtonian level rather than quantum, I don't see how anyone could see anything in an extra dimension which only comes into play at the quantum level.

And if we can bounce photons off of things in other dimensions, then those other dimensions are detectable at the Newtonian level, yet this is something never to have been demonstrated to be possible.

So I tend to agree with the first response in the thread; people see what they want to see, not necessarily because there is anything there to see. We all catch what we perceive to be movements out of he corner of our eye. It's perfectly understandable that we wouldn't understand what we saw because our vision is focused only for the field of view directly in front of our eyes. Move 30 or 40 degrees out of that field of vision and things start to blur. Isn't it more probable that people are seeing something but don't know what it is, and rather than seek rational answers, they simply jump to the conclusion that it was a ghost?

Think of it as sotof a charged gas.We wouldnt be able to see the aurora either if particles where not charged.

Never seen a ghost. Never had anything that goes bump in the night. Nothing except me that is. There is nothing in the night that isn't there in the day.

Never seen a ghost personally but have a few pics of things in shots that where not there before. distotion of figures or shadows, many i think is energy or a flash of something to see, yet I cannot claim others ideas of this.

WitchyPooh,

Can you tell us about some of the ways you think your spirit tells you he's there?

Oceanne,

bRe: "Think of it as sotof a charged gas.We wouldnt be able to see the aurora either if particles where not charged."

Okay; ionized particles. But we can utilize objective instruments to confirm the existence of ionized gas. That's something lacking for ghosts. We do have some kind of "anomaly" that infrequently appears in photographs. I'm not sure to what extent these anomalies have been objectively analyzed but I'm unaware of any testing which rules out contaminants in the silver-halide emulsion layer on the celluloid (assuming film rather than digital photography), or even the use of contaminated developer or fixative chemicals.

And as far as the charged particle idea goes, I still have to circle back to this idea that people are "seeing" these supposed ghosts. I've never seen any indication that the rods and/or cones in our eyes react to other than a certain range of frequencies in the electro-magnetic spectrum. These frequencies are characteristic of light waves, but not of any known charged particle. The rods in our eyes are sensitive enough to react to a strike from a single photon, yet no evidence exists that they react at all to the existence of charged particles, and if they did, the charged particles would have to emanate some kind of physical matter, energy or wave that actually penetrated the cornea and struck the retina. Yet again, there is no evidence of any such particle or wave. So are we not now circled back to our original problem?

I think ghosts have nothing to do with light bouncing of a ghost. If light waves bounced off ghosts, that means everybody would see ghosts all the time.

The ghost only appears to certain people that sense ghosts. Why is that?

I think the ghost emits its own energy.

cadrewolf,

Re: "Never seen a ghost personally but have a few pics of things in shots that where not there before. distotion of figures or shadows, many i think is energy or a flash of something to see, yet I cannot claim others ideas of this."

I see a lot of references to energy in many of these threads and it occurs to me that people suggest energy because they don't know what else to call the unconfirmable which is suggested to have characteristics decidedly unlike physical matter. My tendency is to remind people that there isn't anything mystical or non-physical about energy. Energy is simply another form of matter. It's measurable, predictable, confirmable. We can produce it, direct it and control it. (E = MC^2, AKA: Energy and matter are equivalents)

There also isn't anything mystical or unconfirmable about our eyes or how they work. They're physical organs and produce physical electrochemical signals which are interpreted by our physical brains. Yet I see people suggesting that these purely physical mechanisms are somehow detecting things that are often suggested to be purely non-physical. What is the implied mechanism?

The idea of a "flash of something to see" doesn't seem to take us far from the reality that our eyes detect photons which are either emitted from a source, or reflected from objects of mass. Do ghosts have mass? Do they produce photons? If they do produce photons, from where does the energy/matter come to produce these photons?

The sun produces photons as a by-produce of fusing hydrogen atoms into helium atoms. Are ghosts composed of hydrogen?

If we can see ghosts, then there has to be a stream of photons moving from the surface layer of the ghost (something ghosts are usually said not to have), to our eyes. How can we resolve the idea of ghosts being physical and capable of reflecting physical photons, and the idea that they're non-physical and somehow just appear to us without utilizing the mechanism through which our eyes function to produce sight?

I think the conclusions drawn are over-looking these questions and problems. It seems to go from "I thought maybe I saw something" to ""Wow! I just saw a ghost!" with no evaluative process utilized to link the first implication to the conclusion.

Is it not something like believing in Martian Porky Piglets and then everytime you think you saw something you can't confirm, proclaiming it was a Martian Porky Piglet?

.While yes,there are certiain parameters that the human vision is attuned to,Yet there are rare circumstances in which one can see invisible light of the spectrum,resulting in that we catch a glimps of the energy during a moment or red or blue shift.
Or perhaps for a moment,our brains hit a frequency that enable us to catch a glimps at Torsion wave(the dimension thing)..and it really wouldnt be a solid vision,but mererly a prosess that our brain goes through in attempt to commit the incident to memory we can comprehend.A blip so to speak.The other senses picking up the energy somehow and our brains processing it into image.
But Im with you in that most is due to imagination and desire.
However,I do feel that something is going on that we simply dont know how to document yet.And I would say its a bit like the whole ball lightning thing,we know its there,but rarely can we catch it on film.So I feel its An energy is there,kbut we cannot detect with intruments.Because we dont have the right instruments yet,not because it isnt there..I feel we will though in the near future.

"The sun produces photons as a by-produce of fusing hydrogen atoms into helium atoms. Are ghosts composed of hydrogen?"

Um well? You cant really say they arent.. A Hydrogen bonding of some kind perhaps ..

Ghosts are seen by sensitives. Sensitives are people that are more attuned to the psychic, mystical side of the world...and science can't touch the mystical side, because it's not physical, it's more psychological.
So you can't really effectively bring science into a paranormal discussion, 90% of the time...

Magic25UK,

Re: I have heard of massless particles, it's photons and neutrinos that is a energetic particle with no rest mass.

While it's true that there are both particles with mass and particles without mass, I'm missing how this solves the problem. If photons must strike the retina in the eyes before we can "see" an object, then what is it about a non-physical ghost that causes these physical photons to bounce off of a non-physical entity?

People like to proclaim that ghosts are from another realm, a parallel universe or an alternate frequency. But none of those assertions does anything to explain why photons in our realm at our frequency would be deflected by them so they could reach our eyes. And if photons don't travel from objects to our eyes, we can't see them.

Epik,

Re: Ghosts are seen by sensitives. Sensitives are people that are more attuned to the psychic, mystical side of the world...and science can't touch the mystical side, because it's not physical, it's more psychological.
So you can't really effectively bring science into a paranormal discussion, 90% of the time...

Well Epik; here's the fun part for me. When people claim to have "seen" a ghost, I'm not the one bringing science into the topic. They are. When you claim to have seen a non-physical entity with eyes which are a physical organ, operating on purely physical mechanisms, you're both bringing science into the assertion and ignoring science at the same time.

We know how eyes work. They require that photons strike the retina or you won't see anything. It's easy enough to test. Close your eyes or hold a flat-black barrier in front of your face. See anything beyond your eye-lids or the barrier?

So here's the question again. Since we know that our eyes are basically photon detectors and we know that in order for us to see anything, photons have to travel from the object we see to our eyes, how do you propose this is happening with a non-physical object like a ghost?

Remember, the assertions are on the side of those who claim to see ghost or claim that others have actually seen ghosts. I'm simply poining out that to do so is something like claiming that you detected the presence of a diamond using a gas-sniffer. It's clearly the wrong tool for the job and known mechanisms much be employed which are ruled out by the very claim being made.

So it doesn't help to proclaim that "sensitives" are more "in tune" to the mystical side. The problem is that they have physical eyes that operate on the same physical properties as my eyes, your eyes and everyone else's eyes. And the mechanisms by which they operate rule out seeing non-physical entities. You can't detect a diamond using a gas-sniffer even if you claim to be really in tune to diamonds because you're utilizing a tool that has no mechanism for detecting diamonds. So it's not about the brain being in tune or not being in tune. It's about the inability of physical eyes to detect something that doesn't reflect or refract photons.

Does that help you to understand the problem?

"And if photons don't travel from objects to our eyes, we can't see them."

Not entirely true.There are blind peeps who "see " due to processes of the brain that enable it to turn it into a metaphoric image.What if it is something happening along that line?

Oceanne,

Re: "Not entirely true.There are blind peeps who "see " due to processes of the brain that enable it to turn it into a metaphoric image.What if it is something happening along that line?"

Okay, point taken. Somehow the signal must get to the brain or originate in the brain as with electrical stimulation devices implanted in the visual cortex. So my comment over-stated the facts as you've demonstrated. Well done!

But that's not the kind of claim I'm seeing here. I'm seeing people telling me that they "see" ghosts. That they turn their eyes toward them and see them just like they'd see a person standing there. If that weren't the case, then they wouldn't have to bee looking at them or really even need to be anywhere within proximity. One can have images implanted in their brain which exist only as charged and uncharged capacitors on a silicon chip. I just don't think that's the kind of claim people are making when they claim to have "seen" a ghost. The kind of image they're suggesting requires that photons (or something else detectable by the retina), travel from the ghost to their eyes. And since most insist that ghosts are non-physical, this claim seems to refute itself because they're not taking the mechanisms of optical sight into account.

LOL I got lucky,thanks.
But in regards to the claims,I understand what you are saying and your argument is solid in that respect.
And Maybe thats the crux..perhaps they are in fact physical.??

Epik,

Re: "What if your eyes don't see the ghost? What if its something else entirely?"

Well, I'm afraid my best response is simply, if your eyes don't see the ghost then you're not "seeing" the ghost.

As for the "something else entirely", care to make some suggestions? What do you think it might be if it's not sight but is always described as such, requires the claimant to be looking at the proclaimed entity, with their eyes open and they're also "seeing" everything around where they perceive the entity to be?

Well what about dreaming? You don't see things with your eyes while you're dreaming, but there's still a very vivid picture there that you see.

Oceanne,

Re: "And Maybe thats the crux..perhaps they are in fact physical.??"

Well, that does open other doors but unless I'm overlooking something, I think those doors tend to slam shut just as quickly as they open.

If they're physical then we probably shouldn't be hearing claims that they walk right through doors, walls, vehicles and people. If they are physical and can do that, then I would suggest that the particles which make up their physical mass must be very small and very sparsely arranged. And if that's the case, I have serious doubts that the particles would be large enough to reflect light in the visible spectrum. If something is smaller than the tiniest wavelength of visible light (the blues), then it doesn't matter how much optical magnification you apply, you'll never see it because it's too small to reflect the light.

So if a particle is small enough to pass through seemingly solid mass, (like a neutrino), it does so because it's so tiny that it can slip between the relatively massive spaces between atoms or through the vast spaces between the nucleus and the orbiting electrons. In either case, I seriously don't think you're going to be able to reflect light off of such a substance.

Perhaps it happens when the body senses the thing via touch,yet doesnt process it correctly for one reason or another,thus an internal image is the result,being mistaken for an actual image.Or something along that line.

Einstein proved that energy is equivalent to mass, so if light had energy so it has mass, because energy is mass, because energy is a particle wave, which is a energetic photon particle.

Energy is not just from the sun, so energy is everywhere around us and in the universe. Every thing that happens in every day life is all to do with energy.
Humans have mass, but our soul has energy, and this is why spirits and ghosts have energy to pass through things. The spirit departs the body, so the soul has energy. Energy can't be destroyed, it is either converted into another form of energy. Spirits have their own form of energy and can be seen in the day and night.

The energy of a ghost would be electromagnetic energy, because its to with the energetic photon particle wave.
It has frequency which is the energy and the photon moves in a wave. All types of electromagnetic radiation is all the same aspect of the same particle, but with different frequencies.

I think a ghost emits it's own frequency and certain people have the sixth sense for picking up that energy of the ghost. People that see ghosts are more sensitive, and can sense the presence of the ghost. Ghosts seem to appear to people that are more consious.

I think some people have the sixth sense.

Oceanne,

Re: Perhaps it happens when the body senses the thing via touch,yet doesnt process it correctly for one reason or another,thus an internal image is the result,being mistaken for an actual image.Or something along that line.

Then we should see if anyone claims to have seen a ghost that wasn't within relatively close proximity or was farther away than they could reach, and perhaps interacting with objects at their remote location. If so, I think we can rule out the misplaced touch scenario. Of course if no one claims to have seen a ghost at other than touch-distances, then perhaps the idea has merit. The next step would be to postulate some possible reasons that the sense might be misplaced from touch to sight.

Magic25UK,

From what I see, the fact that energy and mass are two states of the same thing helps to refute all of these ideas. People tend to want to proclaim "energy" when something doesn't have mass (or any other credible evidence that it exists), yet they still want to insist that it does exist.

But energy, being purely physical, isn't hard to detect. Jumping to the conclusion that souls have energy first requires jumping to the conclusion that souls exist. And when one attempts to explore any concept by jumping from conclusion to conclusion rather than following the evidence to a conclusion, they tend to end up jumping all over the place with nothing to show for it at the end.

So let's start with the idea that ghosts have (or are), energy. If this is true, then it should be a simple thing to detect them. And yet, ghosts have been implied for thousands of years and we never seen to be able to detect them. We can detect lightning -- a form of energy. We can detect wind -- which carries energy and is caused by energy. We can detect thermal energy even in minute quantities. We can detect light energy.

So if ghosts are energy or produce energy, we should have no difficulty confirming their existence. And yet their existence remains as unconfirmed as the existence of spirits, souls, gods, angels and honest politicians.

True..but think about how one feels electromagnetic or microwaves(if this is what they are)...how far away does one have to be to feel them? The misplaced sight thing.Well we know that doses of both electromagnetic and microwave can cause dissorientations and side effects in different degrees.One of them being nausea..which many times has been reported during an encounter..

As for the "sixth sense" idea; all of our senses are due to the presence of sensory organs... real, physical, confirmable, sensory organs.

So where do you suppose the organs and structures responsible for this sixth sense have been hiding so that even surgeons and coroners have never found them?

Pareidolia, However this is not limited to seeing ghost, it accounts for UFO sightings, Miraculous appearances of the Virgin Mary (and even Elvis). This is why in my craft/hobby I know I only need a suggestion of an object to create the appearance of an apparition.

LOL I knew you wouldnt be able to resist this thread Dab..too funny

Or perhaps these things have to do more with frequency than anything else.And our "glimpses" of them is our bodies interpretation of that frequency .It results in an image..but in the minds eye.In a manner of speaking....

The sixth sense is in the brain, the sixth sense can detect the frequency emitted from the ghost, and the person perceives the image.

The person that sees ghosts probably has a gift called the sixth sense.

It most be the ghost that emits its own energy (Frequency)

"So where do you suppose the organs and structures responsible for this sixth sense have been hiding"

perhaps an unknown function of the pituritary? or hypothalamus?

I have found that with pictures, If a person is not coached on what they are looking at they will not see any ghost like images, yet if they are prepped , " See the ghosts image." They are more likely to see the ghost like image.

I also notice that few people take more then one photo of an area said to have an Orb, using two cameras. Video is easily altered (with over lays, I have seen and used projectors,, and glow sticks with scarves to create very believable ghost. Moving dim light, rippling light, shifting shadows.

Some will see ghost simply to "play along" with the hype of a hunt.

i have never seen a ghost but i have seen shadows shaped like humans but i think it was just my mind playing tricks on me... but on digital video and photos "ghost" are suppose to appear as orbs usually floating in the air but i presnt a good question

True Dab,very true.
Also,getting back to possible reasons that it happens..is perhaps when we come into contact with this "energy" for lack of better word right now,it triggers a flow of DMT,which causes us to experience a kind of "guided" hallucination..

I think the sixth sense is just a saying, for someone that has a psychic ability for sensing and seeing ghosts more then others.

Another thing is that its not just humans that see ghosts. Dogs and cats are more sensitive to ghosts then humans.

"orbs usually floating in the air but i presnt a good question"
In my book orbs have been debunked.There are many reason these things show up.

But as far as your mind playing trix when seeing shadows and whatnot..yes..it is called matrixing. This is the human mind's tendency to find familiar images in complex shapes, patterns or colors. IE faces and stuff.Which is more or less what we are refering to when speaking of misplaced imaging.

speaking of "matrixing" it is very common when looking in a mirror especially if it is one with gold or silver veins(decor mirror) Or one that has images on it when the light hits it.The mind plays on it all so happens if the mirror is dirty with a film from window cleaner :)

Perhaps animals are more tuned to us, when we drift our minds to ward a pleasent recollection then a cat will respond, with like affection, when my friend paused on his deceased sister, he noticed the cat noticing. I can imagine this working with Hostile recollections as well.

In feeling a ghost.. that would be .. I have to look that word up..

People look to ghost.. NPI.. for two things perhaps even three.. Sentiment, Entertainment (scared, and watching others scared), then Melevolent or Vengence ghost,( haunting the murder ).

What causes people to be looking in the direction of an apparition?

I am amused by the people that make a "ghost " video, or picture, and there is nothing that would explain why they took a picture of a random corner.

. It comes into play most often when people take photographs and spot something in the picture they are sure was not there when the photo was taken. Often, it is a face or figure and seems to be human.

Why Does Matrixing Happen?
One explanation is that recognizing other humans, and the faces of parents, is the first skill a baby learns. Pattern recognition of this sort is also a survival tool, giving the earliest humans a way to spot predators in hiding. The skill is so fundamental that, when presented with a random set of patterns the human brain attempts to make sense of what it sees. If it can possibly resolve that random pattern into a familiar object or image, it will.

Examples of Matrixing
The Face on Mars. This infamous picture seems to show the shape of a human face on the surface of Mars, but later pictures of the same area demonstrated that the image was the product of natural features and shadow.
Car design. The front of a car - the grill, headlights, and shape of the hood - often resemble a face. Designers pay attention to this, giving family cars a friendlier "face", and sports cars a more aggressive one.
The appearance of "holy" figures in surprising places. The images of Christ, the Virgin Mary or other figures of faith have appeared in locations as diverse as stained concrete, windows and food.
Shapes in clouds. Probably the most immediately familiar form of matrixing, anyone who has looked into the sky and thought "that cloud looks just like..." has experienced a form of harmless matrixing.
Rorschach ink blot tests. These depend on a sort of directed matrixing, with the person taking the test allowing their subconsciousness to make the ink shape suggest something, or form patterns.
Other Contributing Factors
Matrixing can be heightened by unfamiliar surroundings, poor lighting, and events being witnessed via peripheral vision. Of course, when hunting ghosts these are the situations an investigator encounters; it is equally true of witnesses, who are disadvantaged by being unaware of matrixing/paredoilia in the first place.
http://paranormal.suite101.com/article.cfm/what_is_matrixing

I am always seeking motive. What serves a person that claims to see an apparition? Facing the possibility of humiliation even. Having witnessed people being presented with projections, and their reaction, not only to the performance, but to the following account. I have learned to challenge peoples observation (without dismissing it), relative to their position. For example.. "Sue was behind Hank.. " so Once Hank confirms this, Sues account becomes Prime. So part of ghost hunting should be in studying who was where, and what where they doing. When I go on haunts I watch not for ghost.. but for things that have the potential to suggest an apparition.

Just once i would like to see a so called Para Normal investigator point out something that only appears to be a ghost.

Magic25UK,

Re: "I think the sixth sense is just a saying, for someone that has a psychic ability for sensing and seeing ghosts more then others."

I would agree that it's just a way to proclaim that someone has an ability that no one seems to be able to demonstrate that they actually have. It certainly seems to offer no indication that it's an actual sense, such as tasts, sight or touch.
---

Re: "Another thing is that its not just humans that see ghosts. Dogs and cats are more sensitive to ghosts then humans.

Do they?

I can't recall a cat or dog ever telling me they've seen a ghost or a spirit. Animals do tend to have a better sense of smell and hearing that people do. So sometimes they react to things of which we're unaware. They also tend to be less well informed about some of the things in their environment. I used to have a dog who was painfully obedient. He had apparently been abandoned by an abusive owner and found me out in the hills hiking one day. He was afraid to approach me so I sat down with my back to him and ignored him for a while until he finally gathered the courage to sneak up behind me and give me a few sniffs. After a minute or two he allowed me to pet him. Once I stood and started hiking again, he followed me and I headed home. I had him for the next ten years or so.

I mentioned all of that about his cowering demeanor because he never fully lost his fear that he would be beaten. He wouldn't chase a stick or a frisbee because those looked like weapons to him. If you picked up a stick to throw, you wouldn't see him for an hour or two. But when a thunderstorm moved in, he'd practically run over the top of you to get into the house (he was normally an outdoor dog). It didn't matter to him that you were telling him to stay outside. He was scared of all of the rumbling and crackling and would rather face the people he trusted than whatever that terrible noise was from outside. So we would let him come in when it thundered outside.

Did he know something we didn't?

I think all of this supposed ability to sense the paranormal that people proclaim of animals is mere hype. The animals aren't claiming they saw a ghost or sensed an entity. And they're remarkably easy to fool should one want to do so. Ever sneak up on a cat, tap it's tail and hiss? It's not nice, I admit but most of us have done something like this and they tend to jump no short distance when you do this.

I think the reality is that animals have a better sense of smell and a better sense of hearing than we do so they sometimes react to things we're oblivious to. At the same time, they don't possess any "psychic" ability or it wouldn't be so easy to fool them. Of course I'm just stating what the evidence shows, not what I want to think or what others want to think.

Can anyone explain why natural selection would select for an animal (either predator or prey), with a better sense of the paranormal?

Do ghosts eat dogs and cats?

Do cats and dogs eat ghosts?

How does sensing the presence of a ghost, in any way benefit a cat, dog, bear, wolf, tiger, cougar, deer or any other animal?

I had seen, what I thought to be, the Ghost of my Grandfather in his home. Whether it was a trick of the mind or real, it will always be in my memory. No scientific mumbo jumbo can change that! > Peace

VampyrPulse,

Changing the experience in your mind isn't the point. The point is to attempt to gain understanding of what is actually taking place. You've said that perhaps it was a trick of the mind or perhaps it was real. The point is to determine whether it was real or a trick.

As for the term "mumbo jumbo", it would seem to be far more appropriately applied to assertions that what you saw absolutely had to be the ghost of your grandfather. That's one possibility but it hasn't been confirmed. Science attempts to confirm concepts and doesn't accept or produce "mumbo jumbo". That's more the playing field of raw assertions of the unconfirmable.

So, with that in mind and assuming that it was the ghost of your grandfather; do you have any insight to add to how your eyes -- physical organs which amount to photon detectors -- could see something that is non-physical and therefore unable to produce or reflect photons?

I suppose, simply, the same way someone would see a projection on a screen or so. Nothing more.

and even how can people be scratched or bruised by ghost as well?

Beastt17

I did not say that cats and dogs see ghosts, I sadi that cats and dogs are more sensitive to ghosts.

My uncle had a dog years ago, and he lived in the flat and strange things would happen in his flat like banging and footstep on his stair case. One day he was in the room with his dog and a ghost was outside the room in the passage the room with them and his sensed the ghosts presence. The dog was growling and staring at his room door and then its hairs went up on its back and then all of a sudden there was lots of banging and footsteps on the stairway. My uncle could not open his door for about 1 minute and his dog growling at the door. The door opened and everything stopped and the dog had hid. The dog sensed the ghost being there in the passage way.

My lifes work has been with animals, and I will say I have seen this kindof behaviour many times.It is no secret that they are more sensitive than humans in many aspects, including barometric pressures and changes in Electromagnetics.But who is to say they are detecting ghosts? They also act odd when someone is about to have a seizure or die,so to me,this isnt really a sixth sense in a magical sense.

"and even how can people be scratched or bruised by ghost as well?"

Hate to say,but there have been many of these instances that have been debunked after careful investigation.
But this thread is an attempt to talk about possible reasons or circumstances that would maketheir exsistance plausible or even possible.Any ideas as to how they might be able to actually scratch or bruise someone?

Obscuration,

Re: "I suppose, simply, the same way someone would see a projection on a screen or so. Nothing more."

I can't help but suggest that perhaps you've missed the point being made. People can see a projection on a screen because the act of "projecting" is to cast a beam of light (photons), onto the screen which then reflect from the screen to the viewer's eyes. The screen can do this because it's physical.

Your eyes are little more than photon detectors. The retina at the back of your eye is covered with tiny receptors, some of which are called "rods" and the rest of which are called "cones". The rods react to all wavelengths of light in the visible spectrum, while the cones, because they are pigmented, react differently to some wavelengths than to others. The cones are what allows you to perceive colors while the rods produce only a luminance reaction.

So unless photons (particles of light), are reflecting off of an object and into your eye, you can't see it. The exception to this rule is when the object actually produces photons. An example of the latter would be the patterns, colors and shapes on your computer monitor.

With that in mind, how does one "see" a ghost when ghosts are routinely accepted to be purely non-physical? How many times have we heard the claim that someone "saw" a ghost walk right through a wall? They're telling us two things. They're saying that ghosts either reflect or emit light, suggesting that they're physical, and that they're not bound by physical laws, suggesting them to be non-physical. The statement appears to refute itself.

What we're trying to determine here is if there is a way for ghosts to reflect or emit light, while still being non-physical. And of course all of that assumes they actually exist.

Magic25UK,

Re: "I did not say that cats and dogs see ghosts, I sadi that cats and dogs are more sensitive to ghosts."

On a basis of pure accuracy, I'll have to give you that point. However, please note that you did insinuate that they see ghosts. Here is exactly what you said;

"Another thing is that its not just humans that see ghosts. Dogs and cats are more sensitive to ghosts then humans."

When you say that it's "not just humans that see ghosts, then go on to say that animals are more sensitive to ghosts than humans, the insinuation is fairly clear. The wording certainly insinuates that animals also see ghosts.

If you weren't suggesting that animals see ghosts, what were you eluding to with, "its not just humans that see ghosts"? Plants maybe?

All of that aside, have you ever had an animal suggest to you in any confirmable way that it has detected or sensed a ghost? We see animals react to things we don't sense. That's fairly clear. Oceanne has already mentioned some examples. Bats sense things in a manner we can't. They emit an audible signal (audible to them), and listen to the reflected acoustic returns to "see" in the dark. That's something we can't do. Dolphins utilize a very similar system of echolocation and they can even utilize this means to detect fish buried in the sand. Some evidence suggests they can even use this ability to detect tumors in other animals, such as people.

As already discussed, cats and dogs display a far greater sensitivity to sounds and odors than people do. But as for your assertion that they sense ghosts, I simply see no support for the claim. So I'll ask, do you have any?

Magic25UK,

As for the story concerning the dog sensing something in the hallway and reacting to it as well as the other unexplained anomalies, those are all bits of evidence. None of them are conclusive. Yet you conclude that it was a ghost because you want to believe that it was a ghost. In that it was never confirmed to be a ghost, this is just an assumption.

It's not terribly dissimilar to the idea that if someone dies after receiving a blood transfusion, that the blood donor is evil or infected by evil spirits. And indeed, prior to the development of the scientific method, this was the conclusion drawn by the majority in such cases. Of course we know today what they didn't know then -- that different people can have different blood-types. They were wrong and we should have expected them to be wrong because they weren't following evidence to a conclusion. Instead, they were adopting a conclusion, then attempting to fashion the evidence to fit. That appears to be exactly what you're doing with your "ghost in the hall" story.

One of the problems with jumping to such conclusions is that it gets in the way of learning and slows the process of discovering new knowledge by applying superstition rather than objectively drawn conclusions.

You know that the dog was reacting to something, you don't know what it was. You don't even know that the dog was correct in believing there was something in the hall, though there is additional evidence to suggest that something or someone was out there.

So how else can we explain the event? What if there was a person in the hall who didn't belong there? Suppose the dog heard his footsteps and reacted to them as might be expected. In a panic the human in the hall (or room, it's hard to tell from your post), grabbed the door knob and held it, preventing your uncle from opening the door. In an attempt to escape the building the subject caused a lot of noise which you refer to as "banging and footsteps on the stairway". His dog was frightened and hid.

What's so strange about that? Why assume it was a ghost when there's nothing about the story that indicates that it was other than a person?

Beast

It was not a brake in, because my uncle experienced this activity more then once, and my other relatives.
They moved out the house, because of this activity.

In 1987
My other uncle called Barry had slept in the attic one night at the top of the hallway, and nobody told him about the activity that went on in the house. So my aunt and uncle let him stay for the night in the attic, because it was late and he did not want to go back home. In the middle of the night the glass door in the hallway banged and my uncle Barry ran the down the stairs really panicing and he was white as sheet. He heard the ghost slam the glass door where he was sleeping and when he got up, he saw a figure of the ghost right next to him and he felt cold, so my uncle Barry legged it down the stairs in the hallway from the attic and woke my auntie, uncle and the kids up. My auntie and uncle know the house is haunted, because they have heard the ghost in the attic on many occasions and strange stuff had went on the house. My uncle Barry did not want to go up there again, because the ghost was up there, so he slept on the sofa that night. My auntie and uncle moved out that house, it was a old house.

I have a story about a ghost I seen in the day inside a museum on my own with my dog early in the afternoon when it was empty and quiet.

There was a tall man opposite to me standing muttering to himself, he must I have been looking for his wife. It first I did not realize who he was. I got suspicous, because he was dressed in a black suit with a bowler hat and nice walking stick and shiny black shoes, he was pale and looked real. He was in his own time, because he did not look at me as if I was not there. My dog did not notice, because he only showed himself to me, I have been curious with ghosts for years. He looked like a respectable officer from world war 1, and I think he wanted to tell his wife something, because he did not get the chance to tell his wife something in his past life. So after 5 minutes he walked round the corner, so I followed him, and soon as I went round the corner where he went, he had gone, and I was right behind him. I went into the next room and I told this man, and I said " Have you seen a tall man with a black suit" and he replied and said "no I have seen nobody come in this room" Thats when I realized I must have seen a ghost.

My coven mate says that I am sensitive to ghosts, and my coven mate also says that ghosts draws energy from people, and that's how people see ghosts.

I think the ghost absorbs the energy from the person and emits the frequencies back at the person into their eyes and reveals the image in their brain.

Magic25UK,

Re: "It was not a brake in, because my uncle experienced this activity more then once, and my other relatives.
They moved out the house, because of this activity."

All of which does nothing to demonstrate that it was other than a break-in -- a burglar. Burglars can produce the same kinds of activity you're claiming and if people kept breaking into my home, I might be persuaded to move to a better neighborhood.
---

I want you to watch what you're doing here because I've seen you do this before. You start with;
Re: "In the middle of the night the glass door in the hallway banged..."

Then you start the very next sentence with;

Re: "He heard the ghost slam the glass door where he was sleeping"

You're jumping to an unevidenced conclusion. And until you can follow the evidence to your conclusion, your conclusion will most likely be wrong.
---

As for your story, the other bits of evidence you attempt to present are that your uncle saw "something" (you say, "a ghost") right next to him and he felt cold. How does he know it was a ghost and not a burglar? If he was sleeping then it was probably dark, right? So he saw a human form and he felt cold. I'd probably feel cold and vulnerable too. And if I believed in ghosts and thought I was seeing a ghost, I'd probably feel quite a chill.

Everything else about the story is completely consistent with people jumping to the conclusion that a burglar (or even just a high school kid pulling pranks because he noted that your relatives were easy to fool), was actually a ghost. But the particulars of the story do nothing to support the idea that it was a ghost.

But all of that is getting away from the purpose of this discussion. I want to know how we can see a ghost if ghosts aren't physical entities and as was mentioned earlier, how do they interact with physical objects (such as slamming doors), if they're not physical and can pass through matter?

You say your uncle saw a ghost. Obviously, he saw something. So how do you propose that his eyes detected photons reflecting off of this "something", if the "something" wasn't physical? Do you think the ghost (assuming that's what it was), emitted the light? If so, how does a non-physical entity produce photons which are physical? The sum total mass/energy of the universe remains constant. If ghosts or spirits could create physical particles out of nothing, then the sum total mass of the universe wouldn't remain constant.

So we have some obvious problematic contradictions with the entire concept of being able to "see" a ghost. How do you propose we resolve these contradictions?

There are many different kinds of ghosts and hauntings. when they manifest themselves they pull from whats around them. mist is visible some make themselves known by creating a mist of energy

Magic25UK,

You say you think ghosts absorb energy from people and that we see them because they project a frequency into our eyes, which is interpreted by our brains.

What evidence do you have that ghosts absorb energy from people? People store energy in the form of ATP and release that energy for use by converting the ATP to ADT. We also store energy in the form of nutrients in our bloodstream but we must metabolize the nutrients in our cells to convert it to energy. So are the ghosts absorbing ATP molecules? If they are, we should feel instantly weak. Are ghosts absorbing the sugar from our bloodstream? If so, we have the same problem. ATP stored in the muscle tissue is enough to fuel a strenuous muscular exertion for about 1.5 - 2.0 seconds before it's exhausted. That's enough time for the metabolic process to begin extracting energy from nutrients in the blood which is a chemical process wherein carbon-carbon bonds in the simple sugars are broken and exchanged for carbon-oxygen bonds (that's why we need to inhale oxygen). So at what point are the ghosts absorbing our energy and why do we not suffer an energy deficit immediately upon seeing a ghost? Your story mentioned nothing about you suddenly feeling terribly weak.

As concerns this "frequency" that you believe the ghosts project, I have to ask; frequency of what? A frequency is a rating of oscillation intervals, not a substance or energy. In most uses, it refers to the oscillations in an electro-magnetic field. If that's the case, then a simple radio receiver should be able to detect ghosts. I've never heard of anyone doing that with a radio receiver. So can you elaborate on your suggestion?

And if they do project some form of oscillated energy field, how is that getting to our brain and why do we perceive it as sight?

tigerzplay,

Can you expand on "mist of energy"? To the best of my knowledge (and maybe I'm over-looking something), energy isn't visible. It doesn't reflect photons. But energy is detectable, measurable and purely a part of the physical.

tigerzplay,

I'm also curious about the assumption that there are different types of ghosts. If ghosts are dead people (which I believe is the standard concept), why would there be different types of ghosts and how do you differentiate between one "type" and another?

You speak very matter-of-factly so I'm hoping you can provide more than the standard hearsay or anecdotal evidence.

an entity to be seen or felt as though being seen has to pull energy from that which is around it. water for instance carries a great deal of energy. most often you will find reports of sightings around bodies of water. unexplained cold spots are reported to be areas where entities are trying to manifest themselves. in order for them to be noticed they must make an energy shift so to speak. I have seen moving mist even within my own home. disembodied mist that seemed to move of its own accord and yes it was cold. my electronics began acting weird and then it was gone and the electronics settled down. i dont know that you can really explain the unexplainable. I know what i felt and saw, but was it a ghost in my eyes yes. however i cant scientifcally prove it.

It feels cooler because when water evaporates,it is the one that PULLS heat ,consuming energy(kinetic energy) from everything around it.What I dont understand is what the exchange would be..how does the entity take energy from the water?I even can go for the entity charging the water,exciting the molecules and therefore producing something one might see,like mist or whatever.but as far as I know,not the other way around.

Also,if you are getting higher and radical readings on an instrument that measures Electromagnetic energy,this would lead me to believe that the entity consists of it,and in fact not drawing it from a place where there was little or none to begin with.
Now,you mentioned,as I did earlier in the thread ,that these things do seem to happen often around bodies of water,and I do feel there might be indeed something going on pretaining to that..but what? Well maybe the entity is actually the one dispensing energy that causes it to manifest.
Plasma balls happen iunder and around water too..

yes i have seen a ghost and so has my mom

BLOODdripingFANGS,

How do you suppose that happened? Do you believe that ghosts are physical or non-physical? Are they some remnant of a formerly live person or something else?

In order for you to see something, photons must travel from the object to your eyes. If you think ghosts are non-physical, then I'm not sure how you propose that photons reflected off of it and into your eyes. If you think ghosts are physical, then how do they manage to pass through walls, or is that just a myth?

You know,I have seen alot of things that could be labeled as ghosts,but I simply cannot do it "just because".And again,this thread is not about staking a claim on ghost sighting,its about disscussing ideas as to what they could possibly made of.And there are quite a few so far that present good food for thought.But it would be great to have more to chew on,So if you have seen one,would you please,please PLEASE elaborate as to what the circumstances where and what it looked like? And if possible throw an idea pretaining to the subject in there?As opposed to simply claiming youve seen one?

My uncle swore it was a ghost he ran away from it down the stairs. There was no brake in, because all the doors and windows were locked from inside, and my uncles German Shepard was in the house. My uncle was the first one down the stairs and he switched the light on at the bottom of the stairs. There are no windows in the attic, so when my aunt and uncle went up there, nobody was there. If there was someone up there they would have no escape with the lights switched on. Everything was locked in the house and his German Shepard was a noisy protective dog.

What is biology got to do with ghosts?
I saw a ghost, and I know that, I will always beleive in ghosts. I am a physics student and I know there is no scientific explaination to it, and we will never know how we see ghosts, and they have nothing to do with reflecting photons, that's just science fiction. The photon is a particle wave which is electromagnetic radiation, and it's a highly energetic particle and they reflect off objects with mass. By the way photons with high energy can pass through mass and absorb in lead, which is X-rays and Gamma rays, because they have shorter wavelengths and have higher energy then light.

By the way ghost hunters use EMF to detect ghosts.
Not all ghosts can be seen, because some ghosts don't show themselves, because some like to move things around and make noises.

Magic25UK,

You're throwing around a lot of assertions such as claiming that you "know" you saw a ghost when that's patently untrue. You "believe" you saw a ghost and maybe you did. The fact remains that until you can demonstrate your claim to be true, it remains classifiable only as "belief".

Ghosts have nothing to do with biology. I'm not sure who said they did. Perhaps I missed a post?

The claim that we will never understand ghosts is both defeatist and a rather pointless blind assertion. Perhaps we will, maybe we won't. In case it's not obvious, I don't believe they exist. But I'm willing to seek help from those who do believe they exist in trying to understand them. I've seen some conjecture and a lot of conflicting reports, but nothing solid or really helpful.

There are anecdotal tales about everything. People claimed to see Elvis after he died. People have claimed to be abducted by UFOs. People have reported sightings and abductions by bigfoot. Some people claim to be God and others claim God has charged them with a task. Dena Schlosser claimed God wanted her to cut the arms off her baby daughter which she did, leading to her daughter's death. David Koresh claimed he was God. Some suggest that Jesus Christ claimed he was God. David Berkowitz claimed demons were communicating with him through dogs. Richard Nixon claimed he wasn't a crook and Bill Clinton claimed he never had sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky.

Claims are abundant and easy. Ever notice how rarely the claims fit the evidence? Berkowitz now claims there were no demons. Richard Nixon was found to be guilty of criminal activity. Koresh and Jesus died just as would any man under the same circumstances. Dena Schlosser had a brain tumor. Bill Clinton did have sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky.

Koresh, Berkowitz, Schlosser, Jesus and Koresh may well have "believed" their claims. That doesn't make them true. In fact, in many cases it is the sincerity of beliefs that key the rest of us into recognizing a deficit of certain cognitive factors in others.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But rather than even ordinary evidence, what we're provided are just claims... claims devoid of even a minimal standard of evidence. And with all of the people claiming they've seen ghosts, you might think that at least one or two of them would have some kind of extraordinary evidence to match their extraordinary claim. Ever notice how people who don't believe in ghosts never seem to see them? Ever notice how the more someone believes, the more likely they are to lay claim to a sighting? Some might suggest that greater belief makes one more open to accepting what they're seeing. But I can't help but note how this is a parallel with religion. People who believe in Allah never have revelations from the Christian God. People who believe in the Christian God never seem to be contacted by Allah.

In the end, the evidence points to just one thing -- people tend to experience what they expect, even when their expectations exceed reality.

So until someone provides at least a reasonable smidgen of evidence I'll continue to note that the claims they make about ghosts are contradictions to the physical laws. And when claims contradict the physical laws, we can rest fairly safe in the belief that their claims have manifested only in their heads, as have their proclaimed experiences.

It's nothing less than you would do if you were skeptical about a claim. If someone told you they watched a semi-truck grow wings which started to flap and lifted the truck into the sky, without some fairly stout evidence, you'd likely disbelieve the claim and you'd be right to do so. If you heard the claim that Hitler lived in the apartment above you and everytime you looked, you saw only an old lady and her cat, you might well note that the extraordinary claim was lacking in even ordinary evidence and discount the claim. That's all I'm doing.

So until someone can offer a credible explanation (and hopefully, some evidence), I'm going to suggest that the resident above you is just an old woman and a cat, and you have only allowed yourself to see what you expected to see based on falsely held beliefs -- you didn't see a ghost. You (the collective "you" for the thread), likely saw "something" you didn't understand and "ghost" was the conclusion to which you jumped, just as people hundreds of years ago jumped to the conclusion that evil spirits caused disease and explained the failure of some blood transfusions because they already held a belief in these things and lacked a rational explanation. Obviously, had they not already believed in spirits, they wouldn't jumped to this purely false conclusion.

hi guys ive got something that may change your minds about ghosts!!!

when i was 7 i had a best friend called andrew, one day i was off school ill. and one that evening my friend andrew came into my room and sat on the bed and told me not to worry and that he is ok i said im happy your ok ! and he went away! my mum came walking in my room and asked me who i was talking to and i told he i was talking to andrew!!

my mum sat on the bed and began to tell me that andrew had died on the way home from school!!!
he was messing around jumping on the back bumper of the school bus, and the belt on his coat got caught in the wheel which dragged him into the arch where he was killed instantly with head injuries!!!

he came to me to tell me he was ok !

i believe in ghosts for this reason! i have my mum to back up what i said , ghosts are real very real i will carry this memory till i die!!!

so im sorry guys i defy anyone who dismisses ghosts!!!

your welcome to give an opinion but this is a true story!

A ghost is like when u do not see air but see mist like gasses,
especially when it comes into formation,
a ghost has a cold chill when it is near or some times if you feel something is near you,

normski,

That's a very interesting anecdote. Obviously, you couldn't tell that what you saw and spoke to was a ghost rather than a living, breathing person. Please compare your story to the description of ghosts in the post directly below yours.

It seems that each person who claims to have seen a ghost, sees something different -- likely something consistent with their pre-conceived notions of what a ghost might look like. I wonder if anyone here has an account of seeing a ghost during a time when they had no belief in ghosts. I've never seen one even though I used to believe they existed. It would seem that the vast majority of people, even those who believe in them, have never seen one.

The point of this thread is to remember that your eyes are physical devices. They amount roughly to advanced photon detectors. So in order to see a ghost, the ghost must either emit or reflect photons, (particles of light).

How do you suppose a non-physical entity like a ghost manages to reflect physical particles like photons, while not itself, being physical?

Normski,I would like to clarify something..again.no one here has discounted the exsistence of ghosts at all.All we are attempting to do is get beyond the claim part of it and disscuss different things as to what they could be.And attempt to discount what they most likely are not.As I stated,Ive seen things that make me go "Hmmm", and that in itself makes me lean towards believeing that there is something to it all.But what is that something?Dont know about you,but I know I would surely like to know. Many times things believed to be ghosts or divine apparitions have been attributed to something else.Not paranormal,but mundane ,natural phenomenon.For instance St.Elmos Fire,which was thought to be the gods signaling sailors that all would be well etc...down the road,come to find out it is a natural proccess of the planet.So my challenge to you is this..You state you would defy anyone who says they arent real..ok do it.Put something on the table we can look at and break down..dont just expect everyone to accept that they are reall simply because many claim them to be.This thread goes beyond the "are they real or arent they" and into the what could they be?Whats so wrong with that?And Magic,you are a student of these processes,Come on help us out here in breaking things down please.You out of all of us should have some great ideas of proccesses that could lend substance to these claims yes?

Normski,your stat3ement here"hi guys ive got something that may change your minds about ghosts!!!"

While interesting indeed,it doesnt come close to convincing me.The things Ive seen for myself had already convinced me SOMETHING is happening.

MagicUK,How do you think they do this?
"I think the ghost absorbs the energy from the person and emits the frequencies back at the person into their eyes and reveals the image in their brain."
And I cant help but wonder why a ghost would have a concious and if so,it means they have free will,which I had thought was something that man had an exclusive on.I cold be wrong tho.

That's an excellent point, Oceanne. People often hope to convince others when all they can offer is their own lack of doubt. I tend not to believe that Elvis was walking around live after he was found dead despite the hundreds of people who claimed they saw him after he died. I tend not to believe that Muslims will receive 72-virgins after they die. I don't believe that the members of the Heaven's Gate Community were transported to a space vessel upon their deaths. I believe they threw their lives away to silly superstition.

If we all believed someone on the basis of a good story and their personal lack of belief, we'd all be harboring a vast number of contradictive and diametrically opposed beliefs which would make us all purely irrational.

So as Oceanne pointed out, this thread attempts to seek beyond the simple, do you believe or don't you believe. It attempts to explore possibilities as to why some seem to see ghosts and others do not and exactly how someone could actually see a ghost if ghosts are non-physical and able to pass through walls. Claims to see ghosts and claims that they can pass through walls would appear, from a physics stand-point, to be a contradiction.

So are they physical or are they non-physical? And if they're physical how do they manage to pass through walls? If they're non-physical, how do they reflect or emit photons? And why is it that some people see them just as they would see a person with nothing particularly strange while others insist they appear slightly misty or simply as a mist and report a cold feeling when they appear?

The claims of some who believe and claim to have seen them seem to contradict the claims of others who claim to have seen them. Why is this? Any thoughts?

Thanks Beast,and somethng that seems to get left behind in this,time and time again, is the very thing that makes us function.The thing that makes us feel, taste, hear, see, and think? The brain itsellf.Without a brain, how can we process thought and feelings? And figure out how to execute these manifestations etc...

There is something else too..the lack of emotion often experienced in NDE and all that.Ever notice that m0st who experience this(And I have twice) report the feeling of well being and no care for the world anymore? Now if this is the case,why would a ghost even concern themselves with whats going on in our lives really ,because after all,theyre in a different place and they already would know that in the end,things are goiing to be ok.

I was reading something about the pharoahs.

The pharaohs believed that the immortal soul was made of 3 elements; and the soul had something to do with the Earth's magnetic energy.

The Earth's magnetic field has something to do with seeing ghosts. Because ghost hunter EMF, where they create a magnetic field to detect ghosts.

Something that I did mention before are the Torsion fields ,where everything that happens here is more or less recorded,in frequencies known as the Akashic records...Any thoughts on that aspect?

Good call Magic,yes,and one of the things the preiest did was called "Opening of the Mouth," ceremony over the mummified body, and doing so restored all the senses to the body.
So,without that Ceremony,do you feel it is possible that these things were restored? Or never lost to begin with?

I have heard of phantom highwayman riding carriages through a persons house and the residents found out that there was a old road that the houses were build on. This couple were sitting having their lunch, and a phantom carriege drove right through their house and vanished.

I heard of a Roman soldier on horseback that cuts through a pub celler in York, and the land lord found out that it was a old road where his pub is.

I have heard about the phantom monk that wanders a busy bypass some where in Sheffield, and a lot of drivers have reported sightings of a monk appearing in front of cars and wandering around the side of the road. They found out that the bypass was build over a old monastry from Medievil times.

Historical records can be evidence.

Well,if I were going to use them as evidence,it would be to utilize them in a manner as to help research things like what time it was,weather conditions,where did it happen and what time of year..were there any earthquakes or other activity happeneing... I wouldnt use the claim itself as anykind of evidence for proof.

Oceanne

I don't really know, it depends on your faith, and what you beleive in.

I am trying to prove that ghosts exist, because historical records could be a great help, because its amazing what information you find in records. A ghost haunts a certain location, because some ghosts are lost in their own time and they can't move on to the spirit world, because they have unfinished business here on earth.

I agree that they can be very helpful.And Im not so sure that faith has much to do with it..I know it doesnt with me.But as for proof,all it does is proove that something is going on,but it in no way prooves its ghosts ..and what wo7uld their unfinished biz be? Isnt that why we get a shot here on Earth? To accomplish what we can while we are here? Once we're gone,that chance is over..fini. Untill you are reincarnated,if one believes in that...

I was reading from a book and some documentries I was watching. It does not really prove anything, and I don't think theres any scientific explaination to why people see ghosts, it could be all in the persons imagination, and it will never be answered, it will always remain a mystery.

See I disagree,I dont think it will remain a mystery.I really believe we will find a way to not only figure what they could be,but I thik we will ba able to proove it.

The only way it will remain a mystery is if no one looks into it..hell we all thought man would never reach the stars either...

I am also one of the ones who has claimed to "see" a ghost out of the corner of my eye. I have also felt a presence, and cannot explain it. As I have read, many have explanations for seeing things we claim to be ghosts. I still like to believe that we can occasionally catch a glimpse...

well even though i have not seen a ghost yet but they are visible to people. we have numerous such instances in villages where people have seen ghosts.

A glimps of??????? Are we all so unhappy and unsatisfied with our world ,everything in it and universe that we have to hope for things to the point where we cannot even understand or accept them for what they are?or could in fact be? And I am not saying these things do not include what is now dubbed "paranormal" or divine.I only think our concept of it is askew.This place is fantastic and offers us so much,but we always want more,dont we.

"well even though i have not seen a ghost yet but they are visible to people. we have numerous such instances in villages where people have seen ghosts."


And your point is please? Forgive me if I dont see how this statement contributes to anything other than your post count.This thread isnt about convincing anyone whether or not these things exsist,if we didnt think there was something to it,I dont think we would be here having this disscussion to the extent we are.So I will ask you,what in your mind leads you to believe that they do exsist? OTHER than meer accounts of others or your own experiences.

Here is a little information of periphial sightings of ghosts and shadow people..at least some better explainiation of what we covered a little earlier in the thread..

http://www.assap.org/newsite/articles/Visual%20substitutions.html

Seeing things that appear to be ghost, we see what is impressed upon us as a ghost. I watch people watch people.. I can see people seeing/hearing ghost. How is that? If we have day dreams (I have micro seizures) and a character memory stands out to us, when we drift into a tunnel vision distortion of vision is possible.. if that is attached to sentimental memory, then a presence (imprinted fondly by our deceased loved one, while they lived)is likely to stir us in that suspended neural synapsis, I have read here in a post, some very accountable testimony to memorial presences being witnessed. Sadly these are usually not nearly as grand and sensational as a "sighting", but then people expound for flare, I liken it to missing a parade before you.. while looking up in expectation of fireworks. How I have sat in front of my grandmas painting and felt a connection, echos of the time I stood by here paintings with her. I see people see ghost, it is in their reaction when they pause.. I study the account of peoples sightings, and I do connect with some, a girl here saw a man sitting it appeared to her to be a ghost, what could support that claim? I give it accountablitly how? Well perhaps she noticed (subconsciously that no one else appeared to see this man, A panhandler perhaps) What appears to be a ghost is just as imporatant as what a ghost is. I like how people claim to have definitive rights to what a ghost is, yet there are many more "studies" to counter theirs, the field of Paranormal things is not only challenged from those outside the field, but from inside as well. It comes down to their interpitation of things that appear to be ghost. I find a lot of material that their studies are based on have been exposed, what then becomes of their data?

you can see thru a ghost, usually. an outline or form that is transparent is usually seen.. other than that you dont see a physical ghost, that i know of.

ive have seen something before not sure if it was a ghost or over reaction

I don't know how you can see ghosts...The first time I saw one was in the middle of the day and I was home alone...it was see through and the dog barked at it...and I have seen several ghostly entities since then but do not know how to scientifically explain what I've seen...I believe they manifest themselves using energy in the area to project their image

Magic25UK,

Re: "I have heard of phantom highwayman riding carriages through a persons house and the residents found out that there was a old road that the houses were build on. This couple were sitting having their lunch, and a phantom carriege drove right through their house and vanished."

As I noted before, I've heard of people seeing Elvis Presley out walking around, fully alive, long after he was found dead.
---

Re: "I heard of a Roman soldier on horseback that cuts through a pub celler in York, and the land lord found out that it was a old road where his pub is."

I've heard of people who say they can find water hidden deep underground with a forked stick or a pair of dowsing rods.
---

Re: "I have heard about the phantom monk that wanders a busy bypass some where in Sheffield, and a lot of drivers have reported sightings of a monk appearing in front of cars and wandering around the side of the road. They found out that the bypass was build over a old monastry from Medievil times.

I've heard of people sighting a creature described as three feet high with a head like a collie and the face of a horse with a long neck, wings and hind legs similar to those of a crane but with horses hooves. It was claimed to walk on the hind legs with the two short front legs and paws held up. It's known to some as the "Jersey Devil".

I've heard of the famed chupecabra and at least one person even found the hairs from this creature after it raided their ranch. The hairs were tested. They were ordinary dog hair. Nothing more.

Re: "Historical records can be evidence.

Historical records might show the cause behind the proclaimed sighting such as ancient travelers seen in modern times along roads which used to exist but don't exist any longer. But the next step is to show that those claiming the sighting had no foreknowledge of the existence of the roads.

Again; we hear claims about a great many things. And if you begin to look, you can find people who have claimed to see things you've never even heard about. Oddly enough, people rarely see anything paranormal that they haven't heard about before-hand.

People who have heard of ghosts and take to believing in ghosts then see a cloud of mist and to them, the mist is a ghost. Why couldn't it be a cloud of mist? Others follow a person who turns a corner and then seems to vanish as there don't seem to be any other exits. Isn't it possible they just didn't see the exit? I've talked to people who call panicked to report their car stolen from a parking lot and we find the car sitting in the parking lot, right where they left it. Sometimes it's a matter of forgetting where they parked, other times it's a matter of forgetting which car they were driving and looking for the wrong one. People are quite fallible and often jump to rash and wrongful conclusions.

Some people claim their encounters with ghosts were indistinguishable from encounters with people while others assert a great deal of mystical values to the encounter.

These are all extraordinary claims and most are devoid of even the most ordinary evidence. If I say I saw the creature from the black lagoon appear in my bath tub, does that make it so?

This is a hunt for evidence and reason. If ghosts are actually being seen, how does this happen? Why does it happen? How come the sightings seem so different from one person to another? Why does it only happen to a relatively small segment of the population? Could it simply be the subject dreaming while fully conscious? Studies where volunteers are deprived of REM sleep regularly show dreams happening while the person is fully conscious. Images, shapes and sounds simply appear to be super-imposed over reality.

Why are the claims so often contradictive such as non-physical ghosts who reflect light, emit light and walk through walls? People can repeat claims all day long. It does nothing to raise the veracity or credibility of any of the claims. Claims are cheap and easy. Evidence is of value. Reasonable explanations are of value. Demonstrations are of value.

Who says that got are not physical maybe not entierly but they do manipulate their surrondings at times and that must mean they have some physical parts just because you cant explain it dosent mean it isnt there

OK, ghost are entities that are not in solid form as we know it according to our plain of reality or being. Therefore people sometimes refer to movies to justify what they think they saw. In all reality ghost exists, but can't be seen as of yet scientiffically.

juanaldamuy,

How would you define "seen scientifically" differently than "seen"?

Many people seem to treat science as simply the study of one realm of reality. Science is the study of all of reality. It's only requirement is that there be credible evidence to study.

I grasp that you believe that ghosts actually exist. Re-asserting it as though it were a demonstrable reality does little to provide the concept with greater credibility. That would require evidence and reason. That's why I'm asking for evidence and/or reason.

How is it that you hold such pure confidence concerning the physical characteristics of ghosts while practitioners of science are still waiting for credible evidence to facilitate study?

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