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One example is the use of Cold reading by people claiming to be connecting with spirits.

Some Cults teach Hyper-ventilation "exercises".

What have you read or seen that made you question the practices of groups or mediums?

Mediums Claim during a sitting that the sitter will be touched by spirits, or angels.. when the lights are off, or dimmed, and the sitters eyes are closed they blow chilled bubbles into the face of the sitter.

Starving members in a group, or lowering their food intake, and then slipping vitamin B into food is a ruse used by cults, the resulting "high" is interurpited as a divine blessing.

do ya have any examples of cults that do this dabblermeister?

All in time friend, I want to see what others relate.

isolation as a punishment, making ya apreciate the social aspect of the cult more.

awarding someone for something "leader" likes, like training a dog. wish it wasnt that easy to brainwash a person like a pet but alas... sigh.

Omnicencent phrases.. to do this all that is needed is to chat up other people associated with a person. Getting base info. This is used by Mediums and cult leaders both. If something that a person did or said is alluded to in a conversation later by a person that wasn't there, that makes a subconscious impression.

Mediums us a ruse where under pretense they have a member of their "church"/organization come for a visit to the would be member/clients house. They rifle any available info, even taken, or hiding (in obscure places) small mementos to be "manifested" later by the leader/medium, or psychically located (to be found where the leader/medium reveled.)


Back ground checks..

Private detectives have changed their procedures because of this practice. It is easy to get info that can be built on by having a back ground check ran on a person. divorce info, marrage info, this all can be used by cults and mediums to appear to be omnisecent.
The popular way and most common is to use a private detective. To get an authorized signature for this (required) is easy actually.

A medium in the ranks of Sylvia Browns "ministry" used "volunteer" packages. Even using the referals to call and press family and friends for "stock info" used in "client/mark" bios Bio: a collection of info used to develop readings and gauge a clients assets.

Good point Molly, Telling new members about those cast out from the cult makes it appear the new member is not granted to be present but privilaged.

Most anyone who is using it to 'make a living' is suspicious to me.

crying.. funny how much in common your description and the us military boot camp training have in common..no wonder my ex husband went crazy....

The black Box a pratice the Spiritualist would use as a parlor game. It is a black painted box with a very dim light. The room is dark with only the small glimmer of light showing on the person inside the box. I believe eyes will deceive. Others would speak out, stating that looks like my dead Uncle****, others may say a passed over relative. I honestly believe what I had seen was what my eyes perceived me to see with the hype of others stating they actually seen their relatives who passed over.

Black light effects are used in sittings as well.

Another practice is In-stocking: Using previously converted members to respond to newly trained recruiters on there out reach.

This is also used by financial activity cults (not all cults are religious in nature.)

Assertive direct confrontation.. as mention in part above, using intense corrective language to both demean and award members. This is popular in Motivation Cults Or Large Group Awareness cults.

Example:
"Your nothing, hear that? your nothing.. can you believe that.. ?

You say I am something.. but are you.. if you have your life together.. then why did you come here tonight?

Because you WANT TO BE SOMEONE !!! Right?

Right? Now that is affirmation by proxy, you are agreeing with the last part, but the whole speal at the same time. A back handed comment on steroids.

Crying Duchess hit a good point, the recruit type. Relation to the person by the leader.. this is the practice of encouraging testimony.. sometimes confabulations are created in a member to allude to a shared back ground. Interpitation of simple family things by the leader, used to make a person cast doubt on the way they where brought up.

Before I meet guru (_ _ _) I was neglected by my family..

I was picked on in school by the heaten.

That brings another thing to mind, and it is a dozzy, Jargon

changing the language a person uses creates a gap between them and the outside social dynamic. Calling nonbelievers.. Aways for example.

Limiting the alone time as mention is a devious trick in it's self but to condense the topics of conversation that is a stronger practice.

I do not go to mediums due to the fact i dont rightly know whom is fake or not..

At the base any that claim to be anything but entertainment are suspect. Any attempt to engage a '''client" in any clinical type activity is suspect, when anything personal is refered to dismiss yourself. Arbitrary pricing after the initial cost is suspect, example:

a reader here had a sign that said 20 dollar analysis .. he would get a person in with a verbal pitch, "Would you like a reading for a couple of dollars (after they stop to read the sign.) those that say "why not." and have a reading get a vague pass at the cards. Then casually he ask "Would you like an analysis?" caught up in the moment people go with it.. (if not understanding what they are excepting) he then reads more into the cards, (using previous leads from the first reading) and then mentions, and reminds them that 20 dollars is due.

The traditional use of Entertainers as mediums in parlor days involved freinds together, it is best to have friends experience the reading as a group, it acts as an ice breaker, a mixer activity. Sadly the mediums know all well that isolation is a key way to create dependency in people.

Cults are just scary no matter who you are.. That has to deal with mind control and so on.. No way..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwltAIkjgvo

I suggest watching all of this series 1-6 a very clear program.

The entertainment Verses claimed Clinical aspect of such things needs to be stated strongly.

I wouldn't place cults and mediums together myself as the only cults I have ever seen in actions are ones of a Christian nature. Mediums are a different thing altogether, if you don't believe then you get just what you went for to debunk someone.

I am sure not all mediums are real anymore then all religious people honestly believe in what the propose. There are good and bad in all things.

Mikhail

Spiritualist falter in and out of their claim to be a religion, yet they still cling to their non profit status. If they are clearly label entertainment then they are entertainers. If the claim to contact spirits or do any clinical mystic reading, then they need to be labeled frauds.. get what I mean, it is called the Occult, and yes mediums do get people together on retreats to bilk them of their money. Get over any mediums claim. They all all exploiting peoples grief. Watch the link I left above. I make no apologies for my stand. All mediums are fraud. They are performers.

No medium will ever apply that skill for guile to anything but taking peoples money. Cults are the same way, people give churches flack, yet some how mystic Hacks get exempt. Telling people they are closed minded if the hack ass medium makes an ass out of themselves. Editing to show desired "hit" Hot reading, Cold reading. Obtaining Information under false Pretense.. What is redemable about such people? If I went in and hacked your computer, and then used that info to engineer a plot to gain your trust, would you be upset?

There are no such thing as good mediums, only good performers who claim to "connect with spirits". There are also performers that are good at what mediums use to appear to be speaking with spirits, and cult leaders use the same things. The difference is in the billing. Pay 5-10 bucks and go into an audience.. and laugh and learn socialy about the friends you share the experience with. Or going into a makeshift parlor/shop, and have some stranger dribble vague comments to you.

Dabbler Spiritualism as you well know is a recognised religion....no flaming please or this thread will be closed.

It says right in their statement that they are not a religion. What is Flaming?

In what statement dabbler ?....I have no idea what your talking about.

Our Community chooses to honor diversity and sacredness in all life. We are not formally connected to a particular religion. Our ministers and community humbly serve God and each other by providing for ourselves and each other to remember who we really are . . .

The Language of their mission statement is vague, and this is a common practice of such profit based groups. I have been involved in two chapters of Spiritualist Groups and they always made the corrections to those that mentioned religion. Really it is sad that people invest so much in a practice that has been expoited time and again for fraud.

Dabbler I'm still none the wiser.

I have no idea what groups you speak off.

If they say they are not a religion then they do not fall under the heading of Spiritualists as far as I'm aware.

I believe some folk call themselves Spiritists or some such, perhaps these are the groups you speak off ?....if so then no, they are not a recognised religion.

Please give me a link to your churches mission statement. You can message me.

We don't have a mission statement as such dabbler, we have seven principals which are :

1. The Fatherhood of God.
2. The Brotherhood of Man.
3. The Communion of Spirits and the Ministry of Angels.
4. The Continuous Existence of the Human Soul.
5. Personal Responsibility.
6. Compensation and retribution hereafter for all the good and evil deeds done on earth.
7. Eternal progress open to every human soul.

I hope that helps.

Religions need mission statements it keeps outsiders from abusing the credidation of the church for their own shady intentions. Something that I noticed in the church was when a questionable exchange "reading" happened, sometimes (and usually) caught by an undercover investigator. The church "leaders" would claim that that was a Rague case. yet they all do the exact same practice. It is a sensational based practice, the religios over tones are played down, yet used to "bind with those that have a background religion. It is a sad thing when a place that is set for social spiritual meditations is filled with people doing deceptive practices.

Here is part two https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A0-UBys10w

Are you confident, I did not say do you believe. Are you confident that people can do what mediums claim to do? If so you are being duped, and they are lieing to you for your money, and endorsement.

Deceptive Practices of Cults, and Mediums. Everything is a "career". Just for the money, like doctors and lawyers. The only difference is that these people make some humans believe that they have super power which is pure bologne.

I forgot the important thing about the above mentioned principals, they are to be freely interpreted by individuals.

Dabbler you paint a grim picture of what happens inside a Spiritualist church.

Where I come from, we gather in prayer, sing hymes, and are given evidence of survival, which we are free to accept or not.

We are told before every service to speak up and say yes or no to what we are given.

The only money which changes hands is on the collection plate which again, we are free to give or not.

I have no doubt there are fake mediums, like you, if I ever found one I would stand and denounce them.

I do not object to you saying things about fakes, but please stop using blanket terms.

Thank you.

every religion and every practice has those whose soul purpouse is to decieve those around them the occult is no different. i am not saying its acceptable and im not condoning it im just saying its there. There are those who simply enjoy decieving whoever they can.

Thank you, I notice here that someone mentions churches being cult, yet somehow thinks that mediums and spiritualism is not cultish as well. I notice that they have no examples of fraud posted either, Is it their understanding that their are no fraud cases involving mediums?

Mediums that I have known don't have groups of people hanging on. They don't lead others they simply give to them or sell to them information the person desires. To me a cult is an organized society with a leader, IE: Jim Jones or The Davidions.

Mikhail

Yea but here is a thread about deceptive practices, I bet you can, if you really tried, find an example of Such things. John Edward is a Cult leader. Your willing to call religions cults yet you think mediums are not cult functions.. you make me laugh twice in one half hour period, you really are entertaining... I would like you in any belief I started, you would make a great follower. You see I have believed like you do now.. so how did I turn from faith? The same way I turned from religion, I opened my eyes and saw how an open mind can be cluttered, and how I had nothing to show for my faith.. the social function is the draw for the majority of members to cults, they also like to be entertained by their faith, thanks for the laugh, really if not a Empath you are indeed an entertainer. Work on your pitch, I can see how it would work on a person with limited Critical thinking.. they will likely be "impressed".

"Cult" typically refers to a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding population considers to be outside the mainstream.

A group's cult status begins as rumors spread of its novel belief system, its great devotions, its idiosyncratic practices, its perceived harmful or beneficial effects on members or its perceived opposition to the interests of mainstream cultures and governments. Persistent rumors may follow relatively small and recently founded religious or non-religious groups when they are perceived to engage in excessive member control or exploitation.
Thanks to Wiki..

John Edwards sells a product himself as far as I have seen I tend to to watch shows of that nature because I don't happen to believe in the selling of a gift. Gift is giving freely without repayment. I still would class him with Jim Jones I seriously doubt John Edwards would get a group of people to kill themselves because of his claims. I guess then Tony Robbins would be a cult leader as well he sells self help.

I honestly don't get the similarities between this two?

A group's cult status begins as rumors spread of its novel belief system, its great devotions, its idiosyncratic practices, its perceived harmful or beneficial effects on members or its perceived opposition to the interests of mainstream cultures and governments. Persistent rumors may follow relatively small and recently founded religious or non-religious groups when they are perceived to engage in excessive member control or exploitation.
Thanks to Wiki..

He has a following, people buy his books, in hopes that they will be able to talk with dead people (like he claims to) he does not talk with dead people, he cold reads, and hot reads his audience, he edits his show to exclude his wrong guesses. He is using guile, and pretense to entertain thew faith of people that come to his shows. I have never meet a medium without a cash motive. He exploits people, under false pretenses of faith.. even if he only gets endorsement from them, Or another shill in the audience, that he can pretend to just meet, same as that hack Sylvia Brown. .

Alright Johns Edwards is a fraud that is a given but he doesn't have a group of people under his thrall 24/7, He doesn't call for them to do anything but buy his books and come to his shows. Now Heavens gate was and still is a cult, so are the Dividions. The association of cult to me is with fringe religions. Mediums come and go, I have meet a few that I have thought to be genuine although no one can come up with quantifiable proof it is something you must already be predisposed to believing in

Mikhail

I agree mediums and cults are two different types.

I went to a medium in New York she did not know me or of me. She sketched a charcoal drawing of all who passed before me. She never asked me a question, but gave me information I only knew.

Cults to me are people who are looking to belong. No medium has ever asked someone to turn over their property or their life savings to them. No medium has ever put a recording on talking about religion in the middle of the night. There is quite a huge difference.

Spiritualism is a religion. They go by the law of principals and one that sticks out to me, is that we make our own happiness or unhappiness.

Excellent mediums will tell you they are only a conductor through a higher power.

Cult leaders will try and convince you they are God.

Quite a huge difference.

I stand by my observation, and case studies of mediums, and cults. They share an actual practice. Their practices are claimed to be what it is not, please submit to the thread, what deceptive practices do cults and mediums use? Or is it your position that cults and mediums never deceive people?

I think cults are weird.Thats putting it lightly.And I might get into trouble for this one,but Ive noticed what I would consider a cult right here.Ive read their stuff,taken note of the way they act and things they say...and as far as Im concerned,they fit the bill of what you are talking about Dab.Its a small group..hope it remains that way.

I woulds say VR is a social gathering without an established teaching, so it is not a cult persay, though it does have the hall marks of a cultural cult, in league with Cult classic films. Yet no one has pressured my to worship Cancer, or buy all the Vampire Seminar tapes.

Margret Thaler Singer, and her collueges have the best defininition for cult I will dig that up, there is a more direct word as well for the practice that cults use that distguishes the cult from, social structured organizations, like VR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Singer

Social Pathology that is an element created by cults. Along with other underlying agendas.

I understand,but I wasnt talking of VR in general.

Cults are more then just religious based as well, there are financial cults, motivation cults, diet cults, health cults.

dabbler i don't like acults they are way to controling and way to scarey for me not my cup of tea.

Aware is good, scared I hope that by presenting people with a clear definition of practices they can be alert to such groups, for their own safety, and well being (financial, social, and mental), as well as friends who become over involved in suspect organizations.

By bluring what is and what is not a cult, people create an environment where cults can slip under the radar, it used to take some major event to bring concern for Manipulation Groups, now as the "game" gets old hat, and Agencies are forming (not the old fashion Deprogramers(whacks in their own right) but comprehansive studies of such things, is developing.

Cults have always been deceptive, its the leaders business to bring in as many converts as he can. They brain wash there followers to make money and achieve some goal they and some of the people closer to them are privy to.

Mediums use sound effects and other devices to scare or garner something from the people they see which is mostly money. I still would place the two groups into the same category because they use different methods.

Mikhail

Well , i for one am not one to question as I have never had a bad experience . there is play here in NY called
Lillydale . It is a small vilage of noting but mystics and mediums . I have supplioed a link.
I have been there many times before each time i leave there I leave more in blance then I was when I got there.

http://www.lilydaleassembly.com/

The same practice can be found in both occult groups and cult groups. You are right that the two are not linked, but I would take note that cults find many converts in the occult following. Catering to the spiritual aspects, or even alluding to influences of another faith will increase a cult leaders pitch. I mentioned the practice of appearing Ominisenct by using the cold reading, and hot reading when relating , or interacting with followers. The seminars and the filled venues for Uri Geller, that still gives me concern to whether that would qualify as a cult, I do know that his agents send out guest packages to his seminars, so a percentage of his audience is arranged.
Which brings me back to the Preconditioned converts post.
Misleding someone with some performance, under guile of spiritual, or clinical claims, that is a core concern of many BUNCO squads, the ones that handle the cases of exploited people. To what degree is entertainment, and religious theater crossed? I would point out also that plenty of performers that do medium acts (for parlor mixers, and social ice breakers) advertise with the compliance : For Novelty Purposes Only, Or For Entertainment Purposes Only. I know a few who do such things, they have a regular gig with Campus entertainment, for dorm "Slumber Nights".

Any examples of deceptive practices?

Using "You are this or you are that."
For example, telling would be converts/members,

"Any child can grasp this concept."

"You don't want to be closed minded, Do You?"

"The unenlightened just don't understand, or are not ready to accept these beliefs."

This appeals to a persons ego actually.

"Some Cults teach Hyper-ventilation "exercises". "

Yea, it's called Christians on stage, acting like their are healing people by slapping people on the forehead and them flying backwards onto the floor.

I was doing tarot reads online for a few years. I knew there were others on the site that were full of shit. But I did not do cold reads. I would connect with the person on the other end and then pull cards for them while thinking of them, their name and info. Then I would look the stuff up. But I didn't just pull crap out of a hat and pass that as truth. Not all readers and psychics are thieves and I wish people would stop saying so. Give them the benefit of the doubt. And just because they aren't right all the time, doesn't mean they are full of shit either.

I was told all the time that I was spot on and hitting it right on the head. It really depended on how well I was able to read a person's energy, how open they were. It's not always the reader, sometimes the people being read are COLD.

I could insert a list of so called mediums that where given a doubt, along with the people who where taken by those mediums, mediums that where very accurate actually.. how where they so accurate? Simple they had House keepers collect bio info from their personal property. I find it amusing that people are aware of the Christian ministry scams yet they act oblivious to the fraud in their practice.

All my deallings have been with trickory. I have very little faith in them. I not saying that there isnt any genuin ones out there but the fake ones are to numerious.

All it has to do with deception. Leaders prey on the human weakness and thats how they put things across. They tell us what we want to know.

It's probably not easy to find real mediums in the world, or real vampires, or real anything but people. There are many reasons for that, but I digress..

Most mediums are false, but not all. I have had very detailed and accurate readings done on me in the past.

Of course you won't find this on the floor over your corner deli, but if you search hard enough, you will find geniune psychics.

so are you trying to say that all mediums are fake? because if you are, I really feel sorry for you. You dont sound very open minded and seem to have been messed up by some experience you must have had. Of course there are fake ones out there and they give the true readers a bad name.
and this isnt meant to bad mouth you or anything..its an honest question..

For entertainment, that is the origin of such things, study your history.

Entertaining is a tradition, popular in parlor mixers, the only application for mediums, performance, some are crafty, they have an adapted skill that is above basic social skills.. any claim that a person can communicate with the dead, is creating a hostage situation. Using fragmented info to read people, is a craft(as in hobby). Plan and soimple, I resent you calling me closed minded. How you just assume that I never believed what you believe. Like people just block things out. A very egotistical way to defend your faith, you assume that once a believer always a believer, sad really.

In response to what Jamie said about Christian churches performing so called "healings" on stage, I do agree that many churches/evangelists dramaticize such events.

However, I was once a ministry intern in a charismatic church that sometimes incorperated such "spiritual pheonomenon". In my experience there, I realized that whether or not those things were truly spiritual forces, they often do have a profound positive effect on people. It may come down to something as simple as a placebo effect, but if the person is able to believe healing has taken place, that healing often minifests itself in the real world (both emotionally and physically). I have witnessed this effect several times throughout my life. As a result, I have come to believe that charismatic Christian practices can be beneficial whether or not the explanations for spiritual pheonomenon are correct.

Not healing just relief from symptoms actually this practice goes back, more modern in medicine shows. No "Faith healer has ever, or will ever cure any thing more then hypocondria.

But thank you Cal.. you make a point here is something worth checking out.. remember he barely holds his non-profit status.. he makes upward of 25,000,000 a year.. and he goes to hospitals when he is sick.




It should be noted that I had a conversation with a "pastor" of a faith healing church, (they have guest healers) I mentioned the South American Faith Healer, the one that died of cancer, I asked why didn't he try faith healing? The "pastor" replied, "A faith healer cannot practice healing themselves." I thought this an interesting reply. I followed up with, " Why did he not go to another faith healer?" The man became enraged with me. Hmm.. wonder why?

Dabbler if you boldly state that all healers faith/spiritual only 'work'only on people who suffer from hypochondria as well as the fact that all mediums are fake...well I think kytryn is quite right to call you closed minded.

Sinora, why cannot Spiritualist churches just offer grief counseling? Why must they keep people from settling their grief, telling people that their loved ones have important messages for them, for a price, I have been to the "churches, and I cannot pretend that they are a religion.. they have one thing in mind.. getting money from members. Gigs up, has been since the 1800s I hope some day you can be disenchanted.. and break your delusions. healthy grievances cannot come from such a quack religion. Closed minded you say.. I only wish you had a closed mind to the wash they are pulling on you.

BTW it is only a minority of people who are followers of the occult. people who are emotional distraught, they then linger for the social support, something that "churches" know all so well. Performing tricks to entertain their masses, same damn thing the major religions did, until they were caught, no more compromise.. it is all a fraud, based on wishful thinking. Shall I start listing all the cases? retreat fraud, elder abuse, oh you will say, that is not my church that is doing that, well then fine, why are you so set on defending a church that has been caught doing this? Did you know that most victims that are taken by mediums are usually from other groups (groups that may actually care for their members, it is the promise of things greater that lure them. Trumpet seances are magic (as in hocus pocus) they collect info on there members and use it to pose as ghost, that is sick.. sick SICK.. and wrong.. Wrong WRONG.

Dabbler we have danced this dance before....now for the last time....The Spiritualist National Union and Spiritualist Christian Union do not charge ( except for the collection plate which in common with other churches you are free to add to or not )

I would argue that giving evidence of survival IS grief counselling in the real sense of the word.

I have no objection to anyone exposing fakes in any walk of life....but please try to remain objective here.

Once again...Spiritualism is a recognised religion.

I agree with you Dabbler that most of those people, particularly anyone who makes a profit off of such things, are likely illegit. I wouldn't personally condone sending money to them for any reason. Even when I was an active Christian, I would not condone it either.

The mind over matter type healing suggests that there is a benefit to be had. However, it would work to an individual's disadvantage if they had to make a donation to satisfy their emotional health.

I also imagine placebo effect is very limited in its scope of helping physical ailments. If I had to hypothesize, I would say that it is limited to physical conditions that are linked to one's emotional health.

No i will not be open minded to any practice that creates a pool for thieves to operate. How can you explain how a one time Popular entertainment turned into a spiritual practice? I can tell you, the Hacks the Fox sisters duped some Gullible idiots into thinking they where contacting dead people. What did the dead people say? Give the fox sisters money. Here's some info for you, there are performers who are more skilled at the craft then mediums.. So are you clear on my position..?

I think it's clear that you have a 'mission' to 'expose' who or what you consider fakes.....let me be clear...I have no objection to you or anyone else doing that....just don't 'lump' everyone into the same category.

Then it is their burden of proof, if the S.L.U.G.S. visit your church and they have nothing to hide then kudos to them.

They will be sure of a warm welcome ( whoever they are ) lol

They are in response to the Thousands of cases brought to police stations in regards to elderly woman (widows) that are bilked by spiritualist(private practices) but under stand, and this is something you can do for your church, be on the look out for "members" or "Clergy" that seek to draw people out to private sessions. If their is a less then sensational practice in your church, they will make promises far beyond the churches accepted beliefs to lure out Marks to exploit, common even in major religions, look at the Johnny Alamo in the States right now.

There is a cult that operates a "faciltiy" here in Florida that practices extreme isolation as a treatment for medical and mental issues.

There are court cases and investigations into this cult into their practicing of this isolation which has resulted in deaths.

I don't want to risk naming this cult/religion due to the rules of posting on the Rave. What I think is a dangerous cult may actually be a member's religion...

If I remember correctly....

famed Escapist, Harry Houdini, began crusading AGAINST false mediums in the early 1900s... revealing their tricks and informing the public of such crooked sharlatans.

From what I have seen and read a lot of it is to do with brain washing people into believing. A lot of cults tend to have weak minded people who need that sense of belonging. These sort of Cults usually end up bad.

If you look up the definition of the word "cult" it pretty much describes "any" religion.

Well I would think if there is a mass following then it would be a cult in some form. Doesnt matter what they practice or preach.

Yes, Houdini did organize to expose the practices of spiritualism in the 1800s. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle being one of the most popular followers of the spiritualist movement.

As fitting as it seems Wicked (religions having cult tones) it is important to follow the degrees, Cults depend on such general statements. Using such statements to counter the flak from out siders.

Margret Thaler Singer, makes a defining observation as to what separates Cults from organized religion. Please keep in mind that just as all religions are not cults, all cults are not religious, there are diet cults, health cults, financial cults, and survival/political cults.


Not all cults have Compounds.

A group pathology raised by one or more core members is a indicator that it is a cult. Sometimes break away sects from churches (this serves to short cut the recruiting.) become cults. Johnny Alamo a current popular face in the press, and Alleged Phedaphile.

Deceptive and Indirect Techniques of Persuasion and Control a term from Dr. Margret

This is the key separating factor from established religion, and cults.

John Edwards is a very good example of a medium that has a cult following that is not a religion as are any of the other celebrity mediums. If you read the fine print on any of the mediums ads or agreements they ALL say for entertainment purposes only. Go to any astrology site and it will say the same thing. When it comes to cults one has to tread lightly because one person's cult may be an others religion. In many cases it's not the religion that makes it a cult but the way the leaders run it. Any religion can be twisted into a cult. The one thing that most cult religions have in common is that they require their members to break off all ties with everyone they knew before outside the religion including their family unless their family becomes part of the religion also. They use isolation to maintain control over the person. They also tend to ban anything that can bring in an outside influence like TV, Radio, movies, books, magazines and mail. Just because money is involved doesn't automatically mean it's a cult. EVERY religion needs money to survive. Without money you can't have a place to meet, print books, pamphlets, news letters or have any kind of functions. The leader of a religion, that religion is usually his entire life and usually has no other means of support. For a knowledgeable leader it almost has to be that way too. It would be difficult at best to be a good religious leader if you worked a full time job on top of religious duties.

Oh something I forgot there is also a difference between a spiritualist religion and a person that calls him self a "spiritualist", meaning that that person claims to be able to speak with the dead. I think that may be what you guys are getting hung up on.

Thank you Wolvie, very clearly stated. Cults are likely to turn members into collectors, some even have landscaping businesses. Manipulation of established religion plays a vital role in many cults.

And how many people flock to Uri Gellers Show, Yea he may not be a cult leader, but he sure is a con artist with a magicians talent, yet those that claim to have mystic powers are bound to slip-up (something that any stage magician knows. Even Cris Angle shows his "secrets" to the audience eventually.

Yes and Cris Angel also says he performs illusions and stunts he makes no claims of supernatural abilities like some do.

When Houdini revealed the "mind reading trick" to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sir A. Actually became convinced Houdini was a Medium, A high powered medium, stating that he had received a better reading then any medium had ever gave him. Prior to that S.A>C.D. wifes friend a so called medium, attempted a reading on Houdini, She started with an automatic writing, drawing a cross, then said she drew that to asure that Houdini knew it was her (his mom) the whole thing was that Houdinis' mom was Jewish, not obvious to anyone that knew Houdini
(he used his performance name, instead of Weiss.. I have a great post to put up next regarding Cris Angel.

I remember that, that was great Cris really put that guy in his place I laughed so hard my sides hurt.

in some cults, they seperate husband and wife, so they can break the wife first then the woman can convince the man. They do this some times when their is child molestation happening, or polyagamy.

Like Miss Jackson once said "It's all about control"

I agree with Wolvie. It is about control. I think a cult following in the terms of you keep track of what someone is doing because they interest you isnt deceptive but it could be dangerous at times. Say like an actor who has a mass fan club. Sometimes we call this a cult following I dont think this is the right term to use but it is used. Sometimes these turn nasty when you get a crazed fan.

The actual cult were someone puts themselves up as a leader and they make people do things that normal people wouldnt do is deceptive and very dangerous.

What about some of these "religions" whom are recognized in some countries, and are grated the tax benefits, and are not in other countries.

I know of one which is recognized in most countries as a religion, but in Germany and a few other countries it is not. ( I tend to agree that Germany is right on this one) But, there again, who is to say what is a religion or not? The government? The moral majority? If some bonehead wishes to give all their worldly possesions, give up friends and family, and live a life of hard labor, and substandard living, who am I to say they cannot. Deceptive or not, some people in this world are just dishonest, they will prey on the feebleminded, and the ones who just wish to belong somewhere. Sad as it is, it is a part of life, there is good and there is evil. You just hope you're able to differenciate between the two.

Mrs Weiland makes a great point in her post. Some cult leaders (David Koresh as an example) was the only one allowed to sleep with the woman. This served two purposes one to create an environment where the woman (compete) for his attentions, and two to see how devoted the peons.. err members where..

To be alert for friends and family that may be obsessed with new group affiliation is a good practice, to be paranoid is not necessary. Once we gain an applicable frame of reference to what cults use to appeal to would be members, and the temptations used by mediums to entice clients to further their interaction, we can move on to healthy social functions, functions that enrich us, as well as provide an atmosphere to build already existing relationships.

Just like religion dabbler there is no smoke with out a fire …..
There has to be a truth … just cant google it right now lol

The truth is that the only application for such things considered to be mystic is entertainment.

i believe that any activity that can be done in a group can also be done in a solitary fashion as well,there will always be the disbelievers and believers as well,as i say you can't walk a dead horse to a water troff.

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