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I suppose I should begin with defineing at least what I think a rational mind is.....

A rational mind is a mind that questions everything and looks for the awnser that fit's most closely to the reality of the situation....

Now in this reality it seems that people are so drowned in the tide of information that they would rather swallow anything that is handed to them or fabricate a more pleaseing reality and try to make the world fit within it....

I would like some thoughts on solutions to this as well as what might have caused the shift and slide away from rationality in the first place.....

The rational mind is what makes a person sane. Now death to a rational mind is for someone who has lost all base to reality. This statement says that a person has lost or just gave his mind up for the sole purpose that life is to dark and disfunctional it made it easier to live........

I suppose it could be interpreted that way but it actually has more meat to it than just that....

'cause the lost of rationality is very seldom a total break from reality.....

It seems to come in steps of slow comprimises that eventually become completely non-functional near the end....

the choices seem to be making life easyer but in the end breaking with reality makes life unliveable or meaningless...

Aaah but is anyone actually sane to begin with? Define sane? A rational mind? Is that like rational thinking? Sounds like a rhetorical question.

well by my definition sanity isn't required to be rational...

all one needs is to be in touch with reality....

I guess I'll drop a quote from who know's where to describe it.....

"In an insane world, in an insane time, the only sane responce is insanity"

Thats actually a really good wuote. Good thread as well.

well the truth to that is that the death of a rational mind is the loss of sanity. after all rationality is the ablity to think in sane circles in life that or squares if you might have you.

but to lose rationality you lose the sanity because hand in hand they are the same.

I disagree. Rationality and sanity are discrete - they are not part and parcel.

Extreme example:

Organized serial killer. Extremely rational in methodology, in actions, can and DOES have rational (to him or her, if to no one else) reasoning behind his or her actions, and can rationalize situations and responses to a high degree.

Sane? No. Not bloody likely.

They are in touch with their reality - not necessarily the reality shared by others, but they are in touch with their reality.

So, by the definition we are using for this supposition provided by Mordes, the organized serial killer would not be sane, simply rational.

"Rational," as applied to thought, is having its source in or being guided by the intellect (distinguished from experience or emotion); "a rational analysis."

Rational thought is the ability to reason from a supposition to a conclusion, or a problem to a solution (or at least make the bloody attempt).

The death of rational thought ... I think, then, that this would be when people no longer think completely through an issue or question (or even try). THey simply skim the surface or first thought and say, "This is it."

It could also be the refusal or inability to argue an idea or question from more than one side, ireespective of personal conclusions, in order to understand the issue more completely.

I may have more thoughts on this issue later.

rationality...... damn wish I had more time for this one.....
too bad i'm on the clock
but if this one survives I will post more after thought

Well I was alwayz brought up
"Educate yourself"
What I mean is never jus swallow everythin am told but then again I was lucky I suppose

Ahh a rational mind.... determined by social pressures and social conditioning...

Not a very rational way of training the mind now is it?

Shamans always start with the pretence that all minds are mad and all over the place and not at all rational. As soon as we understand that is the way the mind works,life gets easier. What is real? As soon as you ask these questions you are conforming to the fact that reality exists. And we only have a 'rational' mind
because we created it, or was
indoctrinated to thinking we need one, to try and co-exist and survive in this 'reality' of a world that everyone is convincing themselves is real and is what people
want! People of wisdom learn to change their level of consciousness way out of the boundaries of reality,rational minds and time. Their lives are 'experiential' and receive their communication and
knowledge direct from 'the source'. In a nutshell, these people know things that cannot be told. They create their own truths and do not collude or engage
with any so-called realities. We have
become an 'information based' society and the worse thing is we have started believing all the millions of snippets of information we are getting, without trying
to understand their source or truth or connectedness.

I think it's true that out minds can control many things about us. and rationality is essential to life. I just wanted to voice here for a moment i dont know if someone else said this and whatever blah.
I get so sick of people out there thinking that rationality means you believe in no paranormal things, no spirituality, that to be rational is to beleive in science alone. That old saying just used to grate at me "There has to be a rational explanation to this" and every time someone was saying that they meant it couldn't be just there, that something couldn't just be happening, there had to be reasons for it, scientific reasons, proof. It's like saying there is rational proof of karma, gods, existance, life elsewhere. Sometimes the search for "rational" proof demeans and takes away from what "IS"
I love your idea of rational minds, Of just standing back and looking at the whole picture. Okay I just wanted to say that it's been somethng that's bothered me forevet.

meh grr... *forever

Morrigon sorta hit the nail on the head as to why I started this forum at all....

It isn't rational to just not accept information that flows contrary to ones beliefs or ones past experience one has to investigate it....

But I notice is that people rather than looking for some explanation or trying to get at the root of it, they look for someone else to tell them how it is.....

and that is a dangerous way to be

Thank you I completely agree with you. It's always better to find things out for yourself. It's that fear of being wrong, hurt, on and on. But that's part of life, there are no real answers but that's fine because we are still alive and hurray!

rationality is a great thing......but there are some times in life that a little bit of faith could be a useful thing....but then again Mordes.....how many times over the years have we had this very same topic over a good old cuppa jo
the only time it bothers me is when people take faith too far and totally throw out rationality....they both have their place in the world......but neither is entirely correct without a bit of the other.

heh WRONG daermon... they arn't mutally exclusive... one can be rational and belive in things....

it just means that you have a reason to belive ;)

Or at least, More of a reason And people won't call you crazy. hooray

make everyone stop thinking!!!!!!

THAT
Is productive...
Damn it's hard to put sarcasm into words when you're online hehehe.
I think the problem is too many people have "stopped thinking" at least for themselves. There's no shame in deciding what you want to do for yourself, even if everyone else isn't doing it. It's like what George Carlin said, "Ever take the time, start a path....go ahead...it's a little hard you have to hold the grass down yourself at first..."
tee hee

hehehe I thought I was saying the shouldn't be mutually exclusive......
but I was rambling so who knows.

O.o rambling is dangerous hehehee. No rambling is fun...

carlin is my hero....

and usually italics or putting tags works....

but yah I have no problem with most anyone whom can show me a line of reasoning....

It's when the line stops that it get's scarey.....

And even supposedly rational people miss the boat on this frequently by off hand dismissing.... which is irrational.....

hahah okay I'll remember that.
Yes George Carlin is amazing. I love that quote.
People can be so backwards. Notice that some very 'rational people' are always afriad because they will try to explain something in a rational, scientific manner, and can't do it. hehehe.

I think the rational mind is harder to define than that, and many would argue that we dont actually have a 'mind' and that teh spirit exists within a body...

Enough digressing. I think that the 'mind' as you defined can been seen as a computer, like in Cognitive Psychology, where information is processed and stored selectively. However, with the amount of information that gets constantly thrust at us in society, even from things as small as advertisements.

I think that in terms of 'rational' thought, we get bombarded with too much trivia to have time to contemplate on the bigger image. I think this often (or at least in me) makes me worry that I ahve not secured concrete beliefs in areas such as religion, because I am too busy trying to write this presentation (or not because Ive sneeked onto VR!) and htis can result in people believing what they are told, expecially by elders, as they are too afraid to question it.

Im fidning it hard to explain what I mean. I shall get back to you...

A rational mind would fit situations, data, dialogue, or any other sort of information into puzzle pieces. Each pieces then fits together ( like a tessellation ) to create the greater image. When that picture is established, the "rational mind" has resolved the problem. There is no need to be spoon fed the information and then regurgitate it to anyone's liking simply because that rational mind has found its own means to discover answers.

well I can agree with echo that my definition sounds like a computer if computers are capable of laughing and feeling and of initiating actions of their own accord.

I also agree that people are being bombarded with so much information that it makes any thinking dificult to rise above the cacophony of background static.

I guess it comes down to a definition I once heard about what a human being is.....

"A human being is a creature whom rather than reacting to stimulii instead acts on the stimulii... "

meaning that the actions no mater how sudden had some thought behind them. like a human may be forced into a position but the there remains a choice of how to react to the situation....

I think my major concern in this is that I see many grey souless people living their lives in the same grey meaningless fashion as their ancestors and never quesioning the fabric of it all....

heh wow did I drift off topic....

I suppose that it comes down to this....

a human questions and seeks awnsers if they cease questioning and looking for awnsers they arn't very human even if they happen to share the same form

My god this is going on forever. It's true that far to many people just go on living in the easy path that has been traveled too many times. Thinking that following patterns IS rational. grr...frustrating.

Agree'd Morrigon

after reading this thread ...I know where my rational mind has gone...up my ar.....awww look a birdie....

please forgive me i am tired and silly lol

hahah get some sleep, you're creeping me out hahaha no I'm kidding again..You laugh? haha Okay I'm done.

thinking....ah yes now we are at the crux of the issue.....thinking seems to be lacking...why think for yourself when you can parrot the prior responses of others?
Mordes...is that a bit closer to your point?

Seems like it...hmm.

yup and that's more or less why I'm being difficult about it ;)

*Gasp* You? Difficult? nooo. heheh

difficult is his way of getting others to think around an issue till they come up with the answer instead of giving it to them....
took a few years of living with the boy and not killing him to work that out

yup and now you go and make it easy for others...

bastard...

The length of this thread defies rationality to begin with!!! AAAAH

you wanna know about length...i'll tell you about length little girl....the lengh of the hundred miles I walked barefoot in the snow uphill both ways to get ..........where was I going with this story?
now theres some rationality for you
>;P

I suppose I should ask for this to be rip'ed or something....

as I think this has run it's course....

I'll think up something else for later.....

Nope wait, let me parrot the prior response of another...

"a human questions and seeks awnsers if they cease questioning and looking for awnsers they arn't very human even if they happen to share the same form"

So is this what life has become iwth the invent of computers and robots, and internet? Why should people go out and learn and experience new things when they can just look it up and see how many others have and listen to their reviews and views on tpoics, then make up their own mind based upon someone else instead of using their own mind and body to think and feel ..

Excuse the type-o's too lazy tonight to spell check LOL

but the point being, is that too many people copy and rely upon others thoughts and opinnions of things and they just follow suit, instead of being individuals and thinking and doing for themselves, even though they SAY they are a person in their own mind ...

'xactly dami....

the point being is that we've begun to strip the best qualities from the human race....

to strip the humanity out of the human....

and this is what scares me... not that the human race will become extinct in a blast of cleverness gone awry....

but that there are no humans left now....