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lavisbre
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06:31:52 Nov 19 2008
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Some of you might be used to cons or freaks as seen by Dabblers post, I would like to know if she is fake?
Sally Morgan.......
Has anyone watched her?

Shes way good.
link




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dabbler
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06:52:02 Nov 19 2008
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She is a steady act, she should go after James Randis' money.

She does claim to talk to dead people you will never present any thing to convince me.



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dabbler
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07:00:15 Nov 19 2008
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She has the craft down, a talented cold reader, asking question, posed as statements. No dead people!



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dabbler
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07:18:23 Nov 19 2008
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I have a question, how many people have been on a camping trip with an uncle? Is that uncle still alive? Did that uncle give you a nick name?



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nobodysfallenangel
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14:28:33 Nov 19 2008
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Just like John Edwards or whatever. He is a fake, and can not prove to me any further that he is a psychic, or a meduim, or even a damn God.

She is just another wannabe, and taps into her supposed powers to lead people on, and take their money!



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Darkfairie
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17:02:31 Nov 19 2008
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Im sorry If you claim to be a psychic to the stars, how hard wouold it be to gather your information from people beforehand to be able to "dazzle" them with the unknown. seriously? I would like to see someone truly take a random person, one they have never seen nor spoken too and do that. but very few do, those that want to make money only go for the big name people that they can get all kinds of information from. I just dont buy. sorry



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lavisbre
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17:21:27 Nov 19 2008
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I think she is rather good entertainment, if you watch her clips on the link I provided, you will see where she goes head to head with someone who used the technique dabbler has show so many fakes to use on cold readings.



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ImageMaker
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18:09:05 Nov 19 2008
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I would like to meet a real phsycic, but have not to date, though I've looked. It seems like there's a lot of fakes, which makes it hard to believe anyone who claims to have special abilities.

Though I do believe in empathic abilities, because I've expieranced some of them myself especially with people I'm close to. However I wonder if that's really just being attuned to someone's energy.



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Beastt17
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20:00:58 Nov 19 2008
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She appears to be a very skilled cold reader with some obvious interest in psychology. I've noted that she's rather careful about the people she chooses for her readings. That way she avoids skeptics who might wish to test her. I'd really love to see her presented with a dozen people with maybe two or three skeptics worked in and have to do readings on all of them. The skeptics, of course, should be allowed to answer dishonestly part of the time because I've noticed that Sally and other cold-readers don't tell people anything. They ask them questions. The more often the answer is "yes", the more they appear to be psychic.

Here are a few tricks that seem to be very beneficial to the illusion they create. They seem to have done some study regarding the most popular names in various parts of the world where they do their "readings". This can be further broken down into the most popular names for females, the most popular names for males and the most popular names for males and females through various generations. They rarely just tell the person the name of the "spirit" they claim to have contacted. Instead they start with a letter or even two or three letters, usually the most common letters for the starting of first names in the area where they're working. If the person says "no", they switch to another letter. If the answer is "yes", then they might give a whole name but it's usually a short list of two or three of the most popular names in that area, for that generation and gender, starting with the letter confirmed by the "victim".

Imagine meeting someone at a party and having such a conversation;

You: "Hello! I'm sorry, I didn't get your name."

Them: "Well, it starts with an 'S' or an 'M', perhaps an 'N'."

You: "Oh... well... is it uhm... 'Steve'?"

Them: "No, it isn't Steve."

You: "What about uhm... 'Mark' or 'Michael'?"

Them: "Yes!, Yes! ...well, 'Mike', actually. My parents never went for the formal names."

You: "Well then, how do you do, Mike? Are you here on business?"

Them: "Well, sort of; kind of a business holiday."

You: "If you don't mind me asking, what kind of work do you do?"

Them: "Well, I work with my hands, or some kind of physical labor."

You: "So you're... a construction worker or some kind of a baker, perhaps?"

Them: "No, neither of those. It has to do with numbers."

---

Sorry, but that's just not how people converse. And since a spirit is supposed to be a dead person, there is no reason to believe that spirits (were they to exist), would converse that way either. Yet that's what we see these proclaimed psychics doing all of the time.

There's a name for what they do. Actually, it's a game and people can become quite skilled at it. It's called, "20 Questions".

I've also noted that Sally is rather good at recognizing countries of origin for some of her people. It helps them to go along with the whole psychic schtick if she appears to know where they're from before even knowing their name. Some are more difficult to spot than others. People of Jewish decent, Polish decent, German heritage are among some of the easier ones to spot. Accents and dialects giver her additional clues. She also picks up on the way they're dressed. People in rural areas are often less driven by the latest fashions than people from larger cities. You can also tell a certain amount about a person's financial status based on the way they dress and from there, you can eliminate unlikely jobs.

She's good at what she does but she's also very careful about those whom she picks for her readings. It just wouldn't do to accidentally pick a skeptic who was there to test her. I'd love to see a relatively unknown and admitted cold reader attend one of her performances and get picked by her for a reading. It would likely be quite entertaining.



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lilblackrose2010
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20:37:28 Nov 19 2008
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Is Silyvia Browne real or a fake physic?



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dabbler
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20:45:45 Nov 19 2008
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Sylvia Browne is a Confidence artist. I have already posted here dubious wrongs.



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dabbler
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20:48:33 Nov 19 2008
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I'll even save you the trouble of researching for a counter point, note this is painful to listen to, and do not watch the screen while you listen.



Note this is the response to the above video.



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dabbler
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20:53:08 Nov 19 2008
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Even Randi can admit when he is impressed by a performer.

See this was the Star Psychic from time ago.. The new Bar level is Sally, once Sally is Spread out, and can no longer contain her "research base" she will flicker, and falter more. Eventually the triviality of her reading will be noted. Sylvia missed a big one, and still there she is on Montel.. Let Go of the Pretense.. it is that simple..


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leoderloewe14
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21:23:38 Nov 19 2008
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She's your basic John Edwards-style entertainment psychic. Her latest, she's starting her own religious ministry...
So, now she's no longer just "someone that speaks to the dead", she "ministers" to them.

Leo



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dabbler
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21:33:17 Nov 19 2008
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What about just sitting down with grieving people and asking them, Who Died? Then helping the person probe their own memories to find consoladation.. why all the trivial scattered BS?

Or would that just be "boring", non-sensational, Pap? Why entertain people with pretense that a persons deceased loved one is playing carades on the other side..?

Why all the allusion to religion, yet she "Doesn't want to be linked to any religious overtones"..

Get A clue, it should not be too hard, she claims to be psychic.

Thankfully the more exposer she gets the lousier she will appear, her one pursuit is her uliment demise, sad she could have been a good Mentalist..



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dabbler
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21:35:48 Nov 19 2008
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http://stephenlaw.blogspot.com/2008/06/sally-morgan-more-bullshit.html



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dabbler
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00:59:52 Nov 20 2008
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How about another challenge( She really shines for challenges right) so lets
Have her do a reading while observed by an MRI.



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ImageMaker
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01:06:41 Nov 20 2008
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Now that would be cool. Well it would be if she's not a fake. I've heard that there's a government funded facility in Texas that does just that, along with the study of other physcic and paranormal claims.

I'd like to be a fly on the wall in there.

However I think that if she was real she'd probably be much more low key or in a physc unit somewhere.



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dabbler
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01:50:47 Nov 20 2008
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Low key? She is a media whore..



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lavisbre
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05:20:53 Nov 20 2008
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this one is good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAI-pdyS8IU


she beat dabblers idear on cold reading ;-)



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dabbler
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05:27:10 Nov 20 2008
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If you embedd that it would be helpful.



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lavisbre
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05:30:18 Nov 20 2008
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sorry dude ... lol



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dabbler
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05:31:47 Nov 20 2008
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So let us review what we do agree on.. You first Lav.



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Beastt17
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10:44:05 Nov 20 2008
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Re: "she beat dabblers idear on cold reading ;-)"

Did you actually watch the video... I mean REALLY WATCH?

There are so many things wrong with that situation that only if you watch very casually can you be fooled. Firstly, did you look at the ear muffs they put on Sally? That's all they were -- ear muffs. Have you ever worn ear muffs? They're designed to keep your ears warm, not to block out sounds. If they blocked out sounds, they wouldn't be safe to wear around traffic, subway trains, etc. At the very least they should have been noise-canceling headphones but for any real degree of credibility, Sally should have been taken far away, into a nearby building where she could neither see or hear what was going on. And there were lots of nearby buildings. Why do you suppose they didn't do that?

They tell us that Matthew and Sally will each get 3-minutes to question Anna. Two people, times 3-minutes each, is 6-minutes. The entire video is only 3:20 long. Of course that in itself, doesn't mean Sally didn't still get 9-questions right while Matthew got only two. What it does mean, since Matthew begins at 0:59 into the video and ends at 2:00, while Sally starts at 2:05 and ends at 2:46; is that all of the times Sally was wrong were obviously cut from the video. So the video leaves the viewer thinking she just nailed every single response when that clearly isn't what happened.

And also note the demeanor of Anna. She actually stops to taunt Matthew by telling him to calm down and telling him he's sweating. He points out that he's under a lot of pressure and says it's the atmosphere. Anna responds by saying "there's no sun". He never said anything about the sun, yet she makes her unrelated comment in a disrespectful manner. It's fairly obvious if you watch the video that Anna is anything but neutral. One might suggest that she's just irritated by how many times Matthew is wrong because the video leaves the impression that Sally nailed every single question she asked. Obviously, since we only see 41-seconds of Sally's 3-minutes, this isn't the case. So we have Sally wearing a device which couldn't possibly keep her from hearing what goes on with Matthew and Anna who is clearly biased in Sally's favor.

On to the questions:

Matthew: You're from an Eastern-block country.
(TRUE)

Matthew: You've come here to study.
(No Response from Anna) Was he right or wrong?

Matthew: Is it a career move that brought you here?
(No Response from Anna) Yet we learn later from the interaction with Sally that it is a career trip. That's called "cheating".

Matthew: You've come alone or with family?
(That's two questions 1-Alone, 2-With family.)
So he's right with the first question and wrong with the second. She ignores that he's right and only buzzes him for being wrong.)

Matthew: No, the family is back at home.
(Anna nods but doesn't give him credit for being right. The family could be anywhere, not just at home.)

Matthew: Is it your sister that's at home... brother and sister?
(WRONG)

Matthew: It's family though, siblings?
(How stupid is that? She's already buzzed him wrong when he asked if it was a sister, then doesn't tell him he's right when he says "brother and sister". Is there another kind of sibling? Doesn't brother and sister pretty much cover it? So he's wrong again for asking the same question she just told him was wrong.) -- Matthew dumb, Sally (as we see later), very smart.
(WRONG)

Matthew: Fashion is one of your interests?
(TRUE) Fairly obvious if you look at what she's wearing. How many people just run around dressed like that?

Matthew: Is this a fashion school you're going to?
(WRONG)

Matthew: You're working as a designer then?
(WRONG)

Matthew: It is something to do with design?
(WRONG) Ahem, fashion has nothing to do with design? Since when?

-- This is where Anna is allowed to taunt Matthew about sweating.

Matthew: So your job is based on a catwalk?
(WRONG) And yet he knows she's into fashion and she just said it has nothing to do with design. So he's been mislead.

Matthew: It's not like a press thing? You're not involved with the press?
(We'll have to assume that these, like the others, are questions rather than statements. If they're statements, then he's right. But I'll go along with the assumption that they were questions.
(WRONG)

Matthew: I have no idea what the job is.

================

Sally: Well, you're not English.
(TRUE) Of course, with Anna's accent, who would think for a moment she was English? She might as well have said, "Well, you're not a man" and been credited for being right.

Sally: I think you're Polish.
(TRUE) Again, fairly obvious. So Sally is being smart here. She's getting marked correct twice for something Matthew only used once with his guess about an Eastern-block country. Sally has a pretty good indication that Anna is Polish (she looks Polish), but doesn't jump right to that. First she gets another question right by saying she's not English. That's a bit like looking at a black man and saying, "You're not Caucasian", then grabbing another point by saying "You're of African descent". She gets two for one.

Sally: I think you're in the fashion industry.
(TRUE) With nothing but ear-muffs to block Sally's hearing, how could she not have over-heard this?

Sally: I think you're a budding actress.
(TRUE) Point for Sally.


Sally: I can see France in your life as well.
(TRUE) Point for Sally.

Sally: Three days ago there was talk of a new agent.
(TRUE) This is probably the hardest to explain. A strong point for Sally's side.

Sally: I think you're concerned about a female back home.
(TRUE) But again, ear-muffs should have allowed Sally to over-hear everything from Matthew's questions. Matthew ruled out sisters and brothers. The only thing left was a mother or father.

Sally: I think it's a woman that's older than you.
(TRUE) But again, having nothing but ear-muffs on her ears, Matthew has already ruled out sisters so a mother is the most likely guess. Mother's tend to be older than their daughters. But Sally is smart again in not nailing herself down to Anna's mother when she doesn't have to.

Sally: Wondering if it was your mom or maybe an older sister.
(TRUE) Well, she's already established that it's an older women. If she did overhear Matthew's questions and Anna's answers (as she almost had to), then this is very obvious.

I have to admit that the first time I watched this clip I raised an eyebrow. But when I went back and watched... REALLY WATCHED, making note of each question and each answer, all of these little cheats, obvious misrepresentations, biases on Anna's part and dishonest likelihoods became quite obvious. Most people will never do that. So they'll watch the video and walk away incredibly impressed and not noticing that Anna ignored several of Matthew's questions, showed a very obvious bias in favor of Sally and marked him wrong when he asked two questions, one of which was right. They'll likely simply take the narrator's word for it that Sally can't hear or see what happens with Matthew.

This kind of manipulation of created evidence illustrates the reason that proper methodology be implemented and followed whenever any study is performed. Any person being "read" should be fairly neutral to the subjects attempting to find out about them. No competing "reader" should ever be allowed anywhere near the other involved people while they're attempting to read the subjects. A purely unbiased individual should be making the decision as to whether or not the answers given are correct, once they understand the reasoning presented by the person being "read".

When you allow this kind of bias, manipulation and out-right cheating into a contest, it becomes a rigged performance with an agenda, rather than a hunt for valid evidence.


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dabbler
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20:52:20 Nov 20 2008
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Quite plainly Anne is from a casting agent, she was hand picked by the producers. Man I am such a psychic.. did you just see that Lav.. I so amaze myself..



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lavisbre
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17:27:01 Nov 21 2008
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You should go on stage man lol



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lavisbre
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17:32:55 Nov 21 2008
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Beast man … she had ear phones on playing music under the ear muffs … and blind folded . yet she did better than a con man who thinks like dabbler and you lol



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dabbler
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19:27:37 Nov 21 2008
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She did better doing the same thing, she is another trivialist.

Are you convinced, I don't ask if you believe, I ask if you are convinced
she is communicating with spirits. I also once again ask the question you so easily avoid..

you have read my questions right.

See just like the psychics/spiritualist you adore, they ignore any questions they know will compromise their illusion, You must want to say.. "Anything is possible." Well those anythings that are possible is the Possibility that you, and her fans are being Hood Winked.. Entertainment you say? Yea until someone pays in emotional agony, like Sylvia Browne did, James Vhaun Pragg, Carr, All Victimizing people, Oh you simple laugh at that though..

I should go on stage.. There is no challenge anymore in duping the new batch of TV fuel Idiots.. There are already plenty of entertainers.. legit Over the table entertainers..

Consider aswering my question, or at least acknowledge that you read them, and considered them.. What are you afraid of?

Notice how I used a page from your play book?



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Beastt17
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10:19:24 Nov 22 2008
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Re: "she had ear phones on playing music under the ear muffs … and blind folded . yet she did better than a con man who thinks like dabbler and you lol"

She had earphones on and maybe they were playing music. Maybe they were piping in every word being said. I'd not normally be so skeptical of a setup except that the whole situation is so obviously rigged in so many other ways. Notice that when its Sally's turn, they have Matthew wearing ear-muffs and blindfolded. What's that all about? He's already had his turn. What is it they're keeping him from hearing and seeing?

What about the questions Matthew asks that Anna ignores? She just sits there waiting until he gets one wrong, then finally hits the buzzer. How about when he says, "You've come alone, right. It's not with the family?" and she looks at him smugly and says "Alone" and buzzes him wrong? What about the other 2-minutes and 19-seconds of Sally's time when she's obviously getting things wrong and yet we're only shown when she gets things right? There's simply nothing about any of the situation that displays any degree of honesty.

One might think that if Sally were a true psychic, she'd have no need to have the demonstration rigged in her favor. Obviously, it is rigged in her favor and on several counts. I have to conclude that she's provided no evidence of any psychic ability and has only demonstrated her willingness to be dishonest about representing her proclaimed ability.


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furcifer
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19:35:40 Nov 22 2008
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I absolutely do think she is a fake psychic. She riding her fifteen minutes of fame and probably making a boat-load of cash in the process. She's not doing anything that I haven't observed any barber or hairdresser do everyday. Likely, this is where she may have honed her inter-personal skills that have made her so popular.



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dabbler
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22:04:12 Nov 22 2008
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Consider answering a few questions presented Lav.

That whole selective answering is just as present in belivers as it is in claimed psychics, we do appear to agree that she has a talent( however aided it is) The point of difference is that you appear to accept her claim that
She communicates with dead people.

Then would you agree that she should be much more intimate then a cold/hot reader?

Just look throughthe threads and locate those questions, acknowledging them will do.. You don't even have to answer them.



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by TheRat on Oct 03 2010  •

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